Forum tone - let's make it more positive

Arghus

galwaycyclist wrote: »

Exactly - which is why the language used by the user Biko is disturbing and raises serious questions.



There is perceived to be a problem with this forum and has been for a long time. This thread is the latest attempt to address the situation.

It is reasonable in the circumstances to look for the source of the issue. It may be that the majority of the attendance at a beers night were there in good faith and had no agenda. But if the moderators start treating their new beer buddies as "the forum" then there is still a very very obvious problem.

Disturbing language? Good faith, bad faith? Agendas?

Lighten up man!

People socialised and got drunk: that's about all I'd read into it.

galwaycyclist

Arghus wrote: »

Disturbing language? Good faith, bad faith? Agendas?

Lighten up man!

People socialised and got drunk: that's about all I'd read into it.

Nope not buying it. Why is a moderator indicating that to avoid public mistreatment other posters need to participate?

Arghus

galwaycyclist wrote: »

Nope not buying it. Why is a moderator indicating that to avoid public mistreatment other posters need to participate?

That's not what he was saying! I'm amazed how you could take that from what he said.

Gremlinertia

I have yet to attend a board's beer, Galway or otherwise and i don't see it as any impediment to my participation on the site.. The us versus them attitude plus unnecessary sniping is what usually puts me off.

galwaycyclist

Arghus wrote: »

That's not what he was saying! I'm amazed how you could take that from what he said.

Here is what was said

biko wrote: »

Specifically about the Beers, this was a great way for the forum to gel. People are much less likely to be dicks to people they have actually met.

Why anyone be a dick to anyone else on a public forum? Unless they knew they would get away with it? Therefore there is a problem with the moderators.

The comment works both ways in case you hadn't noticed. If meeting people reduces the likelihood that someone will act in an abusive manner on the forum then the flip side also applies - people who don't want to be abused should also attend physical meet ups.

Anyone for a beer and ingratiating themselves to schoolyard bully or two? So they can feel "safe" posting on the Galway city forum?

Gremlinertia

People are less likely to be dicks to each other if they've met, it negates the 'keyboard warrior' syndrome when you have a face to put to the name..

galwaycyclist

Gremlinertia wrote: »

People are less likely to be dicks to each other if they've met, it negates the 'keyboard warrior' syndrome when you have a face to put to the name..

The purpose of moderators is to negate keyboard warrior syndrome. If they cannot fulfill that purpose then they have no business putting themselves forward as moderators.

Moderators implying that people should attend particular events to avoid being targeted by keyboard warriors suggests that the moderators have become part of the problem.

Gremlinertia

Wow, well that was twisted about somewhat..
Moderators are there to make sure that people don't abuse each other personally for the most part..
A mod did not imply attending beers to avoid being targeted either..

Arghus

galwaycyclist wrote: »

Here is what was said




Why anyone be a dick to anyone else on a public forum? Unless they knew they would get away with it? Therefore there is a problem with the moderators.

The comment works both ways in case you hadn't noticed. If meeting people reduces the likelihood that someone will act in an abusive manner on the forum then the flip side also applies - people who don't want to be abused should also attend physical meet ups.

Anyone for a beer and ingratiating themselves to schoolyard bully or two? So they can feel "safe" posting on the Galway city forum?

I think you are making a few ludicrous jumps in conclusion, by imbuing Biko's words with nonexistant implications - while missing his point.

If you're asking me why anyone would be a dick to anyone else on a public forum, the answer is I don't fully know. There is undeniably a quasi dickish point scoring element to a lot of online debate. I think when it comes to posting online people often feel the need to make their point, often at the expense of those in opposition to what they are saying. Also anoynomity plays a part, along with the relative weightlessness of what a person may say online - in here we could face a certain level of consequences for acting the dick - a ban or a slap on the wrist - but that's really it. Act the prat in real life and things could be a lot harder for you.

Also people find it easier to be more direct, ruder, disrespectful or obnoxious towards people they can only identify as basically text on a website. I don't think Biko was wrong in saying that people tend to be nicer to people they have met in real life, as opposed to those they only know as names and words. Personally, I think that's just reality - rightly or wrongly. That is not to say that you have to personally meet someone to be nice to them, or that you are going to be a paragon of virtue towards them simply by virtue of having gone for a drink - not at all. I certainly don't go out of my way to be a dick towards anyone online, no matter who they are - but I think an online community getting to know each other better and fostering a sense of an actual community is no bad thing. And in Ireland one of the best ways to get people to come together is to go for a drink...

Disclaimer: I have not been to a beers in many years, so I'm not an authority on them. In terms of your suggestion that they are some sort of nefarious plan to build a clique: I think that's nonsense really. I found the few I was at to be welcoming, friendly and relaxed - as well as open to and containing all sorts: Mods, lurkers, the curious, the people with posts in the thousands and some people who'd never even heard of Boards at all - who'd just somehow turned up on the night. The more the merrier seemed to be the attitude. All in the name of a bit of fun; all I had on my mind was getting drunk really. It had nothing to do with schoolyard bullies or any of that crap. Quite frankly, if you're asking me, that's borderline tinfoil hat stuff. Biko is just getting nostalgiac for the livelier times, and who can blame him.

Going back to what I said earlier about the beers being symptomatic of a different time in this forum: Beers weren't the only offline things that happened - there was a book club and a cinema club, just off the top of my head. The forum was busier and there was more of a community feel around here. Beers were an offshoot of this; people who shared something in common wanted to meet up and socialise and drink and be merry. Attendance wasn't mandatory. And whether you did go or didn't go was, I suspect, quickly forgotten. I think the sometimes relatively tiny proportion of users who used to show up was down to how little people could have been arsed going, rather than it being unwelcoming.

Discodog

In the past & in other forums, I have questioned the soapboxing rules. But I have to revise my thoughts when it comes to this forum. People won't post if they know that their opinion will be instantly shot down especially when it's by people who wear their agenda on their sleeve.

I have also criticised some Mods on Boards but never on this forum. The idea that Biko or anyone else is stifling debate is ludicrous. The idea that anyone suggesting a pint is disturbing is ....disturbing. Regarding soapboxing the Mods here are way more tolerant than you will find on most Boards forums.

With contentious issues poster should realise that constantly banging the drum just makes others deaf. Once you know that someone has a clear agenda they can become incapable of even considering an opposing view.

thesandeman

galwaycyclist wrote: »

Anyone for a beer and ingratiating themselves to schoolyard bully or two? So they can feel "safe" posting on the Galway city forum?

Would love to, but there's no bloody place to park these days!!







;-)

Recently in my experience, the best beers in Galway have been those in which were actually other forum's, but held here; After Hours and Gentlemen's Club being the biggest highlights, absolutely.

I haven't been to a Galway beers in .. 5 or 6 years now.

El_Dangeroso

If we can side-step the beers argument for a second..

Maybe if some of the posters that seem deeply passionate about a single topic were to also branch out and participate in some of the more lighthearted or alternative threads then it would help people not be so jaded when they see them posting about their favourite topic. If they don't then if just comes across as nagging and lecturing.

Just a suggestion..

charlie_says

Sound enough bunch here.

I've been known to moan a bit though. To be honest I think most people love Galway and love living here, but we don't get so many love circle in threads about that kind of stuff so it might seem a bit negative at times.

Never been to a beers myself but I've met a few heads with boards accounts.

jjpep

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

If we can side-step the beers argument for a second..

Maybe if some of the posters that seem deeply passionate about a single topic were to also branch out and participate in some of the more lighthearted or alternative threads then it would help people not be so jaded when they see them posting about their favourite topic. If they don't then if just comes across as nagging and lecturing.

Just a suggestion..

Actually I think you've hit a nail on ahead here, but from the opposite side!! Ok that probably makes no sense so let me explain... :-)

I like living in Galway, it's probably been my favourite place that I've lived in. I've lived in five other places for a decent length of time (more than three years). The only major problems I have in living here is traffic /commute related. So the only things I tend to post on this forum about are related to that. I don't tend to post on other topics because I either don't have an interest or have nothing to contribute. And I think that should be okay.

Now you might suggest then that I should just post on the commute forum, or the cycling forum - and I do - but when it's a local issue then this forum seems to be the most logical fit.

whineflu

This thread is very meta and kind of acts as a microcosm of the Galway City forum as a whole. I think many times people decide that what another poster has said needs to be the opposite of what they think. They then restate that poster's argument in an exaggerated way to make it sound crazy and make themselves sound "right".
I don't agree with everything said here but there are nuanced parts of many posts that anyone can agree with or expand on to advance the discussion. If you are of the mindset that there can only be two opinions ... yours and the extreme opposite of yours... then it all starts getting a bit fundamentalist.

jjpep

whineflu wrote: »

This thread is very meta and kind of acts as a microcosm of the Galway City forum as a whole. I think many times people decide that what another poster has said needs to be the opposite of what they think. They then restate that poster's argument in an exaggerated way to make it sound crazy and make themselves sound "right".
I don't agree with everything said here but there are nuanced parts of many posts that anyone can agree with or expand on to advance the discussion. If you are of the mindset that there can only be two opinions ... yours and the extreme opposite of yours... then it all starts getting a bit fundamentalist.

Wouldn't that be true of most online discussion though? Perhaps we're being unnecessarily harsh on this particular forum to expect much different?

Yes, it would be good if people could start to find the parts of a topic that they agree on before exploring the parts they don't, and this is what generally happens in real life discussion. But this is online discussion and for good or bad, it just doesn't seem to happen.

smurf492

Why not just start a thread about whats great about galway and have all the positivity directed into that thread. If someone has a problem with this city then they have the right to comment on it and see what others think without being accused of negativity... As long as posts and posters abide by forum rules then positive or negative feedback shouldn't be an issue. It's called opinion and everyone is allowed to have one...

xtradel

So when's the next beers? Maybe we could hire this and double park it on the grass in Eyre Sq to keep everybody happy.

Mrs OBumble

thesandeman wrote: »

Would love to, but there's no bloody place to park these days!!

Shure'n what has the average hippy got to park anyways!

thesandeman

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Shure'n what has the average hippy got to park anyways!

There isn't even a place to park my ass this week. Roll on Monday.

galwaycyclist

Arghus wrote: »

If you're asking me why anyone would be a dick to anyone else on a public forum, the answer is I don't fully know. There is undeniably a quasi dickish point scoring element to a lot of online debate. I think when it comes to posting online people often feel the need to make their point, often at the expense of those in opposition to what they are saying. Also anoynomity plays a part, along with the relative weightlessness of what a person may say online - in here we could face a certain level of consequences for acting the dick - a ban or a slap on the wrist - but that's really it. Act the prat in real life and things could be a lot harder for you.

So to move things along. The part in bold brings in another issue about the Galway City Forum that I have not come across in other forums.

That is "secret" sanctions against users by the mods.

In other forums if people step out of line they get a public warning from a mod. Everybody can see what the rules are and posters are able to learn from example what will or will not fly on that forum.

What I have discovered on the Galway City forum is secret warnings from mods with no associated post in the forum where the perceived offence was committed. I have also come across "secret" forum bans where users were banned - again without any public indication that this has happened.

It creates an impression of moderators who do not care for transparency.

Furthermore it invites speculation that in the Galway City Forum moderators have different rules for different people.

Which brings us back to "beers" as "codeword" for who knows who and who is "in" and who is "out".

xtradel

galwaycyclist wrote: »

So to move things along. The part in bold brings in another issue about the Galway City Forum that I have not come across in other forums.

That is "secret" sanctions against users by the mods.

In other forums if people step out of line they get a public warning from a mod. Everybody can see what the rules are and posters are able to learn from example what will or will not fly on that forum.

What I have discovered on the Galway City forum is secret warnings from mods with no associated post in the forum where the perceived offence was committed. I have also come across "secret" forum bans where users were banned - again without any public indication that this has happened.

It creates an impression of moderators who do not care for transparency.

Furthermore it invites speculation that in the Galway City Forum moderators have different rules for different people.

Which brings us back to "beers" as "codeword" for who knows who and who is "in" and who is "out".

Is it any of your business who gets a warning/infraction or banned?

galwaycyclist

xtradel wrote: »

Is it any of your business who gets a warning/infraction or banned?

Yes it is a public forum. In other forums all this is kept in the open - the Galway City forum seems to have different rules.

xtradel

galwaycyclist wrote: »

Yes it is a public forum. In other forums all this is kept in the open - the Galway City forum seems to have different rules.

Why not start a thread in Feedback then instead of spreading your negativity in a thread that was started to encourage positivity about the Galway forum.

biko

galwaycyclist, if you have an issue with moderation please feel free to start a thread in feedback or Helpdesk.
Don't use this thread, unless you think moderation is the reason there is negativity in the forum (which could be a possibility of course).

If you have ideas for a nicer forum please do post them.

Galway is second only to Dublin in forum popularity so naturally you get many posters with many opinions.
Many opinions means more disagreements, it's just the way of the world.

dr.bollocko

galwaycyclist wrote: »

So to move things along. The part in bold brings in another issue about the Galway City Forum that I have not come across in other forums.

That is "secret" sanctions against users by the mods.

In other forums if people step out of line they get a public warning from a mod. Everybody can see what the rules are and posters are able to learn from example what will or will not fly on that forum.

What I have discovered on the Galway City forum is secret warnings from mods with no associated post in the forum where the perceived offence was committed. I have also come across "secret" forum bans where users were banned - again without any public indication that this has happened.

It creates an impression of moderators who do not care for transparency.

Furthermore it invites speculation that in the Galway City Forum moderators have different rules for different people.

Which brings us back to "beers" as "codeword" for who knows who and who is "in" and who is "out".

Your assumptions are both unfair and insulting to people who give up their time to keep this train on the tracks. To be honest, you're already creating a me vs. Everyone environment and I know from past experience there is no point in actually engaging beyond pointing out that you're wrong.

Ask not what the forum can do for you, instead complain about the secret beers clique.

dloob

I don't think anybody looking though this thread will have any problem figuring out what the problem is....

_Whimsical_

galwaycyclist wrote: »

So to move things along. The part in bold brings in another issue about the Galway City Forum that I have not come across in other forums.

That is "secret" sanctions against users by the mods.

In other forums if people step out of line they get a public warning from a mod. Everybody can see what the rules are and posters are able to learn from example what will or will not fly on that forum.

What I have discovered on the Galway City forum is secret warnings from mods with no associated post in the forum where the perceived offence was committed. I have also come across "secret" forum bans where users were banned - again without any public indication that this has happened.

It creates an impression of moderators who do not care for transparency.

Furthermore it invites speculation that in the Galway City Forum moderators have different rules for different people.

Which brings us back to "beers" as "codeword" for who knows who and who is "in" and who is "out".

I don't think the moderation is a problem on this forum at all, and I've been told off myself (wrongly of course!:)). We aren't children though, we don't need the bold kids publicly scolded or a headmaster type figure stalking the place ready to pounce in every discussion. Equally, you have to give mods a bit of room to make the occasional mistake and take stuff on the chin if that's the case.

I think we all probably need to be a bit more respectful in our discourse here, sometimes it gets very snarky, even a bit aggressive. Any decent community has to rely mostly on members working together to keep the tone friendly, not on moderators keeping people in line.

Moo Moo Land

It's funny but I believe many forum people are on their best behaviour this week, mainly due to this thread.

Therapy helps!