The Rio Weightlifting Discussion Thread

DylanJM

Not enough activity on strength sports forum to start a thread there so I'm gonna put it here (if it's ok with the mods).

So not long now until the 2016 Olympics and despite all the doping controversy over the last few months I am very excited!

Here's the schedule for the weightlifting:

All times are Rio local time add 4 hours for Irish time!

Saturday, 6th August

19:00 – W48kg A

Sunday, 7th August

10:00 – M56kg B
12:30 – W53kg B
15:30 – W53kg A
19:00 – M56kg A

Monday, 8th August

10:00 – M62kg B
12:30 – W58kg B
15:30 – W58kg A
19:00 – M62kg A

Tuesday, 9th August

10:00 – M69kg B
12:30 – W63kg B
15:30 – W63kg A
19:00 – M69kg A

Wednesday, 10th August

10:00 – M77kg B
12:30 – W69kg B
15:30 – W69kg A
19:00 – M77kg A

Thursday, 11th August

Rest Day

Friday, 12th August

10:00 – M85kg B
12:30 – W75kg B
15:30 – W75kg A
19:00 – M85kg A

Saturday, 13th August

15:30 – M94kg B
19:00 – M94kg A

Sunday, 14th August

19:00 – W+75kg A

Monday, 15th August

15:30 – M105kg B
19:00 – M105kg A

Tuesday, 16th August

15:30 – M+105kg B
19:00 – M+105kg A

DylanJM

Entry List:

http://www.iwf.net/wp-content/uploads/downloads/2016/07/Rio2016_List-of-Athletes-by-Event_20160721_Public.pdf

Training Hall:

Is it wrong that I got a little turned on looking at that training hall

Mr. CooL ICE

Deleted User wrote: »

Is it wrong that I got a little turned on looking at that training hall

I was about to ask the same thing...

So to answer your question; I don't think so

DylanJM

Deleted User wrote: »

Is it wrong that I got a little turned on looking at that training hall

Not at all, perfectly normal reaction!

50 platforms all together.

Hanley

Didn't that finish yesterday?

Mellor

Odds that Clarence posts some training maxes to coincide with the 94's (or -105's)

EmcD123

Can't wait for the 85 A group, hopefully we'll see a new clean and jerk record!!!!

Jimmy Iovine

How is the division for A and B made?

Hanley

Jimmy Iovine wrote: »

How is the division for A and B made?

Nominated totals, I believe.

You have to put in an expected total that must lie within X% of your actual finish (so you couldn't put in a stupid number like 1000kg just to get into the A group).

DylanJM

Hanley wrote: »

Nominated totals, I believe.

You have to put in an expected total that must lie within X% of your actual finish (so you couldn't put in a stupid number like 1000kg just to get into the A group).

Correct. Athletes declare starting weights during the final verification of entries (which happens a couple of days before the first session) and are divided into groups based on the the total of these lifts. Their actual opening weights attempted on the day of the competition must be with 15kg/20kg of the declared lifts for the snatch and C&J respectively.

shakedown

China Power photos: https://www.theguardian.com/sport/gallery/2016/jul/23/chinas-weightlifting-powerhouse-readies-for-rio-olympics-in-pictures

Alf Veedersane

shakedown wrote: »

China Power photos: https://www.theguardian.com/sport/gallery/2016/jul/23/chinas-weightlifting-powerhouse-readies-for-rio-olympics-in-pictures

Lu looks like he was enjoying the massage anyway.

MightyMandarin

Anyone see the reports of Albegov testing positive for 2012 retrospectively? I have to say I never believed in the WADA political conspiracy but if this is true it looks like the retesting of samples is pure politics.

DylanJM

This retesting should have started and finished months ago. I have no idea why the IOC have decided to leave it so late and even expand it to continue over the Rio games. It's just making them and the games look bad.

I do however think these improvements in testing sensitivity will be a good thing for the sport of weightlifting in the long run though. Many of the oral steroids are basically useless now as the detection times are so much longer. For example apparently the detection times for anavar and stanozolol are something like 5 and 12 months now respectively.

MightyMandarin

DylanJM wrote: »

This retesting should have started and finished months ago. I have no idea why the IOC have decided to leave it so late and even expand it to continue over the Rio games. It's just making them and the games look bad.

I do however think these improvements in testing sensitivity will be a good thing for the sport of weightlifting in the long run though. Many of the oral steroids are basically useless now as the detection times are so much longer. For example apparently the detection times for anavar and stanozolol are something like 5 and 12 months now respectively.

Yeah stanozolol is pretty redundant now that the detection time has been doubled from 6mths to 12 with the new tests.

I just think the fact China hasn't had a single lifter get popped in these re-tests is just ridiculous. Maybe they have better drugs and cycling procedures, but it all smells of politics now that new lifters are getting popped every few weeks now. WADA seem to just be looking for dirty lifters from ex-Soviet countries.

What annoys me the most is the complete hypocrisy from the IWF and IOC with regard to banning Russian lifters who had previous doping violations (Kashirina), yet pretty much the entire Kazakh mens team (Rahimov, Ulanov and Zaichikov) all have violations yet are allowed to compete aswell as other big names like Minasyan, Karapetyan, Lasha Talakhadze and the USA's very own Sarah Robles...

The whole episode of retesting samples from 2008 and 2012 just stinks imo.

DylanJM

MightyMandarin wrote: »

What annoys me the most is the complete hypocrisy from the IWF and IOC with regard to banning Russian lifters who had previous doping violations (Kashirina), yet pretty much the entire Kazakh mens team (Rahimov, Ulanov and Zaichikov) all have violations yet are allowed to compete aswell as other big names like Minasyan, Karapetyan, Lasha Talakhadze and the USA's very own Sarah Robles...

The banning of Russian athletes with prior sanctions was an IOC decision not an IWF one. It's across all sports as well not just weightlifting. I don't really see it as a double standard more of a punishment following the report and evidence of state sponsored doping in Russia. If weren't going to ban them from competing in Rio then they had to impose some sort of penalty and that's fair enough imo.

Mellor

DylanJM wrote: »

This retesting should have started and finished months ago. I have no idea why the IOC have decided to leave it so late and even expand it to continue over the Rio games. It's just making them and the games look bad

I thought the retesting of olympic samples had finished ages ago.
And this is IOC order re-testing of Russain athletes who wish to re-apply. The order only came in the last few days.

MightyMandarin wrote: »

WADA seem to just be looking for dirty lifters from ex-Soviet countries.

What annoys me the most is the complete hypocrisy from the IWF and IOC with regard to banning Russian lifters who had previous doping violations (Kashirina), yet pretty much the entire Kazakh mens team (Rahimov, Ulanov and Zaichikov) all have violations yet are allowed to compete aswell as other big names like Minasyan, Karapetyan, Lasha Talakhadze and the USA's very own Sarah Robles...

The whole episode of retesting samples from 2008 and 2012 just stinks imo.

WADA don't do any testing. They only set the rules and standards.


Athletes from Kazakhstan, USA, Armenia etc have had their violations sure. But I don't see how the above is hypocrisy. They aren't banned simply because they failed in the past. They are banned due to the state rule doping program, and the absence of legit testing in Russia.

DylanJM

The first round of retesting finished but after how "sucessful" it was they decided to order another three rounds of it. The results of the second should be known next week and the third and fourth rounds will happen during and after the games. Which is great because what the public really want to see during the games is constant press releases about doping /s

https://www.olympic.org/news/second-wave-of-reanalysis-reveals-banned-substances-in-45-athletes-from-beijing-and-london

LuckyLloyd

There is absolutely no doubt that they should have boxed off this retrospective testing process during the prior calendar year or shelved it for the next Olympic cycle.

Mellor

DylanJM wrote: »

The first round of retesting finished but after how "sucessful" it was they decided to order another three rounds of it. The results of the second should be known next week and the third and fourth rounds will happen during and after the games. Which is great because what the public really want to see during the games is constant press releases about doping /s

https://www.olympic.org/news/second-wave-of-reanalysis-reveals-banned-substances-in-45-athletes-from-beijing-and-london

Jesus, that sounds like an awful approach. The samples are t going any where. Could have postponed it at least

MightyMandarin

Mellor wrote: »

Athletes from Kazakhstan, USA, Armenia etc have had their violations sure. But I don't see how the above is hypocrisy. They aren't banned simply because they failed in the past. They are banned due to the state rule doping program, and the absence of legit testing in Russia.

Judging by the amount of top lifters who've been caught, Kazakhstan has one of the dirtiest records in recent times, yet they're still sending some of their best lifters.

It just seems ridiculous that Russia is taking the blame for 'state run doping programs' when there are about a dozen other countries doing the exact same thing.

DylanJM

Sigh. More failures from London 2012. This sucks.

http://www.iwf.net/2016/07/27/public-disclosures-4/

MightyMandarin

DylanJM wrote: »

Sigh. More failures from London 2012. This sucks.

http://www.iwf.net/2016/07/27/public-disclosures-4/

I think this means Lydia Valentin is now a gold medallist despite finishing 4th on the podium originally? This is madness.

DylanJM

MightyMandarin wrote: »

I think this means Lydia Valentin is now a gold medallist despite finishing 4th on the podium originally? This is madness.

Yes.

Christine Girard from Canada is also now a gold medalist in the 63kg class.

MightyMandarin

At this rate it seems pointless to hand out medals in Rio because it means nothing until the test and re-test results come back.

It's great that this is about cleaning up the sport and all, but the damage this will do to weightlifting's image could be immeasurable.

DylanJM

MightyMandarin wrote: »

Judging by the amount of top lifters who've been caught, Kazakhstan has one of the dirtiest records in recent times, yet they're still sending some of their best lifters.

It just seems ridiculous that Russia is taking the blame for 'state run doping programs' when there are about a dozen other countries doing the exact same thing.

Yes but the difference is the IOC were provided with a report with actual evidence of state sponsored doping in Russia. If the IOC were provided with similar regarding other countries I'm sure they would have taken the same steps. As it is Russia should be glad they can even attend the games at all tbh.

Hanley

DylanJM wrote: »

Yes but the difference is the IOC were provided with a report with actual evidence of state sponsored doping in Russia. If the IOC were provided with similar regarding other countries I'm sure they would have taken the same steps. As it is Russia should be glad they can even attend the games at all tbh.

What was the IOCs story with capitulating to the soviet machine and allowing them in at all? Didn't they say they were f*cking the entire nation out?

cloudatlas

MightyMandarin wrote: »

At this rate it seems pointless to hand out medals in Rio because it means nothing until the test and re-test results come back.

It's great that this is about cleaning up the sport and all, but the damage this will do to weightlifting's image could be immeasurable.

They should be fined and the money redirected to the clean athlete.

DylanJM

Hanley wrote: »

What was the IOCs story with capitulating to the soviet machine and allowing them in at all? Didn't they say they were f*cking the entire nation out?

I think it was WADA rather than the IOC that wanted Russia out completely. The IOC decided that it would be better to leave it up to the various sports governing bodies to decide whether or not to ban Russian athletes. Tbh I think this was probably the right decision as it would be unfair to punish some sports for the drug problems in others.

LuckyLloyd

MightyMandarin wrote: »

At this rate it seems pointless to hand out medals in Rio because it means nothing until the test and re-test results come back.

It's great that this is about cleaning up the sport and all, but the damage this will do to weightlifting's image could be immeasurable.

Weightlifting is a doper sport. This is a proper and effective testing method. This was always going to be the outcome of same.

Mellor

MightyMandarin wrote: »

Judging by the amount of top lifters who've been caught, Kazakhstan has one of the dirtiest records in recent times, yet they're still sending some of their best lifters.

It just seems ridiculous that Russia is taking the blame for 'state run doping programs' when there are about a dozen other countries doing the exact same thing.

I've no doubt its going on in other countries. But the fact is Russia was caught. "He did it too" is the kind of excuse you get from 5 year olds.

Mellor

Anybody know what a typical weight/water cut a typical lifter is doing. I'd assume it's nowhere near a wrestlers cut. But it's not insignificant right

MightyMandarin

Mellor wrote: »

Anybody know what a typical weight/water cut a typical lifter is doing. I'd assume it's nowhere near a wrestlers cut. But it's not insignificant right

Greg Nuckols talked about a 1% drop in strength for every 1% bw lost. I imagine very few lifters would lose >5% bw for a competition.

Mellor

MightyMandarin wrote: »

Greg Nuckols talked about a 1% drop in strength for every 1% bw lost. I imagine very few lifters would lose >5% bw for a competition.

Yeah of course, dehydrating makes you weaker. But being dehydrated on the scales doesn't mean dehydrated on the platform. I'd imagine there's an optimum range that they can cut and rehydrate will no ill effects.

I wasn't thinking anything like 5%, that's surely too much to get back on. I was thinking more along the lines of 2-3%. Just wondering if anyone knew anecdotally what the top guys might weigh on the platform.

Hanley

Mellor wrote: »

Yeah of course, dehydrating makes you weaker. But being dehydrated on the scales doesn't mean dehydrated on the platform. I'd imagine there's an optimum range that they can cut and rehydrate will no ill effects.

I wasn't thinking anything like 5%, that's surely too much to get back on. I was thinking more along the lines of 2-3%. Just wondering if anyone knew anecdotally what the top guys might weigh on the platform.

I think 2-3% is a decent estimate. Maybe a tad more if they've eaten recently.

Most big lifters seem to train a good few kg heavier and cut down coming into comp. It's one of the reasons you don't always see them replicate the gym bests in comp.

...that, and being off cycle.

Sugar Free

DylanJM wrote: »

Sigh. More failures from London 2012. This sucks.

http://www.iwf.net/2016/07/27/public-disclosures-4/

Is is not strange that - for the men at least - they're getting popped for Winstrol and/or Turinabol but not not Test as well? I know we can't discuss in detail the use of AAS here but that stood out to me as strange. I guess their level of use pales in comparison to that of BBs.

Mellor

Sugar Free wrote: »

Is is not strange that - for the men at least - they're getting popped for Winstrol and/or Turinabol but not not Test as well? I know we can't discuss in detail the use of AAS here but that stood out to me as strange. I guess their level of use pales in comparison to that of BBs.

Not popping doesn't mean not using though. I'd imagine it's simply a case of detection times. Days for some compounds, verses months for others.

Sugar Free

Mellor wrote: »

Not popping doesn't mean not using though. I'd imagine it's simply a case of detection times. Days for some compounds, verses months for others.

Yeah I figured as much as well. Wouldn't want these finely tuned athletes to get into a low Test state!

DylanJM

Sugar Free wrote: »

Is is not strange that - for the men at least - they're getting popped for Winstrol and/or Turinabol but not not Test as well? I know we can't discuss in detail the use of AAS here but that stood out to me as strange. I guess their level of use pales in comparison to that of BBs.

I have no idea tbh. I think it's worth pointing out that the lifters aren't actually on drugs during the competitions, they stop using months before hand in order for the drugs to leave their system and for their testosterone levels to return to that of a regular joe soap (I imagine it's very easy for the authorities to catch people with elevated test levels). What they are being caught for is the left over traces of drug use. Improved testing methods mean they can look further back into an athletes history. Before they could see if an athlete was taking drugs say a month before the comp. Now they can see 4-5 months before the comp. This explains why all these lifters originally passed their tests at the 2012 games.

I imagine this is probably swaying into no go discussion territory. Can't wait for the actual lifting to start so we can talk about something else :pac:

Sugar Free

DylanJM wrote: »

I have no idea tbh. I think it's worth pointing out that the lifters aren't actually on drugs during the competitions, they stop using months before hand in order for the drugs to leave their system and for their testosterone levels to return to that of a regular joe soap (I imagine it's very easy for the authorities to catch people with elevated test levels). What they are being caught for is the left over traces of drug use. Improved testing methods mean they can look further back into an athletes history. Before they could see if an athlete was taking drugs say a month before the comp. Now they can see 4-5 months before the comp. This explains why all these lifters originally passed their tests at the 2012 games.

I imagine this is probably swaying into no go discussion territory. Can't wait for the actual lifting to start so we can talk about something else :pac:

Yep, aware of the general theory involved but appreciate the information on the background on the testing and how it has improved.

MightyMandarin

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Weightlifting is a doper sport. This is a proper and effective testing method. This was always going to be the outcome of same.

Is it really effective though? Ciricu will get the gold medal in the 94kg class now because all the people above him tested positive, but he's currently serving an 8yr ban for doping himself.

They'll probably catch him in further tests, but it just seems ridiculous handing a gold medal, in spite of retrospective tests, to a person who's currently serving a ban anyway.

LuckyLloyd

MightyMandarin wrote: »

Is it really effective though? Ciricu will get the gold medal in the 94kg class now because all the people above him tested positive, but he's currently serving an 8yr ban for doping himself.

They'll probably catch him in further tests, but it just seems ridiculous handing a gold medal, in spite of retrospective tests, to a person who's currently serving a ban anyway.

It's effective in that:

A) it is catching a bunch of lifters who competed in breach of the rules and preventing them from competing now
is taking no account of how "big" any particular name is
C) is laying down a marker that even if you dodge current tests in the short term we'll keep revisiting your historic samples as our testing protocols mature

It's timing and processing is inefficient, but this is a massive game changer in testing. I dislike half hearted testing regimes that amount to publicity stunts. But when sport is willing to take short term dents to reputation in order to clean up itself I'll back it.

This will be the cleanest weightlifting meet in some time and if they continue this approach over the coming years the sport will get cleaner.

DylanJM

Russia banned from Rio.

http://www.iwf.net/2016/07/29/iwf-eb-decision-on-russian-participation-at-the-rio-2016-og/

MightyMandarin

DylanJM wrote: »

Russia banned from Rio.

http://www.iwf.net/2016/07/29/iwf-eb-decision-on-russian-participation-at-the-rio-2016-og/

So that means no Okulov, Bedzhanyan or Chen. All 3 were potential gold medallists and Bedzhanyan is one of my favourite lifters.

In the eyes of purists, Rio might seem to be a success in getting a cleaner competition but you can't replace the entertainment of watching a 242kg+ clean and jerk with cleanliness.

DylanJM

At the end of the day if weightlifting wants to capitalise on its increasing popularity and wants keep its status as on Olympic sport then it has to clean up. It is a shame it has to be so messy and is taking place the week before Rio but that's life I guess. I feel in a couple of years the sport will be in a much better place.

LuckyLloyd

MightyMandarin wrote: »

So that means no Okulov, Bedzhanyan or Chen. All 3 were potential gold medallists and Bedzhanyan is one of my favourite lifters.

In the eyes of purists, Rio might seem to be a success in getting a cleaner competition but you can't replace the entertainment of watching a 242kg+ clean and jerk with cleanliness.

Yeah but everyone gets got within this new system eventually. It's fair.

I get psyched watching the US lifters duke it out a couple of times a year. If a competition is close and if it's multiples what the average weekend warrior can lift then it will always be worth watching. The consequences of clean sport is a lack of new records. I'm cool with that.

LuckyLloyd

Come on Kendrick, that's all I have to say.

DylanJM

Lifters starting to arrive at the training hall.

Hidilyn Diaz from the Philippines with a 110kg clean and jerk. She will be competing in the 53kg class. Will probaly be in with a shout at a podium spot.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BIdusxFj8qh/

DylanJM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Yeah but everyone gets got within this new system eventually. It's fair.

Not a single positive retest from China, Iran, DPRK and others so I don't think it's fair to say everyone gets caught with this new testing. I suppose it's a start though.

Mellor

We'll have to wait for he science to catch up with China. The 2024 re-tests are coming, China better watch out