BMW i3 owners

My day rate was 2c cheaper with Bord Gais.

I pay 17c/Kwh Day and 8.4 c/kwh night.

forumdedum

Thank you for that useful info re meters.

I'm very interested in the BMW i3 but not sure I'm ready to make the jump to EV just yet. Ah decisions!

peposhi

forumdedum wrote: »

Thank you for that useful info re meters.

I'm very interested in the BMW i3 but not sure I'm ready to make the jump to EV just yet. Ah decisions!

Go to 3-5 (as many as you can reach in your area) EV dealers and book a test drive. Ask for an extended one. Hopefully they'll give you a car for 2 days. Even if you get 24 hours from each test car, you'd get a fair idea of how EV fits your daily routine...

BoatMad

cros13 wrote: »

The day rate on a nightsaver meter is only about 1c more than the 24 hour rate. And the night rate is usually more than 8c cheaper.

You only have to have 25-30% of an average homes electricity use to be during the night rate hours to be saving money.
If you have an EV that's basically a given.

Also many home appliances like dishwashers, washing machines and dryers have timers these days.
I just load up the dishwasher, washing machine and dryer before going to bed and set the timers.
At the moment I have over 70% of my electricity use on the nightsaver rate and I'm paying around 20% less than I was before I got my first EV... and my EVs do over 200km a day. The diesel bills used to be several hundred euro a month.

This is exactly like my experience. , my overall electricity bill has risen by about 10 euros a month despite hone charging virtually every night. , the car does round trip commute of 130 km every workday , used to shell out 500-600 euros a month between two cats , now down to 20-50 a month. ( some diesel for the pickup truck for local journeys )

KCross

BoatMad wrote: »

This is exactly like my experience. , my overall electricity bill has risen by about 10 euros a month despite hone charging virtually every night. , the car does round trip commute of 130 km every workday , used to shell out 500-600 euros a month between two cats , now down to 20-50 a month. ( some diesel for the pickup truck for local journeys )

That doesnt sound right.

At 8c/kWh on night rate it costs about €1.60ish for a charge... more for you actually as you have a 30kWh Leaf.... how did you come to a €10/month conclusion?

My Bill has gone up about 40 Euro's per month average. I work average 15 days a month on shift, so for 7 shift days I have to charge at day rate. Work charging does make up for a lot of this.

cros13

KCross wrote: »

That doesnt sound right.

At 8c/kWh on night rate it costs about €1.60ish for a charge... more for you actually as you have a 30kWh Leaf.... how did you come to a €10/month conclusion?

My bill went down despite almost doubling kWh usage. I suspect BoatMad has done the same as me and shifted a lot of existing loads to nightsaver hours.

Our consumption wasn't huge to begin with, average 6.7 Kwh per day before the Leaf not 17.k Kwh average daily consumption.

We do use as much heavy loads as possible on the night rate + I heat the water now in the warmer months via the immersion which previously I would have used the Oil because it was cheaper before the night rate.

KCross

cros13 wrote: »

My bill went down despite almost doubling kWh usage. I suspect BoatMad has done the same as me and shifted a lot of existing loads to nightsaver hours.

I think it was just the way he stated it. It gave the impression that the car cost €10/mth to run, which obviously it doesnt(it costs more).

I think what he was saying was that getting the electric car and putting in night rate electricity at the same time it only went up by €10/mth.


Bottomline is that if you have an EV you should have night rate electricity. Its a no brainer and then, as we have said, move as much of the appliances to night rate as you can to get even more savings. The increased standing charge for having night rate is easily recouped and then some.

BoatMad

KCross wrote: »

I think it was just the way he stated it. It gave the impression that the car cost €10/mth to run, which obviously it doesnt(it costs more).

I think what he was saying was that getting the electric car and putting in night rate electricity at the same time it only went up by €10/mth.


Bottomline is that if you have an EV you should have night rate electricity. Its a no brainer and then, as we have said, move as much of the appliances to night rate as you can to get even more savings. The increased standing charge for having night rate is easily recouped and then some.

exactly,

Calahonda52

I have been in touch with a pal in the UK re getting a second hand EV: my initial spec was the Leaf [30kWh 6.6kWh charger, cold pack, no Bose sound system], but he has suggested I look at the i3.

I am 6' 2", not the most flexible lower back and the Leaf is perfect: higher seat, more head room.
I will go down to Duffy's in the am to have a look see.
I know the gaffer here has one, so just wonder how it is access wise.
Thanks as always.

cros13

It's great, I'm a little taller than you so I have to pop the seat down to it's lowest setting. You are up a bit higher than in the leaf and the doors are bigger.

The seats are comfortable but a little light on lumbar support.

jerryg

It is quite good,easy to access I am nearly 6.0 ft so I find I still have lots of head room. on a long journey say 1.5 hours long I have found that I am still feeling fresh on my arrival.
The higher ride height is really nice and I think you will be woed by the one pedal drive.
I did consider a second hand Rex as a possibility when I bought my new 33Kw it all depends on your commute and whether you do long trips.
Best of luck with your decision I tried both Leaf and i3 and I was happiest with the acceleration and build quality of the i3.

Calahonda52

Jerryg: you are on the money on all points here, thank you.
Sat into a new one just now, its as you and Cros13 said.
Build quality vs the leaf is blindly obvious.

However its outside budget at €47k, and the secondhand one, at €30k has a 2 year warranty with it as opposed to the longer one with the Leaf, so case closed.
Thanks for insights.

cros13

Base price is around €35k... not €47k.

Patser

Took an I3 for a short test drive yesterday, just some impressions - and for record I'm currently driving a hybrid and love its electric mode, hence the temptation to switch.

Pros -
I'm tall but fit in easily with lots of head space
Loved the feel of space in the cabin, minimal clutter lots of air and light
The acceleration, so smooth, the lack of any sort of gear change lag just lets you get right up to speed without noticing it.

Cons -
I'm tall, rear leg room really disappeared when I has front seat adjusted
In fact access to back seats is awkward full stop, the suicide door set up just means you've nothing to grab and pull yourself up with (even a handle grip on front seats side would've been lovely)
Boot is very, very small.
Small thing but placement of recharge point (same as if it was petrol cap) would really annoy unless you had perfect pillar plug. Even worse for Ireland is that it's on wrong side. Park at a roadside charging station, facing along with traffic flow, and you now have to bring cable to opposite side to plug in.
Price, always the price, for its size and as lovely designed as it is, but just hard to justify.... Still find myself looking at Autotrader UK and watching sterling conversion.


Quick question, does Concierge service and warranty travel with an import?

unkel

i3 is a lot cheaper compared to its competition in the UK, than it is here. And importing a second hand one will qualify for zero VRT, so that might be a far better value for money solution than buying new here!

Patser

unkel wrote: »

i3 is a lot cheaper compared to its competition in the UK, than it is here. And importing a second hand one will qualify for zero VRT, so that might be a far better value for money solution than buying new here!

Yep, that's what I can see. A lot cheaper and far more selection, but just wondering will things like warranty, concierge option travel if imported? Also the whole fun of getting a bev home from random part of UK

cros13

Patser wrote: »

Quick question, does Concierge service and warranty travel with an import?

Warranty definitely does, concierge service I'd question the utility of. The times I've used it I've had to repeatedly spell complex and obscure placenames like "Dublin" and "Waterford".

Patser

cros13 wrote: »

Warranty definitely does, concierge service I'd question the utility of. The times I've used it I've had to repeatedly spell complex and obscure placenames like "Dublin" and "Waterford".

Sales man in garage yesterday had great fun trying to show off the concierge system, when I mentioned I live in Maynooth, between that and County Kildare I'd have been quicker sending a messenger pigeon. Mind you the Lady on the line had such a perfect 'James Bond' posh French speaking English accent I'd probably never be off the system

jhegarty

Patser wrote: »

Quick question, does Concierge service and warranty travel with an import?

Warranty and service pack will travel. Haven't tried to use the Concierge.

cros13

jhegarty wrote: »

Warranty and service pack will travel. Haven't tried to use the Concierge.

I've used it while travelling. But the SIM cards in the Irish i3s are with Vodafone Ireland. I'd imagine if you are importing a car for permanent use the SIM might need to be switched to a local SIM by BMW...'cause they are paying the bills after all.

patseeb

Hi,
I just purchased BMW i3 161d Rex ,old battery so I think 22kw,never registered so due my ESB charge unit over the next 2 weeks
I'm on standard electricity,how much to charge from empty?
And what's the price difference to fully charge on nightsaver?
Also on the BMW I remote app I have preconditioning,is this to heat the cabin or will it heat the battery?or why/how and when would I heat the battery?
Any help is greatly appreciated and please excuse my ignorance as I'm new to ev
Thanks
Brian

cros13

patseeb wrote: »

due my ESB charge unit over the next 2 weeks

It will probably be longer. The ESB supplied unit is only 16A which means it only charges the i3 at half the rate the 32A onboard charger can pull power at. You can ask Nigel for a 32A unit. He charges more than a chargepoint costs outright (there is no price difference between a 32A and a 16A) even though he's getting paid on the back end by ESB.

patseeb wrote: »

I'm on standard electricity,how much to charge from empty?

Depth of Discharge (effectively how much of the battery is actually used) on the current software is 19kWh. So multiply your unit rate by 19. That's from totally empty. Electric Ireland standard 24hr rates are around 18c/kWh inc VAT, so €3.42.

patseeb wrote: »

And what's the price difference to fully charge on nightsaver?

Energia Clever Electricity (33%) unit rate for nightsaver is is 6.65c inc VAT so €1.26 inc VAT. Your household usage during nightsaver hours will also drop to this unit rate. If you haven't negotiated your rate recently the day rate will also be cheaper than you are currently paying. Standing charge increases by €40-50/year but this is offset in 2-3 months by the savings for a average EV driver.

https://www.bonkers.ie/compare-gas-electricity-prices/energia/F6CMHG/energia-clever-electricity--web-exclusive-33--/

patseeb wrote: »

Also on the BMW I remote app I have preconditioning,is this to heat the cabin or will it heat the battery?or why/how and when would I heat the battery?

When there is less than 4 hours to the set departure time only the cabin will be preconditioned. If there's more than 4 hours to the set departure time the car will precondition the battery as well as perform a pre-set series of small charges and discharges to maximize range. The Precondition Now function in the app only heats/cools the cabin.

If battery heating or cooling is required (the battery operates optimally at ~22 degrees) this will happen automatically.

patseeb wrote: »

Any help is greatly appreciated and please excuse my ignorance as I'm new to ev
Thanks
Brian

Welcome aboard!

patseeb

cros13 wrote: »

It will probably be longer. The ESB supplied unit is only 16A which means it only charges the i3 at half the rate the 32A onboard charger can pull power at. You can ask Nigel for a 32A unit. He charges more than a chargepoint costs outright (there is no price difference between a 32A and a 16A) even though he's getting paid on the back end by ESB.



Depth of Discharge (effectively how much of the battery is actually used) on the current software is 19kWh. So multiply your unit rate by 19. That's from totally empty. Electric Ireland standard 24hr rates are around 18c/kWh inc VAT, so €3.42.



Energia Clever Electricity (33%) unit rate for nightsaver is is 6.65c inc VAT so €1.26 inc VAT. Your household usage during nightsaver hours will also drop to this unit rate. If you haven't negotiated your rate recently the day rate will also be cheaper than you are currently paying. Standing charge increases by €40-50/year but this is offset in 2-3 months by the savings for a average EV driver.

https://www.bonkers.ie/compare-gas-electricity-prices/energia/F6CMHG/energia-clever-electricity--web-exclusive-33--/



When there is less than 4 hours to the set departure time only the cabin will be preconditioned. If there's more than 4 hours to the set departure time the car will precondition the battery as well as perform a pre-set series of small charges and discharges to maximize range. The Precondition Now function in the app only heats/cools the cabin.

If battery heating or cooling is required (the battery operates optimally at ~22 degrees) this will happen automatically.



Welcome aboard!

Hi,
Thank you for the help,
Ok I take it Nigel does the installations for ESB?im in south Dublin ,how much will he charge to upgrade to the 32a charger
Cheers

cros13

Yup, Nigel Daly or one of the lads working with him does pretty much all the installs from Malin to Mizen. I think in the past he's charged about €300, which I'm not delighted about as it only costs him €10-20 more in uprated cabling and MCBs.

patseeb

cros13 wrote: »

Yup, Nigel Daly or one of the lads working with him does pretty much all the installs from Malin to Mizen. I think in the past he's charged about €300, which I'm not delighted about as it only costs him €10-20 more in uprated cabling and MCBs.

Ok thks,certainly not cheap to upgrade,I do have access to a work charger also so not sure I'd pay €300
Cheers
Brian

KCross

An indo article reviewing the i3 says this:

The i3, in particular, has one odd quirk - its windscreen has a mild nauseous effect on some drivers. By 'some', I mean my wife and, to a lesser extent, me. It may just have been the individual vehicle I was driving, or it could be because the windscreen is so slanted. But looking through the i3's front glass results in a distinct sense of distortion.
When you scan left to right with your eyes, there's a small, but perceptible, warping effect. My wife ended up looking out the side most of the time.

For obvious reasons, I didn't - but I did feel twinges at times. It's not something I've ever experienced in a car before.

And while it didn't really bother me, I can't really get a car that seems to make my wife queasy.

The article is here:
http://www.independent.ie/business/technology/why-petrol-must-be-the-future-for-electric-cars-35535185.html


Anyone else see this with their i3's?

stesaurus

Nope, that's such a weird thing to state, first i've heard of it. I have heard of people taking time to adjust to the electric motor noise/frequency and it causing dizziness etc.

KCross

I havent even sat in an i3 so I cant say... but is the windscreen sloped more so than other cars?
If you were then quite tall would that slope be even more pronounced and obviously if you look sideways through a window it will distort

Maybe?

Or more likely he had a dud windscreen? I presume he didnt make it up!

cros13

dud windscreen... never had an issue (and I've had two OEM i3 windscreens)

TBi

cros13 wrote: »

dud windscreen... never had an issue (and I've had two OEM i3 windscreens)

I concur. I never noticed this on my i3. My old mini had a heated windscreen so i know what distortion on a windscreen is like!

jhegarty

Only difference to "normal" cars is very far away, compared to my previous cars (3 series and 5 series).

lob020

On a different point.I'm a bit confused about different chargepoints.what ones can be used for i3.I'm in dunlaoire area e.g. type 1.type 2 .fast charge.rapid charge Css .simple explanation appreciated and update of any new public chargepoints in my area as I'm not sure ESB maps are up to date .Thanks

goz83

KCross wrote: »

I can't really get a car that seems to make my wife queasy.

Maybe she's preggers and he doesn't know yet :eek:

cros13

There are two classes of public chargepoint in Ireland:

Standard Chargepoints:

• These are labelled standard or hotel on the ESB map.
• They provide AC power from 3.6kW (16A @ 230V) to 22kW (3x32A @ 400V).
• They provide a Type 2 Socket and you supply your own cable (in the case of the i3 you use your Type 2 to Type 2 cable that comes with the car).
• They are dependant on the internal charger in the car (7.4kW in the case of the early 2016 i3 22kWh) and are really just fancy outdoor sockets.
• Provided the chargepoint can provide a minimum of 7.4kW (most are 22kW) 22kWh i3 would charge from 0-100% in about 3 hours 30 minutes.

DC Rapid Chargers:

• These are labelled CHADEMO or CCS on the ESB map.
• They provide DC power up to 1000A @ 200 - 1000V
• They provide a fixed cable with two types of plug: CHADEMO (the Japanese standard (being phased out in europe)) and CCS (the European standard (a legal requirement if any government or EU funding is used))
• They take over control of the battery in your car and charge it as fast as the manufacturer deems possible and the charger can supply (The 22kWh i3 tops out at just over 55kW on CCS, ESB has no installations over 50kW, CCS allows for up to 400kW for future vehicles).
• 22kWh i3 would charge from 0-83% in about 25 minutes with variability of +-5 minutes due to ambient temperature.

unkel

lob020 wrote: »

On a different point.I'm a bit confused about different chargepoints.what ones can be used for i3.I'm in dunlaoire area e.g. type 1.type 2 .fast charge.rapid charge Css .simple explanation appreciated and update of any new public chargepoints in my area as I'm not sure ESB maps are up to date .Thanks

The i3 can use all public chargers in Ireland, except CHAdeMO

So use the ESB maps and untick that one, and that's you sorted

lob020

Question for cros13.as you know the car I'm interested in.is it essential that I get a home charging point ?

cros13

Yes, home charging is one of the best things about EV ownership. Without it I don't think EVs under 300km real-world range are very usable for the average driver.

Even for a high mileage owner like myself 90% of the cars mileage is covered by home charging.

jhegarty

Don't forget that CCS was an only an option on the older I3.

It's standard from last year (I think).

lob020

It has probably discussed on forum somewhere here.but does anyone know who would install home chargepoint .-qualified electrician ?

TBi

jhegarty wrote: »

Don't forget that CCS was an only an option on the older I3.

It's standard from last year (I think).

This is very important. There is an i3 for sale in Dublin at the moment without DC charging. I would avoid like the plague!

Also make sure it has the heatpump, that's also an option.

lob020

It would be very helpful if you could provide me with more details or PM me
Thanks

TBi

lob020 wrote: »

It would be very helpful if you could provide me with more details or PM me
Thanks

Google is your friend...

cros13

lob020 wrote: »

It would be very helpful if you could provide me with more details or PM me
Thanks

The car you linked to has CCS in the photos. For all i3s built from June 2016 forward, CCS rapid charging is no longer optional, it's standard (as it should have been in the first place).

This is Type 2 CCS:


And this is Type 2 without CCS:


The tell is the two big pins that are added on the CCS connector.

It's not possible to retrofit rapid charging as half the cars electronics (including the motor controller) and almost all the wiring harnesses are different.

lob020

Thanks again cros13.I'm anxious enough about buying an EV ,trying to be as thorough as possible before making the leap.I do so much appreciate your advice and assurances .I guess TBi is referring to another car and fair play to him for warning

cros13

Yeah, rapid charging is a big deal. It gives you the flexibility to do long distance or unexpected trips.

A car without it takes a big depreciation hit, and I wouldn't recommend that a first time EV owner buy a car without it.

TBi

cros13 wrote: »

Yeah, rapid charging is a big deal. It gives you the flexibility to do long distance or unexpected trips.

A car without it takes a big depreciation hit, and I wouldn't recommend that a first time EV owner buy a car without it.

This car. Look at third image.

Just watched the Grand Tour, latest episode and was wondering why James May was plugging to the type2 sockets. Now I know. No wonder the journey to south took so long. What's the maximum charging rate i3 charges from type2?

cros13

TBi wrote: »

This car. Look at third image.

Yup... that's one to avoid all right. I'll edit my post with that third image as it makes it clearer.

samih wrote: »

Just watched the Grand Tour, latest episode and was wondering why James May was plugging to the type2 sockets. Now I know. No wonder the journey to south took so long. What's the maximum charging rate i3 charges from type2?

7.4kW... realistically it's seven times slower than charging via CCS. It's not nothing... it's still faster than a 6.6-equipped leaf... but there's a big difference.

The car James May used in the Grand Tour was his old 2014... his new one is a 94Ah with CCS equipped. They were being deliberately deceptive...