Dangerous taxis in Dublin

Eathrin

Now working in Dublin City Centre, I've had a lot more encounters with taxis than ever before. Almost every single day now I have been put into dangerous situations and it's really starting to take its toll on me mentally. I have no idea why but of all road users it is taxi drivers most frequently that are the ones not giving enough space when overtaking. Additionally I've had a few near misses with taxi doors swinging wide open (from passengers and drivers in equal numbers) where they are obviously not checking their mirrors.

The worst of my experiences, however, are taxis that are stopping very rapidly and swerving towards the side of the road to pick up fares. I'm curious, apart from the obviously dangerous and negligent driving, can a taxi driver be at fault for stopping in certain areas (Double yellow lines, cycle lanes, too far from the kerb etc.)? There is extremely limited information on taxi regulation in the rsa rules of the road http://www.rsa.ie/Documents/Learner%20Drivers/Rules_of_the_road.pdf

I really love cycling and I take the rules and my safety seriously. It's a damn shame for anyone who feels too scared to cycle because of negligent road users.

Utdfan20titles

Taxis are scum

Rezident

Have to agree. I think it's because taxis work on the roads all day, some of them think they own the road. And some of them clearly HATE cyclists.

I really hope they bring in this 1.5m minimum passing distance, it feels like some taxis are deliberately passing very close to me to try and intimidate me.

Freddio

It's not just taxis , Dublin buses and cars in general have a blatant disregard for cyclists. An awful lot of car drivers don't use their rear view mirrors and the situation isn't helped when George Hook gets on the radios in these cars and espouses Isis levels of hatred against cyclists.

In answer to your question there are three basic levels of offence in this area
1 driving without due care and attention
2 careless driving
3 dangerous driving

I'll reserve my next rant for Pascal o Donohue and his cycling laws.

magicbastarder

the one time i had a coming together with a taxi, it was my own fault for not looking where i was going. a taxi braked to a stop in front of me, while i was conveniently looking down. folded the frame of the bike with the impact. he was decent enough about it, possibly relieved that i was not screaming blue murder at him, even though i'd no right to.

brianomc

Wherever possible stay out of the door zone of any car, not just taxis. If you don't have space to do so, travel a safe speed so you can stop if the door opens suddenly and try glance at the wing mirrors to see if anyone is about to open the door. Sometimes you just get someone who is so self-centred they don't need to look in mirrors. It happened me in the phoenix park, luckily I could swerve and just missed the door. When I told her she nearly hit me the response was "yeah, and?". It still gets my blood boiling thinking of it.

I don't find taxis any worse than normal cars really. They're certainly not "scum". That's a poor generalisation in the same sense that all cyclists are scum.

DanDublin1982

Taxis share more of our space than regular cars (i.e. bus lanes) especially in and around the city. I don't think they are any worse/more dangerous to cyclists, they're just there with us more often

Beer Assistant

Eathrin wrote: »

Now working in Dublin City Centre, I've had a lot more encounters with taxis than ever before. Almost every single day now I have been put into dangerous situations and it's really starting to take its toll on me mentally. I have no idea why but of all road users it is taxi drivers most frequently that are the ones not giving enough space when overtaking. Additionally I've had a few near misses with taxi doors swinging wide open (from passengers and drivers in equal numbers) where they are obviously not checking their mirrors.

The worst of my experiences, however, are taxis that are stopping very rapidly and swerving towards the side of the road to pick up fares. I'm curious, apart from the obviously dangerous and negligent driving, can a taxi driver be at fault for stopping in certain areas (Double yellow lines, cycle lanes, too far from the kerb etc.)? There is extremely limited information on taxi regulation in the rsa rules of the road http://www.rsa.ie/Documents/Learner%20Drivers/Rules_of_the_road.pdf

I really love cycling and I take the rules and my safety seriously. It's a damn shame for anyone who feels too scared to cycle because of negligent road users.

You must be one of the very few cyclist's who takes the rules of the road seriously, and have to agree with you about taxi's alot of them shouldn't even be driving go carts

magicbastarder

i think the thread title has been a bit of a bat signal.

cython

DanDublin1982 wrote: »

Taxis share more of our space than regular cars (i.e. bus lanes) especially in and around the city. I don't think they are any worse/more dangerous to cyclists, they're just there with us more often

I'd have to disagree with this. I commute daily by bike in Dublin, and hand on heart I can honestly say that the day that I saw the collective worst driving in Dublin was the day of a Dublin Bus strike, as the taxis had much freer run of the bus lanes without buses there to "get in their way", or in my view, to control them! Don't get me wrong, there are bad bus and private car drivers out there too, but as a collective group, and in particular among so-called "professional" drivers, taxi drivers have the lowest average quality of driving in my experience, with that bus strike day epitomising it for me.

Wishbone Ash

cython wrote: »

I'd have to disagree with this. I commute daily by bike in Dublin, and hand on heart I can honestly say that the day that I saw the collective worst driving in Dublin was the day of a Dublin Bus strike, as the taxis had much freer run of the bus lanes without buses there to "get in their way", or in my view, to control them! Don't get me wrong, there are bad bus and private car drivers out there too, but as a collective group, and in particular among so-called "professional" drivers, taxi drivers have the lowest average quality of driving in my experience, with that bus strike day epitomising it for me.

I think you have missed DanDublin's very valid point. Private vehicles tend to be segregated from cyclists on many streets/roads by the bus lanes. Therefore the cars that you are most likely to be closer to are taxis. When there were no bus lanes, incidents involving private cars were just as frequent as those with taxis. Your point regarding the bus strike emphasises - if there were no bus lanes, these incidents would be caused by private cars.

DanDublin1982

cython wrote: »

I'd have to disagree with this. I commute daily by bike in Dublin, and hand on heart I can honestly say that the day that I saw the collective worst driving in Dublin was the day of a Dublin Bus strike, as the taxis had much freer run of the bus lanes without buses there to "get in their way", or in my view, to control them! Don't get me wrong, there are bad bus and private car drivers out there too, but as a collective group, and in particular among so-called "professional" drivers, taxi drivers have the lowest average quality of driving in my experience, with that bus strike day epitomising it for me.

I had a broken ankle at the time so on strike day I was at home so can't make any comment about that particular day but i too cycle into the city most days and honestly the reason I mostly see taxis behaving this way is because they are the ones in the bus lane with me, moving, while the rest, generally, aren't. On my regular cycles i see dickish behaviour regularly enough to make me think it's not a taxi driver problem, it's a driver problem.

Wishbone Ash

Eathrin wrote: »

Now working in Dublin City Centre, I've had a lot more encounters with taxis than ever before. Almost every single day now I have been put into dangerous situations and it's really starting to take its toll on me mentally. I have no idea why but of all road users it is taxi drivers most frequently that are the ones not giving enough space when overtaking. Additionally I've had a few near misses with taxi doors swinging wide open (from passengers and drivers in equal numbers) where they are obviously not checking their mirrors.

The worst of my experiences, however, are taxis that are stopping very rapidly and swerving towards the side of the road to pick up fares. I'm curious, apart from the obviously dangerous and negligent driving, can a taxi driver be at fault for stopping in certain areas (Double yellow lines, cycle lanes, too far from the kerb etc.)? There is extremely limited information on taxi regulation in the rsa rules of the road http://www.rsa.ie/Documents/Learner%20Drivers/Rules_of_the_road.pdf

I really love cycling and I take the rules and my safety seriously. It's a damn shame for anyone who feels too scared to cycle because of negligent road users.

OP - I suspect your style of cycling may be adding to your experiences. I cycle a lot in the city centre and rarely have these incidents. Are you reading the road ahead and adjusting your speed/position accordingly? Are you cycling too close to the kerb? If you are cycling in a standard bus lane, a taxi should not be able to pass you -cycling close to the left encourages this behaviour. When you see a taxi pulling up, always assume the doors will open and give a wide berth.

CramCycle

Beer Assistant wrote: »

You must be one of the very few cyclist's who takes the rules of the road seriously, and have to agree with you about taxi's alot of them shouldn't even be driving go carts

MOD VOICE: Whatever your personal experiences, you will find around here that most of us do, please read a few more threads in the forum to get a feel for the forum before posting again. People may mistake your posting for trolling otherwise.

ted1

DanDublin1982 wrote: »

Taxis share more of our space than regular cars (i.e. bus lanes) especially in and around the city. I don't think they are any worse/more dangerous to cyclists, they're just there with us more often

Definitely more dangerous as they stop erratically. Busses have actual bus stops to stop at, and regular cars don't stop if someone sticks out their thumb last second.
I've been hit by a taxi, and very nearly two other times that are worth mentioning as both times it was raining and the taxi quickly pulled in without looking to pick up a fare that suddenly decided to get a taxi

dreamerb

I have occasional grumbles about drivers, but I've rarely had problems with taxi drivers. A few are conspicuously good, most are all right, a few are bad. Some of this may be routes I take (I vanishingly rarely use the N11 for example), but most of my cycling is in and around city centre.

OP, it's probably worth bearing in mind that taxi drivers are almost always on the lookout for a fare, so try to keep an eye out for anyone signalling from the kerb ahead. Similarly, plenty of taxi passengers will say "pull in here" at very short notice, and sometimes drivers react to passengers too fast. That's probably harder to read, but make sure you keep a stopping distance.

Also, +1 to what brianomc and Wishbone Ash said: keep out of the doorzone where at all possible, moderate your speed and watch carefully where it's not possible, and try to take an assertive position not too close to the kerb.

cython

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

I think you have missed DanDublin's very valid point. Private vehicles tend to be segregated from cyclists on many streets/roads by the bus lanes. Therefore the cars that you are most likely to be closer to are taxis. When there were no bus lanes, incidents involving private cars were just as frequent as those with taxis. Your point regarding the bus strike emphasises - if there were no bus lanes, these incidents would be caused by private cars.

Nope, didn't miss the point at all. I cycle on a mix of roads in the city, some with bus lanes, some without, and generally observe a higher rate of incidence of either stupid manoeuvres, or manoeuvres carried out without the requisite observation on the roads with bus lanes, and taxis are the predominant offenders. Now maybe it's that these roads tend to be multi-lane and thus have more scope for errors to be made, but much of the crap I have seen from them, I have not seen repeated by private motorists on roads without bus lanes, and certainly not with the same level of blatant disregard for other road users that many of them exhibited when they practically had free rein over the bus lanes (that day had to be seen to be believed, and the random lane switching wasn't far off some of the driving I have seen in India when traffic actually moved there!

One of the worst examples I've actually seen from a taxi lately was from one on O'Connell Street - fare flags down a taxi coming over the bridge, expecting to get in the far side of some road works hoarding. Nope, the taxi stops in the junction, and they have to step out into the roadway and nearly mix with traffic to embark. However, as I said, not all are bad, and some are very good, but for so-called professional drivers, the bad ones can be very bad!

CramCycle

Eathrin wrote: »

Now working in Dublin City Centre, I've had a lot more encounters with taxis than ever before. Almost every single day now I have been put into dangerous situations and it's really starting to take its toll on me mentally. I have no idea why but of all road users it is taxi drivers most frequently that are the ones not giving enough space when overtaking. Additionally I've had a few near misses with taxi doors swinging wide open (from passengers and drivers in equal numbers) where they are obviously not checking their mirrors.

The worst of my experiences, however, are taxis that are stopping very rapidly and swerving towards the side of the road to pick up fares. I'm curious, apart from the obviously dangerous and negligent driving, can a taxi driver be at fault for stopping in certain areas (Double yellow lines, cycle lanes, too far from the kerb etc.)? There is extremely limited information on taxi regulation in the rsa rules of the road http://www.rsa.ie/Documents/Learner%20Drivers/Rules_of_the_road.pdf

I really love cycling and I take the rules and my safety seriously. It's a damn shame for anyone who feels too scared to cycle because of negligent road users.

Make sure you are not riding in the gutter, also make sure you give a wide berth when over taking parked taxis and cars for that matter. Do not under take ones that are pulled in.

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

OP - I suspect your style of cycling may be adding to your experiences. I cycle a lot in the city centre and rarely have these incidents. Are you reading the road ahead and adjusting your speed/position accordingly? Are you cycling too close to the kerb? If you are cycling in a standard bus lane, a taxi should not be able to pass you -cycling close to the left encourages this behaviour. When you see a taxi pulling up, always assume the doors will open and give a wide berth.

I hold my hands up and my cycling in dublin sounded alot like the OPs until I was given one bit of advice when first posting on here. I am not saying it is the OP but a few changes to your cycling technique may make a world of difference, maybe not, you could just have sh1t bad luck. I know changing my view changed my experience.

jive

Freddio wrote: »

It's not just taxis , Dublin buses and cars in general have a blatant disregard for cyclists.

I disagree, I think Dublin Bus drivers are usually very good.

I concur with OPs assessment of the taxi drivers though!

tomasrojo

John Franklin's Cyclecraft book might help. It describes how to avoid a lot of unpleasant scenarios and hassles.

It's available in the public library catalogue too:
https://librariesireland.iii.com/iii/encore/search/C__Scyclecraft__Orightresult__U?lang=eng&suite=def

Eathrin

Beer Assistant wrote: »

You must be one of the very few cyclist's who takes the rules of the road seriously, and have to agree with you about taxi's alot of them shouldn't even be driving go carts

I think the majority of cyclists take the rules seriously to be honest. It makes my blood boil seeing fools flying through red lights and whatnot. It's not hard to see why motorists have a bad opinion of cyclists to be honest.

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

OP - I suspect your style of cycling may be adding to your experiences. I cycle a lot in the city centre and rarely have these incidents. Are you reading the road ahead and adjusting your speed/position accordingly? Are you cycling too close to the kerb? If you are cycling in a standard bus lane, a taxi should not be able to pass you -cycling close to the left encourages this behaviour. When you see a taxi pulling up, always assume the doors will open and give a wide berth.

I've no problem reading the road and maintaining a safe speed in traffic. The only thing you could call me out on is often cycling a little bit too close to the kerb. I'm by no means slow but I don't like to think I could be holding someone up by being near the middle of the road. I also have a niggling fear that someone not paying attention at all to the road could go straight through the back of me whereas being closer to the kerb is safer in these cases. I would like to think that all motorists see that we are sharing the road and it is their duty to safely overtake but I can see how being too close to the kerb contradicts this.

jive wrote: »

I disagree, I think Dublin Bus drivers are usually very good.

I concur with OPs assessment of the taxi drivers though!

Like someone said earlier, at least we know where a bus is going to stop. Taxis swinging in dangerously at a moments notice is a bit more difficult. I do think Bus drivers take far greater care on the road in general though, a few special cases aside.

Eathrin

dreamerb wrote: »

Also, +1 to what brianomc and Wishbone Ash said: keep out of the doorzone where at all possible, moderate your speed and watch carefully where it's not possible, and try to take an assertive position not too close to the kerb.

Of course I'm not riding right by the car doors but when they come out in full swing, especially where the cycle lane is between the parked cars and the car lane (Wexford street for example) it can be a bit terrifying.


I've said it to a few people when they're being dangerous on the road and usually get an angry response. Is it even worth calling these drivers out on their behaviour?

tomasrojo

Eathrin wrote: »

I've said it to a few people when they're being dangerous on the road and usually get an angry response. Is it even worth calling these drivers out on their behaviour?

If it's deliberate aggression, don't bother talking to them. Report them if you really think it's outrageous (though you won't get any satisfaction that way either). If it's a simple mistake, it can be worth having a calm word, so that driver doesn't make the mistake again.

On the whole, I don't talk to drivers about things they've done. I just want a quiet life.

tomasrojo

Eathrin wrote: »

I think the majority of cyclists take the rules seriously to be honest. It makes my blood boil seeing fools flying through red lights and whatnot. It's not hard to see why motorists have a bad opinion of cyclists to be honest.

The inverse logic can apply. I don't especially like the behaviour of many car drivers, especially parking on foot paths. I don't imagine they agonise about my opinion of them, so I'm not going to worry about other cyclists.

Eathrin wrote: »

I would like to think that all motorists see that we are sharing the road and it is their duty to safely overtake but I can see how being too close to the kerb contradicts this.

If you are an arm's length from the side of the road (or the line of parked cars) you are where you should be. If someone passes too closely, you have room to swing in. If you're already up against the side and someone passes too closely, you have no room to manoeuvre.

If you are an arm's length out and car drivers can't overtake you with at least a metre to spare, they shouldn't pass. If you can, don't use these types of roads; avoid roads with high volumes of fast traffic and narrow lanes. They're the worst.

Eathrin wrote: »

Like someone said earlier, at least we know where a bus is going to stop. Taxis swinging in dangerously at a moments notice is a bit more difficult. I do think Bus drivers take far greater care on the road in general though, a few special cases aside.

Dublin Bus drivers are good, on average. Some other companies are dreadful.

Wishbone Ash

Eathrin wrote: »

...I've no problem reading the road and maintaining a safe speed in traffic. .. ...... I'm by no means slow but I don't like to think I could be holding someone up..... ..... I also have a niggling fear that someone not paying attention at all to the road could go straight through the back of me whereas being closer to the kerb is safer

1. You are also 'traffic' - don't consider yourself separate from it.
2. You shouldn't feel that you are holding someone up especially in an urban area. You are entitled to be there. Drivers who wish to pass can move into the other lane if there is one or wait for a safe place to overtake. They do not have any more entitlement than you.
3. Someone not paying attention is even more likely to not see you at the side of the road. Stay out and you'll be safer.

Eathrin wrote: »

Of course I'm not riding right by the car doors but when they come out in full swing, especially where the cycle lane is between the parked cars and the car lane (Wexford street for example) it can be a bit terrifying.....

I avoid that cycle track and similar ones where vehicles are parked on the left - too much chance of getting doored. You say you have no problem maintaining a safe speed so it is therefore safer to move out and maintain the speed of the other vehicles on streets such as Wexford Street.

I don't wish to sound like I'm being critical of your cycling but from a lot of experience, I see cyclists regularly making life difficult for themselves and seemingly getting themselves into situations which are generally avoidable. Next time you are cycling in the city centre, have a look at the cyclists who are fast and purposeful - they rarely seem to get held up or get into danger, even though they appear to be taking more risks, as they are able to read the road and act accordingly.

Freddio

jive wrote: »

I disagree, I think Dublin Bus drivers are usually very good.

I concur with OPs assessment of the taxi drivers though!

As people are concurring, some are good, but your taking your life into your hands cycling on o Connell st

Chuchote

I generally find buses ok; occasional exceptions, especially along Adelaide Road for some reason.
Taxi standards seem to me to have immediately degenerated when the licensing was opened up. In College Green it is the norm to see taxi drivers swing suddenly out to do a U-turn across that huge broad road — something that should merit an instant fine. And in how they behave towards cyclists — a lot (not all) obviously regard cyclists as needing only the same care as other cars, and clearly do not realise that you're in a more delicate state when you're on a bike than when you have a steel carapace around you.

magicbastarder

i do tend to see taxis taking a lot more liberties than other cars; possibly a sense of entitlement on their part, possibly bias on my part on what i see.

Chuchote

magicbastarder wrote: »

i do tend to see taxis taking a lot more liberties than other cars; possibly a sense of entitlement on their part, possibly bias on my part on what i see.

I think it's because you expect a professional driver to behave professionally, and this has stopped being the universal custom with taxi drivers.

jive

Freddio wrote: »

As people are concurring, some are good, but your taking your life into your hands cycling on o Connell st

Anywhere within what you'd class the city centre is an absolute mess, no two ways about it. The infrastructure is terrible, 'jaywalking' is actually an issue and there's a lot of pig parking!

Eathrin

jive wrote: »

Anywhere within what you'd class the city centre is an absolute mess, no two ways about it. The infrastructure is terrible, 'jaywalking' is actually an issue and there's a lot of pig parking!

Can't get my head around the people who cross without looking and then panic as traffic comes to a screeching halt in their wake.