"Women have a right to be topless"

edanto

Dahnald Trump wrote: »

What's your obsession with having people naked? Most people want to cover up to an extent. Maybe you can find a 1960 style commune and you can go there and be naked all day?

Trumpy, much like your namesake, you are missing the point by a mile.

She (the girl at the festival removed for showing her nipples) does not want you to think the same as her. She does not want you to take your clothes off. Not unless you want to.

And if you want to (have you ever taken your top off?)... she thinks you should have the right to. And that she should. That is all.

She knows that you have the right to cover up. And she knows that most people also prefer to cover up. But she wants to be treated equally to men. It's a very simple thing.

keeponhurling

Dahnald Trump wrote: »

She's just looking for excuses so she can claim she's oppressed.

She suffered discrimination at the festival due entirely to her gender. She was singled out and brought out by Gardai, which is humiliating. She believes discrimination is wrong, therefore she is oppressed.

Whether you agree with her or not, surely you can see her point.

Depp

keeponhurling wrote: »

She suffered discrimination at the festival due entirely to her gender. She was singled out and brought out by Gardai, which is humiliating. She believes discrimination is wrong, therefore she is oppressed.

Whether you agree with her or not, surely you can see her point.

jaysus if thats what you class as oppression id love to see how youd get on in saudi arabia!

Jayop

Depp wrote: »

jaysus if thats what you class as oppression id love to see how youd get on in saudi arabia!

Ah well if that's the yardstick we may as well bring back corporal punishment and routine stonings. :rolleyes:

Depp

Jayop wrote: »

Ah well if that's the yardstick we may as well bring back corporal punishment and routine stonings. :rolleyes:

cause i mentioned both of those things :rolleyes:

edanto

Depp wrote: »

cause i mentioned both of those things :rolleyes:

Yes, you brought up Saudi Arabia, remember? Maybe one of us can dig out a link to your post; it wasn't too far back.

Depp

edanto wrote: »

Yes, you brought up Saudi Arabia, remember? Maybe one of us can dig out a link to your post; it wasn't too far back.

but i never mentioned capital punishment did i? i was talking about the oppression that women are subjected to out there and how it just goes to show how good we have it here!

Jayop

Depp wrote: »

cause i mentioned both of those things :rolleyes:

You're using Saudi Arabia as a yard stick for what oppressed means.

Jayop

Depp wrote: »

but i never mentioned capital punishment did i? i was talking about the oppression that women are subjected to out there and how it just goes to show how good we have it here!

So woman here should count themselves lucky?

Depp

Jayop wrote: »

So woman here should count themselves lucky?

well basically yeah, we all do here, I dont go around complaining like ''I cant afford these shoes right now my life is so hard'' when theres people out there who genuinely cant afford food, have some perspective and be thankful for what you have

Jayop

Depp wrote: »

well basically yeah, we all do here, I dont go around complaining like ''I cant afford these shoes right now my life is so hard'' when theres people out there who genuinely cant afford food, have some perspective and be thankful for what you have

What a load of codswollop.

If you went into the shoe shop and they wouldn't sell you the shoes on the basis of your gender alone I'm sure you'd have an issue. Just because we're not starving or getting stoned to death doesn't mean we can't take issue with other discrimination closer to home.

Really, some of the posts in this thread beggar belief.

Depp

Jayop wrote: »

What a load of codswollop.

If you went into the shoe shop and they wouldn't sell you the shoes on the basis of your gender alone I'm sure you'd have an issue. Just because we're not starving or getting stoned to death doesn't mean we can't take issue with other discrimination closer to home.

Really, some of the posts in this thread beggar belief.

its so hard to live here, im so oppressed, what sort of draconian society forces me to wear a fucking top!? get over yourself like,
talk about a sense of entitlement

Jayop

Depp wrote: »

its so hard to live here, im so oppressed, what sort of draconian society forces me to wear a fucking top!? get over yourself like,
talk about a sense of entitlement

You're absolutely right.

The only surprise is that you didn't call me a snowflake.

Maximus Alexander

Depp wrote: »

its so hard to live here, im so oppressed, what sort of draconian society forces me to wear a fucking top!? get over yourself like,
talk about a sense of entitlement

So the argument now is that because it could be worse we shouldn't want to make it better?

osarusan

The argument that because things are much worse in (insert backwards hellhole here) we shouldn't complain about stuff here is about as stupid as it gets.

Ted111

osarusan wrote: »

The argument that because things are much worse in (insert backwards hellhole here) we shouldn't complain about stuff here is about as stupid as it gets.

You might think so, but you should hear some of the mental arguments for stuff they have in arab culture.

Permabear

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Jayop

Dahnald Trump wrote: »

Aw the poor baby, how does she deal with such terrible oppression? Man's inhumanity knows no bounds. And there I was thinking women in Africa and the Middle East were facing oppression.

God almighty this place sometimes...hey I'm oppressed too. Tomorrow morning I have to get up and work in order to support myself. Now that's true oppression!

Joins today........God, this place sometimes....

Jayop

Permabear wrote: »

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Most woman don't want to have abortions I'd imagine. They still would like the right to.

I'm sure she wasn't going on some crusade when she pulled her top off, she says as much. What happened afterwards was absolutely wrong though.

Ted111

Jayop wrote: »

God, this place sometimes....

He's going to make this place Great Again. We're going to do it. Believe me.

Arcade_Tryer

Permabear wrote: »

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But if you go on the premise that women being more reluctant to be topless in public on say a hot day or at an event than men due to societal norms and social conditioning, then surely when more women (like the girl at the recent festival) exercising the right will go some way to changing those norms and conditioning and it will become more common. The abortion comparison is a good one in relation to the choice a woman should have, except there is absolutely nothing objectively wrong or even ethically questionable about being topless.

Also, again the "more important things to campaign for" argument is entirely irrelevant. Everything is relative. Should boards.ie only allow discussion of terrorism and not politics, because it's more important? Or vice versa? And the idea that she should protest something more important also ignores the sad reality that this obviously is an important issue when so many people here are opposed to it!

Further, if you return to the fundamental point once again, this essentially comes down to the basic human right of a human being to be allowed to exercise a right that other human beings are allowed to exercise. This person's intentions, motivations, and quality or worthiness of protestation, really are all besides that single and important issue.

Also, as someone who posts quite a lot in the politics forum, and knowledgeably, you should know that change occurs very slowly. This is a small step in the grand scheme of things. But no less important, if only for some of the reactions on this very thread.

Esel

Donald, the heatwave is over. Put your wifebeater back on.

Permabear

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TSMGUY

Permabear wrote: »

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Probably, but if some idealistic altruists want to spend their time and energy liberating tits, I'm all for it. All it takes is for a few good men to do nothing and all that.....

Maximus Alexander

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

I've always found it hilarious how 'intelligent' creatures like humans can get so bent out of shape over seeing what their bodies look like. It's actually gas, like. It would be impossible to put into words why it's a problem because it's so irrational.

Another user of boards put it well once - so forgive me for stealing it. A lot of it has to do with humans not wanting to think of themselves as animals. Many of them want to think of the human species as somehow separate and above the animal kingdom and shy away from reminders of our lowly origins.

So seeing sexual organs - seeing breasts or breast feeding in public - people going to the toilet - people not eating correctly with the right social norms - even much of the hate people pile on scientific theories of things like Evolution - and much more all serve as reminders of what it is we truly are. It makes people uncomfortable because it displays the animal nature which they would prefer to imagine is not actually there.

tonycascarino wrote: »

Completely agree with meeeeh and Dahnald Trump...It would be boring if you saw a woman's tits everyday...

So the ethics of making one rule for one sex and not for the other sex should entirely be ignored for the sole reason that it might bore you? That is an unusual argument. I have not heard many people in the past suggest equal rights should be put on hold in areas where ones personal entertainment is at stake.

P. Breathnach

edanto wrote: »

...
meeeh; you're wrong she's not an attention seeker, but she is a campaigner for what she views as a human rights issue....

meeeh is right to a limited extent: she is an attention seeker; she is seeking attention for her campaign. Where I would disagree with meeeh is in the negative connotation that she applies to the behaviour. What's wrong with "Look at me; this is how I should be allowed behave."?

Permabear

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Jayop

Wrong. You can compare different types of discrimination without saying they are equal. That's as daft as the other poster essentially saying that Irish woman should shut up and by happy they're not going to in Saudi Arabia.

Permabear

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Jayop

If they were there to protect the public then what were they doing interfering with her? Was her nipple causing some danger to society?

Permabear

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Jayop

Permabear wrote: »

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Absolutely, or warn them about wasting police time.

If i complained to the guard about some spurious harmless thing I'd expect to be told to get stuffed.

Permabear

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Jayop

Permabear wrote: »

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Or protest.

The guard was wrong. Didn't someone say the legislation quoted was proven unconstitutional?

RWCNT

Nipple is such a funny word.

Permabear

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Kev_2012

T!ts out for the Boys in Green...

Jayop

Permabear wrote: »

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So the guard was wrong and within the scope of their job they have to decide on a daily basis if a complaint received is something they have the authority to deal with. In this case by your definition it most certainly wasn't. She didn't reveal her genitals and she by all accounts wasn't perpetrating offensive conduct of a sexual nature by any scale.

The guard should have told the complainant to cop themselves on.

Jayop

Of course it's the guards job to decide if something is illegal. If someone complains a person is behaving in an anti social manner and the guard shows up he doesn't just take the complaint as gospel, he makes a decision based on his knowledge of the law and what he can see with his own eyes and acts accordingly.

jigglypuffstuff

Jayop wrote: »

She was absolutely right. It's so funny in Spain on holidays to see people's attitudes to their and other people's bodies. Topless woman at every beach, kids running around nude and no one bats an eyelid. Why should it be different here and why should there be a rule for men and a rule for woman.

Public indecency my hole.

Simple really

Immature society

You change the society, you'll change the rules

But considering that immaturity is a reinforced and often socially desirable trait here, I dont think that will be happening anytime soon

But shes attention seeking anyway, its obvious

pxdf9i5cmoavkz

Food for thought.

Permabear

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Jayop

Permabear wrote: »

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What are you on about? So I can ring the guards at a festival and tell them someone with a pair of tight shorts and twerking is offending me with conduct of a sexual nature and the Guard has no choice but to tell them to cover themselves up or leave the festival???

That's rubbish of the highest order, of course a guard has a duty to decide if an offense has taken place or if the person who complained is a raving lunatic.

Permabear

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Jayop

Permabear wrote: »

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breastfeeding in public is offensive to people too. Should a guard act if they are called to the scene of a woman feeding her child in a restaurant?

Please explain the difference.

conorhal

Permabear wrote: »

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Indeed, there are heaps of posts blathering on about French and Spanish beaches, ignoring the fact that you won't see a woman walking about the streets Barcelona or Paris topless. There's a time, a place and a context that people seem determined to ignore, especially loud, self promoting eejits at concerts.

Permabear

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Ush1

Permabear wrote: »

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So a girl getting her jabs out is attention seeking and wasting time but complaining about it to Gardai isn't wasting anyones time?

The Gardais time was wasted by themselves and whoever made these complaints.

HanaleiJ5N

Good luck to her I say, but if you live in a culture/society where the ability to go topless in public is seen as a burning equality/feminism issue then you should probably be grateful, go spend a bit of time in a place like Saudi Arabia (one of many examples) where you'll not be long finding out what gender inequality is all about.

Not to trivialise gender inequality in this country, still plenty of it about. (Not just for women, plenty of it for men too.)

Jayop

Ah the old Saudi Arabia chestnut again.