Gym before work

Alf Veedersane

Considering the burning of fat during fasted training is short sighted. Your body continuously adjusts its use of fat and carbs for fuel dynamically so considering the level of fat burned in a particular timeframe isn't useful as an assessment of its impact on fat burning.If you burn more fat during a session, you'll probably use more CHO the rest of the day whereas the converse may happen for those who have a workout fuelled by CHO.

Brad Schoenfeld did a study recently enough on this with two groups of people who trained in the morning - one group trained fasted and the other had a 250 calorie shake that was 65% CHO before training. The fasted training group had the same shake after training. Aside from that, their diets were the same.

There was no significant difference between the groups.

So yes, your belief that fasted exercise will ultimately burn more fat is flawed. If your diet in both cases is the same, it doesn't matter if you've eaten before you exercise or not.

fitbill

Considering the burning of fat during fasted training is short sighted. Your body continuously adjusts its use of fat and carbs for fuel dynamically so considering the level of fat burned in a particular timeframe isn't useful as an assessment of its impact on fat burning.If you burn more fat during a session, you'll probably use more CHO the rest of the day whereas the converse may happen for those who have a workout fuelled by CHO.

Brad Schoenfeld did a study recently enough on this with two groups of people who trained in the morning - one group trained fasted and the other had a 250 calorie shake that was 65% CHO before training. The fasted training group had the same shake after training. Aside from that, their diets were the same.

There was no significant difference between the groups.

So yes, your belief that fasted exercise will ultimately burn more fat is flawed. If your diet in both cases is the same, it doesn't matter if you've eaten before you exercise or not.

You see !!! Now you learn talking with arguments and examples.

You just mention a meal of 250 calories before training, almost nothing (this is not a breakfast like the user in this topic mentioned). And I mention to my first post, "FEW or NONE calories". Almost same meaning here ..

Also every human body works differently .. I did that same things like you mention on your example .. you can have better results when you make the tests to your own self. And thats what I did.

I compared 1 month this method the next month the other method. I was cutting more when I wasnt eating the meal before training or just eating few calories (carbs). I did not say that was exremely huge difference. Everything work fine in both ways, but I saw some difference on cutting. Same diet same training.

Speak better next time like you just did, you will receive a nice conversation later. And I did not care if you do not agree with me, this is what we do in forums. We talk nicely to each other to get different opinions.

Alf Veedersane

fitbill wrote: »

You see !!! Now you learn talking with arguments and examples.

You just mention a meal of 250 calories before training, almost nothing (this is not a breakfast like the user in this topic mentioned). And I mention to my first post, "FEW or NONE calories". Almost same meaning here ..

Also every human body works differently .. I did that same things like you mention on your example .. you can have better results when you make the tests to your own self. And thats what I did.

I compared 1 month this method the next month the other method. I was cutting more when I wasnt eating the meal before training or just eating few calories (carbs). I did not say that was exremely huge difference. Everything work fine in both ways, but I saw some difference on cutting. Same diet same training.

Speak better next time like you just did, you will receive a nice conversation later.

250 calories might be 10%+of someone's daily maintenance. Eat 250 calories above maintenance every day and you'll soon find put how inconsequential it is.

If not eating before exercise means you eat less overall then that's different and not related to fasted exercise.

Science is built on consensus, not n=1. That's the difference between my examples and yours.

ford2600

There is a study with about 20 subjects recently enough which confirms what Alf said; fasted cardiovascular training versus fed state showed no difference in fat mass.

This study ( again with n=20) shows how the body adapts to training in the fasted state in terms of fat use.

/www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3253005/

The big advantage of this strategy along with intermittent fasting is giving back control to athlete of chosing when to eat, allowing better food choices.

Was travelling all day, and just after a hard 1hr mtb ride; the last time I ate was yesterday evening. Made up for it since though 😀

5 large eggs, 100 g cheese, between butter, coconut fat & olive oil and 150g of added fat, two large onions, 4 tomatoes and half a head of broccoli.

Is that cake I see in the fridge...

Mellor

fitbill wrote: »

"flawed"? Did you ever tried? Cause I tried both? It works just fine for me when I am doing it.

Yes I have tried it. I train faster all the time.
But I also understand how energy use works.

But when you start your day with few or no carbs at all, and you go direct for workout, your body needs energy so it goes directly to the fat storages of your body and starts burning, specially if the workout is with max intense.

that is incorrect.
At max intensity you are more likely to be burning off glycogen not fat.

If two people have the same training, and ear the same food - you before training and the other after training. The rest of the day is the same.
How you one of them burn more fat? What has the other one burned instead? Their energy use was is the same

j@utis

stee.mc79 wrote: »

Anyone ever try bulletproof coffee (coffee with coconut fat) before training?

I take a cup of "skinny" bulletproof coffee with me to the gym if I train early in the morning and sip on it slowly in between the weight sets. It prevents me from getting hungry towards the end of the workout. I call it skinny because it's only about 100kcals, contains 1 teaspoon of coconut oil + 1 tablespoon of cream. Early morning workouts are always my best

Ekels

Want to start going to the Flyefit in Portobello in the mornings. Issue is I'll be getting Luas in to Harcourt St. and walking up to Portobello with a suit and shirt. Painful. Life would be so much easier going in the evenings!

Lucashood2016

Anyone that thinks fasted training will burn more fat is ignorant and doesn't understand simple math .

The simplest way to try and explain it is don't look at the fat on your body and the food as you eat as separate entities , look at them both as energy . I have energy's stored on my body , I eat energy . The exercise I do burns energy in the form of calories , the food I eat adds energy.

So with that simple concept in place consider a person with a maintenance calories of 2500 calories and does does a 500 calorie burning workout every day. Whether he does his workout first thing in the morning and burns 500 calories before eating any food or does his 500 calorie workout after eating 2500 calories the math is the same. If you try and use the argument that doing your exercise first thing in the morning in a fasted state and then eat your days 2500 calories you can use the same argument to support doing your workout after eating your days 2500, your burning 500 calories from 2500 you have just eaten

Lucashood2016

0=fasted state
500=calories workout burns
2500=calories eaten in the day

Fasted training day

0-500+2500=2000

Train after eating your days food

2500-500=2000

Gael23

Assetbacked wrote: »

I get up at 6:50am and down a pint of water, poo, throw on the gym gear and get into the gym at 7:10.

Does the pint of water make you poo? I rarely workout early morning because I never take care of that business before I eat breakfast.

Smoked Tuna

Lucashood2016 wrote: »

Anyone that thinks fasted training will burn more fat is ignorant and doesn't understand simple math .

The simplest way to try and explain it is don't look at the fat on your body and the food as you eat as separate entities , look at them both as energy . I have energy's stored on my body , I eat energy . The exercise I do burns energy in the form of calories , the food I eat adds energy.

So with that simple concept in place consider a person with a maintenance calories of 2500 calories and does does a 500 calorie burning workout every day. Whether he does his workout first thing in the morning and burns 500 calories before eating any food or does his 500 calorie workout after eating 2500 calories the math is the same. If you try and use the argument that doing your exercise first thing in the morning in a fasted state and then eat your days 2500 calories you can use the same argument to support doing your workout after eating your days 2500, your burning 500 calories from 2500 you have just eaten

Lucashood2016 wrote: »

0=fasted state
500=calories workout burns
2500=calories eaten in the day

Fasted training day

0-500+2500=2000

Train after eating your days food

2500-500=2000

Doesn't working out first thing in the morning boost your metabolism for the day so you end up burning slightly more calories?

Plus it may give you an energy boost and then end up burning more calories as a result from being more energetic.

But, 6am is still very early :eek:

Powerhouse

This is a bit of a twist in the theme here but reading through the first few pages it is interesting to see the amount of people who take a protein shake in the morning. Why do people take protein shakes? Can the requisite protein not be got from food? Or is the idea to provide surplus protein? And if so why?

(Obviously I get the idea that protein helps muscle but this can be found in food so I am wondering specifically in the case of individuals why they in their particular cases take protein shakes).

Alf Veedersane

Powerhouse wrote: »

This is a bit if a twist in the theme here but reading through the first few pages it is interesting to see the amount of people who take a protein shake in the morning. Why do people take protein shakes? Can the requisite protein not be got from food?

It can but it's a supplement...so if people aren't getting enough protein from food it's useful.

Though there are a lot of people who take protein shakes because muscle.

Mellor

Powerhouse wrote: »

Can the requisite protein not be got from food? Or is the idea to provide surplus protein? And if so why?

A protein shake is food. That's all really

Powerhouse

Mellor wrote: »

A protein shake is food. That's all really

So is it akin to Slim Fast - a meal replacement? Just one that is protein heavy.

Alf Veedersane

Powerhouse wrote: »

So is it akin to Slim Fast - a meal replacement? Just one that is protein heavy.

One is a meal replacement. The other is a supplement. Therein lies the difference.

If someone isn't getting enough protein from their food intake, then why not top up their protein intake with a shake.

It's not replacing anything.

Powerhouse

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

why not top up their protein intake with a shake.

It's not replacing anything.

This (if it's not replacing anything) raises the question of calorific value. Any idea what this amounts to for the average shake?

Mellor

Powerhouse wrote: »

So is it akin to Slim Fast - a meal replacement? Just one that is protein heavy.

No it's just food.
In the same way that milk, cheese, vegetables, chicken are just food.

The calorific value is the same as the equivalent protein from any other source. Protein as a fairly uniform 4cals per gram.

Alf Veedersane

Powerhouse wrote: »

This (if it's not replacing anything) raises the question of calorific value. Any idea what this amounts to for the average shake?

Depends on what you make it with. Made with water a serving is of the order of 120-140 kcals.

Milks adds in another ~40-60 kcals per 100ml.

It's never been touted as a meal replacement. It's a way of supplementing protein intake from food.

Nervous Wreck

Powerhouse wrote: »

This is a bit of a twist in the theme here but reading through the first few pages it is interesting to see the amount of people who take a protein shake in the morning. Why do people take protein shakes? Can the requisite protein not be got from food? Or is the idea to provide surplus protein? And if so why?

(Obviously I get the idea that protein helps muscle but this can be found in food so I am wondering specifically in the case of individuals why they in their particular cases take protein shakes).

Difficult enough to have a plate of fried eggs and bacon on the stroll to work.

Dtp1979

Nervous Wreck wrote: »

Difficult enough to have a plate of fried eggs and bacon on the stroll to work.

Unless you throw them all into a blender with some coffee and toast too

Zillah

Mellor wrote: »

No it's just food.
In the same way that milk, cheese, vegetables, chicken are just food.

The calorific value is the same as the equivalent protein from any other source. Protein as a fairly uniform 4cals per gram.

No it is a powder and therefore looks kind of scary to me. So it's, like, Angel Delight or something? Shouldn't be having 90's dessert for breakfast imo.

Dtp1979

Zillah wrote: »

No it is a powder and therefore looks kind of scary to me. So it's, like, Angel Delight or something? Shouldn't be having 90's dessert for breakfast imo.

Jaysus I wish whey tasted like angel delight.
Myprotein, if you're listening, and I know you are cause you've stole my ideas in the past, will you please make an angel delight flavour for 2017.
Thanks

Powerhouse

Nervous Wreck wrote: »

Difficult enough to have a plate of fried eggs and bacon on the stroll to work.

True enough, although the bacon and eggs could be had before leaving for work.
I am amazed that protein shakes have no more qualities than ordinary food given their popularity - I always assumed they helped with recovery or whatever. I'd certainly find the more traditional food a more attractive option!

Alf Veedersane

Powerhouse wrote: »

True enough, although the bacon and eggs could be had before leaving for work.
I am amazed that protein shakes have no more qualities than ordinary food given their popularity - I always assumed they helped with recovery or whatever. I'd certainly find the more traditional food a more attractive option!

They do help with recovery. But no more than food.

They're a supplement and they're convenient. But they are essentially a food so they won't give you anything more than food with a similar nutritional profile.

If you ever have a yoghurt...the watery stuff at the top when you open it is whey.

Smoked Tuna

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

They do help with recovery. But no more than food.

They're a supplement and they're convenient. But they are essentially a food so they won't give you anything more than food with a similar nutritional profile.

If you ever have a yoghurt...the watery stuff at the top when you open it is whey.

Doesn't protein powder often have other stuff in it like amino acids?

Alf Veedersane

Smoked Tuna wrote: »

Doesn't protein powder often have other stuff in it like amino acids?

Protein is made from amino acids whether it comes from food, whey, casein or Old Mr Brennan's bread.