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Eviction when no lease

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  • 28-07-2016 12:04am
    #1
    Maggie007
    Registered Users Posts: 30 ✭


    Hi,
    I'm looking for some advice. I've been living at a property for over 5 years with no signed lease. Recently Ive been informed that the previous owner has sold this house and that this will in no way affect my tenancy here;same terms etc. However today I received a call from the new property managment company informing me that I must move out within 3 weeks. I asked for them to receive this in writing and said that I believe Im entitled to a 140 day notice. Am I still protected by the law even if no lease has been signed?


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    #2
    MarkAnthony
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭MarkAnthony


    Maggie007 wrote: »
    Am I still protected by the law even if no lease has been signed?

    Yes, although showing that you've been living there as long as you have obviously then falls to you with receipts/bank records etc.

    Contact Threshold for some advice and let the current owners know you'll be registering a complaint with the RTB unless they'd like to be more reasonable and come to a mutual agreement. You may find it benefits you to play ball with them, such as a reduced rent in favour of a shorter notice period.


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    #3
    4ensic15
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,691 ✭✭✭4ensic15


    Maggie007 wrote: »
    Hi,
    I'm looking for some advice. I've been living at a property for over 5 years with no signed lease. Recently Ive been informed that the previous owner has sold this house and that this will in no way affect my tenancy here;same terms etc. However today I received a call from the new property managment company informing me that I must move out within 3 weeks. I asked for them to receive this in writing and said that I believe Im entitled to a 140 day notice. Am I still protected by the law even if no lease has been signed?

    A tenancy can be either oral or in writing. In addition to the 140 days there must also be a valid reason given. You should write back to the company by recorded post keeping a copy of the letter and state what happened and that you do not consider this valid notice.


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    #4
    godtabh
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 23,218 Mod ✭✭✭✭godtabh


    How long you are there will be important. You are in your second cycle of Part IV so you have have a shorter notice period. It will however be greater than 3 weeks. Its also from the date of receipt of written notice.


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    #5
    Ms Doubtfire1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,422 ✭✭✭Ms Doubtfire1


    Don't agree. OP is indeed in the second cycle of the Part 4 tenancy, i.e. OP has the right to stay for another 3 years with a few exceptions (owner wants to live in house himself, property is being sold).OP get on to threshhold for the details. Make sure you have everything to prove you were there for 5 years.Don't let them get to you


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    #6
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    Maggie- yes, you're entitled to 140 days notice- and as you're outside the first 6 months of your second 4 year cycle- they can only serve notice under specific conditions- none of which apply to you (aka the purchaser should have insisted on vacant possession when they were buying the property- they can't retrospectively insist on it- unless they are doing renovations or intend to personally live in it themselves (and other reasons such as antisocial behaviour etc)- they can't even serve the 140 day notice.


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    #7
    Maggie007
    Registered Users Posts: 30 ✭Maggie007


    They send some one here to change the locks today! Thankfully that got sorted out. The agency that managed this property before just told me that I'm not entitled to any notice as Im living here On a care takers agreement. I contacted the flac and I'm waiting for them to call me back. I have not had any contact from the new agency that manages this property now since my reply to them in re to the 3 weeks notice.


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    #8
    Ms Doubtfire1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,422 ✭✭✭Ms Doubtfire1


    they will try that. are you living there on a caretakers agreement?Unless they have that in writing that's BS. change the locks yourself(not sure if that will avoid changing the locks again)


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    #9
    Maggie007
    Registered Users Posts: 30 ✭Maggie007


    Ms Doubtfire1 wrote: »
    they will try that. are you living there on a caretakers agreement?Unless they have that in writing that's BS. change the locks yourself(not sure if that will avoid changing the locks again)
    Yes but this was never on paper until yesterday when my dad was asked to sign such agreenment by the old management company dated back to 2012. They made him believe this was for his own good and stresses by the whole situation he signed it.


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    #10
    Michael D Not Higgins
    Registered Users Posts: 7,223 ✭✭✭Michael D Not Higgins


    Wait, it IS a caretaker agreement?


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    #11
    Ms Doubtfire1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,422 ✭✭✭Ms Doubtfire1


    backdated???? get legal advice pronto...the nerve they have:mad:


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    #12
    Ms Doubtfire1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,422 ✭✭✭Ms Doubtfire1


    in additon...if you have anyone witnessing him in person that he only signed the lease yesterday...you're in a very strong position. but get legal advise without delay


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    #13
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    Maggie007 wrote: »
    Yes but this was never on paper until yesterday when my dad was asked to sign such agreenment by the old management company dated back to 2012. They made him believe this was for his own good and stresses by the whole situation he signed it.

    Get into your solicitor first thing in the morning- if you haven't done so already.
    You need a competent solicitor to take this on immediately- without delay.
    If its a caretakers agreement- you can be asked to leave immediately- no notice whatsoever- you are not a tenant, you are not covered by the Residential Tenancies Act, you have no rights whatsoever.

    Someone is pulling the sneakiest fastest one I've seen in a long while here.


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    #14
    Maggie007
    Registered Users Posts: 30 ✭Maggie007


    The_Conductor wrote: »
    Get into your solicitor first thing in the morning- if you haven't done so already.
    You need a competent solicitor to take this on immediately- without delay.
    If its a caretakers agreement- you can be asked to leave immediately- no notice whatsoever- you are not a tenant, you are not covered by the Residential Tenancies Act, you have no rights whatsoever.

    Someone is pulling the sneakiest fastest one I've seen in a long while here.
    Thanks, at least I know what to expect now.


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    #15
    mirrorwall14
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,751 ✭✭✭mirrorwall14


    The_Conductor wrote: »
    Get into your solicitor first thing in the morning- if you haven't done so already.
    You need a competent solicitor to take this on immediately- without delay.
    If its a caretakers agreement- you can be asked to leave immediately- no notice whatsoever- you are not a tenant, you are not covered by the Residential Tenancies Act, you have no rights whatsoever.

    Someone is pulling the sneakiest fastest one I've seen in a long while here.

    That is honestly horrific behaviour and I would imagine legally dodgy. OP get on the phone to a solicitor in the morning, preferably one with experience in housing issues


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    #16
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    I would be giving Joe Duffy's Liveline a ring tomorrow!


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    #17
    TheChizler
    Registered Users Posts: 9,455 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    You say your dad signed the caretakers agreement on your behalf, does he live with you? Are you under 18? I'm not sure how they can say that an agreement made with a third party applies to you if not.


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    #18
    Maggie007
    Registered Users Posts: 30 ✭Maggie007


    TheChizler wrote: »
    You say your dad signed the caretakers agreement on your behalf, does he live with you? Are you under 18? I'm not sure how they can say that an agreement made with a third party applies to you if not.
    No it wasn't On my behalf, I live with my parents. The agreenment was between my father and the management agency.


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    #19
    Ms Doubtfire1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,422 ✭✭✭Ms Doubtfire1


    Maggie007 wrote: »
    No it wasn't On my behalf, I live with my parents. The agreenment was between my father and the management agency.

    thats a tad confusing lol....


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    #20
    testaccount123
    Registered Users Posts: 1,023 ✭✭✭testaccount123


    Have you been paying rent in this property for five years or not?


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    #21
    Maggie007
    Registered Users Posts: 30 ✭Maggie007


    testaccount123 wrote: »
    Have you been paying rent in this property for five years or not?
    No rent just bills.


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    #22
    Ms Doubtfire1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,422 ✭✭✭Ms Doubtfire1


    ouch...that could change things drastically.did you get legal advise?


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    #23
    TheChizler
    Registered Users Posts: 9,455 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    I'm a little confused. So you and your parents are living in a house managed by a property management agency, and only pay bills, not rent? Do you have exclusive access to the property? It really sounds like a caretaker's agreement TBH, but normally they're on paper and sorted out before it commences. Do you have any documentation or correspondence from the management agency from when you moved in?

    Either way a solicitor probably needs to look into this.


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    #24
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    Maggie007 wrote: »
    No rent just bills.

    That does change things.........
    I'd still say that you need to get advice- but the fact that you weren't paying rent does shed significant light on the situation.........


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    #25
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,966 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    Maggie007 wrote: »
    No rent just bills.

    So why do you think you are a tenant, if you have not been paying rent?

    Just to be certain - have your parents been paying any rent?


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    #26
    Maggie007
    Registered Users Posts: 30 ✭Maggie007


    Thanks to all for advice. I have now received some help in this matter. To those asking the terms of us living here were not clear until a couple of days ago as there never was any written agreenment.


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    #27
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    Maggie007 wrote: »
    Thanks to all for advice. I have now received some help in this matter. To those asking the terms of us living here were not clear until a couple of days ago as there never was any written agreenment.

    It didn't have to be written- verbal agreements can be equally as valid- and as you weren't paying rent- its hard to see how it would be covered under the RTA. Had you volunteered that little nugget at the outset- most of the people who commented on the thread would very probably have given you different advice........

    By all means have a solicitor look into it for you- however, in the absence of rent paid- its a hell of a long shot.........


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    #28
    Marcusm
    Registered Users Posts: 10,338 ✭✭✭✭Marcusm


    The_Conductor wrote: »
    That does change things.........
    I'd still say that you need to get advice- but the fact that you weren't paying rent does shed significant light on the situation.........

    The fact that there was no rent means in RTA purposes there is neither a "landlord" nor a tenancy and thus a very difficult situation for the OP's family.


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    #29
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    Marcusm wrote: »
    The fact that there was no rent means in RTA purposes there is neither a "landlord" nor a tenancy and thus a very difficult situation for the OP's family.

    Its also why in the case of caretaker arrangements- absolutely no rent is paid by the caretaker, just bills such as utilities etc- as if 'rent' were to be paid, even a token amount- the legal relationship of the transaction changes fundamentally.


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