Landlord keeping deposit

Shop40

Hi,
Looking for advice please.
My situation is my family and I moved out of our rented house a few weeks ago. We were there for 3.5 years.

Rent was paid up in full, we gave the required one month notice in writing and all bills settled on departure.

Gave the house a good clean upstairs, and the living room downstairs but the oven and utility area needed more of a scrub. Not trying to make excuses, but only to explain, one of my kids has extra needs and it was very difficult to get the time to give the place as good a clean as I wanted to.

Fast forward and the landlord says he is keeping half our deposit. He says he got a cleaning company in, 3 people, at a cost of 300 euro. I told him most of the house was clean and he said "well I didn't check the whole house."

He also told me that people were always telling him he should have increased the rent but he didn't because we were good tenants.

He said he would forward by email a receipt for the cleaning. That was a week ago and still no sign of it, nor the rest of my deposit.

Is he in the right?

He is selling a small commercial property he owns next door and did mention shortly before we moved out that it was "left in a mess" by previous tenant, too filthy to put the pics up on a property website. I'm wondering if he got this cleaned too (on us)!

He was a nice enough guy and is registered as a landlord. Only annoying thing was that he used to turn up at the door without any notice but it didn't happen much. I'm a bit surprised by all this to be honest.

Any thoughts would be most welcome,
thanks.

SarahS2013

How big was the house? €300 seems very excessive, I'd be on to him several times a day until he can provide you with a receipt and confirmation of the rest of the deposit being transferred.
I'd also let the PRTB know, they might be able to help in dealing with him.
What he charged in rent has no bearing on the situation now and is very wrong of him to throw that back on you!

_Kaiser_

Sounds like he's chancing his arm to be honest and I'd agree that what he charged in rent vs what he "should" have is irrelevant - he's just trying to tell you that "you got off lightly with him and so shouldn't complain about the bill".
Another cowboy really. Your only option is to go through the PRTB (time consuming) or try and chase him until he hands over your deposit.

When I moved in to my current place it hadn't been cleaned and it's now in better shape than I found it, but when I move out I'll be telling the Estate Agent to meet me there on the last day with the deposit and to check whatever they want to before I hand them back the keys.

athtrasna

Have you asked for a copy of the invoice? You are entitled to one

Pkiernan

Anyone who thinks 300 euro to have a family house professionally cleaned is excessive doesn't have a clue what they're talking about.
Cop on.

OP you are entitled to a receipt for the cleaning work. You have the right to open an RTB case if you feel the landlord is not honest or over charging you. If he does not provide a receipt he must return the deposit.
One thing to think about is that your obligation for notice is considerably more than 1 month based on your tenancy of 3.5 years.

_Kaiser_

Pkiernan wrote: »

Anyone who thinks 300 euro to have a family house professionally cleaned is excessive doesn't have a clue what they're talking about.
Cop on.

OP you are entitled to a receipt for the cleaning work. You have the right to open an RTB case if you feel the landlord is not honest or over charging you. If he does not provide a receipt he must return the deposit.
One thing to think about is that your obligation for notice is considerably more than 1 month based on your tenancy of 3.5 years.

You're assuming that the 1 month wasn't mutually agreed. The OP could also lodge a complaint about the unannounced visits too if they wanted - see how it works?

Also cleaning bill regardless, the LL should have already returned the rest of the deposit at least.

Now the OP has no receipt for this cleaning (which is probably meaningless anyway unless it was a professional verifiable outfit rather than the LL/their relatives or someone cleaning houses themselves), no deposit, and an uphill battle to get them.

No wonder that many tenants keep the last month instead. It may not be the "right"/legal thing but in our pretty much wild west rental sector (where reality often overrules any supposed rules for both tenants and LL's) it's not surprising either, and until we as a country get serious about making renting a long term viable option rather than something to endure on the road to ownership it won't change much either.

Shop40

Thanks very much for the replies.
Pkiernan, one month notice is what was required by our contract.
Athrasna, we have asked for a copy of the invoice, which he said he'd email to me a week ago but no sign of it!

My cousin is a solicitor, I'm wondering would a letter from him be as effective as going to the Prtb?

athtrasna

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

No wonder that many tenants keep the last month instead. It may not be the "right"/legal thing

There's no may about it! We can only work with the laws we have. Withholding rent may seem right but it is not legal.

_Kaiser_

athtrasna wrote: »

There's no may about it! We can only work with the laws we have. Withholding rent may seem right but it is not legal.

Maybe not.. but neither is withholding a tenant's deposit without (verifiable) cause.. as I said, in Ireland what happens in reality often outweighs legislation .. but that's not just in regards to tenancies either.

_Kaiser_

Shop40 wrote: »

Thanks very much for the replies.
Pkiernan, one month notice is what was required by our contract.
Athrasna, we have asked for a copy of the invoice, which he said he'd email to me a week ago but no sign of it!

My cousin is a solicitor, I'm wondering would a letter from him be as effective as going to the Prtb?

Have you followed up with him since last week? By phone calls.. not just emails or texts?

If so and he hasn't responded then I'd guess you're going to have to escalate it anyway unless he has a valid reason why he hasn't gotten back to you.

Shop40

Hi Kaiser,
he usually doesn't answer the phone and I was lucky I got him last week. The first two weeks I was calling and leaving voicemails and getting nowhere.
I thought texting might be a good move as at least there is a trail of my communication.

SarahS2013

Pkiernan wrote: »

Cop on.

Wooow less of the passive aggression there dude :rolleyes:

Hence why I asked how big the house is. OP also doesn't state the level of cleaning that was done. You can get 3 hours of cleaning with Hassle for €15 an hour. Now if you're talking about specialist cleaning, shampooing carpets, dry cleaning curtains etc of course your €300 would be absorbed in no time. But the OP doesn't state that either.

No need to be having a pop at other people when in fact none of us have the complete facts!

Over & out

Shop40

SarahS2013 wrote: »

OP also doesn't state the level of cleaning that was done. You can get 3 hours of cleaning with Hassle for €15 an hour. Now if you're talking about specialist cleaning, shampooing carpets, dry cleaning curtains etc of course your €300 would be absorbed in no time. But the OP doesn't state that either.

Didn't mean to withhold information Sarah! No carpets, just wooden floors and no curtains, just wooden blinds.

Shop40

Thanks all for the help. I will pursue the receipt for cleaning and ask my cousin to prepare a letter.

nicol

There is no way that you should have to pay to have the place professionally cleaned. You say that you left the place clean bar one room and an oven, the LL cannot expect the place to be spotless after 3.5 years of a family living there, especially not to a 'professional' standard.

There is also the fact that the LL can claim cleaning expenses that they should absorb as expenses and offset it against tax on the rental income.

If I were you I would be asking for the full deposit amount back from the LL and tell them to cover the cleaning expenses themselves. If this isn't forthcoming them open a PRTB case.

Shop40 wrote: »

Hi,
Looking for advice please.
My situation is my family and I moved out of our rented house a few weeks ago. We were there for 3.5 years.

Rent was paid up in full, we gave the required one month notice in writing and all bills settled on departure.

Gave the house a good clean upstairs, and the living room downstairs but the oven and utility area needed more of a scrub. Not trying to make excuses, but only to explain, one of my kids has extra needs and it was very difficult to get the time to give the place as good a clean as I wanted to.

Fast forward and the landlord says he is keeping half our deposit. He says he got a cleaning company in, 3 people, at a cost of 300 euro. I told him most of the house was clean and he said "well I didn't check the whole house."

He also told me that people were always telling him he should have increased the rent but he didn't because we were good tenants.

He said he would forward by email a receipt for the cleaning. That was a week ago and still no sign of it, nor the rest of my deposit.

Is he in the right?

He is selling a small commercial property he owns next door and did mention shortly before we moved out that it was "left in a mess" by previous tenant, too filthy to put the pics up on a property website. I'm wondering if he got this cleaned too (on us)!

He was a nice enough guy and is registered as a landlord. Only annoying thing was that he used to turn up at the door without any notice but it didn't happen much. I'm a bit surprised by all this to be honest.

Any thoughts would be most welcome,
thanks.

JeffKenna

I actually went through something similar with my old landlord. Decided to keep 500 deposit for no apparent reason. My first advise would be to lodge a complaint with the PRTB. I think it's 15 euro but might as well get the ball rolling now. Secondly I don't actually think that cleaning is a legitimate reason to withhold a deposit for? Regardless of receipts for cleaning I would be looking for the full amount back.

Grumpypants

JeffKenna wrote: »

I actually went through something similar with my old landlord. Decided to keep 500 deposit for no apparent reason. My first advise would be to lodge a complaint with the PRTB. I think it's 15 euro but might as well get the ball rolling now. Secondly I don't actually think that cleaning is a legitimate reason to withhold a deposit for? Regardless of receipts for cleaning I would be looking for the full amount back.

Had the same myself after 3+ years at a house. Left it in spotless condition. Landlord came inspected and was happy. Chased him for 2 months after leaving with different replies, ill lodge it to your bank, im in england this week, ill post you a cheque.

Got fed up at the 3 month point and lodged a claim with the PRTB who were brilliant. Guy rang and went through everything, was really nice and mediated the claim.


Got 500 of the 600 back.

pc7

I got hassle in after my last tenants and they were happy to pay (was only a small amount). They knew themselves they'd left it fairly manky. But I didn't take the piss just got it cleaned and charged them that from the deposit, everyone was happy cause they weren't going to clean it.

Satriale

Grumpypants wrote: »

Had the same myself after 3+ years at a house. Left it in spotless condition. Landlord came inspected and was happy. Chased him for 2 months after leaving with different replies, ill lodge it to your bank, im in england this week, ill post you a cheque.

Got fed up at the 3 month point and lodged a claim with the PRTB who were brilliant. Guy rang and went through everything, was really nice and mediated the claim.


Got 500 of the 600 back.

Why only 500 when you left it spotless and landlord was happy?

Grumpypants

Satriale wrote: »

Why only 500 when you left it spotless and landlord was happy?

Yeah he was happy but we moved and he never lodged it into my account. Silly i know but we had gotten on so well i didnt think he would turn.

Then after chasing him for 3 months he suddenly had a list of things he had to "clean" when the PRTB rang him. Including the lawn needed to be cut. Yes thats right after leaving the house empty for 3 months the lawn was over grown !

He offered 200 first then 400. Prtb advised i could get it all via court but it would cost 80 euro to lodge a claim, include a day off and driving there so i said id take 500 if he paid within 7 days just to close it out.

The_Conductor

SarahS2013 wrote: »

How big was the house? €300 seems very excessive, I'd be on to him several times a day until he can provide you with a receipt and confirmation of the rest of the deposit being transferred.
I'd also let the PRTB know, they might be able to help in dealing with him.
What he charged in rent has no bearing on the situation now and is very wrong of him to throw that back on you!

I just paid 400 to have a 2 bed apartment cleaned in Galway city.
300 is far from unreasonable- its actually very competitive- for a professional cleaning.

OP- you're entitled to a copy of the invoice- however, by your own admission the place wasn't left in a reasonable state- and professional cleaners aren't going to just do the oven and the fridge (or just the kitchen)- it tends to be the whole property..........

You're entitled to a copy of the invoice- however, it sounds legitimate from the little you've imparted thus far.

newacc2015

nicol wrote: »

There is no way that you should have to pay to have the place professionally cleaned. You say that you left the place clean bar one room and an oven, the LL cannot expect the place to be spotless after 3.5 years of a family living there, especially not to a 'professional' standard.

There is also the fact that the LL can claim cleaning expenses that they should absorb as expenses and offset it against tax on the rental income.

If I were you I would be asking for the full deposit amount back from the LL and tell them to cover the cleaning expenses themselves. If this isn't forthcoming them open a PRTB case.

Explain to me why a tenant who walks into a clean house should be entitled to leave that house dirty? Irish tenants have no idea how to clean a property. I have seen tenants thinking emptying the bins and washing the floors counts as cleaning the house. Why should OP's LL have to go in there and scrub the place as the last tenant didnt do it particularly with 3.5 years dirt?

Your partly incorrect about the tax write off. It is tax neutral. The landlord is keeping the deposit meaning he has to pay tax on it. The cleaning is an expense and therefore a tax write ie the LL is no better off

Why should the LL have the landlord have to pay for the cleaning out of his own pocket as OP didnt do it? You break the landlord property, you pay for it. You dont clean his property you should also have to pay for it. I dont any reason in your point why OP shouldnt have to pay or than he just shouldnt

I was OP I would say to the LL I know I didnt clean the house properly, met me half way on the cleaning charges

Mrs OBumble

Shop40 wrote: »

Thanks very much for the replies.
Pkiernan, one month notice is what was required by our contract.

Your contract is irrelevant, neither you or the LL is entitled to contract out of the legal requirements.

Since you were there for 3.5 years, you were required to give 56 days notice, in writing.

Once you have given notice, there is an option for you and the LL to mutually agree a shorter period. But this cannot be agreed beforehand (eg at the start of the tenancy), only when notice is given.



On the cleaning front, if a house has been occupied by small children for 3.5 years, I would expect that it to need a deep clean, not just a good clean from a busy parent. Most parents become immune to even seeing the level of dirt that kids can generate.

Shop40

The_Conductor wrote: »

You're entitled to a copy of the invoice- however, it sounds legitimate from the little you've imparted thus far.

Ha! Sorry but had to smile at the patronisation!

Ok thanks all. Good to hear of others experiences etc and some really good advice earlier on today.

Onthefence

newacc2015 wrote: »

Explain to me why a tenant who walks into a clean house should be entitled to leave that house dirty? Irish tenants have no idea how to clean a property. I have seen tenants thinking emptying the bins and washing the floors counts as cleaning the house. Why should OP's LL have to go in there and scrub the place as the last tenant didnt do it particularly with 3.5 years dirt?

OT but I have rented three houses in two other countries. In the first, repainting the small one bed house before the deposit was returned was part of the
contract. In the second, the carpets had to be proFessionally cleaned and the receipt furnished. In the third, our deposit was withheld until every single fly poo was removed from the white ceilings - 9 - with sugar soap. I've rented many places in Ireland and the standards are nowhere near what I've seen overseas!

Shop40

Mods can you please close this thread?
Came on here to get advice which I did, but some posts are getting offensive. See last post.

The_Conductor

Sure- no probs.

Thread closed.