Entitled to see agent's inspection report

Red Alert

I am a tenant in a managed property, where I deal only with the agent. This compares rather unfavorably to my last two places, where I dealt directly with two very good landlords, on the minor occasion when something needed attention.

The agent recently conducted an inspection of the property where I live, which I have no problem with in principle. A number of photos were taken. Am I entitled to see the report that was furnished to the landlord, perhaps under the banner of data protection?

Michael D Not Higgins

I very much doubt it. Someone with more legal leanings than I may be able to shed light on the issue but I think the data protection element would only cover identifying information about you. If the agent took a picture of a letter with personal details on it then you'd have something to complain about, but just taking pictures of the condition of the property would not come under data protection.

Red Alert

Yea, that's what I thought alright, thanks! What about the situation where some of my own personal property may be on view?

Michael D Not Higgins

Red Alert wrote: »

Yea, that's what I thought alright, thanks! What about the situation where some of my own personal property may be on view?

That's not identifiable information from the data protection act. If there is personal information you don't want in the pictures, I'd suggest putting it away before the inspection takes place.

Red Alert

Cheers for the info!

Ms Doubtfire1

did they ask permission to take the pics?

Slydice

Yeah you're definitely entitled to see it. Personal data is anything can be connected to you:
https://www.dataprotection.ie/docs/Data-Protection-Acts-1988-and-2003:-Informal-Consolidation/796.htm

"personal data" means data relating to a living individual who is or can be identified either from the data or from the data in conjunction with other information that is in, or is likely to come into, the possession of the data controller;

You live in the place. They know it's you. They know it's your place. You know it, they know it. Everyone that knows you and that you live there connects you with your place. It's your personal data.

So, then let's look at dataprotections guide to your rights:
https://www.dataprotection.ie/docs/A-guide-to-your-rights-Plain-English-Version/r/858.htm

Look at: 3. Right to access your personal details

You can also ask the data controller to inform you of any opinions given about you, unless the data controller considers that the opinions are confidential. Even in such cases, your right to such information will usually be greater than the right of the person who gave this opinion in private

Red Alert

Ms Doubtfire1 wrote: »

did they ask permission to take the pics?

Yes, but they had asked and taken them before I really had any time to think about it. Should have asked directly how securely they were going to store them I guess..

& thank you Slydice.

Mrs OBumble

As a LL of a place where photos are taken once a quarter - I would have no problem sharing the photos with you.

Have you tried asking the agent for a copy of them?

Red Alert

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

As a LL of a place where photos are taken once a quarter - I would have no problem sharing the photos with you.

Have you tried asking the agent for a copy of them?

I'm going to alight, but I just wanted to know where I stood on them. I've had a few prickly dealings this agent before in relation to a previous let's deposit, where the landlord himself had to convince them that certain damage was pre-existing!

starshine1234

The photos of your house are your personal data in this case, and are covered by Data Protection.

The photos of a house interior displayed on Daft for example may not be anybody's personal data as viewers of the Daft website, and Daft itself, have no way of identifying who lives in that particular house.

However, in your case, the people who hold the photos do know that you live there and therefore the photos are personal information.


You can ask the company what their purpose is in taking the photos. I'd be interested in seeing the reply to that question as it seems excessive to me to take photos of the inside of someones house.

You can ask the company how long do they intend to keep the photos for?
Do they have a purpose which requires them to take the photos, and to keep the photos, as they want to?

I think that it's excessive for them to take photos of your house unless they can give a good reason. If something isn't broken for example then I can't think of a reason to photograph it.


Personal information must be fairly obtained. That means you must have been asked for consent, and if you asked for their reason they must have a reason and they must be prepared to give you that reason. That reason must be genuine and not excessive. If they could complete their purpose without taking the photos then I feel the photos are excessive.

In my opinion an inspection doesn't require the taking of photos and it may well be that taking photos is an excessive use of personal information.

starshine1234

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

As a LL of a place where photos are taken once a quarter - I would have no problem sharing the photos with you.

Have you tried asking the agent for a copy of them?

I don't feel that taking photos every three months can be justified unless the photos show something of importance.

It does depend on the photos, and on what they're showing, and the invasiveness of the photos, and on whether the tenant has given informed consent.

I wouldn't consider a term in a lease to be informed consent.

Is there an expiry date on your purpose?
Are the photos deleted when the tenant leaves, and all appeal dates have passed?



I think photos can only be taken when they show something of importance, such as damaged items. Photos can be taken at start of lease to show starting position, and at end of lease, to show finishing position. But personal items shouldn't appear in either of those photo sets.

I don't feel any photos should be taken mid lease unless the photos are documenting something of importance, like broken items, or improper use of items, or excessive wear and tear.

Mrs OBumble

starshine1234 wrote: »

I don't feel that taking photos every three months can be justified unless the photos show something of importance.

It does depend on the photos, and on what they're showing, and the invasiveness of the photos, and on whether the tenant has given informed consent.

I wouldn't consider a term in a lease to be informed consent.

Is there an expiry date on your purpose?
Are the photos deleted when the tenant leaves, and all appeal dates have passed?



I think photos can only be taken when they show something of importance, such as damaged items. Photos can be taken at start of lease to show starting position, and at end of lease, to show finishing position. But personal items shouldn't appear in either of those photo sets.

I don't feel any photos should be taken mid lease unless the photos are documenting something of importance, like broken items, or improper use of items, or excessive wear and tear.

"Informed consent" is not provided by a term on the lease??? What would it take in your opinion?

FWIW, my property is overseas. Quarterly photos is a standard part of my property manager's procedures, for both local and international landlords. I'm confident that they manage the photos professionally - in the same way that they manage other personal data collected while vetting potential tenants and managing the tenancy (including credit and reference checking).

As the company have proven to me that they do actively manage the property, I've become less likely to even bother looking at the photos myself. But I'm glad that they're taken and kept, because they do provide a good benchmark as to what is reasonable wear and tear over time, and what is one-off damage.

Obviously with your feelings, you would never become a tenant of mine. I think that this probably suits us both very nicely.

starshine1234

You haven't explained why photos are necessary, beyond saying that it's a standard part of your property manager's procedures.

Why is it a standard part of your property manager's procedures?

If the house isn't in Ireland the Irish DP act may not apply. But in Ireland it would apply I feel, and no-one has yet been able to justify taking photos mid lease, where there is no damage to document.


My issue with the term in the lease is that it is somewhat coercive. People tend to sign leases without fully considering the implications. I suspect you will say this is the tenants problem but some terms in leases have been found to be unfair or unreasonably restrictive.

I feel permission should be sought at the time the photos are to be taken. When the lease is being signed the tenant isn't aware of what photos are to be taken. Therefore, they cannot give informed consent for that reason alone.
Do you take photos of messy bathrooms for example?
What possible purpose could there be for that?
The tenant can't be required to clean the bathroom mid lease for the purpose of your photos. Then, if the bathroom is messy, I feel you are unreasonably invading your tenants privacy by insisting on taking photos.
I feel it's unfair to rely on a term in the lease here, in order that you can insist on taking photos of messy rooms.



Ultimitely, it comes down to the purpose for taking the photos.

I can't see a justification for taking photos of a childs bedroom for example, for no better reason than it is your procedure.

Mrs OBumble

starshine1234 wrote: »

If the house isn't in Ireland the Irish DP act may not apply. But in Ireland it would apply I feel, and no-one has yet been able to justify taking photos mid lease, where there is no damage to document.

Are you having a laugh? Irish law "may" not apply to something that happens in another country???

Frankly a grubby tenant won't make it past the initial six month tenancy: the issue will be picked up at the one-month inspection, and if it's not rectified by the three month inspection then out they go at six months.

athtrasna

Can we get back on topic please

starshine1234

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Are you having a laugh? Irish law "may" not apply to something that happens in another country???

Frankly a grubby tenant won't make it past the initial six month tenancy: the issue will be picked up at the one-month inspection, and if it's not rectified by the three month inspection then out they go at six months.

Yes, The Irish DP act MAY not apply.

Are you saying it certainly doesn't apply?
If so, you may well be wrong in some cases.

You are posting on an Irish forum. Your first post on this thread implied that you had a property in Ireland.

You appear to have some connection to Ireland. That may be enough for the Irish DP act to apply.

Have you received copies of the photos in Ireland and have you viewed the photos while located in Ireland?
If so that may allow the Irish DP act to be used.




You are free to choose your tenants but you come across as somewhat overzealous.
You would evict people for being grubby.
I said messy by the way, not grubby and there is a difference. I feel it's unfair to evict people for having messy rooms. Messy in my view can mean things like underwear on the floor, and open cupboards.
I wouldn't evict people for that, but nor would I take photos of messy rooms as I feel its un-neccessary and invasive.


I suspect that when you evict messy tenants at six months that you don't have to give a reason.



In any event, this thread is about taking un-neccessary photos in Ireland, and if that is allowed under the DP act.

athtrasna

Mod note Can you two please take it to pm, rather than continue to derail this thread.

Red Alert

starshine1234 wrote: »

But personal items shouldn't appear in either of those photo sets.

My reason for asking is partially that I do have some high-end stereo and computer equipment and would rather that it not be floating around, particularly if these photos ended up being used for re-let adverts.

Mrs OBumble

Red Alert wrote: »

My reason for asking is partially that I do have some high-end stereo and computer equipment and would rather that it not be floating around, particularly if these photos ended up being used for re-let adverts.

Fair enough. Have you asked if you can see them, and explained your concerns? Whatever about the legals, it's good relationships and pragmatism which often get the best solutions.

A professional agency will already have a set of photos that which they use for re-letting, taken the first time that they let the property.

starshine1234

Red Alert wrote: »

My reason for asking is partially that I do have some high-end stereo and computer equipment and would rather that it not be floating around, particularly if these photos ended up being used for re-let adverts.

This is why you must ask them what their purpose is when they are taking the photos. You can also ask them now.

If you haven't asked they can later use the photos for other purposes.

If they asked to take photos mid lease for the purpose of advertising the apartment I believe you could refuse permission for that purpose. That purpose is nothing to do with you and it doesn't benefit you, nor it is necessary for them to administer your tenancy. Therefore, I feel you can refuse that purpose.


As I've said, I find it difficult to justify taking photos mid lease, for any purpose, if there is nothing of importance to document.