Athiests and their confirmation names ...

Imnotthehulk

Hi ....

I'm just curious how people who have left the church think of their confirmation names.

When (if) you leave the church, do you drop the confirmation name, or do you consider it part of your identity in any way?

Pherekydes

Never use it. Almost never use my middle name, either.

I view it the same way I'd view pictures of myself as a baby or child: they're just a part of my past; they don't define me in any way now.

echolima

I've kept mine, not that I ever use it for anything official, but more so because I took my granny's name as she passed away just before my confirmation. Don't think they matter at all outside of the Christian symbolism. Even when I was Catholic I never had any need of it. If it didn't have a significant meaning to me I'd probably have forgotten mine long ago :P

TheChizler

Do Catholics use their confirmation name?

Second Toughest in_the Freshers

I go by my confirmation name, it's a name I chose myself. I dropped my Christian name...

mansize

I've never used it in 24 years

pcuser

I dont use it or know anyone that does.

InTheTrees

They asked me when I was a kid whether I wanted to be "confirmed" and I said no. That was back in the early 70's too. Protestants though so they dont take it so seriously. I've never had communion though.

Samaris

I've never been sure how legally my confirmation name is part of my identity anyway. I don't know if it's officially written down somewhere or what the story is really. It's possible I could as legitimately claim my third name is Timbuctoo.

Don't use it myself really. I already have a first name and a middle name anyway. A third Christian name is getting a bit Hapsburg.

recedite

echolima wrote: »

I've kept mine, not that I ever use it for anything official..

I don't see how you could anyway, even if you wanted to. Its only a makey-uppey name, unless you have actually changed your name "by deed poll".

recedite

I have more bad news for you as well. Remember when they said St. Peter the Bouncer was sure to let you through those pearly gates into the Paradise club?
Like...."just say you're with us, and he'll let you in for sure".
Nope.

robindch

Imnotthehulk wrote: »

When (if) you leave the church, do you drop the confirmation name, or do you consider it part of your identity in any way?

Once you've become a member of the catholic church, the church does not allow you to stop being a member - the best that they'll do is to say that you're a "non-practicing" member.

I chose a confirmation name myself, but other than an initial appearing in a certain well-known login, I haven't used it since the day I picked it.

dudara

I don't believe that I've ever used it. I rarely, if ever, use my second baptismal name. The only reason my confirmation name means anything at all is because it belonged to my grandmother.

Is the confirmation name even recorded anywhere that is state official? i.e. outside of the church registry.

looksee

I am pretty sure that confirmation names do not have any relevance at all after the confirmation. No-one has ever asked me if I even have a confirmation name (I haven't because I was not confirmed) and tbh, I could not tell you what my (adult) children's confirmation names are either.

matrim

Imnotthehulk wrote: »

Hi ....

I'm just curious how people who have left the church think of their confirmation names.

When (if) you leave the church, do you drop the confirmation name, or do you consider it part of your identity in any way?

The only time I've every used it is in answer to the question, What was your confirmation name?

As for the name, I choose Mark because it was acceptable to the priest and was the name of one of my favorite footballers at the time, Mark Bosnich

Speedwell

I am a Jewish atheist ("secular Jew"). My Jewish name is my original name. I have a secular name (indeed, I have two or three of them for different contexts). The first of my secular names is the name that appears on my government issued (=secular) birth certificate. I am not going to give up my original (Jewish) name just because it also happens to be religious; it's my "real" name, not something I acquired at a later date in a religious ceremony when I was years older. Just about nobody, except for people in my family who were adults and present when I was a newborn, know my Jewish name (or for that matter, care what it is; I'm not about to get called up to read from the Torah anytime soon given that none of my close relatives are observant either).

recedite

Speedwell wrote: »

I am a Jewish atheist ("secular Jew"). My Jewish name is my original name...

Given that its not on your birth cert or passport, it can't be used officially. And if nobody else knows what it is, then they can't call you by that name. So its really in the same realm as a confo name, despite it being allocated at a chronologically earlier time than your "secular" or real name.
Maybe people just enjoy having a hidden name at some level, like having some secret identity.

Speedwell

recedite wrote: »

Given that its not on your birth cert or passport, it can't be used officially. And if nobody else knows what it is, then they can't call you by that name. So its really in the same realm as a confo name, despite it being allocated at a chronologically earlier time than your "secular" or real name.
Maybe people just enjoy having a hidden name at some level, like having some secret identity.

Yes, very true. I think maybe I didn't make the cultural context clear. My Jewish name is my name. It is the name my parents chose and the name I was first called in the community and the name I first thought of as mine when I was small. It was given to me as a way to honor my great-grandmother, who had recently died. It is as secular as any "Mary" or "Patrick" baby name in Ireland, which is to say, it's complicated.

You are probably unaware of the Jewish cultural context of having a hidden name that Gentiles don't know. This, too, is rooted in religion but not completely religious. It's a fascinating topic for an afternoon's "instead of work" reading.

quadrifoglio verde

matrim wrote: »

The only time I've every used it is in answer to the question, What was your confirmation name?

As for the name, I choose Mark because it was acceptable to the priest and was the name of one of my favorite footballers at the time, Mark Bosnich

I chose eoin because my middle name was Michael. I would have gone with the English spelling, but the mother wouldn't allow it
The bastard left for real Madrid that summer :mad:

So nope I never use it

Avatar MIA

I think it was James, not sure though. Much thought was not put into it.

porsche boy

I've been called many things, some far worse then my confirmation name. A man is not defined by a name anyway.

Samaris

Speedwell wrote: »

I am a Jewish atheist ("secular Jew"). My Jewish name is my original name. I have a secular name (indeed, I have two or three of them for different contexts). The first of my secular names is the name that appears on my government issued (=secular) birth certificate. I am not going to give up my original (Jewish) name just because it also happens to be religious; it's my "real" name, not something I acquired at a later date in a religious ceremony when I was years older. Just about nobody, except for people in my family who were adults and present when I was a newborn, know my Jewish name (or for that matter, care what it is; I'm not about to get called up to read from the Torah anytime soon given that none of my close relatives are observant either).

Not asking what your Jewish name is, ofc, just interested in the concept of it. It's given at birth/naming ceremony, much like Christian names, but held private and personal to the individual, and presumably another name is used growing up/in public life? Would they be very traditional names, or would, for instance, a baby be given a Jewish name with roots in the Torah and tradition, and also be given say, the name of a grandmother/other family name to be used in day-to-day life and honour the relative?

Edit: I don't think it really has a comparison with the Confirmation name. It's more like our given Christian name in terms of ..mhm..applying to our concepts of identity, just kept private and personal. I suppose a sooort of comparison is the Catholic tradition of naming every child Mary*, and then using the second name (i.e. Mary Constance would be known as Constance/Connie/whatever). Barring that Mary is so ubiquitous that it's hardly private

*Including some of the boys!

recedite

Speedwell wrote: »

My Jewish name is my name. It is the name my parents chose and the name I was first called in the community and the name I first thought of as mine when I was small.

Well if the name was actually used, then I accept that it would genuinely be part of your identity. If it was a Hebrew name, then in practical terms I could see that you would be given a more "normal" bland name for use in wider society, which might still give out some very vague or subtle culturally Jewish cues, such as David or Adam.

For practical reasons Chinese people often change their first name on arrival in Ireland (which is actually their last name... more complications). To something ridiculously bland. Usually when I hear it, I ask them what their real name is, which usually draws a smile.

Speedwell wrote: »

You are probably unaware of the Jewish cultural context of having a hidden name that Gentiles don't know. This, too, is rooted in religion but not completely religious. It's a fascinating topic for an afternoon's "instead of work" reading.

Yes, its true I am largely ignorant of it. But don't go telling us about it here, after all a secret is no good if every Tom, Dick, and Harry knows about it

Speedwell

Samaris wrote: »

Not asking what your Jewish name is, ofc, just interested in the concept of it. It's given at birth/naming ceremony, much like Christian names, but held private and personal to the individual, and presumably another name is used growing up/in public life? Would they be very traditional names, or would, for instance, a baby be given a Jewish name with roots in the Torah and tradition, and also be given say, the name of a grandmother/other family name to be used in day-to-day life and honour the relative?

Edit: I don't think it really has a comparison with the Confirmation name. It's more like our given Christian name in terms of ..mhm..applying to our concepts of identity, just kept private and personal. I suppose a sooort of comparison is the Catholic tradition of naming every child Mary*, and then using the second name (i.e. Mary Constance would be known as Constance/Connie/whatever). Barring that Mary is so ubiquitous that it's hardly private

*Including some of the boys!

Heh, you don't know me at all, so if I told you my Jewish name was "Sarah" it would not actually be telling you anything. My birth certificate name is a cross-language diminutive (similar to if a girl named "Sofia" in Russian were to be called not "Sophia" in English, but "Sophie"). The name I commonly go by among most of the people who know me now is a nickname that got stuck to me in a college language class, because we were all freshmen who didn't know anyone by their actual names, lol.

The Jewish name is normally Biblical, even if the baby is named after a relative rather than directly after a Torah figure, and there are certain other rules (such as not to name a baby after a person considered a bastard or an unrepentant malefactor according to Jewish law, or in some traditions, after people who lived before Abraham). Since Jewish law is partly a pastime meant to amuse and entertain rabbinical lawyers, these laws usually derive from other laws that are nitpicky and farfetched interpretations of Torah verses, heh. In some of the mystical and Kabbalistic traditions, the name is the soul is the fate, and you can actually change your fate by changing or adding to your Jewish name. This explains some of the superstition behind letting other people know your private name.

Most commonly a secular name would be related to or begin with the same letter as the Jewish name... my grandmother's brother was named "Moshe" (Moses), but his secular and professional name was "Maurice". These days the "Jewish name" is used in a secular context if the person and their family feel like it; in other families it's used within the family or among co-religionists and the secular name is used for Gentiles; in other families it's really only used for "official" religious purposes like at bar or bat mitzvahs, weddings, funerals, and so forth. Clearly since all the closest members of my family are also atheists, it's a holdover that we use for exactly nothing.

Avatar MIA

Interesting. Didn't know that about Jewish culture.

rainbow kirby

My confirmation name is Catherine, same as my mother and grandmother, but I've literally never used it since I got oil-smudged on a sunny spring morning 20 years ago.

lazygal

recedite wrote: »

Given that its not on your birth cert or passport, it can't be used officially. And if nobody else knows what it is, then they can't call you by that name. So its really in the same realm as a confo name, despite it being allocated at a chronologically earlier time than your "secular" or real name.
Maybe people just enjoy having a hidden name at some level, like having some secret identity.

Names in Ireland are based on common usage, not whatever your birth cert or current passport states. Anyone can begin using a new first or surname at any time (eg some people change names on marriage or divorce) and once you have a certain level of documentation, that is your legal name. My mother uses a name totally different to her birth cert, as do almost all her siblings.

Samaris

lazygal wrote: »

Names in Ireland are based on common usage, not whatever your birth cert or current passport states. Anyone can begin using a new first or surname at any time (eg some people change names on marriage or divorce) and once you have a certain level of documentation, that is your legal name. My mother uses a name totally different to her birth cert, as do almost all her siblings.

I know or knew several people, generally older people that did that. My partner's parents both were called names other than their given names (which caused me some confusion after being introduced ), as were a friend's parents. All of them would be in the 60s-70s region. Don't know if that's more or less common nowadays. None of the names were in any way related to their own, so not shortened names.

iguana

When I was with my first boyfriend I decided that if we ever got married I'd use my confirmation name but swap the order of it and my middle name because then my initials could be A B C D. And when I was bored in class I'd scrawl that name on the back of my books. That is the extent of the use I have had for my confirmation name.

You don't have to take a name for your confirmation, I didn't.
My Mam didn't give any if us christening names either so we are all ' first name then surname'
Don't see the point in having names you don't use

recedite

lazygal wrote: »

Names in Ireland are based on common usage, not whatever your birth cert or current passport states. Anyone can begin using a new first or surname at any time (eg some people change names on marriage or divorce) and once you have a certain level of documentation, that is your legal name. My mother uses a name totally different to her birth cert, as do almost all her siblings.

Not sure what documentation you are talking about, if not the birth cert and passport. Sure, you can have photo ID on a driving licence, but to get that you need the passport ID first.
Your mother can call herself whatever she wants, but if she wants to get on a plane or get a driving license she will have to go back to using her original name. If she wants to change her name properly, it can be done by deed poll.
Married surnames can be used obviously if the person has been registered as being in a marriage.

lazygal

recedite wrote: »

Not sure what documentation you are talking about, if not the birth cert and passport. Sure, you can have photo ID on a driving licence, but to get that you need the passport ID first.
Your mother can call herself whatever she wants, but if she wants to get on a plane or get a driving license she will have to go back to using her original name. If she wants to change her name properly, it can be done by deed poll.
Married surnames can be used obviously if the person has been registered as being in a marriage.

My mother's passport is in the name she uses, which is different to her birth cert name. Years of bills and official state documents mean her birth name is now irrelevant. The only reason so go the deed poll route is to eliminate the time for common usage to build up. Otherwise start using whatever name you fancy and that's now your name.

recedite

lazygal wrote: »

My mother's passport is in the name she uses, which is different to her birth cert name.

Fair enough. Her official name is the one on the passport. I didn't say that you can never move on from your birth cert name.

LilRedDorcha

I chose mine so that it would be my grandmother's name, since my middle name was the same as my other grandmother. I still never use it. Like other posters, the only time I've ever used it was when I was asked what my confirmation name was.

donspeekinglesh

I think I chose Peter, because it was the first saint's name that popped into my head. Or maybe it was Paul. Can't remember, but I know I've never used it since.

intheclouds

recedite wrote: »

Not sure what documentation you are talking about, if not the birth cert and passport. Sure, you can have photo ID on a driving licence, but to get that you need the passport ID first.
Your mother can call herself whatever she wants, but if she wants to get on a plane or get a driving license she will have to go back to using her original name. If she wants to change her name properly, it can be done by deed poll.
Married surnames can be used obviously if the person has been registered as being in a marriage.

All you have to show is usage for the name to become legal. Documentation like membership of a club, medical documents etc.... No need for deed poll in this country at all.

I only discovered after her death that my mothers name was not what we all thought it was.

Turned out the nuns in school "gaelic-ised" her given name and then she became known by the new name, it was on her passport, her marriage cert etc...

Its a shame because her given name was far nicer and more unusual than the "Irishey" one the nuns chose.

recedite

intheclouds wrote: »

Turned out the nuns in school "gaelic-ised" her given name and then she became known by the new name, it was on her passport, her marriage cert etc...

Fair enough, again that became her official name.
A name that is different to the one on these documents is not the person's official name. Like for example, a confirmation name or a nickname. I'm not saying that such names can never become the official name though. Common usage over a long time, or by deed poll for a quicker change, and then subsequently you would update the passport.

intheclouds

recedite wrote: »

Fair enough, again that became her official name.
A name that is different to the one on these documents is not the person's official name. Like for example, a confirmation name or a nickname. I'm not saying that such names can never become the official name though. Common usage over a long time, or by deed poll for a quicker change, and then subsequently you would update the passport.

No thats not true actually.

You can have more than one "official" name in Ireland (I myself have 2). My passport is in one name and my drivers licence is in another. I have bank accounts in both names. Either is my legal name. I can prove usage in both.

recedite

Assuming we are not talking about English and Irish versions of the name here, how did you prove your ID when applying for the drivers license? Did you not show your passport?

Hotblack Desiato

You don't need a passport to get a driving licence, residency is a requirement not citizenship.

iguana

recedite wrote: »

Not sure what documentation you are talking about, if not the birth cert and passport. Sure, you can have photo ID on a driving licence, but to get that you need the passport ID first.
Your mother can call herself whatever she wants, but if she wants to get on a plane or get a driving license she will have to go back to using her original name. If she wants to change her name properly, it can be done by deed poll.
Married surnames can be used obviously if the person has been registered as being in a marriage.

That's wrong. If you decide that from now on your name is Sofa McJammcoinpants and start calling yourself that name and use that name on official documents of any kind, with your GP, at the dentist, register that name on your Virgin Media bill, etc. After two years you can take that documentation and use it to apply/reapply for your driving license and passport and are legally entitled to have them issued in that name. Our law states that any name you choose and use is the name that you can be legally known as.

intheclouds

recedite wrote: »

Assuming we are not talking about English and Irish versions of the name here, how did you prove your ID when applying for the drivers license? Did you not show your passport?

No, single and married names.

I sent in my marriage cert to renew drivers licence. I sent in old passport to renew passport.

It suits me to keep my single name professionally as all my academic qualifications are in it.

But socially I use my married name.

I have signed legal docs in either depending on the situation (all my medical stuff is in my married name but most bank accounts, revenue etc are in my single name).

Most importantly I can lodge a cheque to either!

recedite

Yes, but then Sofa McJammcoinpants supersedes whatever your previous official name was. I could be wrong, but I doubt it is fully legal to have two different official sanctioned names at the same time (possibly excluding Irish versions which in theory are versions of the same name)
It may be possible to have two different identities on the go, with their own bank accounts and even different PPS numbers. But what you can get away with and what you are supposed to do, are two different things.

recedite

intheclouds wrote: »

No, single and married names.

OK you got me there

intheclouds

recedite wrote: »

Yes, but then Sofa McJammcoinpants supersedes whatever your previous official name was. I could be wrong, but I doubt it is fully legal to have two different official sanctioned names at the same time (possibly excluding Irish versions which in theory are versions of the same name)
It may be possible to have two different identities on the go, with their own bank accounts and even different PPS numbers. But what you can get away with and what you are supposed to do, are two different things.

I think the point that Im making (badly) is that one "official" name only is not enforced in Ireland. A person can have numerous different names that they "go by". The relationship between identity and names in Ireland is a one to many relationship.

You often see it in crime reports that people are "also known as". Actually you often see it in obituaries too.

wench

recedite wrote: »

Yes, but then Sofa McJammcoinpants supersedes whatever your previous official name was. I could be wrong, but I doubt it is fully legal to have two different official sanctioned names at the same time

You are wrong

Only changing by deed poll means you must stop using the previous name. If you just change by use, then it is fine to maintain both as long as there is no intention to deceive.

I no longer go by my birth name, and my passport is in my new name. It lists my previous name on the notes page, under "Also Known As", so I can travel as either name.