cctv monitoring

jmg90

Hi guys wondering if i cud get sum advice on this. I work in a butchers/deli shop. I work the deli side. My boss is constanly watchn cameras i am 2 years working there he has shop full of cameras behind my counter where i work constanly lookn down at me just the other day he pulled me on sumtn he seen on camera and showed me it on a laptop and the effort he had ta go to ta get it was unreal for the most silliyest thing. He is constanly pickn things out on another member of staff in the butcher department. I work alongside the boses wife in the deli and its worst feeln ever afraid of doing things wrong every day i go into work there sumtn i didnt do right there no pleasing her you cant leave a single crumb in the deli or there b trouble. ive cooked in a busy hotel before and she tinks she knows it all. This constant monitoring is making me very uncomfortable in my job now watchn every single thing i do. Wen he goes away for a weekend or leaves the shop hes watchn us on his mobile phone he has cameras in shop setup to fone. I wudnt say a bank has as many cameras. Can anyone tell me is this constant monitoring allowed. Thanks in advance. ☺
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Mrs OBumble

Yes, provided he's told you that he's doing it, and what for.

And to be fair, it sounds like you have a problem with meeting hygiene standards, and need the supervision Do your job properly, and he won't have anything to complain about and will likely back off needing to watch you.

jmg90

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Yes, provided he's told you that he's doing it, and what for.

And to be fair, it sounds like you have a problem with meeting hygiene standards, and need the supervision Do your job properly, and he won't have anything to complain about and will likely back off needing to watch you.

Thanks for your advice. After chefing in a kitchen for 3 years and hav my certs i am well aware of hygiene.

Alcoheda

I'd be looking for another job, those guys sound like cnuts

drunkmonkey

jmg90 wrote: »

Thanks for your advice. After chefing in a kitchen for 3 years and hav my certs i am well aware of hygiene.

They don't think so, if there was no worries with you he'd be bored of looking. Do above what they expect and they'll soon know to trust you.

There's very few deli counters i've walked into and thought that's a really clean place and well trained staff, i've often just taking the food and thrown in the bin.

Is it a butchers and deli, I honesty don't think these should be allowed together.

Rachiee

drunkmonkey wrote: »

They don't think so, if there was no worries with you he'd be bored of looking. Do above what they expect and they'll soon know to trust you.

Not necessarily some people are just micro managers constant surveillance is ridiculous id be looking for a new job theres no changing people like that and its a really negative work environment.

El Chapo

drunkmonkey wrote: »

They don't think so, if there was no worries with you he'd be bored of looking. Do above what they expect and they'll soon know to trust you.

There's very few deli counters i've walked into and thought that's a really clean place and well trained staff, i've often just taking the food and thrown in the bin.

Is it a butchers and deli, I honesty don't think these should be allowed together.

No, you haven't. Stop talking bullsh*t.

Mrs OBumble

Rachiee wrote: »

Not necessarily some people are just micro managers constant surveillance is ridiculous id be looking for a new job theres no changing people like that and its a really negative work environment.

Most so called "micro-managers" behave that way for a reason. Don't give them reason to do so, and they'll soon enough find better things to be doing with their time.

Just because someone has certs doesn't mean they're going to apply what they know without supervision.

In a place that retails both raw and cooked meats, hygiene is more important than ever. Management need to be totally on top of things.

harvester of sorrow

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Yes, provided he's told you that he's doing it, and what for.

And to be fair, it sounds like you have a problem with meeting hygiene standards, and need the supervision Do your job properly, and he won't have anything to complain about and will likely back off needing to watch you.

How did you come to that conclusion?!?!?

callaway92

jmg90 wrote: »

you cant leave a single crumb in the deli or there b trouble.
.

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

And to be fair, it sounds like you have a problem with meeting hygiene standards, and need the supervision

Are you fúcking serious Mrs OBumble????????????

happyoutscan

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

And to be fair, it sounds like you have a problem with meeting hygiene standards, and need the supervision.

Wtf are you on about?

harvester of sorrow

Tbh I don't know how you're (Mrs OBumble)allowed to be a mod on this forum.
Ridiculous

Edit: you're not a mod anymore, thank fook.

2RockMountain

All use of CCTV must be 'proportionate' - and it sounds like this is not proportionate.

https://www.dataprotection.ie/docs/CCTV/1242.htm

You could make a formal complaint to the Data Protection Commissioner if you like. Or you could look for another job. Or you could do both.

davo10

2RockMountain wrote: »

All use of CCTV must be 'proportionate' - and it sounds like this is not proportionate.

https://www.dataprotection.ie/docs/CCTV/1242.htm

You could make a formal complaint to the Data Protection Commissioner if you like. Or you could look for another job. Or you could do both.

When it comes to food hygiene it would be a tough ask to prove it is disproportionate. Most authorities would argue that standards in food preparation can not be high enough in order to protect the public.

It does sound like there is overbearing micromanagement going on, possibly due to a previous FSAI bad assessment or fear of being badly assessed if there is a visit out of the blue. It's an oppressive work situation particularly if the boss's wife is also there looking on so it might be time for op to find a better place to work.

drunkmonkey

El Chapo wrote: »

No, you haven't. Stop talking bullsh*t.

Yes I have:p Last time was in centra, girl cleaning, then handled raw chicken, then made me a roll, all with the same gloves. Threw that straight in bin. Some deli staff are f'n disgusting.

2RockMountain

davo10 wrote: »

When it comes to food hygiene it would be a tough ask to prove it is disproportionate. Most authorities would argue that standards in food preparation can not be high enough in order to protect the public.

It does sound like there is overbearing micromanagement going on, possibly due to a previous FSAI bad assessment or fear of being badly assessed if there is a visit out of the blue. It's an oppressive work situation particularly if the boss's wife is also there looking on so it might be time for op to find a better place to work.

The employee doesn't have to prove it is disproportionate. The employer has to prove that it is proportionate. If the vast majority of delis don't have this kind of supervision, it would be difficult for the employer to make a case that it is proportionate.

Mrs OBumble

harvester of sorrow wrote: »

How did you come to that conclusion?!?!?

I would have thought that was pretty obvious:

you cant leave a single crumb in the deli or there b trouble.

You betcha that when someone says "clean X" than means no crumbs left. If a deli-worker doesn't understand that, then they need some serious re-training, no matter how many certs they hold.

harvester of sorrow

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

I would have thought that was pretty obvious:



You betcha that when someone says "clean X" than means no crumbs left. If a deli-worker doesn't understand that, then they need some serious re-training, no matter how many certs they hold.

Well considering I wasn't the only one to question your statement, please,enlighten me....since its so obvious.

the_syco

jmg90 wrote: »

Hi guys wondering if i cud get sum advice on this. I work in a butchers/deli shop. I work the deli side. My boss is constanly watchn cameras i am 2 years working there he has shop full of cameras behind my counter where i work constanly lookn down at me just the other day he pulled me on sumtn he seen on camera and showed me it on a laptop and the effort he had ta go to ta get it was unreal for the most silliyest thing.

Time to look for a new job, tbh. He's not doing anything wrong, but he ain't doing it right.

jmg90 wrote: »

I work alongside the boses wife in the deli and its worst feeln ever afraid of doing things wrong every day i go into work there sumtn i didnt do right there no pleasing her you cant leave a single crumb in the deli or there b trouble.

TBH, it sounds like they got in trouble for being lax in the past. As said, get out before it drives you mad.

jmg90

Thank you everyone for your advice. The deli is seperate from the butchers its no wer near the deli. They hav a v gud reputation wit the authorities. The ones that worked there before me all left could not please them nothing you do is right. Its just hard ta find work but hopefully sumtn will turn up. Thank you guys.

davo10

2RockMountain wrote: »

The employee doesn't have to prove it is disproportionate. The employer has to prove that it is proportionate. If the vast majority of delis don't have this kind of supervision, it would be difficult for the employer to make a case that it is proportionate.

If the deli owner answers a question regarding proportionality with " We constantly moniter hygiene practices in the preperation of our foods to ensure the highest standards of customer safety", do you think they would be penalised? I think not.

2RockMountain

davo10 wrote: »

If the deli owner answers a question regarding proportionality with " We constantly moniter hygiene practices in the preperation of our foods to ensure the highest standards of customer safety", do you think they would be penalised? I think not.

They would need to have a good answer to "Why do you have CCTV monitoring that goes way beyond your industry norms?"

davo10

2RockMountain wrote: »

They would need to have a good answer to "Why do you have CCTV monitoring that goes way beyond your industry norms?"

Answer: "We take food hygiene very seriously and want to ensure the our customers are protected"

2RockMountain

davo10 wrote: »

Answer: "We take food hygiene very seriously and want to ensure the our customers are protected"

"So do your competitors, and they succeed with achieving compliance with all food safety regulations without this level of oppressive CCTV monitoring. So I'll ask you again, why do you need higher levels of CCTV monitoring than industry norms?"

You don't fool these guys with glib answers:

http://www.independent.ie/business/technology/shop-worker-sacked-for-putting-paper-bag-over-cctv-while-colleague-gave-her-new-hairdo-employers-spying-on-staff-part-of-900-data-watchdog-complaints-34819195.html

livedadream

if he owns the business he could just be uptight, to some people their businesses are their babies and they act too anal when it comes to the small things,

if you don't like it move on, its just one of those things,

and banks dont need that much CCTV on their staff as if money goes missing nobodys leaving the building until either its found or explained as an error.

Mrs OBumble

2RockMountain wrote: »

"So do your competitors, and they succeed with achieving compliance with all food safety regulations without this level of oppressive CCTV monitoring. So I'll ask you again, why do you need higher levels of CCTV monitoring than industry norms?"

The "industry norms" in some delis leave an enormous amount to be desired on the hygiene front.

Most industries with low-skill workers do have constant supervision. In larger businesses that takes the form of an on-the-floor supervisor. In smaller ones, owners montioring CCTV is very common - you'd almost say it is the norm.

ohnonotgmail

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Yes I have:p Last time was in centra, girl cleaning, then handled raw chicken, then made me a roll, all with the same gloves. Threw that straight in bin. Some deli staff are f'n disgusting.

why would you accept it in the first place?

2RockMountain

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

The "industry norms" in some delis leave an enormous amount to be desired on the hygiene front.

Most industries with low-skill workers do have constant supervision. In larger businesses that takes the form of an on-the-floor supervisor. In smaller ones, owners montioring CCTV is very common - you'd almost say it is the norm.

And yet, closure of delis is a fairly rare event. I know SFA about the deli business. If this level of CCTV monitoring is very common, then so be it. But I suspect that you're spinning to take a pro-employer position without actually knowing the facts.

ohnonotgmail

2RockMountain wrote: »

And yet, closure of delis is a fairly rare event. I know SFA about the deli business. If this level of CCTV monitoring is very common, then so be it. But I suspect that you're spinning to take a pro-employer position without actually knowing the facts.

it could also be said that you're spinning to take a anti-employer position without actually knowing the facts.

Stheno

Mod:

Can we have a bit less of the personal sniping please, and get back to advising the OP?

2RockMountain

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

it could also be said that you're spinning to take a anti-employer position without actually knowing the facts.

If you go back over my posts, you'll see I didn't take any position. I simply advised the OP on their position and how they can take the issue to an external regulator. Others rushed to judgement.