The Guardian is in trouble

ancapailldorcha

Not sure how many readers there are here but I thought I would share this. The Guardian which has a tendency to be viewed negatively in this forum has apparently been making record losses (Source).

The Economist wrote:

This hit home as the Guardian Media Group (GMG), its parent company, announced pre-tax losses of £173m ($264m) on July 27th, its biggest ever dip into the red. Some £104m of this comes from GMG writing down the value of its stake in Ascential, a publicly listed information and events company, as well as additional restructuring costs. But that still leaves GMG with a loss of £69m. And given the Guardian’s substantial presence online, the decline in GMG’s digital revenue, from £84m in 2015 to £82m, may be of most concern, even though for now the fall is slight.

The Scott Trust, GMG’s sole shareholder, is tasked with protecting the newspaper in perpetuity. But GMG’s cash and investment funds declined from £838m in 2015 to £765m this year. It is not lost on anyone, including the paper’s journalists, that the money could continue ebbing away, even raising the possibility of the Guardian closing.

Frankly, I am not surprised. The paper seems happy to push ahead with various forms of angry leftists which often villainise men while pushing ahead with the obligatory victimhood narratives for everyone else. I do read it as it is better than a lot of the alternatives but I won't be shedding any tears at its demise.

Henry94

It is now in the process of alienating the left with an unpopular stance against Corbyn. So who will buy it? Hipsters?

fits

Who owns it? And who owns what's left? Murdoch and some Russian media moguls. Say what you will about the guardian but diversity of ownership is important. It would be a big loss in the UK.

nc6000

It's a better newspaper than anything we have in Ireland.

Sharer

I agree it has a balanced, fair approach towards most subjects and is one of the few papers in Britain that is not owned by highly right wing moguls. It is well written and covers most areas of interest with objectivity. Unfortunately any paper that is not right wing is in trouble the way politics and sentiment are going all over Europe and USA. The Independent already lost out.
Let us hope for balance, the Guardian lives on

Manach

The English media I'd usual read are the Telegraph and Private Eye. For the latter's sake I'd hope the Guardian continues, as its po-faced leftwing articles of intellectual bent are skewered in a most entertaining fashion by that publication.

imitation

They also demonised a lot of pro brexiters, considering it was a popular vote its probably back firing now. Its pity because considering how controlling and manipulative the uk media it is it was at least a counterpoint.

marienbad

It would be a huge loss , any more dilution of press ownership is just disastrous - even if you don't agree with its line .

ancapailldorcha

fits wrote: »

Who owns it? And who owns what's left? Murdoch and some Russian media moguls. Say what you will about the guardian but diversity of ownership is important. It would be a big loss in the UK.

It's owned by the Guardian Media Group which in turn is owned by the Scott Trust Ltd. There's still diversity of opinion with the Morning Star, the Independent, the Huffington Post, the New Statesman, etc...

marienbad

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

It's owned by the Guardian Media Group which in turn is owned by the Scott Trust Ltd. There's still diversity of opinion with the Morning Star, the Independent, the Huffington Post, the New Statesman, etc...

with a combined circulation of less than 200k and, excluding the Guardian, a tiny online presence . While you are at it you might as well throw in The London Review of Books and other such publications .

The danger is that with such small numbers they are just preaching to the converted , which makes the Guardian even more vital .

jimmynokia

Who buys newspapers.

marienbad

jimmynokia wrote: »

Who buys newspapers.

About 10,000,000 people a day in the UK - how many households is that ?

silverharp

I dont read it but the articles that get tossed around are normally Bindel and Valenti making it a feminist fast breeder reactor

BoJack Horseman

They can count their lucky stars they are offshored in the Cayman Islands avoiding tax!

GMG would be in a much worse state if it was not.

ancapailldorcha

marienbad wrote: »

with a combined circulation of less than 200k and, excluding the Guardian, a tiny online presence . While you are at it you might as well throw in The London Review of Books and other such publications .

The danger is that with such small numbers they are just preaching to the converted , which makes the Guardian even more vital .

The Independent's current circulation is about double the Guardian's (Source). There's also the BBC which surpasses almost every other media outlet and is free. It's not a newspaper per se though with the proliferation of smartphones this isn't much of a problem. I'll grant that the rest are quite small but might see significant growth should the Guardian fall. Several columnists already write for them as well such as Owen Jones, Laurie Penny, etc...

Saipanne

silverharp wrote: »

I dont read it but the articles that get tossed around are normally Bindel and Valenti making it a feminist fast breeder reactor

It's just turned into a pro Islam feminist rag. Good riddance.

Water John

Pro Islam, Feminist???
Wierd combination.
Read it, but don't see that.

The_Valeyard

I used to read it. But then it went very far left and man hating.

marienbad

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

The Independent's current circulation is about double the Guardian's (Source). There's also the BBC which surpasses almost every other media outlet and is free. It's not a newspaper per se though with the proliferation of smartphones this isn't much of a problem. I'll grant that the rest are quite small but might see significant growth should the Guardian fall. Several columnists already write for them as well such as Owen Jones, Laurie Penny, etc...

I think that is the Independent on Sunday though - but even so combining all these 'independant' publications together the numbers are very small .

I agree with you re the BBC but with guaranteed Tory rule for the foreseeable future how long will that continue .

Am I alone and out of touch in thinking that one most read most of a publication over a sustained period of time to gain a proper appreciation of it ? The problem with the articles and columnists that get the most attention is that they are read in isolation and give a distorted view of the paper .

curiousoranje

Shame if it goes. Some great articles (usually 1 or 2 very well written, long read in depth articles most days) and some fantastic contributors. The app is very good compared to any other newspapers efforts too.

Funny, I'm a man and have never felt hated and I've never encountered any pro-islam stuff in their articles either. Then again I try to keep an open mind and don't think the world is out to get me!

ancapailldorcha

marienbad wrote: »

I agree with you re the BBC but with guaranteed Tory rule for the foreseeable future how long will that continue.

I don't know to be honest. People love the BBC. I'd say that it is safe enough for now.

marienbad wrote: »

Am I alone and out of touch in thinking that one most read most of a publication over a sustained period of time to gain a proper appreciation of it ? The problem with the articles and columnists that get the most attention is that they are read in isolation and give a distorted view of the paper .

I've read it on-and-off for years and when many of the columnists come out with the same claptrap over and over again then I think it's fair to say that they represent the paper's opinion. Just have a gander at the sexism thread on this forum for some of its greatest hits. Some of them are truly hateful people as well. I'd point to Julie Bindel as a great example of this.

Maguined

curiousoranje wrote: »

Shame if it goes. Some great articles (usually 1 or 2 very well written, long read in depth articles most days) and some fantastic contributors. The app is very good compared to any other newspapers efforts too.

Funny, I'm a man and have never felt hated and I've never encountered any pro-islam stuff in their articles either. Then again I try to keep an open mind and don't think the world is out to get me!

Did you read much of Jessica Valenti's articles?

Saipanne

Water John wrote: »

Pro Islam, Feminist???
Wierd combination.
Read it, but don't see that.

Really? The Islam one is more subtle, I'll say that much. But it's totally feminist these days.

AdamD

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

They can count their lucky stars they are offshored in the Cayman Islands avoiding tax!

GMG would be in a much worse state if it was not.

If they're loss making there's no benefit to being in the Caymans

ancapailldorcha

AdamD wrote: »

If they're loss making there's no benefit to being in the Caymans

They'll lose less money by avoiding tax.

AdamD

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

They'll lose less money by avoiding tax.

They'll still pay VAT etc. the only tax it'll effect is corporation tax, which they wouldn't be paying anyway as they're loss making.

jimmynokia

marienbad wrote: »

About 10,000,000 people a day in the UK - how many households is that ?

Idiots

marienbad

jimmynokia wrote: »

Idiots

Says jimmynokia ? Why are they idiots ?

fits

I'm highly dubious about the independent's owner as well. Son of a former KGB agent and attended the dinner where Gove convinced Johnson to back the leave campaign for brexit.

Elmer Blooker

The_Valeyard wrote: »

I used to read it. But then it went very far left and man hating.

Far left? Its indistinguishable from the Telegraph, Mail, Express etc these days.
Disgruntled ex Guardian readers angry at the heavy handed censorship of the comments section have set up this site.
https://off-guardian.org/about-2/

jimmynokia

marienbad wrote: »

Says jimmynokia ? Why are they idiots ?

Why spend money when there is a free app or alternative source?? Personally I have not bought a newspaper in 5 years

JJ59

The Guardian was once a great newspaper and is still needed as a progressive voice. However it devoted to much resources to the online edition and badly neglected its core product Also the move to the Berliner format was in my view a mistake Just does not work.

A paywall for the online edition is its only hope of surviving. You can't keep giving your product away for free

marienbad

jimmynokia wrote: »

Why spend money when there is a free app or alternative source?? Personally I have not bought a newspaper in 5 years

Many reasons - maybe because one paper can be read by the whole family , maybe everything is not available in the online edition , maybe to some newspapers are like certain books ,they are better read in a hard copy format .

And I haven't bought a paper in years either but I would still hate to see them go .

I am surprised that app works on your nokia:)

Beasty

AdamD wrote: »

They'll still pay VAT etc. the only tax it'll effect is corporation tax, which they wouldn't be paying anyway as they're loss making.

The owners escape CGT if they sell. That may be a moot point if they don't make a profit...

However their stance on tax avoidance by multinationals is very much at odds with their own structure.

ancapailldorcha

Beasty wrote: »

The owners escape CGT if they sell. That may be a moot point if they don't make a profit...

However their stance on tax avoidance by multinationals is very much at odds with their own structure.

Nobody will call them out on it though as everyone's playing that game. I doubt it even affects sales as people seem content to support Apple, Starbucks et al.

fits

jimmynokia wrote: »

Why spend money when there is a free app or alternative source?? Personally I have not bought a newspaper in 5 years

And people wonder why journalistic standards are falling. I recently read Conor O'Clery's memoir and wonder if that type of journalist is an endangered species.

jimmynokia

marienbad wrote: »

Many reasons - maybe because one paper can be read by the whole family , maybe everything is not available in the online edition , maybe to some newspapers are like certain books ,they are better read in a hard copy format .

And I haven't bought a paper in years either but I would still hate to see them go .

I am surprised that app works on your nokia:)

Since more people have mobiles now this is the best route to monitize themeselves.Paper format a wast,dirty and image quality is crap. Apps for the win..Even here in Ireland the same thing is happening,they have to digest all this info and re-format their business models.

Since I have around 200 Nokia devices and around 100 modern devices I have a fine choice to pick from... :pac:

marienbad

jimmynokia wrote: »

Since more people have mobiles now this is the best route to monitize themeselves.Paper format a wast,dirty and image quality is crap. Apps for the win..Even here in Ireland the same thing is happening,they have to digest all this info and re-format their business models.

Since I have around 200 Nokia devices and around 100 modern devices I have a fine choice to pick from... :pac:

No Jimmy I think the problem is much much bigger than any of that . People will just not pay for news anymore .

For a guy giving advice on the future you sure backed a winner in Nokia :pac:

ebbsy

nc6000 wrote: »

It's a better newspaper than anything we have in Ireland.

Yes it is and the sports writing is very good.

ancapailldorcha

marienbad wrote: »

No Jimmy I think the problem is much much bigger than any of that . People will just not pay for news anymore .

For a guy giving advice on the future you sure backed a winner in Nokia :pac:

Free news isn't free. It's designed to sell advertising and is compiled with this in mind. The reader is not the consumer, they are the product. The consumers are the advertisers so there is no accountability on the part of the content provider to the reader.

marienbad

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Free news isn't free. It's designed to sell advertising and is compiled with this in mind. The reader is not the consumer, they are the product. The consumers are the advertisers so there is no accountability on the part of the content provider to the reader.

Yeah we all understand that , but that just drives clickbait news rather than real news .

fits

I subscribe to the Irish times. Would consider guardian also if I had to.

Beasty

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Nobody will call them out on it though as everyone's playing that game. I doubt it even affects sales as people seem content to support Apple, Starbucks et al.

Not (quite) everyone!! Starbucks did suffer a bit due to demonstrations at a lot of UK stores. Starbucks then "agreed" to pay some more UK tax - that was actually not possible as they could only pay what was due under UK tax rules, as they had been doing all along. They have changed their commercial arrangements since and are now paying more UK tax though.

The Guardian actually doorstopped a number of Irish resident FTSE companies a few years ago and ran a negative article about companies basing themselves in Ireland for tax purposes.

Water John

Ancapaill, that is simply a Chompsky marxist analysis.

Letree

Men read newspapers too they seem to have forgotten, they have been banging out the anti men articles daily for a few years now. They shouldn't be surprised if men get a little pissed off and stop reading their paper.

Its a lesson for a lot of other papers that think the click bait feminist articles are a boon.

Water John

That point I will agree with Letree.

Joe_ Public

Letree wrote: »

Men read newspapers too they seem to have forgotten, they have been banging out the anti men articles daily for a few years now. They shouldn't be surprised if men get a little pissed off and stop reading their paper.

Its a lesson for a lot of other papers that think the click bait feminist articles are a boon.

I'm guessing you're describing the online version as opposed to the hard copy newspaper itself? I'd draw a clear distinction between the two anyway. Plus I find a lot of people - men included - are drawn to those feminist articles so they can get all outraged in the BTL section. That's my observation anyway.

I think the paper version is still pretty great, but the online section is a bit overwhelming and lowest common denominator orientated. But still seems to be a fairly successful model if traffic is the guiding principle. Though I'm not an expert on it by any means.

Jayop

Easily the best publication for UK news, World news and Football news. I read their site every day and if you don't read the opinion pieces like I don't then you won't get the supposed man hating vibe from it.

Saipanne

Jayop wrote: »

Easily the best publication for UK news, World news and Football news. I read their site every day and if you don't read the opinion pieces like I don't then you won't get the supposed man hating vibe from it.

So the man hating articles do exist, you just don't read them. No supposed about it.

Jayop

Saipanne wrote: »

So the man hating articles do exist, you just don't read them. No supposed about it.

I don't know because I don't read the section they are supposed to be in.

InTheTrees

fits wrote: »

Who owns it? And who owns what's left? Murdoch and some Russian media moguls. Say what you will about the guardian but diversity of ownership is important. It would be a big loss in the UK.

The OP says: The Scott Trust, GMG’s sole shareholder, is tasked with protecting the newspaper in perpetuity