Kids in Cafes

Smondie

Keane2baMused wrote: »

Smondie wrote: »

Noisy music in the supermarket was The example given by another poster. Ask them?

That's an example of what can effect a child with autism and Lexie is not incorrect in saying so.

Lexie wasn't incorrect to say it, but it was incorrect when you thought it was me that said it?

Keane2baMused wrote: »

What exactly do you know about autism and sensory issues?

"Noisy music" doesn't effect all children with autism.

Wigglepuppy

How much of this parenting advice - particularly in relation to children with special needs - is from actual parents/childcare professionals?

Keane2baMused

Smondie wrote: »

Lexie wasn't incorrect to say it, but it was incorrect when you thought it was me that said it?

Where did I say it was incorrect?

Jesus wept what do you want out of this thread?
I didn't see lexies comment originally I only saw yours.

My point was that there are so many other variables that can cause a meltdown that have absolutely nothing to do with noise or the supermarket. As an ASD parent and someone who has worked in disability services for years I have fair idea at this stage, I'm not just plucking thoughts out of the air and posting them in AH.

It's based on experience, not a notion.

Spanish Eyes

Child free cafes are the way to go now. I would definitely subscribe. No doubt there would be some numpty complaining under the equality legislation. But hey, I don't think children fall within that ambit.

Finding some entrepreneur brave enough to do it is the problem, and I haven't got the capital.

I make sure to book holidays to adult only places too.

At least I am consistent.

Keane2baMused

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Child free cafes are the way to go now. I would definitely subscribe. No doubt there would be some numpty complaining under the equality legislation. But hey, I don't think children fall within that ambit.

Finding some entrepreneur brave enough to do it is the problem, and I haven't got the capital.

I make sure to book holidays to adult only places too.

At least I am consistent.

That wouldn't bother me at all. In fact it's not a bad idea. Less complaints and people moaning all around so it's a win win.

goz83

Deleted User wrote: »

Reading the various posts got me thinking....

I have kids, but have always tried my best to make sure they are not annoying to anyone else.

I think they are fantastic...but appreciate not everyone does.

Anyway , lived in the U.S for a few years and over there its fair game if your kid is being a pain , and you don't get there first, for another adult to 'tick them off'.

Would seem that would be a red rag to a bull to certain aggressive posters here.

But think about it...in general, (and I stress that) Americans are more respectful. Certainly the kids don't act the maggot anyway near as much in cafes etc. It just isn't tolerated.

I honestly think we have become a very disrespectful society. One of the most shocking things I read this week was about the teen age boys who urinated on the homeless man in Dublin and laughed.

laughed????

But honestly, I think there are some posters on here who would defend their kid and excuse their kid if that did something like that.

With all due respect. If my biggest concern regarding kids is urination on anything, I will take that over kids shooting and killing their classmates and teachers....an all too regular occurrence in the states.

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Child free cafes are the way to go now. I would definitely subscribe. No doubt there would be some numpty complaining under the equality legislation. But hey, I don't think children fall within that ambit.

Finding some entrepreneur brave enough to do it is the problem, and I haven't got the capital.

I make sure to book holidays to adult only places too.

At least I am consistent.

Ah, so you like adult holidays? Now it's all adding up
I seen in AH that there's a Fellatio Cafe opening up in London in December. Sounds your your sort of thing. No kids there :cool:

Elliott S

steddyeddy wrote: »

There's some amount of hyperbole in this thread. I dislike when kids are running around in coffee shops or screaming.

This shouldn't need explaining but hating kids running up and down does not mean I hate all parents, don't understand that parents or kids might have a lot on their plate or hate special needs kids. Most kids haven't got special needs or autism and there is some parents who let their kids run amok.

Parents have a lot on their plate but so does everyone. My mother worked hard and after shopping liked to go into a small cafe for a break. Once or twice she complained about kids running up and down the cafe or screaming. Surely people who go to cafes for peace deserve that too.

If you are going to point out the hyperbole in the thread, you should probably note that it's happening on both side of the argument. According to some people here who dislike kids in cafés if a child ever misbehaves, they have bad parents. This is just silly. Every child misbehaves at some point or another and for some, that point might coincide when them being in public.

Spanish Eyes

goz83 wrote: »

With all due respect. If my biggest concern regarding kids is urination on anything, I will take that over kids shooting and killing their classmates and teachers....an all too regular occurrence in the states.



Ah, so you like adult holidays? Now it's all adding up
I seen in AH that there's a Fellatio Cafe opening up in London in December. Sounds your your sort of thing. No kids there :cool:

LOL. Try kid free places sometime, it might JUST lower you anger zone

Wigglepuppy

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Child free cafes are the way to go now. I would definitely subscribe. No doubt there would be some numpty complaining under the equality legislation. But hey, I don't think children fall within that ambit.

Finding some entrepreneur brave enough to do it is the problem, and I haven't got the capital.

I make sure to book holidays to adult only places too.

At least I am consistent.

There are plenty of cafes and restaurants in Dublin which are not officially child-free but are only frequented by adults. They are not family establishments. In fairness, a parent is very unlikely to bring their child or children into a place that does a selection of gourmet coffees and cheeses.

Spanish Eyes

Wigglepuppy wrote: »

There are plenty of cafes and restaurants in Dublin which are not officially child-free but are only frequented by adults. They are not family establishments. In fairness, a parent is very unlikely to bring their child or children into a place that does a selection of gourmet coffees and cheeses.

Are you totally DELUDED... they are exactly the places kids will be brought to in order to enhance their tastebuds at six months old or something. It's part of the package. LOL.

Has to have a BIG sign outside saying no kids. Or else I am not going there!

Sephiroth_dude

learn_more wrote: »

I like to go out for the occasional coffee either by myself or with friends. Impossible nowadays to find a cafe that doesn't have the atmosphere of a school playground or a creche.

Maybe parents live in a dream-world where they believe that other patrons are only too happy to see their little darlings re-enact world war 2 with some plastic toys they've given them. I recall a time when kids were given things to shut them up - not to give them an opportunity to make even more noise.

And visually, it's the way the really mess up their table with crumbs, straws, sweet wrappers, on the plates , on the tables, on the seats, on the ground, while their parents light up and gossip; giving the occasional roar as to give the impression their being responsible parents. Really not the type of environment a grown adult would like to spend his or her time in.

I really think cafe owners should take some responsibility for all this. It's in their interest to come to a better arrangement after all. A one kid per table policy would be reasonable and wouldn't it make financial sense to have more paying adults seated that to have low spending riff raff sullying their establishment who scare off the more desirable clientèle ! I was never taken to cafes when I was a child. And quite right too. It's just a total lack of consideration that parents have these days which is a sign of our times. Sigh.

s4uv3 wrote: »

When I open my seaside café, children under ten will not be allowed in. The sign will say "LEAVE YOUR STICKY SNOTTY ****S AT HOME PLEASE"
Well behaved dogs are allowed though.

Ye sound like a pleasant pair anyway :rolleyes:

keith16

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Child free cafes are the way to go now. I would definitely subscribe. No doubt there would be some numpty complaining under the equality legislation. But hey, I don't think children fall within that ambit.

Finding some entrepreneur brave enough to do it is the problem, and I haven't got the capital.

I make sure to book holidays to adult only places too.

At least I am consistent.

If its such a good business plan and capital is the only problem then why don't you go for it? You clearly believe and are passionate about the idea. Should be easy to source some financing.

Spanish Eyes

Sephiroth_dude wrote: »

Ye sound like a pleasant pair anyway :rolleyes:

In fairness, I think those posters have made a good point without being awful about it either

Spanish Eyes

keith16 wrote: »

If its such a good business plan and capital is the only problem then why don't you go for it? You clearly believe and are passionate about the idea. Should be easy to source some financing.

Capital, did you not read it? Folk cannot get a mortgage these days, what are you on about?

Anyway, doesn't matter, I will not go into an establishment where there are children unsupervised by their parents/guardians/minders.

The French have it right. The parents make the rules, the kids obey.

Doesn't seem to be much trouble with ASD or that over there... the kids just sit and eat and are quiet. I love France for that, wish I could live there.

Capital again....

LOL.

keith16

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Capital, did you not read it? Folk cannot get a mortgage these days, what are you on about?

Anyway, doesn't matter, I will not go into an establishment where there are children unsupervised by their parents/guardians/minders.

The French have it right. The parents make the rules, the kids obey.

Doesn't seem to be much trouble with ASD or that over there... the kids just sit and eat and are quiet. I love France for that, wish I could live there.

Capital again....

LOL.

LOL indeed....capital is plentiful. You are, by your own definition, a coward.

Spanish Eyes

keith16 wrote: »

LOL indeed....capital is plentiful. You are, by your own definition, a coward.

Now now.....

Mocking is catching!

Play the ball, not the man.

Anyway, I still don't like sharing my coffee time space with unruly kids. So what's the solution, since you know my Bank Manager so well.

twill

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Doesn't seem to be much trouble with ASD or that over there... the kids just sit and eat and are quiet. I love France for that, wish I could live there.

:rolleyes:

As someone with sensory overload, I find the loud music played by 99% of cafes a far, far more regular annoyance. I actually can't take noisy children, but rarely encounter them in cafes except at weekends. Loud music, on the other hand, is everywhere.

Yeah_Right

Correct me if I'm wrong (I'm working from memory and not doing any research) but wasn't there a restaurant in Dublin that didn't allow kids in at lunchtime due to the fact that they were targeting the business crowd and some self-entitled mum got in a hump about it? She had to take her toddler to the Four Seasons or something instead.

Lots of people got upset by that but I think it's perfectly reasonable.

twill

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong (I'm working from memory and not doing any research) but wasn't there a restaurant in Dublin that didn't allow kids in at lunchtime due to the fact that they were targeting the business crowd and some self-entitled mum got in a hump about it? She had to take her toddler to the Four Seasons or something instead.

Lots of people got upset by that but I think it's perfectly reasonable.

It is reasonable, and I actually agree with the idea behind the thread that cafes should be quiet spaces. Unfortunately that doesn't seem to be respected in general. It's even hard to find a quiet library now.

The_Valeyard

twill wrote: »

It is reasonable, and I actually agree with the idea behind the thread that cafes should be quiet spaces. Unfortunately that doesn't seem to be respected in general. It's even hard to find a quiet library now.

That drives me bonkers, I really hate noise in libraries.

IvyTheTerrible

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Capital, did you not read it? Folk cannot get a mortgage these days, what are you on about?

Anyway, doesn't matter, I will not go into an establishment where there are children unsupervised by their parents/guardians/minders.

The French have it right. The parents make the rules, the kids obey.

Doesn't seem to be much trouble with ASD or that over there... the kids just sit and eat and are quiet. I love France for that, wish I could live there.

Capital again....

LOL.

Sorry wut?
Haha, I don't know where you go in France, but there are 60 million people living here, you get all sorts of parents and children. Children who are quiet in restaurants and children who are noisy. Restaurants are more child-friendly here though.
(Ah, the "all French children are well behaved" is up there on the BS scale with "French women don't gain weight")

Olishi4

Yes Op, ban children from all cafes. They are just there to annoy you. It's their main purpose in life and the parents are accessories and while we are at it, let's ban old people too. They are too slow, take up too much time to count their money when paying. I nearly missed my bus once over it. One even expected me to help them bring their food to the table because they couldn't manage with the tray. Like they actually approached me.

Once I saw an old person actually spill their drink. I felt like just getting up there and then and telling them to get out right now.

They're forgetful too. Once I had to run after a little old lady who'd forgotten her umbrella. Completely ruined my lunch break.

Smondie

IvyTheTerrible wrote: »

Sorry wut?
.... Restaurants are more child-friendly here though.

Can someone explain this to me. I've been in cafes in Europe and none of them (apart from McDonalds and the others you would find over here, not exactly cafes) had play areas or any additional stuff for children. What makes them more 'child-friendly'?

Jawgap

Smondie wrote: »

Can someone explain this to me. I've been in cafes in Europe and none of them (apart from McDonalds and the others you would find over here, not exactly cafes) had play areas or any additional stuff for children. What makes them more 'child-friendly'?

A few years ago we were in France and having a bite in a local cafe - the kids were hot and tired and when they got bored they started acting up. I was asking/reasoning with them to just give me 10 minutes to finish my food and it deteriorated into them whinging crankily and me pleading with increasing desperation......

......as this was getting louder, the waiter - an oldish gentleman - came over and barked at them "écouter ton papa!!!" - they were so shocked at being spoke to like this by a complete stranger they barely said a word until the place was well behind us.....

......in the intervening years it has become my 'go to' catchphrase when they're not listening - said of course in an 'Allo 'Allo French accent!

That's what made that place family friendly

IvyTheTerrible

Smondie wrote: »

Can someone explain this to me. I've been in cafes in Europe and none of them (apart from McDonalds and the others you would find over here, not exactly cafes) had play areas or any additional stuff for children. What makes them more 'child-friendly'?

Having space for pushchairs, plenty of highchairs available, waiting staff who chat to the children, having a children's menu that doesn't consist of sausage and chips, stuff like that.
(I should say that while I occasionally bring my children out to eat with us, I wouldn't bring them everywhere - and not often in the evening when they can be restive and couples want a quiet night out. Also I don't let my 4 year old run around or make lots of noise - he and his baby sister are learning how to behave in public! If he acts up, we correct him, and if he continues, we leave).

Smondie

In Denmark they leave the baby in the pram outside the door.

Smondie

IvyTheTerrible wrote: »

[

Having space for pushchairs, ....

really? Most cafes i've been in where quite small

Jawgap

Smondie wrote: »

In Denmark they leave the baby in the pram outside the door.

Yeah, but this is Ireland - you know we have different weather to Scandinavia - parents here like their 'snowflakes' indoors!

The babies who nap in sub-zero temperatures

Would you put your baby or toddler outside in the freezing cold for their lunchtime nap? Most Nordic parents wouldn't give it a second thought. For them it's part of their daily routine.

Daytime temperatures this winter in Stockholm have regularly dropped to -5C (23F) but it's still common to see children left outside by their parents for a sleep in the pram.

Wander through the snowy city and you'll see buggies lined up outside coffee shops while parents sip on lattes inside.

And if you are visiting friends and your child needs a nap, you may be offered the garden or balcony instead of a bedroom.

mariaalice

On the judging parents thing, its very hard not to do, try my best and I would never say it to the parent the worst I would do is maybe debrief to my husband.

This one actuality upset me a bit.

shopping: a parent going round with a child or children and the parent spending the time irritable, sighing, low level annoyance with the child. It is surprising common, I know children can be annoying at times but not all the time.

One Saturday morning recently in the supermarket a middle aged middle class man was doing it with what I presume were his two daughter and one stage he said what's that 'crap' you have picked up, all said in aggressive tone.

Yellow pack crisps

Smondie wrote: »

really? Most cafes i've been in where quite small

Everything is a generalisation with you.