Kids in Cafes

Sue Pa Key Pa

Keane2baMused wrote: »

I spoke about that already. If my child goes into a meltdown from sensory overload is the example. I won't apologise for behaviour he cannot help, but I will and there will be repercussions if it's behaviour he can help and knows he shouldn't be doing.

Theres a very real difference between a child having a tantrum and a child having a meltdown from SO.

Sensory processing disorder means everything is a million times brighter and more uncomfortable and processing all of that can cause havoc with their nervous system.

Fair enough, the thread did get derailed for a long while about children who had pre-existing conditions

Wigglepuppy

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Are you totally DELUDED... they are exactly the places kids will be brought to in order to enhance their tastebuds at six months old or something. It's part of the package. LOL.

Has to have a BIG sign outside saying no kids. Or else I am not going there!

But seriously, my point is that there are plenty of eateries and coffee places that don't have parents and children among their clientele. Well I've certainly found them anyway. People just need to find them. Unless they want to stick to the noisy places and complain about it afterwards (which won't change anything).

Calahonda52

Thiago Jolly Star wrote: »

These kids were exceptional but it's not unheard of for well mannered orderly children to be seen in cafés.

Keane2baMused

Sue Pa Key Pa wrote: »

Fair enough, the thread did get derailed for a long while about children who had pre-existing conditions

The problem is no matter what you do someone somewhere will always find a way to get p1ssed off or have an issue.

Really people need to be less concerned about others and concentrate on their own self-improvement.

Nobody is perfect, even children and their parents!

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

It is very infuriating seeing parents completely ignoring bad behaviour

Yellow pack crisps

Yellow pack crisps wrote: »

I am not an expert or dismissing what you're saying but isnt the modern world not brighter and noisier than generations past? I am not autistic but jesus Ikea lighting and noise and layout defiantly affects me in some way and i cannot spend very long there.

But presumably you don't have uncontrollable meltdowns in IKEA. I'm not being glib, I appreciate you're making a fair point, but if you can control your sensitivity, then it isn't uncontrollable, and it isn't a biological inevitability

Whispered wrote: »

I live near a sheltered living place with a large amount of older people there, and recently had a really interesting conversation with the public health nurse who goes there. She basically said that many of the older people there would be autistic to different degrees. She said that if they were kids now, chances are they would have gone on to have a pretty normal life but back when they were kids they were put into homes.

I think that's part of the explanation.

But with autism generally, I think part of the 'explosion' in diagnoses may be due to a very liberal, widened definition of 'autism', or even misdiagnoses.

There have been a few high-profile papers which have tended to suggest problems with autism diagnoses, with many autistic children being apparently 'cured'.

The same has happened with asthma. A lot of children were incorrectly diagnosed as asthmatics in Ireland, and that's only now becoming apparent.

I have relatives with 'autism' (or Aspergers, which is not really a separate condition) and have close friends who have siblings with Autism. None of us have close relatives who were placed in residential psychiatric facilities from our parents generation. This is a bit problematic, given the apparent widespread existence of Autism.

Sorry mods if this is OT. Maybe it deserves its own thread?

makingmecrazy

OldNotWIse wrote: »

To be fair yes she sounds like a wench and I am not disputing that. But how is she representative of every person who raises issue with a kid acting out? The only objection I had to the original post was the assertion that any person who gets irritated is by necessity a miserable person that nobody wants to be with. It is simply not true.

She's not. She was just a cow, plain and simple. He wasn't acting out. He wasn't even moving

Point being there are all sorts out there and the mass sweeping generalisation that always happen on these threads is alive and well.
There are a-hole parents, a-hole single people and everything in between.

mohawk

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

But presumably you don't have uncontrollable meltdowns in IKEA. I'm not being glib, I appreciate you're making a fair point, but if you can control your sensitivity, then it isn't uncontrollable, and it isn't a biological inevitability

I think that's part of the explanation.

But with autism generally, I think part of the 'explosion' in diagnoses may be due to a very liberal, widened definition of 'autism', or even misdiagnoses.

There have been a few high-profile papers which have tended to suggest problems with autism diagnoses, with many autistic children being apparently 'cured'.

The same has happened with asthma. A lot of children were incorrectly diagnosed as asthmatics in Ireland, and that's only now becoming apparent.

I have relatives with 'autism' (or Aspergers, which is not really a separate condition) and have close friends who have siblings with Autism. None of us have close relatives who were placed in residential psychiatric facilities from our parents generation. This is a bit problematic, given the apparent widespread existence of Autism.

Sorry mods if this is OT. Maybe it deserves its own thread?

It is a spectrum so some people are more severely autistic then others. Adults on mild end of spectrum will have learnt to mange sensory overload.

It is a development disorder so for some kids they do teach milestones but they do it years after their peers. Some kids the biggest issue is social skills and they can be taught to a certain extent. Autism is diagnosed based on symptoms it is likely that it is actually caused by different things biologically.

Anyone who works in anything science or technology related will say some of their coworkers are definitely on the spectrum but they were never diagnosed back in the day.

A very good friend works in a psychiatric hospital and they have patients that have been there practically their whole lives and a lot of them are autistic.

Anyway thread is about kids misbehaving in cafes and not ASD kids having meltdowns in public.

Yellow pack crisps

I actually don't know what I would do or how I would act all if I stayed in ikea longer than I usually do so I can't really answer that. I think you are being very dismissive of autism and even mild cases associated with the spectrum as it nearly feels like you are saying 'in my day these things didn't happen' what you have to remember is that this field has been researched and orchestrated to an extent that children now who are on the spectrum have s better chance of independent and a quality life compared to decades ago. My grandfather for instance died of heart problems that a simple procedure could now cure to look at it from a different angle. There really is lots of undignosed adult people around who never had the help available then that is now and they suffer from all sorts of mental problems and in many cases isolation.

XR3i

i mentioned seeing a 5 yr old child drinking red-bull here last week,

i was in a petrol station this evening and i seen the very same mother and child, and she was asking the cashier if they were doing any "special offers on red-bull?"

apparently u can get two cans for 4$

learn_more

Wigglepuppy wrote: »

But seriously, my point is that there are plenty of eateries and coffee places that don't have parents and children among their clientele. Well I've certainly found them anyway. People just need to find them. Unless they want to stick to the noisy places and complain about it afterwards (which won't change anything).

Haha. You so wrong. Let me tell you why I started the thread. I went to a cafe and as I was about to buy my coffee there was a baby squealing viscously. Looked over to see parent chatting away not looking in the slightest bit embrassed, as if he was in a nursing school. It's totally normal behaviour for a baby after all. This happened before I paid for my coffee, thank gawd, so I left. Decided to try a pub but it stank from the night before so I left there too.

Oh and not everyone lives in the city with eateries and cafe's left right and center. Oh and every cafe in the small town I live in closes as 6pm. All 6 of them.

Notsomindful

Keane2baMused wrote: »

That's not the point. You're missing it entirely.

Having some tolerance and understanding for people in general is the point.

My son, to other people is just a brat going ballistic when he has a meltdown. I don't carry a sign around saying my son has autism.

I get the stares when my son acts up. I am quite stern and constantly check his behaviour. He is undergoing assessment at moment but doesnt look like anything is up with him. Certain things trigger him so every trip is thought about the best way to not have a meltdown. I suffer at home because of even going shopping with him, he has major meltdowns at home.
I am getting to stage where I would rather stay at home isolated than go out and face my childs wrath.
Going out to cafe with children, might be only thing to keep these parents sane.


So id ask people not to judge, if you cant see anything wrong with a child, doesnt mean other things arent going on for child.

Keane2baMused

Notsomindful wrote: »

I get the stares when my son acts up. I am quite stern and constantly check his behaviour. He is undergoing assessment at moment but doesnt look like anything is up with him. Certain things trigger him so every trip is thought about the best way to not have a meltdown. I suffer at home because of even going shopping with him, he has major meltdowns at home.
I am getting to stage where I would rather stay at home isolated than go out and face my childs wrath.
Going out to cafe with children, might be only thing to keep these parents sane.


So id ask people not to judge, if you cant see anything wrong with a child, doesnt mean other things arent going on for child.

That's tough. I have been exactly where you are so I know how you must feel.What I will say is keep your chin up and trucking along. It does get better with time. The best but most difficult thing you can do is to keep trying. It will all be worth it in the end when you see your child able to cope with the world around them.

Things are far from perfect here but slowly but surely we are seeing positive changes, after alot of hard work. The HSE don't help so you literally end up being psychologIst, speech therapist and an OT as well as the parent.

Get yourself to a local parents support group. It'll give you a whole new perspective and also an outlet with people who get it.

goz83

LexieOnRale wrote: »

It is very infuriating seeing parents completely ignoring bad behaviour

Sometimes this is for good reason. It can be better to let the tantrum fizzle out, rather than give them attention for bad behaviour. This isn't always the case, or practical, but it explains it sometimes. Other times, people are just inconsiderate cnuts.

learn_more wrote: »

Haha. You so wrong. Let me tell you why I started the thread. I went to a cafe and as I was about to buy my coffee there was a baby squealing viscously. Looked over to see parent chatting away not looking in the slightest bit embrassed, as if he was in a nursing school. It's totally normal behaviour for a baby after all. This happened before I paid for my coffee, thank gawd, so I left. Decided to try a pub but it stank from the night before so I left there too.

Oh and not everyone lives in the city with eateries and cafe's left right and center. Oh and every cafe in the small town I live in closes as 6pm. All 6 of them.

I doubt the cafe missed you. The parent and child certainly didn't. You complain about noise in a cafe and then right after that, the odour in a pub. If only you had told us this in the first post, you'd have saved us all a lot of writing. You need to learn more about living in world occupied by other humans who are not all pandering to your desires.

keavebm

Smondie wrote: »

You would "break thier face"

Good parenting right there, no wonder kids are terrors of this is the example being shown.

I treat my kids with the upmost respect but if a stranger told them off for anything it would be the last time they did it and by the way my parenting is excellent. No one and I mean no one will shout or talk down to my kids

endacl

keavebm wrote: »

Well ur a smart arse wee ****er aren't ya.**** the lot of ye. If u haven't the cop on to treat children like they are children then some people never deserve children ye small minded shower of walkers. Ignorant **** heads

Have a cuppa and a nice sit down. It'll be OK in a bit.

cj maxx

learn_more wrote: »

I like to go out for the occasional coffee either by myself or with friends. Impossible nowadays to find a cafe that doesn't have the atmosphere of a school playground or a creche.

Maybe parents live in a dream-world where they believe that other patrons are only too happy to see their little darlings re-enact world war 2 with some plastic toys they've given them. I recall a time when kids were given things to shut them up - not to give them an opportunity to make even more noise.

And visually, it's the way the really mess up their table with crumbs, straws, sweet wrappers, on the plates , on the tables, on the seats, on the ground, while their parents light up and gossip; giving the occasional roar as to give the impression their being responsible parents. Really not the type of environment a grown adult would like to spend his or her time in.

I really think cafe owners should take some responsibility for all this. It's in their interest to come to a better arrangement after all. A one kid per table policy would be reasonable and wouldn't it make financial sense to have more paying adults seated that to have low spending riff raff sullying their establishment who scare off the more desirable clientèle ! I was never taken to cafes when I was a child. And quite right too. It's just a total lack of consideration that parents have these days which is a sign of our times. Sigh.

Ah , get over yourself princess. !

cj maxx

learn_more wrote: »

I like to go out for the occasional coffee either by myself or with friends. Impossible nowadays to find a cafe that doesn't have the atmosphere of a school playground or a creche.

Maybe parents live in a dream-world where they believe that other patrons are only too happy to see their little darlings re-enact world war 2 with some plastic toys they've given them. I recall a time when kids were given things to shut them up - not to give them an opportunity to make even more noise.

And visually, it's the way the really mess up their table with crumbs, straws, sweet wrappers, on the plates , on the tables, on the seats, on the ground, while their parents light up and gossip; giving the occasional roar as to give the impression their being responsible parents. Really not the type of environment a grown adult would like to spend his or her time in.

I really think cafe owners should take some responsibility for all this. It's in their interest to come to a better arrangement after all. A one kid per table policy would be reasonable and wouldn't it make financial sense to have more paying adults seated that to have low spending riff raff sullying their establishment who scare off the more desirable clientèle ! I was never taken to cafes when I was a child. And quite right too. It's just a total lack of consideration that parents have these days which is a sign of our times. Sigh.

Get over yourself princess , kids are noisey , birds sjit on your car snd toast falls buttered side down . Thats life

endacl

keavebm wrote: »

I treat my kids with the upmost respect but if a stranger told them off for anything it would be the last time they did it and by the way my parenting is excellent. No one and I mean no one will shout or talk down to my kids

Off topic... ish....

I've noticed that people who are good at something tend not to have to say their there they're good at it. The 'cry of 'my parenting is excellent' is too often heard on the stage of one Mr. Jeremy Kyle, for example?

An 'empty vessel' kinda thing, if you like...

keavebm

endacl wrote: »

Have a cuppa and a nice sit down. It'll be OK in a bit.

Such ignorant people on here I work every hour of the day to provide for my kids and to give them the best. You can tell straight away when people have kids and on here and when people don't. The ignorance on this forum is shocking. A cup of tea sounds nice😉

Spanish Eyes

Good parenting is evident in the behaviour of children when out and about with other children/adults.

I don't blame the children at all.

Elliott S

goz83 wrote: »

Sometimes this is for good reason. It can be better to let the tantrum fizzle out, rather than give them attention for bad behaviour.

This is a really good point. If you start fussing over or even paying slight attention to kids every time they start a tantrum, this can makes things worse! They know then that tantrum = attention.

keavebm

keavebm wrote: »

Well ur a smart arse wee ****er aren't ya.**** the lot of ye. If u haven't the cop on to treat children like they are children then some people never deserve children ye small minded shower of walkers. Ignorant **** heads

I can imagine your kids behaviour anyway....

keavebm

endacl wrote: »

Off topic... ish....

I've noticed that people who are good at something tend not to have to say their there they're good at it. The 'cry of 'my parenting is excellent' is too often heard on the stage of one Mr. Jeremy Kyle, for example?

An 'empty vessel' kinda thing, if you like...

You can tell you don't have kids and if you do have kids your a bit of a dick! Seen as I don't even know who Jermy Kyle is which I presume is on TV maybe not go back to daytime TV and when you have kids you might learn how to be a parent

Elliott S

goz83 wrote: »

I doubt the cafe missed you. The parent and child certainly didn't. You complain about noise in a cafe and then right after that, the odour in a pub. If only you had told us this in the first post, you'd have saved us all a lot of writing. You need to learn more about living in world occupied by other humans who are not all pandering to your desires.

I think we knew the OP was rather precious and stuck-up from her thread-opening post, featuring as it did these charming soundbites:

learn_more wrote: »

And visually, it's the way the really mess up their table with crumbs, straws, sweet wrappers, on the plates , on the tables, on the seats, on the ground

learn_more wrote: »

and wouldn't it make financial sense to have more paying adults seated that to have low spending riff raff sullying their establishment who scare off the more desirable clientèle!

videopirate

keavebm wrote: »

Such ignorant people on here I work every hour of the day to provide for my kids and to give them the best. You can tell straight away when people have kids and on here and when people don't. The ignorance on this forum is shocking. A cup of tea sounds nice😉

Well, eh, that's what you're supposed to do!! Be responsible for the children you bring into the world. Stop patting yourself on the back for that!

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

keavebm wrote: »

Well ur a smart arse wee ****er aren't ya.**** the lot of ye. If u haven't the cop on to treat children like they are children then some people never deserve children ye small minded shower of walkers. Ignorant **** heads

What's a shower of walkers?
You sound like a great role model, btw. I'm sure your children are delightful

Ken.

Mod- keavebm do not post in this thread again.

Tasden

Elliott S wrote: »

This is a really good point. If you start fussing over or even paying slight attention to kids every time they start a tantrum, this can makes things worse! They know then that tantrum = attention.

But generally when people give out about kids being bold and parents ignoring them it is not kids having tantrums. It is kids running riot and parents not telling them to sit down etc. I think most people, including those without kids, know the difference between a tantrum (alot of the time because the parent did discipline them or said no/did something the child wasn't happy about) and just kids being allowed misbehave.

Whispered

LexieOnRale wrote: »

What's a shower of walkers?

They're the people who walk out of cafes after ordering their coffee when they notice a child in the room. :P

I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle of the two sides and most reasonable people might agree that parents should control their kids. But where things get a bit bumpy, so long as it's not being ignored, they should be cut a bit of slack too. Kids are unpredictable little creatures at the best of times. It doesn't mean they are bad kids or that the parents are bad parents.

Although adult only establishments sound wonderful tbh. A nice break for parents too when they get out without a child.