Kids in Cafes

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If your child is having a meltdown in a cafe surrounded by people who have paid for coffee or paid for food, as a parent it's your obligation to take control of the situation. You ask them to calm down, you give them a chance to behave themselves, and if that's not working, you take them by the hand and remove them from the situation. It's your kids causing a racket, it's up to you to leave.

Tasden

LexieOnRale wrote: »

If your child is having a meltdown in a cafe surrounded by people who have paid for coffee or paid for food, as a parent it's your obligation to take control of the situation. You ask them to calm down, you give them a chance to behave themselves, and if that's not working, you take them by the hand and remove them from the situation. It's your kids causing a racket, it's up to you to leave.

Tbf if my kid has gotten to the point where they are having a meltdown then they have been given fair warning already and we're leaving. The one and only tantrum she's had resulted in us going straight home. Never had another tantrum, out or at home.

goz83

LexieOnRale wrote: »

What's a shower of walkers?
You sound like a great role model, btw. I'm sure your children are delightful

I think the Parents and the very cool people who rock this world have won this argument

Yay to us :P

All the nay sayers can go eat baby socks :pac:

Keane2baMused

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Good parenting is evident in the behaviour of children when out and about with other children/adults.

I don't blame the children at all.

So if a child misbehaves in public it's all down to bad parenting?

Every parent must be a bad one so, I don't think there is a single child who will not act up at some point in time. They're children, it's a learning curve.

Everyone is a perfect parent before they have kids!!

Spanish Eyes

LexieOnRale wrote: »

If your child is having a meltdown in a cafe surrounded by people who have paid for coffee or paid for food, as a parent it's your obligation to take control of the situation. You ask them to calm down, you give them a chance to behave themselves, and if that's not working, you take them by the hand and remove them from the situation. It's your kids causing a racket, it's up to you to leave.

That's the model. My brother and sister in law do that with little J, my nephew who is on the spectrum (he has cerebral palsy aswell, so it's not a makey uppy excuse for his reactions, just to mention).

Try once, then get out. Everyone is happy and relieved. Not the child's fault, but the parent/minder reaction or non reaction can be.

Keane2baMused

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

That's the model. My brother and sister in law do that with little J, my nephew who is on the spectrum (he has cerebral palsy aswell, so it's not a makey uppy excuse for his reactions, just to mention).

Try once, then get out. Everyone is happy and relieved. Not the child's fault, but the parent/minder reaction or non reaction can be.

Why do you need to validate his reactions by mentioning he "has cerebral palsy aswell"?

Both are legitimate disabilities.

Tasden

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

That's the model. My brother and sister in law do that with little J, my nephew who is on the spectrum (he has cerebral palsy aswell, so it's not a makey uppy excuse for his reactions, just to mention).

Try once, then get out. Everyone is happy and relieved. Not the child's fault, but the parent/minder reaction or non reaction can be.

Being on the spectrum is not a makey uppy excuse, cerebral palsy doesn't make it more "valid".

Spanish Eyes

Keane2baMused wrote: »

So if a child misbehaves in public it's all down to bad parenting?

Every parent must be a bad one so, I don't think there is a single child who will not act up at some point in time. They're children, it's a learning curve.

Everyone is a perfect parent before they have kids!!

Not at all.

It is the parent's reaction to the situation that is sometimes at fault.

As in, not extricating the screaming child from the cafe after a one off opportunity to get the child to calm down.

I don't see that too often. I mostly see indulgence, at the expense of everyone else. The door is a metre away, get out of it with the screaming child FGS. Not that difficult.

I'm not saying that you are a bad parent. How would I know that, I'm sure you are a great parent.

Spanish Eyes

Tasden wrote: »

Being on the spectrum is not a makey uppy excuse, cerebral palsy doesn't make it more "valid".

I think you need to read my post again. :pac:

Tasden

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

I think you need to read my post again. :pac:

I read it again. Point still stands unless you'd like to clarify?

Spanish Eyes

Keane2baMused wrote: »

Why do you need to validate his reactions by mentioning he "has cerebral palsy aswell"?

Both are legitimate disabilities.

I'm not trying to cause WW3 here, but it seems to me that the Autism Spectrum can be used to excuse a lot of behaviours that are not linked to AS at all.

That's why I mentioned CP aswell. It is connected with AS.

Keane2baMused

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Not at all.

It is the parent's reaction to the situation that is sometimes at fault.

As in, not extricating the screaming child from the cafe after a one off opportunity to get the child to calm down.

I don't see that too often. I mostly see indulgence, at the expense of everyone else. The door is a metre away, get out of it with the screaming child FGS. Not that difficult.

I'm not saying that you are a bad parent. How would I know that, I'm sure you are a great parent.

That is true but you need to step back and not take such a simplistic view on it.

For most families of children with special needs there is little to no opportunity to get a sitter or have some time to just unwind.

I've left more places than I care to remember with my son kicking off because I don't want to disturb others. I dont just sit there and think F them.

Its upsetting to hear people say ASD is essentially a condition that has been made up. You have to walk a mile to understand just how difficult day to day life can be and how much energy it takes to care for a child with additional needs.

It's support that is needed, not tuts and judgemental looks.

Tasden

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

I'm not trying to cause WW3 here, but it seems to me that the Autism Spectrum can be used to excuse a lot of behaviours that are not linked to AS at all.

That's why I mentioned CP aswell. It is connected with AS.

So in the case you mention ASD is a legitimate reason for the child's behaviour because he also has CP. But when other parents explain that the child's behaviour is as a result of their autism its just makey uppy justification for bad parenting. Ok.

Keane2baMused

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

I'm not trying to cause WW3 here, but it seems to me that the Autism Spectrum can be used to excuse a lot of behaviours that are not linked to AS at all.

That's why I mentioned CP aswell. It is connected with AS.

How do you know the behaviours aren't due to their ASD? You're coming across as an armchair expert here.

Would you tell your brother his child's ASD is makey uppy or that only the child's cerebral palsy is responsible for certain behaviour?

Spanish Eyes

Look, ASD is cited in many cases for childrens' behaviour. Who knows? Seems to be a lot of it about these days along with ADHD.

I'm just saying that my nephew also has CP which is very evident, he uses a wheelchair. But having said that, any meltdowns he has are swiftly taken care of by his parents so as not to further upset him, or those surrounding him in a public place.

I'm merely saying that in some cases, disruptive behaviour is NOT often dealt with swiftly for the sake of the child and those around them. Indulgence and entitlement.

I know there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth at me now.

3, 2, 1....

Spanish Eyes

Keane2baMused wrote: »

That is true but you need to step back and not take such a simplistic view on it.

For most families of children with special needs there is little to no opportunity to get a sitter or have some time to just unwind.

I've left more places than I care to remember with my son kicking off because I don't want to disturb others. I dont just sit there and think F them.

Its upsetting to hear people say ASD is essentially a condition that has been made up. You have to walk a mile to understand just how difficult day to day life can be and how much energy it takes to care for a child with additional needs.

It's support that is needed, not tuts and judgemental looks.

As I mentioned, I have a nephew (gorgeous child) with so many special needs I couldn't list them. He is treated the same as his brother is. Behave or out the door.

He's getting better at understanding social settings, but it will never be perfect.

Still he is an adorable child.

I didn't mean any nastiness, just probably kicking off as to the unfairness of his situation. But that's just me. His parents live it every day and know the drill.

yellowcandle

OldNotWIse wrote: »

I was on the luas a while ago and there was a kid sitting beside me on those pull down seats. He kept standing up and letting the seat slam back up, pull it down, sit for ten seconds, jump up and let it slam up again. I looked at the mother who was standing across from us a few times to see if her son's behavior had even registered but she paid no notice to him. Then I started thinking in relation to this thread, was I being unreasonable in being irritated by the seat beside me being slammed up and down constantly (some posters here would think I was), or would anyone else feel the same? Curious.

that would have p*ssed me off

goz83

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Look, ASD is cited in many cases for childrens' behaviour. Who knows? Seems to be a lot of it about these days along with ADHD.

I'm just saying that my nephew also has CP which is very evident, he uses a wheelchair. But having said that, any meltdowns he has are swiftly taken care of by his parents so as not to further upset him, or those surrounding him in a public place.

I'm merely saying that in some cases, disruptive behaviour is NOT often dealt with swiftly for the sake of the child and those around them. Indulgence and entitlement.

I know there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth at me now.

3, 2, 1....

Not a clue. I would have thought that you'd have more cop on considering you have a nephew with endless disabilities. There are no teeth gnashing at you. Just a few sighs, like the ones in the OP.

mohawk

TBH I have seen many kids throw tantrums in public. I have witnessed very few if any in a cafe. Lots in shops when a parent won't buy the child something they asked for or when they are being made leave the playground. The vast majority of tantrums are kids that are 2-4 years old. Which is perfectly normal albeit mortifying as a parent. Sometimes they throw a tantrum because their cup is the wrong colour - they are crazy at this age there is no reasoning with them.

There was a time my son would have an absolute meltdown if he wasn't the one to press the button of a lift or pedestrian light. He is on autism spectrum so left to his own devices everything would have to be done a certain way and deviation from this would cause fear and upset. I had two choices never leave the house and hope he would grow out of it or help him learn to deal with it. I was also aware that things like meltdowns become far more frowned upon as he got older. So things that upset him had to be tackled when he was young and small enough to lift out of a situation quickly. Judging by the many dirty looks we got on the way we annoyed many a person, but I want him to be a self-sufficient adult. He had to learn that the world around us is unpredictable and can't be controlled and that Is ok. He hasn't had a meltdown in years as he had learnt to cope with the things that overwhelm him.

fima

learn_more wrote: »

Haha. You so wrong. Let me tell you why I started the thread. I went to a cafe and as I was about to buy my coffee there was a baby squealing viscously. Looked over to see parent chatting away not looking in the slightest bit embrassed, as if he was in a nursing school. It's totally normal behaviour for a baby after all. This happened before I paid for my coffee, thank gawd, so I left. Decided to try a pub but it stank from the night before so I left there too.

Oh and not everyone lives in the city with eateries and cafe's left right and center. Oh and every cafe in the small town I live in closes as 6pm. All 6 of them.

How on earth does a baby squeal viscously? That is an extremely strange thing to say.

andekwarhola

Somebody should take this thread out of the room and give it time out.

steddyeddy

Keane2baMused wrote: »

How do you know the behaviours aren't due to their ASD? You're coming across as an armchair expert here.

Would you tell your brother his child's ASD is makey uppy or that only the child's cerebral palsy is responsible for certain behaviour?

Are we going down a "how do you know" line for all public behaviours?

SEPT 23 1989

fima wrote: »

How on earth does a baby squeal viscously? That is an extremely strange thing to say.

A baby crying is the sound of new life

It's to be celebrated

Smondie

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

fima wrote: »

How on earth does a baby squeal viscously? That is an extremely strange thing to say.

A baby crying is the sound of new life

It's to be celebrated

Just heading out for lunch to the cafe now, hopefully there'll be no "celebrations" going on

steddyeddy

So if we have a conclusion from this thread it's that some people think it's wrong to criticise bad behaviour on a child's part that may be as a result of an adults lack of parenting. All parents are homogenous and you can't criticise unless you know what issues they are having.

Widdershins

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Well if you wanted a quiet lunch then maybe you should have eaten in your home or office? You can't really choose to eat in public and then complain when everyone else doesn't change their behaviour to suit your exact needs. Ever been bothered by loud conversations, people talking on phones, loudly coughing or blowing their nose? I definitely have. That's what happens when you go outside where other people are.

if that was my child I would have told her to stop bothering you and moved her away but you didn't even say anything, maybe the mother thought you didn't mind and was happy to see her child interacting with someone.

Yeah ..it's the gobby adults who get to me , although some kids can be a bit much .

I would have called the child away too. The person would let you know if it's not necessary (''no it's alright , he/she is grand'')
People want to be left alone for all kinds of reasons and that should be respected too
On the other hand , the mother probably has a lot to deal with too and might not get out often either so I would make allowances ..

Keane2baMused

Keane2baMused wrote: »

How do you know the behaviours aren't due to their ASD? You're coming across as an armchair expert here.

Would you tell your brother his child's ASD is makey uppy or that only the child's cerebral palsy is responsible for certain behaviour?

Nobody said Autism doesn't exist, despite your repeated hysterical, defensive statements to that effect.

Kids with autism, like any child, can occasionally be brats.

Is that difficult? Not everything can be blamed on Autism, I think that's all anybody is saying. It isn't an attack on you personally, it's an outstandingly obvious statement.

Keane2baMused

steddyeddy wrote: »

Are we going down a "how do you know" line for all public behaviours?

When you think it's OK to label people as bad parents if their child acts up then yes. All is not always what it seems.

Generally it's people without any experience or real insight who have that mindset, no surprises there.

Keane2baMused

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Nobody said Autism doesn't exist, despite your repeated hysterical, defensive statements to that effect.

Kids with autism, like any child, can occasionally be brats.

Is that difficult? Not everything can be blamed on Autism, I think that's all anybody is saying. It isn't an attack on you personally, it's an outstandingly obvious statement.

OK clearly you're going to ignore the posts they were in relation to. Take from it what you will, I stand by what I have said.

bigpink

If the child doesnt respond to be told to behave the parent should take them.out of the room to relax