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Kids in Cafes

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    #662
    OldNotWIse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,468 ✭✭✭✭OldNotWIse


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Not in the church on my wedding day (to take one of numerous situations).

    I had one squealing throughout my graduation ceremony. Fúckers couldn't leave the child with someone else for 40 minutes.


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    #663
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Elliott S wrote: »
    The child was the groom's nephew and was very much wanted there. And he was very sweet actually, looking up curiously at the priest and the ceremony, wondering what was happening. It's one the the things I remember from that day. He made everyone in my vicinity in the church smile.

    See, these things tend to be less black and white than people make out. Anyone who tutted at that child on the day would have looked like humourless, joyless sod and I'd honestly hate to be like them. No ability to spot the joy in something. Thankfully nobody did, that was sitting near me anyway. If any one of you reading my description of the event still thinks it unacceptable, then yes you are a joyless sod and I feel sorry for you that life has leeched from you the ability to see the colour that spontaneous happenings can bring to events and to life.

    Oh, and during that ceremony, a crying baby, the bride's niece was brought out of the church for a few minutes to calm down.

    Imagine that two different scenarios involving two different children warranted different approaches and were both dealt with well?

    And it's the same with children in any public setting. People here ranting about what they would do in a certain situation when it can hard to appreciate what it is actually like unless you are there.

    You can trot out the word joyless all you like, but the parents of a child running around an altar during a wedding are just ignorant. It may have turned out funny, but lack of respect and consideration can be funny too...that does not mean it becomes acceptable though.


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    #664
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Elliott S wrote: »
    So, for people to be bothered and judgmental about this is absurd and just shows them up to be the joyless pontificaters that they are.

    :D

    Poster labels other posters on anonymous forum as "joyless" and says he would "hate to be like them".

    He then proceeds to say people should not be judgemental...and then reverts to judging them as "joyless pontificators"...


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    #665
    goz83
    Registered Users Posts: 8,034 ✭✭✭goz83


    learn_more wrote: »
    There is the point right there from the OP. Lack of consideration for others, particularly in public places. Never once mentioned badly behaved children or bad parenting.

    Point to consider: See how succinct factually correct posts are far more effective that long-winded waffly ones.

    Look there...making it bold has just emphasised the point. So, first of all, let me LOL :pac: LOL. Now, you talk about succinct posts and waffle. Please refer back to post 1 for the greatest example of precious waffle in this thread. "oh, the visual aspect..hurt, whinge, blah...crumbs, noise,". And then let's not forget "sigh" :pac: . Classic.

    And for the record. Your point was not clear, because it was immersed in so much sh1te. And it was you who pointed out that the vast majority of people missed your point. But thanks for pulling your point out of the pot of manure it was steeping in.
    LexieOnRale wrote: »
    Oh no, when I say that's what I would do, that's 100% what I would do. If I'm paying a lot of money for a wedding, you can be sure I'm not shy enough to leave my guests under any illusions that children would not be welcome.

    Not taking a dig at your post Lexie. It would be your prerogative to invite to your wedding whoever you wanted. I personally wouldn't attend a family wedding if children were excluded (inlaws and siblings), as I would just see it as cold. Cousins or friends...sure, no problem, I wouldn't expect all the kids to be on the invite list. I was at a wedding not long ago where the guestlist was in the region of 120 ish people. I was invited to the afters, as I didn't really know the bride and groom. I got there with the missus (who knew the bride) and couldn't believe how dead it was. I thought we were in the wrong place. The bride didn't want kids at the wedding to "ruin her special day" and so most of the grooms side who were a much larger family boycotted the wedding. The grooms siblings didn't appreciate the bride calling all the shots and banning their kids from the wedding. To say the atmosphere was icy was an understatement. 1 drink later, we were gone. I've seen more joy at funerals tbh.
    LexieOnRale wrote: »
    With all due respect I don't think it's appropriate that tell someone what they said they're experiencing isn't what they're actually experiencing without knowing more about them.

    It's that attitude towards autistic children that you're trying to defend

    To be fair, it was Smondie who said what the OP was experiencing. The OP never mentioned Sensory Overload. She was more focused on the crumbs on the table.


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    #666
    qo2cj1dsne8y4k
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,646 ✭✭✭✭qo2cj1dsne8y4k


    I personally want my guests to be able to relax and enjoy the day without worrying about where their child is, if their child is running amock. I can't see how the day would be enjoyable for a child anyway. I don't want chocolate handprints on someone's expensive dresss, I don't want people falling over kids running around, and I don't want small kids that mean a lot to me seeing people getting drunk. If that offends people and they don't want to come to my wedding, that's absolutely fine


    Edit: was the grooms siblings paying for the wedding?


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    #667
    Winterlong
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,759 ✭✭✭Winterlong


    Do kids actually enjoy weddings? I would have thought not.


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    #668
    podgemonster
    Registered Users Posts: 2,228 ✭✭✭podgemonster


    I put some pound shop coloring books and pencils at the tables where anyone under 10 were sitting, wrapped em in a ribbon with their names on it. Best €10 I spent.

    Them lil fúckers love colouring!


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    #669
    kunst nugget
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭kunst nugget


    goz83 wrote: »
    Not taking a dig at your post Lexie. It would be your prerogative to invite to your wedding whoever you wanted. I personally wouldn't attend a family wedding if children were excluded (inlaws and siblings), as I would just see it as cold. Cousins or friends...sure, no problem, I wouldn't expect all the kids to be on the invite list. I was at a wedding not long ago where the guestlist was in the region of 120 ish people. I was invited to the afters, as I didn't really know the bride and groom. I got there with the missus (who knew the bride) and couldn't believe how dead it was. I thought we were in the wrong place. The bride didn't want kids at the wedding to "ruin her special day" and so most of the grooms side who were a much larger family boycotted the wedding. The grooms siblings didn't appreciate the bride calling all the shots and banning their kids from the wedding. To say the atmosphere was icy was an understatement. 1 drink later, we were gone. I've seen more joy at funerals tbh.

    That says more about his family than her tbh.


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    #670
    MeatTwoVeg
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 861 ✭✭✭MeatTwoVeg


    I'd find it really strange if I was at a wedding and the bride got the priest to make some announcement about keeping kids in check.
    Weddings are family events and families include children. I guess some people see them as glorified piss-ups or worry they won't be the center of attention for a split second.
    Luckily most people don't think like this.


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    #671
    Sofiztikated
    Registered Users Posts: 6,995 ✭✭✭Sofiztikated


    MeatTwoVeg wrote: »
    I'd find it really strange if I was at a wedding and the bride got the priest to make some announcement about keeping kids in check.
    Weddings are family events and families include children. I guess some people see them as glorified piss-ups or worry they won't be the center of attention for a split second.
    Luckily most people don't think like this.

    It's very possible to have a family function, and to keep kids in check.

    A lot of people won't/don't do the latter.


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    #672
    tringle
    Registered Users Posts: 865 ✭✭✭tringle


    This thread is about

    Kids in cafes
    Or
    Kids at weddings
    Or
    People who don't want to see/hear kids
    Or
    People complaining about people who don't have kids
    Or
    Parents who believe everyone should love all kids
    Or
    Bad parents
    Or
    Bad kids
    Or
    Special needs kids integrating in society
    Or
    A coffee drinkers guide to Ireland
    Or
    Dogs in coffee shops

    Tolerance people, tolerance

    We all have to share this world.
    That kid you are complaining about will be working in nursing home and changing your nappy when you have dementia.
    That woman who rolls her eyes when kids scream in a coffee shop may have just left her 8 children at home with her husband and come out for a break for an hour

    I cant believe so many of you are getting this bothered about it, find something important to worry about...and maybe drink less caffeine.


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    #673
    MeatTwoVeg
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 861 ✭✭✭MeatTwoVeg


    Sofiztikated wrote:
    It's very possible to have a family function, and to keep kids in check.


    Never been at a wedding (and I've been to dozens) where kids were let run riot, even though the vast majority of weddings I've been to would have had children in attendance.

    Seen a few adults lose the run of themselves though.


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    #674
    zedhead
    Registered Users Posts: 602 ✭✭✭zedhead


    MeatTwoVeg wrote: »
    I'd find it really strange if I was at a wedding and the bride got the priest to make some announcement about keeping kids in check.
    Weddings are family events and families include children. I guess some people see them as glorified piss-ups or worry they won't be the center of attention for a split second.
    Luckily most people don't think like this.

    I think its up to the bride and groom to decide what type of event their wedding would be. Everyone is entitled to choose the type of wedding they want.

    I'm not engaged but have talked about getting married to my OH. A couple of years ago I was chatting to my cousin in very general terms of what I would or would not like should I ever have a full wedding (though I think eloping would be the ideal for me). I mentioned how I would like our nieces and nephews at the ceremony and for the whole getting ready/photos/start of the drinks reception and then we would provide an on site baby sitter to take the kids before the meal. (I think with speeches (not always child friendly depending on content) and the length of wedding meals, its not an ideal place for kids and at this point I'd like our siblings to be able to let loose a little without having to worry about them. And anything after the meal is definitely not appropriate for children or I can't imagine it would be enjoyable for them either). I mentioned no other kids would be invited and my cousins first reaction was to say that him or his wife would not be able to go if their child wasn't invited. I didn't know how to react but to laugh and say that i wasnt getting married any time soon and would probably elope. But to be honest I was pretty taken aback by how abrupt and brazen his reaction is.


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    #675
    Winterlong
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,759 ✭✭✭Winterlong


    Two things guaranteed to get a strong reaction on AH.
    Threads about Kids
    Threads about Wedding etiquette.


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    #676
    ScumLord
    Registered Users Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    learn_more wrote: »
    Maybe parents live in a dream-world where they believe that other patrons are only too happy to see their little darlings re-enact world war 2 with some plastic toys they've given them. I recall a time when kids were given things to shut them up - not to give them an opportunity to make even more noise.
    I think you're living in a bit of a dream world yourself, one where children somehow don't exist. I don't see how people can get so upset about children enjoying themselves, if you want peace and quiet sit at home, it's a bit daft to expect it in a public place.
    I really think cafe owners should take some responsibility for all this. It's in their interest to come to a better arrangement after all.
    A better arrangement would be to kick out the guy nursing a cup of coffee with a big sick head on him and get out some colouring books for the kids of the people spending loads of money.


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    #677
    MeatTwoVeg
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 861 ✭✭✭MeatTwoVeg


    zedhead wrote:
    I think its up to the bride and groom to decide what type of event their wedding would be. Everyone is entitled to choose the type of wedding they want.


    I agree. There may be cost considerations in limiting invites to the children of cousins.

    Funnily enough, I think the last 5 weddings I've been to, the couple themselves have already had children.


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    #678
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,375 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    tringle wrote: »
    This thread is about

    Kids in cafes
    Or
    Kids at weddings
    Or
    People who don't want to see/hear kids
    Or
    People complaining about people who don't have kids
    Or
    Parents who believe everyone should love all kids
    Or
    Bad parents
    Or
    Bad kids
    Or
    Special needs kids integrating in society
    Or
    A coffee drinkers guide to Ireland
    Or
    Dogs in coffee shops

    Tolerance people, tolerance

    We all have to share this world.
    That kid you are complaining about will be working in nursing home and changing your nappy when you have dementia.
    That woman who rolls her eyes when kids scream in a coffee shop may have just left her 8 children at home with her husband and come out for a break for an hour

    I cant believe so many of you are getting this bothered about it, find something important to worry about...and maybe drink less caffeine.

    Amen


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    #679
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,375 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    Be a fairly poor business person that would put up a no children sign outside their cafe..

    Like kids or not, that would be cutting off your nose to spite your face.


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    #680
    Widdershins
    Registered Users Posts: 10,633 ✭✭✭✭Widdershins


    tringle wrote: »
    This thread is about

    Kids in cafes
    Or
    Kids at weddings
    Or
    People who don't want to see/hear kids
    Or
    People complaining about people who don't have kids
    Or
    Parents who believe everyone should love all kids
    Or
    Bad parents
    Or
    Bad kids
    Or
    Special needs kids integrating in society
    Or
    A coffee drinkers guide to Ireland
    Or
    Dogs in coffee shops

    Tolerance people, tolerance

    We all have to share this world.
    That kid you are complaining about will be working in nursing home and changing your nappy when you have dementia.
    That woman who rolls her eyes when kids scream in a coffee shop may have just left her 8 children at home with her husband and come out for a break for an hour

    I cant believe so many of you are getting this bothered about it, find something important to worry about...and maybe drink less caffeine.

    Well said .


    None of it matters in the grand scheme of things anyway . It matters when you're irritable and the bold child/loud person on phone/laughing ladies who lunch are grating on your last nerve :)


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    #681
    goz83
    Registered Users Posts: 8,034 ✭✭✭goz83


    LexieOnRale wrote: »
    I personally want my guests to be able to relax and enjoy the day without worrying about where their child is, if their child is running amock. I can't see how the day would be enjoyable for a child anyway. I don't want chocolate handprints on someone's expensive dresss, I don't want people falling over kids running around, and I don't want small kids that mean a lot to me seeing people getting drunk. If that offends people and they don't want to come to my wedding, that's absolutely fine


    Edit: was the grooms siblings paying for the wedding?

    In my experience at every wedding I have been to, the kids had a great time and were usually the ones getting up on the dance floor to get the party started. Sure, I've seen some crying, whinging and even a couple of tantrums at weddings too, but it was not usually the kids displaying such behaviour.
    kunst nugget wrote: »
    That says more about his family than her tbh.

    I only got a few snippets of the story sitting at a table, but from what I remember, the brides family was small and she only had 1 niece who was invited to the wedding. None of the grooms nieces and nephews could attend because there were too many of them. The best man pulled out when his daughter was not allowed attend and then loads of others didn't go. There was about 40 people at the afters, but I don't know how many were at the full wedding. It must have been pretty small.

    I suppose some people see weddings as family events and others see it as a day to be a princess, or have a huge pi$$ up. I know I wouldn't go to a siblings wedding if my kids were not allowed go. I would (and have done so on both occasions) offer to cover the extra expense. Though this is normally refused, I then make sure it's covered in the cash portion of the wedding gift.
    MeatTwoVeg wrote: »
    Never been at a wedding (and I've been to dozens) where kids were let run riot, even though the vast majority of weddings I've been to would have had children in attendance.

    Seen a few adults lose the run of themselves though.

    This by 100


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    #682
    qo2cj1dsne8y4k
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,646 ✭✭✭✭qo2cj1dsne8y4k


    Who sounds worse

    Family who set out to deliberately ruin their siblings wedding
    Or
    Bride who decided she didn't want children at her wedding?


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    #683
    qo2cj1dsne8y4k
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,646 ✭✭✭✭qo2cj1dsne8y4k


    It's an event for a couple to celebrate their commitment to each other, and the start of their lives together. It is not about your child, and the bridal party are not spoilt princesses for deciding to keep it adult only.
    If someone is spending in excess of 20k on a wedding, it's THEIR day. Not yours, not your child's. If you want a family event your child can attend, organise your own.


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    #684
    goz83
    Registered Users Posts: 8,034 ✭✭✭goz83


    LexieOnRale wrote: »
    Who sounds worse

    Family who set out to deliberately ruin their siblings wedding
    Or
    Bride who decided she didn't want children at her wedding?

    First option is fictitious.

    Second option too, as she wanted her niece at her wedding.

    I would go with the third option...which is the groom, for putting up with her selfish demand.

    And it was selfish, because it was ok for her to have her niece there, while excluding her partners nieces and nephews. If it was just a complete ban on kids....fair enough, I think people would be more accepting if that. The grooms family obviously didn't feel like celebrating her wedding.


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    #685
    kunst nugget
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭kunst nugget


    goz83 wrote: »
    I know I wouldn't go to a siblings wedding if my kids were not allowed go.

    My children weren't invited to my brother's wedding. It was a meal on a barge followed by an afters in the Odeon. It would have been an absolute nightmare to have them at it. That was their wish for how they wanted to celebrate their wedding. It wasn't about wanting to be a princess for the day - it was about have a small, intimate wedding with their nearest and dearest. Imo, I would have been a Class A Shít to interject and say that I wasn't going to attend unless they invited my children.

    I had a fantastic day and me and the missus could let our hair down without having to worry about kids being entertained or overtired.


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    #686
    Elliott S
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,475 ✭✭✭Elliott S


    Deleted User wrote: »
    :D

    Poster labels other posters on anonymous forum as "joyless" and says he would "hate to be like them".

    He then proceeds to say people should not be judgemental...and then reverts to judging them as "joyless pontificators"...

    Correct. :) And I'd do it again. I'm quite happy to be judgmental of judgmental sods who offer up examples for judgement. I am judging their posts which are fair game. They are giving examples of real life judgments of unsuspecting people.

    Stopping your wedding vows to admonish the parents of a noiseless toddler; what a loser. But it wouldn't actually happen, of course. ;) Messageboard big talk.

    And someone stridently announcing that they wouldn't allow kids at their wedding - something lots of people do with no issue - comes across needlessly confrontational. What a waste of angried-up blood.
    MeatTwoVeg wrote: »
    I'd find it really strange if I was at a wedding and the bride got the priest to make some announcement about keeping kids in check.

    +1, would set an awkward, mean-spirited tone.


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    #687
    goz83
    Registered Users Posts: 8,034 ✭✭✭goz83


    LexieOnRale wrote: »
    It's an event for a couple to celebrate their commitment to each other, and the start of their lives together. It is not about your child, and the bridal party are not spoilt princesses for deciding to keep it adult only.
    If someone is spending in excess of 20k on a wedding, it's THEIR day. Not yours, not your child's. If you want a family event your child can attend, organise your own.

    And people can choose not to celebrate it with them if that is their wish, for whatever reason. And in that case, it wasn't adult only....as I have said already, the brides niece was invited; the only child there and I felt sorry for her, as she was bored with no other kids to play with. I reckon cost a lot less in the end. It was clear enough that a smaller room was organised for the diminished numbers. And just to be clear here.....the day had nothing to do with my family, or kids. I was a +1 to the afters.


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    #688
    qo2cj1dsne8y4k
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,646 ✭✭✭✭qo2cj1dsne8y4k


    Yeah absolutely people can choose to celebrate it or not, but to set out to boycott a siblings wedding and deliberately try ruin their day is a bit ****ty, and how would they know the niece was at the wedding if they didn't go?

    Clearly the grooms family weren't close. Maybe the brides family were much closer, hence her neice being invited. The paying party is under no obligation to justify themselves in regards to who or why someone was invited.

    The grooms family don't sound like they'd have added much to the party with that selfish attitude so, quality over quantity eh :)


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    #689
    goz83
    Registered Users Posts: 8,034 ✭✭✭goz83


    kunst nugget wrote: »
    My children weren't invited to my brother's wedding. It was a meal on a barge followed by an afters in the Odeon. It would have been an absolute nightmare to have them at it. That was their wish for how they wanted to celebrate their wedding. It wasn't about wanting to be a princess for the day - it was about have a small, intimate wedding with their nearest and dearest. Imo, I would have been a Class A Shít to interject and say that I wasn't going to attend unless they invited my children.

    I had a fantastic day and me and the missus could let our hair down without having to worry about kids being entertained or overtired.

    Perfectly fine. If you were happy enough with that, it's great, no issue. Would you have felt the same way if your new sister in law decided to have her nieces and nephews there while your kids were excluded? Genuinely curious.

    On a personal level, I just wouldn't go to a close family wedding if my kids weren't considered a part of it. But then all my siblings have kids, so it would be strange for them not to part of such a celebration.


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    #690
    goz83
    Registered Users Posts: 8,034 ✭✭✭goz83


    LexieOnRale wrote: »
    Yeah absolutely people can choose to celebrate it or not, but to set out to boycott a siblings wedding and deliberately try ruin their day is a bit ****ty, and how would they know the niece was at the wedding if they didn't go?

    Clearly the grooms family weren't close. Maybe the brides family were much closer, hence her neice being invited. The paying party is under no obligation to justify themselves in regards to who or why someone was invited.

    The grooms family don't sound like they'd have added much to the party with that selfish attitude so, quality over quantity eh :)

    I couldn't say what their relationships were like and I would assume that the groom told his family that no kids (apart from the brides niece) were invited. The feeling I got from the thing was that the bride was just spoilt and wanted it her way. I don't think it's right to invite one or two kids from one side and exclude the rest from the other side. From my understanding of it, I would have been on the side of the grooms family, who didn't go. The groom had no spine.


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    #691
    kunst nugget
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭kunst nugget


    goz83 wrote: »
    Perfectly fine. If you were happy enough with that, it's great, no issue. Would you have felt the same way if your new sister in law decided to have her nieces and nephews there while your kids were excluded? Genuinely curious.

    On a personal level, I just wouldn't go to a close family wedding if my kids weren't considered a part of it. But then all my siblings have kids, so it would be strange for them not to part of such a celebration.

    If it's one child versus the 9 that are already in our family - which would mean a lot more expense - it wouldn't bother me too much. It's her prerogative. Somebody did bring their 6-7 week old baby to the ceremony iirc but I don't remember seeing them on the barge so I'm not sure what the story was there. It was no skin off my nose. I think there's better things to be worrying about and I don't feel like causing a family rift over something that is inconsequential.

    At the time of my brother's wedding, me and another brother had children. I can't speak for him but on the day he didn't seem put out either. I never heard him complaining about it.


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