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Kids in Cafes

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    #752
    Yeah_Right
    Registered Users Posts: 6,004 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    ScumLord wrote: »
    A wedding is not just about the bride and groom, in this day and age maybe it's become a self aggrandizing indulgence but it's meaning was legitimizing a relationship in front of a community and a license to start popping out sprogs.

    Not inviting children to a wedding is a pretty low and pathetic act as far as I'm concerned. Children are people too, they are part of the family, it's tantamount to telling all the men they couldn't attend. If the couple want to have "their day" do it in the privacy of their own own. If they want to have a traditional public event, then put up with the public.



    Just ban anyone under the age of 16. But you know you can't do that or you will lose a lot of your customers. Kids are part of the world, they're a major part of a lot of your customers lives and rather than fight against that reality it's about time you just find a way to live with it.

    Weddings are now a public event?!? :confused: WTF! Does this mean I can just stroll into any wedding and help my self to food and drink? I always thought they were invite only. Thanks for letting me know. Now I just need to find some weddings in the local area this weekend.

    I love how some people on here push the point that kids are a fact of life and if you are outside your house you have to accept that (and it's true). Yet they don't accept that the parents are responsible for supervising their kids.
    I don't care if you are in a cafe, a salon, the gym, on the Luas but supervising, entertaining, controlling and protecting your kids is your responsibility. It's not the job of the receptionist, the shopkeeper or some random stranger. There are times I see kids being kids and their parent ignoring them and part of me thinks "I hope that kid hurts themself (not too badly) so that parent wakes the **** up."


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    #753
    kunst nugget
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭kunst nugget


    ScumLord wrote: »
    A wedding is not just about the bride and groom, in this day and age maybe it's become a self aggrandizing indulgence but it's meaning was legitimizing a relationship in front of a community and a license to start popping out sprogs. Not inviting children to a wedding is a pretty low and pathetic act as far as I'm concerned. Children are people too, they are part of the family, it's tantamount to telling all the men they couldn't attend. If the couple want to have "their day" do it in the privacy of their own own. If they want to have a traditional public event, then put up with the public.

    Nonsense, the wedding day can be what the couple themselves choose it to be. If that means inviting children, that's their prerogative and that's great; if it means not inviting children, that's their prerogative and that's great. I would have thought the marriage equality referendum would have shown that people happily no longer subscribe to the traditional form of marriage and weddings but are able to choose what suits them best.


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    #754
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    TSMGUY wrote: »
    I suggested you get a "different job", not a job. Once again, your reading comprehension leaves a lot to be desired, assuming that wasn't just a pretext for insulting me.

    I'm a 19 year old who finished his Leaving Cert two months ago and is waiting for a place in Cambridge. You're a salon manager, presumably in your late twenties. Believe me when I say you have no grounds for condescending to me.

    Oh dear.

    Oh deary dear.

    I don't think any comment is necessary...


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    #755
    TSMGUY
    Closed Accounts Posts: 855 ✭✭✭TSMGUY


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Oh dear.

    Oh deary dear.

    I don't think any comment is necessary...[/QUOTEAnd yet you made one. Between that and Lexie sending me a friend request I'm seriously thinking you guys have multiple personality disorder.

    Again, sorry for not being Oliver Twist with a bowl of gruel, apologizing profusely for being unemployed scum. I should just be insulted and not reply? Cool. How egregious of me to defend myself.

    You know what, all of the losers and misanthropists with grudges against the young seem to gather en masse on this subforum so I'll just stop posting on AH altogether. No doubt you guys will continue to insult me even after I leave this thread, feck it. I won't disturb your dailymail groupthink sessions.


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    #756
    ScumLord
    Registered Users Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    Yeah_Right wrote: »
    Weddings are now a public event?!?
    They're public in the sense other people are expected to be there, I'll get to this again below.
    I love how some people on here push the point that kids are a fact of life and if you are outside your house you have to accept that (and it's true). Yet they don't accept that the parents are responsible for supervising their kids.
    Who said parents aren't expected to supervise their children? Could we stick to what's been actually said?
    kunst nugget wrote: »
    Nonsense, the wedding day can be what the couple themselves choose it to be.
    Up to a point. Technically they could invite the priest around to their house and have the wedding in private. But for most people it's about family, it's about extending and creating family. I just think it's wrong to expect your family to go to your wedding then tell a subsection of your family that you don't want them there, just because of what they are.


    But you're right, everyone's entitled to do what they like. They just shouldn't act so surprised when they get a negative response.


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    #757
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    TSMGUY wrote: »
    yet you made one. Between that and Lexie sending me a friend request I'm seriously thinking you guys have multiple personality disorder.
    ...
    You know what, all of the losers and misanthropists with grudges against the young seem to gather en masse on this subforum so I'll just stop posting on AH altogether...

    I'd say the colleges at Cambridge will be fighting each other to get this one in their doors!

    Railing about multiple personality disorder, losers and misanthropists...and followed by such a wonderful flounce. A tantrum to put any kid in the penny place...


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    #758
    Smondie
    Registered Users Posts: 1,193 ✭✭✭Smondie


    ScumLord wrote: »
    .. Technically they could invite the priest around to their house and have the wedding in private. .


    ...

    This isn't true. A wedding has to be held in an approved place. Your house will not be approved.


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    #759
    ScumLord
    Registered Users Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    Smondie wrote: »
    This isn't true. A wedding has to be held in an approved place. Your house will not be approved.
    I was working on the information "the wedding day can be what the couple themselves choose it to be."


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    #760
    anewme
    Registered Users Posts: 11,946 ✭✭✭✭anewme


    TSMGUY wrote: »
    I don't have to run a salon to critique a salon manager for the same reason you don't have to be a restaurant owner to criticize a restaurant or a programmer to criticize a ****ty app. Lexi isn't a parent but she seems to have no problem telling parents how to raise/supervise their children. You lack rudimentary logical thinking skills.

    The only thing I lack is tolerance for ignorant people.

    If you eat at a Restaurant and criticise it if its bad, that's fine, if you use an app and it has faults, that's fine.....you are a CUSTOMER.

    However, you are not a customer of a Beauty Salon or SPA, probably never been in one in your life and yet feel the right to tell the person running it they need a new job.

    That's just bizarre.

    She was not telling people how to supervise/raise their children, I think the case in point was she was saying She's not interested in supervising them.

    College teaches people a lot of things. Not common sense though. That's a life lesson. Self taught.


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    #761
    Keane2baMused
    Registered Users Posts: 1,576 ✭✭✭Keane2baMused


    A salon or Spa is absolutely no place for a child. I wouldn't dream of bringing my kids there. One they would bored sh1tless and two it's not a place for children.

    Same as pubs.

    I worked in a pub years ago and you'd be amazed at how people treated the place like a play centre.


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    #762
    Moo Moo Land
    Closed Accounts Posts: 735 ✭✭✭Moo Moo Land


    ScumLord wrote: »
    A wedding is not just about the bride and groom, in this day and age maybe it's become a self aggrandizing indulgence but it's meaning was legitimizing a relationship in front of a community and a license to start popping out sprogs.

    Not inviting children to a wedding is a pretty low and pathetic act as far as I'm concerned. Children are people too, they are part of the family, it's tantamount to telling all the men they couldn't attend. If the couple want to have "their day" do it in the privacy of their own own. If they want to have a traditional public event, then put up with the public.

    My guess is that only children can enjoy a "traditional" Irish wedding. I think most adults would prefer a letter from Revenue to a wedding invite.


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    #763
    ScumLord
    Registered Users Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    Keane2baMused wrote: »
    Same as pubs.

    I worked in a pub years ago and you'd be amazed at how people treated the place like a play centre.
    In a small town many pubs have no choice but to accommodate families with kids. I'm not opposed to children in pubs as long as the pub has made some provisions for the fact they know they get children. We see pubs as drinking holes but the whole business model of pubs is changing because people just aren't drinking as much. If you go back to what a pub actually is, a "public house" then there's no reason why they couldn't hold back on the drinks promotions and offer a family friendly place that also serves alcohol.

    If pubs want to survive they need to offer a family friendly experience, whether that's through serving food, or accommodating children.


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    #764
    Yeah_Right
    Registered Users Posts: 6,004 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    Why does a pub/cafe/salon have to make provisions for accommodating kids? The kids are the responsibility of the parents. If you want to take your kids out in public or onto a private business's premises, then you need to control them. It's not anyone else's responsibility.


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    #765
    kunst nugget
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭kunst nugget


    Yeah_Right wrote: »
    Why does a pub/cafe/salon have to make provisions for accommodating kids?

    They don't. They'd just be cutting off valuable sources of revenue, pubs and cafes much more so than salons.


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    #766
    ScumLord
    Registered Users Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    Yeah_Right wrote: »
    Why does a pub/cafe/salon have to make provisions for accommodating kids?
    Because a business can't afford to turn away the vast majority of people. I don't know what the stats are but I'd image parents make up the biggest consumer group in the country. The business can of course make the decision to not allow children, or not make any accommodations for them but if the competition next door makes those provisions and parents start going there instead then the first business goes under.


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    #767
    Judge Trudy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 137 ✭✭Judge Trudy


    Yeah_Right wrote: »
    Why does a pub/cafe/salon have to make provisions for accommodating kids? The kids are the responsibility of the parents. If you want to take your kids out in public or onto a private business's premises, then you need to control them. It's not anyone else's responsibility.

    Obviously it's the responsibility of the parents but if I go to a restaurant or cafe with my child, I expect good service in return also. One thing I see with cafes and restaurant nowadays, is that they try to accommodate children giving them wee toys or colouring pages and crayons. So simple but it's keeps the wee ones busy and occupied. I've been to other countries where they've had a small playground attached to a cafe and the like. Ireland is beginning to latch on to good service now but still has a long way to go.


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    #768
    ScumLord
    Registered Users Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    Judge Trudy wrote: »
    One thing I see with cafes and restaurant nowadays, is that they try to accommodate children giving them wee toys or colouring pages and crayons. So simple but it's keeps the wee ones busy and occupied.
    Places are getting very good at it too. I think if the staff engage the kids give them something to do, there's a certain hierarchy suggested to the kids at the same time. This is this person's place, she's been nice to you, so you be nice to her, do as she says. There might be ice cream later. Kids only really become too much when they get into larger groups. One or two can be dealt with easily enough.


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    #769
    Keane2baMused
    Registered Users Posts: 1,576 ✭✭✭Keane2baMused


    ScumLord wrote: »
    In a small town many pubs have no choice but to accommodate families with kids. I'm not opposed to children in pubs as long as the pub has made some provisions for the fact they know they get children. We see pubs as drinking holes but the whole business model of pubs is changing because people just aren't drinking as much. If you go back to what a pub actually is, a "public house" then there's no reason why they couldn't hold back on the drinks promotions and offer a family friendly place that also serves alcohol.

    If pubs want to survive they need to offer a family friendly experience, whether that's through serving food, or accommodating children.

    For the purpose of a family lunch I agree its fine.

    What I'm talking about though is parents sitting there for the evening drinking while their kids run around! It's not a place for children in that respect.


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    #770
    Winterlong
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,759 ✭✭✭Winterlong


    Keane2baMused wrote: »
    For the purpose of a family lunch I agree its fine.

    What I'm talking about though is parents sitting there for the evening drinking while their kids run around! It's not a place for children in that respect.

    Isn't there a law that kids have to be out of the pub by 8 or 9 or something?
    Even at that it is very late IMO.


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    #771
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 13,712 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I went into a local public library on my lunchbreak to track down a specific book. I was sitting there studying it, quite intently, when some surly Mama arrived with two small children.

    With an air of autocratic indifference, she whizzed her huge buggy merrily between the stacks, while her baby cried, and the fat toddler screeched nonsensical things at an alarming decibel.

    It was bad enough to be sitting there amid the old folks, with the unmistakeable scent of of urine and B.O. wafting through the air, but this woman's conduct was especially odious. At least the elderly lot know they stink and keep a clear distance. But no, not this woman, zipping and bashing around the small library, deaf to the cries of her spawnings, blind to the daggers of my scowling. No social awareness at all.


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    #772
    ScumLord
    Registered Users Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    Keane2baMused wrote: »
    For the purpose of a family lunch I agree its fine.

    What I'm talking about though is parents sitting there for the evening drinking while their kids run around! It's not a place for children in that respect.
    Generally no, I think it can depend on the venue though, if they're prepared for that kind of thing it's usually not too bad. A hotel bar/restaurant I'd kind of expect to always see kids coming and going. Your average pub that just does drink, not the place for kids.

    I just don't see why everyone has such a problem with kids running around having fun. That's what kids have always done. There doesn't seem to be any happy medium. We give out to the kids for having their nose stuck in an electronic device and when they stop doing that we give out that they're making too much noise and should sit down in a corner, staring at the wall presumably.


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    #773
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,375 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »
    I went into a local public library on my lunchbreak to track down a specific book. I was sitting there studying it, quite intently, when some surly Mama arrived with two small children.

    With an air of autocratic indifference, she whizzed her huge buggy merrily between the stacks, while her baby cried, and the fat toddler screeched nonsensical things at an alarming decibel.

    It was bad enough to be sitting there amid the old folks, with the unmistakeable scent of of urine and B.O. wafting through the air, but this woman's conduct was especially odious. At least the elderly lot know they stink and keep a clear distance. But no, not this woman, zipping and bashing around the small library, deaf to the cries of her spawnings, blind to the daggers of my scowling. No social awareness at all.

    None of that happened


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    #774
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 13,712 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    lawred2 wrote: »
    None of that happened
    It's a pretty uneventful anecdote involving a rude woman walking around Rathmines Public Library with a loud toddler and crying child.

    Not only did it happen, it's not remotely unusual in any public space. If I were going to invent an anecdote, I'd at least have the Mama in pyjamas.

    Spend a lunchtime in Rathmines public library someday. It's full of incontinent old folks & surly children.


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    #775
    Yeah_Right
    Registered Users Posts: 6,004 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    ScumLord wrote: »
    Generally no, I think it can depend on the venue though, if they're prepared for that kind of thing it's usually not too bad. A hotel bar/restaurant I'd kind of expect to always see kids coming and going. Your average pub that just does drink, not the place for kids.

    I just don't see why everyone has such a problem with kids running around having fun. That's what kids have always done. There doesn't seem to be any happy medium. We give out to the kids for having their nose stuck in an electronic device and when they stop doing that we give out that they're making too much noise and should sit down in a corner, staring at the wall presumably.

    I don't think any reasonable person has an issue with kids running around, having fun, making noise etc. But is a cafe, restaurant, pub the appropriate place? If it has facilities catering to children, then great. I am happy for families to go there and have a great time.

    There's a place and time for everything and some parents seem to believe that every where and any time is for their kids to do whatever they want.


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    #776
    goz83
    Registered Users Posts: 8,034 ✭✭✭goz83


    Deleted User wrote: »
    That's pretty depressing.

    I have siblings who had the no kids rule at their weddings. I have siblings who had kids at their wedding. We had 2 afair, the page boy and flower girl. I can't remember one type as being particularly better or worse. But staying away because of the kids thing is making a very strong statement.

    I would imagine the situation would have panned out differently had there been a general rule of no kids at the wedding that the bride also followed. The bride having her niece as an exception seemed to be the big issue. If you can't see how that would cause a divide, then it can't be taught. I personally felt more sorry for the niece. She couldn't have been more than 5, or 6 and was stuck with a couple dozen adults, listening to crappy music.

    LexieOnRale wrote: »
    There is a no children policy in the salon, and it's a pretty popular policy in most salons and spas as its not a suitable environment for children. 95% of the clients respect it, but you'll always have the few that don't.

    I'm genuinely curious as to why you can't just put up a sign to say that children under x age cannot be catered to for insurance reasons? I know the salon under my office never has children in there. Maybe I am missing something.


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    #777
    qo2cj1dsne8y4k
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,646 ✭✭✭✭qo2cj1dsne8y4k


    goz83 wrote: »
    :)
    I'm genuinely curious as to why you can't just put up a sign to say that children under x age cannot be catered to for insurance reasons? I know the salon under my office never has children in there. Maybe I am missing something.

    There is a sign up, and it is on our website. Like I said, most people abide by it but occasionally you have parents who completely ignore it.

    It's not so bad if they're coming in for a 15 min treatment, the baby is in a buggy etc. It's a different story when the child is expected to sit there for almost two hours completely fed up. We do say it in a nice way, you know that reception is not always attended etc and the children are not allowed near the stairs so no wandering to treatment rooms, the parent will usually say the baby sitter let her down or that the school holidays means she has no free time.

    Because the appointment can take up to 2 hours, if the client is a no show or wastes that appointment, they're charged 50% of the price because it's a very expensive treatment and we have a cancellation list with people waiting for appointments, so I guess as the manager I'm wary about asking a parent to leave because she has her child with her as she will still be charged 50% for "wasting" the appointment, and I don't want our salon to end up on the front page of AH berating the place for not being child friendly and causing stress and embarrassment on being asked to leave, as per what happened when asked to leave a restaurant at lunch time


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    #778
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    goz83 wrote: »
    I would imagine the situation would have panned out differently had there been a general rule of no kids at the wedding that the bride also followed. The bride having her niece as an exception seemed to be the big issue. If you can't see how that would cause a divide, then it can't be taught...

    I can see now it might cause minor irritation.

    At one of the weddings where kids were banned, one brother strode in with his.

    It was no big deal, no scenes, no one walked out. It was laughed off and everyone got on with the important thing that day, the marriage, not who was invited and who wasn't.

    But to boycott a wedding because only one kid was allowed sounds like there are other issues. I mean, there has to be some cut off, I invited some cousins and not others (I have about 80 first cousins), some neighbours but not all, 2 kids only etc. No big deal.


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    #779
    Sue Pa Key Pa
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,060 ✭✭✭Sue Pa Key Pa


    TSMGUY wrote: »

    You know what, all of the losers and misanthropists with grudges against the young seem to gather en masse on this subforum so I'll just stop posting on AH altogether. No doubt you guys will continue to insult me even after I leave this thread, feck it. I won't disturb your dailymail groupthink sessions.

    Do you seriously think people are arguing with you because you are young and it's not just the content of your posts? You may have a bright future ahead of you, but wait until you start out before you criticise the journey others have already undertaken


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    #780
    goz83
    Registered Users Posts: 8,034 ✭✭✭goz83


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I can see now it might cause minor irritation.

    At one of the weddings where kids were banned, one brother strode in with his.

    It was no big deal, no scenes, no one walked out. It was laughed off and everyone got on with the important thing that day, the marriage, not who was invited and who wasn't.

    But to boycott a wedding because only one kid was allowed sounds like there are other issues. I mean, there has to be some cut off, I invited some cousins and not others (I have about 80 first cousins), some neighbours but not all, 2 kids only etc. No big deal.

    What family doesn't have issues though? I'm sure there was more to it alright, but I don't even recall the bride and grooms name and I caught the story from someone having a good ole gossip. I suppose it was the straw that broke the camels back and there was a domino effect at that wedding. Fwiw, the woman gossipping was the brides Auntie :pac: She clearly didn't like her niece and had a loose tongue after a couple of vodkas.

    Anyway, the bride wanted an exclusive wedding, she just got more (or less) than she bargained for. Maybe she was happy with the savings made from all the people who refused to attend. A drop from over 100 to a couple dozen mouths is a big saving. It was both entertaining and sad to listen to. Reminded me of my friends wedding, where his own mother refused to attend because there had been a family fight a few weeks before hand. The brides mother also didn't attend. Glad to say I had none of that rubbish at my own wedding. An uncle and a friend were no shows, but certainly weren't missed on the day and their seats were conveniently filled by a couple of extra +1s. Was the best wedding I had ever been at. Whiskey flowed all day :D


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    #781
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    goz83 wrote: »
    Glad to say I had none of that rubbish at my own wedding. An uncle and a friend were no shows, but certainly weren't missed on the day and their seats were conveniently filled by a couple of extra +1s. Was the best wedding I had ever been at. Whiskey flowed all day :D

    And that there is one of the reasons why many believe it's not a great place for kids. Cos alcohol tends to flow, and understandably. I myself don't really like the whole parents on drink (or worse, one looking glum cos they can't and who'll want to go when the kids tire) and kids running and skidding up and down the dance floor. We wanted our guests to get a night out and leave the kids, so it was more a social event than a chore or to be endured - as, let's face it, so many weddings really are for the guests.


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