New puppy need advice

Aineoil

We have a new puppy who's adorable. He's a labrador sheepdog cross with an adorable temperament. He's 10 weeks old.

We need to get him a run outside. We live in rural Ireland on a very busy main road. We have a large garden but there's no way we can leave him outside the house as I fear he would wander out onto the road. He's a very curious soul.

I just need advice on what kind of run to get. I have done a few internet searches but it is a little confusing on what size to get etc. He's a little pup at the moment and I know he'll get bigger, so can you buy a run you can extend as he gets bigger?

I only want the run for about 40 minutes per day. I try to walk him every day, but he hates it. I can understand that...the collar and lead are new to him.

HarrietD

We recently got 2 rescue puppies and live in a similar situation to you - rural but busy road with a large garden. The rescue obviously insists on an enclosed garden so we got our whole back garden fenced in with chain link fencing and gates at a number of points similar to a run only huge. The fencing runs behind the existing trees/hedge so isn't intrusive or ugly. It wasn't cheap but so worth it as we can happily let them out the back door knowing they are safe and they are not restricted, can run in and out of the house and be part of the family without the stress of having to know where they are every minute. If you can afford something similar I would highly recommend it.

Stigura

Aineoil; Have ye considered a light chain set up, till ye get ye place fenced?

As he's just a puppy yet, a harness would be better than a collar, for a chain rig.

I've lived in this place for ten years now. Had a load of Dogs, over those years. All spent time on their chains. Never had one object to, or have any problem with one.

Took me a number of years to completely Dog Proof my entire compound. But, I did it. Now? I open the door. Cry; " Fresh Air, Dogs! " And out they rush. Me? I get the kettle on!

There's not a lot to beat knowing that ye Dogs can't get off ye land. Can't come to harm. Fencing sorts that out.

You sort ye fencing out. Meanwhile? Pop ye pup on a light chain.

I can send ye extremely clear and detailed instructions, how to rig a Dog Chain. It needs doing right. Makes for very happy, safe, Dogs.

But, yeah; Fencing Is the Holy Grail. It just doesn't happen over night ~ unless ye have a LOT of money! :eek:

sillysmiles

TBH if it were me with a 10 week old puppy - I'd have them in the house with me and bring them out rather than letting them just wander around the garden. This I think should help with toilet training etc too.

If it is only for 40 mnutes per day can you crate train him?

Aineoil

Thank you for all the replies. My internet was down today so I am sorry I didn't reply earlier.

Harriet D, I would love to fence our house too but the perimeter around the house would cost a fortune to fence. Thank you for your post.

Stigura, thanks for your post as well. I will consider a chain. I was afraid to go that road as I thought it cruel but he needs his space.

Sillysmiles, thanks for your post too. He doesn't wander around the garden, he's too young and we couldn't possibly let him do that as we we live on top of a main road. He's in the house nearly all the time, we take him out for walks on a leash around the garden - three or four times a day at a 15 minute session. My 19 year old son advocates crate training too. But I don't know, our gorgeous puppy is so cute, I don't know if I can do that. Maybe I am too soft?

For a young pup he behaves so well, he has his daily puppy rush, but otherwise he's so good.

maggiepip

If you can't fence off your garden Id stick to your original idea of a run. Much nicer and safer than chaining a dog up, which I would never recommend, and, aside from the ethics of it, is not safe for the dog. You say you'll only be using it for short periods, so a nice sized run wold be fine, the bigger the better!
Whether you crate train or not is up to you, but thats not a solution for outdoors.
The only other option might be to fence off a smaller area of your garden?

Stigura

maggiepip wrote: »

..... a run. Much nicer and safer than chaining a dog up, which I would never recommend, and, aside from the ethics of it, is not safe for the dog.

Maggiepip; If you really want to publicly deride and challenge my ethics, around Dogs. And suggest I use, and proselytise " Unsafe " treatments of them?

By all means; Crack open a thread titled, say, " Chaining Dogs ". That way, I can happily, publicly, and within the constraints of this board, take you to the cleaners Discuss the issue with you and anyone else

For years, I was vehemently opposed to the notion of putting a Dog in a cage ~ let alone on a properly constructed Chain. I am now ready to admit; I too was completely ignorant and based my views on blind emotional imaginings.

Now? I've gone through a great many years of actual experience. Including dead Dogs. I'm now happy with a bit of caging. A spot of chaining. All in their time and place.

But; Dog Proof Fencing of ones entire property should Always be the goal of anyone hoping to keep a safe and happy Dog.


And, Aineoil? If you're so much as considering rigging a Dog Chain? Please PM me a dead letter drop email addy where I can send you my photographic guide to their construction. I made that for someone else and still have it on file.

Suffice to say that I'd much sooner leave my Dogs on their chains, while I go into town, or off on some hours long errand, than I would walk away and leave them behind even my fencing.

pawrick

I bought a run for my dog about a year ago from brenken.ie

The larger the run the better. The type I bought comes in panels so you can add to it as needed and it was very easy to put together. I believe a number of retailers sell very similar runs to the supplier i got mine from.

Things to note, get a roof on it to protect your dog from the sun and rain. Put it in a sheltered location, I've mine along my shed to protect from wind and also this saves on panels on one side to allow you extend the run further. The smaller the bar/chain gaps the better seeing as your dog is a pup.

Buy a strong run which is galvanised so it wont rust easily, rain and dog urine can rust the metal, this is more of a problem if you have a male dog which might urinate on the panels.

All that said I've only used my own dog run about 5 times in the past year for my dog as she's usually with me and stays in the house.

Chain - I use a plastic coated metal wire chain to keep her secure when ever I'm mowing the lawn as she likes to see what I'm up to. Or occasionally if the weather is good enough I'll let her have a bone to chew in the grass. The plastic coated ones are less likely to rust or get wrapped. I have it attached to a ground spike in a block which can be moved as I go around the garden to keep her in sight. There are chain runner set ups which can be safer if leaving a dog unattended but for my situation what i have is perfect for me and my dog considering she is never left alone while outside. Ideally I would love to allow her free roam of the garden but unfortunately my fencing is not secure enough and I'm surrounded by fields of sheep who love nothing better than to try and break the fences I do have.

tk123

Aineoil wrote: »

. My 19 year old son advocates crate training too. But I don't know, our gorgeous puppy is so cute, I don't know if I can do that. Maybe I am too soft?
.

You need to get over the whole crate = cage = cruel. Sure a run is just a bigger crate no? If you crate train properly the pup will want to go to the crate to relax and chill our. It's not a punishment. I have a crate in the kitchen and my two dogs will race in to try and get it before the other - they love it!'

If it's only for 40 mins a day just crate him with a Kong and save yourself some money.

Don't chain a puppy up either unsupervised because it's an accident waiting to happen - the same way you wouldn't leave a lead or house line attached to a young pup.

EDITed to add - Lucy and Bailey traumatised in the crate

DBB

Stigura wrote: »

Maggiepip; If you really want to publicly deride and challenge my ethics, around Dogs. And suggest I use, and proselytise " Unsafe " treatments of them?

By all means; Crack open a thread titled, say, " Chaining Dogs ". That way, I can happily, publicly, and within the constraints of this board, take you to the cleaners Discuss the issue with you and anyone else

Stigura, a couple of points.
You're sailing very close to the rule against backseat moderating here asking another poster to start a new thread and attempting to control how or where other people should post.
Secondly, your tone comes across as rather aggressive. In this discussion forum, posters are allowed to disagree with one another and still expect to be replied to in a respectful, non-aggressive, and non-caustic manner. Please dial it back.
Do not reply to this post on thread.
Thanks,
DBB

sillysmiles

Aineoil wrote: »

.

My 19 year old son advocates crate training too. But I don't know, our gorgeous puppy is so cute, I don't know if I can do that. Maybe I am too soft?

I think it is definitely worth your while reading up on crate training. IT gives them a safe space that is theirs to retreat to.
Personally also, if you pup is not used to being outside alone, is it not better to leave them in the kitchen with their bed while you are out, rather than alone in a space they aren't used to? But then my dog is asleep on his bed in the kitchen when we aren't home and only goes outside when we are outside. At weekends, when we are home, he'll lie on the deck looking in so long as we leave the door open for him. He would never prefer to be outside without us.
Personally if I got a puppy, or a second dog, I'd have to crate train. The flexibilty it gives in terms of being able to travel and manage the dog and keep him from getting stressed in new situations is worth it.

Choc Chip

sillysmiles wrote: »

I think it is definitely worth your while reading up on crate training. IT gives them a safe space that is theirs to retreat to.
Personally also, if you pup is not used to being outside alone, is it not better to leave them in the kitchen with their bed while you are out, rather than alone in a space they aren't used to? But then my dog is asleep on his bed in the kitchen when we aren't home and only goes outside when we are outside. At weekends, when we are home, he'll lie on the deck looking in so long as we leave the door open for him. He would never prefer to be outside without us.
Personally if I got a puppy, or a second dog, I'd have to crate train. The flexibilty it gives in terms of being able to travel and manage the dog and keep him from getting stressed in new situations is worth it.

Plus (as long as they aren't abused) crates prevent puppies from making mistakes when you're not able to concentrate on them and re-direct their attention away from tasty power cables, shoes, the couch...

aonb

As long as your dog is safe, since you live on a busy road, this is all that matters. If he is going out into your property at all - to pee/poo/nose around, which all dogs ADORE - you will need to have some way of keeping him off the road. Whether you put up a line that runs the length of the property, with him attached by a ring on his collar, or Enclose a smaller space around the back door to contain him, or put him in a run, if he is loved and safe, and well fed and homed, putting him on a line/rope (chains are cold/hard/noisy things that make your dog "look badly treated or dangerous in most peoples eyes??) to keep him safely on your property, where he can have a poo and a sniff and a sunbathe and a laze around, whether he is in a run, on a rope or whatever, if he is SAFE from the cars on the road, that is all that matters.
Your garden layout, your budget, your dogs temprement will all determine what solution you come up with. Im sure you know you cant leave him unsupervised outside when he's so young for an instant - with the collie in him, he will be nosy and inquisitive, and will probably make a beeline for the road.

We have a huge garden here, but luckily our road is pretty deserted. When we started off, all our dogs when small were put in a 'playpen' outside to get fresh air and be outside when fine for a stretch every day, then we had the puppies penned into the patio area - makeshift area hacked together with all sorts. Then on a line rigged up on the lawn - they would wander up and down the line for about 100m, eventually we fenced in the entire back area - cost a fortune, but with 3 dogs wandering around, had to be done.

For the most part, our dogs spend about 99% of their time indoors. They sunbathe on the patios when its sunny, they go outside to pee and have a sniff, but rarely go up near our front gates.

Aineoil

My thanks to you all, HarrietD, Stigura, Sillysmiles, magiepip, pawrick, tk123, ChocChio and aonb.

All of the feedback has been truly helpful and I am researching it all. I respect and now understand about crates.

pawrick thanks for the information on the panels. That's what I think we need. We have a front garden and a side garden roughly one acre in size. We would put the run on the side garden which is the furthest point from the road. We have two circular lawns enclosed by hedges. The second enclosed lawn can't really be seen because of the hedges. So I think that this might be the best place for him to have a run.

aonb, he's a nosey boy, we should have called him Curious George. He hasn't been left unsupervised since we got him. he has the undivided attention of three adults. I'm not sure if that is a good idea either, but he loves the attention.

Choc Chip he loves shoes, but we knew he would, so he has a selection of shoes I was going to throw out to chew on. Still doesn't stop him from finding my good shoes. He loves cables too and the couch and the fringes on our rugs. But we still love him.

aonb

BTW, a photo would be nice!?!

Aineoil

aonb wrote: »

BTW, a photo would be nice!?!

Meet Mister Klopp.

https://postimg.org/image/oot1lsnlp/

https://postimg.org/image/x8cfjjvy5/6b1064d9/

I sincerely hope this works. I've spent the last hour and a half learning how to upload photos to boards.

Aineoil

I can't believe it, the links work. Who says you can't teach an old dog new tricks! (That's me by the way)

Aineoil

I have many questions but I'll only post them in order of need as I don't want to drive you all mad.

How do you deal with the whimpering? If my husband leaves the house he whimpers, cries and claws the door. I bring him out around the house for a walk and it distracts Klopp for the 15 minutes we are outside. He has his own mind, when he doesn't want to walk anymore he just sits down and refuses to move.

When we go back inside he starts whimpering again unless I play with him. I don't mind playing a little but I need to get work done around the house too.

If I go to the bathroom and I close the door he whimpers. When I have a shower he whimpers. When I try to get dressed and close the bedroom door on him he whimpers. I hate him being sad.

I'm not complaining as I knew a new puppy was going to be a big learning curve, but I don't want to encourage any bad habits in him either. Any ideas on what to do to stop his whimpering?

ShaShaBear

Aineoil wrote: »

I have many questions but I'll only post them in order of need as I don't want to drive you all mad.

How do you deal with the whimpering? If my husband leaves the house he whimpers, cries and claws the door. I bring him out around the house for a walk and it distracts Klopp for the 15 minutes we are outside. He has his own mind, when he doesn't want to walk anymore he just sits down and refuses to move.

When we go back inside he starts whimpering again unless I play with him. I don't mind playing a little but I need to get work done around the house too.

If I go to the bathroom and I close the door he whimpers. When I have a shower he whimpers. When I try to get dressed and close the bedroom door on him he whimpers. I hate him being sad.

I'm not complaining as I knew a new puppy was going to be a big learning curve, but I don't want to encourage any bad habits in him either. Any ideas on what to do to stop his whimpering?

The whimpering is likely just not liking being separated from you all but as you mentioned not encouraging bad habits, take those shoes off him pronto. A dog, no matter the age, will never be able to tell the difference between those shoes you are dumping and the new ones you bought for that wedding at the weekend for example. Setting yourself up for a whole world of bother!

tk123

Aineoil wrote: »

If I go to the bathroom and I close the door he whimpers. When I have a shower he whimpers. When I try to get dressed and close the bedroom door on him he whimpers. I hate him being sad.

I'm not complaining as I knew a new puppy was going to be a big learning curve, but I don't want to encourage any bad habits in him either. Any ideas on what to do to stop his whimpering?

These are are all perfect situations for you to crate the pup with a Kong/chew/toy etc so he can learn to settle by himself. Especially if you're planning on having a run outside. You want him happy and relaxed by himself not freaking out trying to get to you.

aonb

That is the most serious scrap of cuteness ever! Im amazed you get anything done with him around.
So, how long do you have him? he is still a baby, his littermates and mother are gone, so you and your husband are replacements! You need to work very hard right now to make sure that you build up his confidence as much as possible, and get him used to being on his own, so that he isnt anxious/stressy later on.
I always leave a radio on, and a light on when I leave a dog for any length of time.
You could invest in some sort of 'gate' (make one! buy one in a charity shop) to separate puppy from you while you work, he can see you and knows you are there. I would leave him in a room for a few minutes at a time, let him cry, then go back into the room and cuddle him so he knows that you are still there - increase the time very slowly and gradually, so he knows you will always come back! Build his confidence up as much as you can - you want a confident happy little dog, not a nervous wreck. Introduce him to as many dogs as you possibly can as early as possible (after hes vaccinated) this is critical - early socialization will make him a more confident dog. Introduce him to as many people too - let them walk away from you with him on his leash for a few yards, so he sees you, but he is with someone else. Leave him in a friends/relatives house with someone while you go out to the car or whatever. Leave him supervised with small children and young children for a few minutes. Its really important to introduce him to as many positive different experiences as possible at this age. Then when he has fun, and knows you are nearby, every experience adds to his conifidence

Aineoil

aonb wrote: »

That is the most serious scrap of cuteness ever! Im amazed you get anything done with him around.
So, how long do you have him? he is still a baby, his littermates and mother are gone, so you and your husband are replacements! You need to work very hard right now to make sure that you build up his confidence as much as possible, and get him used to being on his own, so that he isnt anxious/stressy later on.
I always leave a radio on, and a light on when I leave a dog for any length of time.
You could invest in some sort of 'gate' (make one! buy one in a charity shop) to separate puppy from you while you work, he can see you and knows you are there. I would leave him in a room for a few minutes at a time, let him cry, then go back into the room and cuddle him so he knows that you are still there - increase the time very slowly and gradually, so he knows you will always come back! Build his confidence up as much as you can - you want a confident happy little dog, not a nervous wreck. Introduce him to as many dogs as you possibly can as early as possible (after hes vaccinated) this is critical - early socialization will make him a more confident dog. Introduce him to as many people too - let them walk away from you with him on his leash for a few yards, so he sees you, but he is with someone else. Leave him in a friends/relatives house with someone while you go out to the car or whatever. Leave him supervised with small children and young children for a few minutes. Its really important to introduce him to as many positive different experiences as possible at this age. Then when he has fun, and knows you are nearby, every experience adds to his conifidence

Thanks so much for the reply.

He's so cute and adorable. I have put him in another room for about a minute, but I have given into him as I get upset because he's upset. Then when I open the door to him he's all licks and big eyes.

We will have Klopp three weeks on Monday 8th of August. He got the last vaccinations on Friday, so according to the vet he won't be able to be with other dogs we don't know for about a week.

He has played with other dogs we know that have had their vaccines. That was interesting, the older dogs were annoyed with certain things he did.

Now here's another question...he keeps nipping my hands and feet. I keep saying no to him. Obviously the word no means nothing to him. But how do I stop nipping?....He's not biting just nipping.

He climbs on my back trying to bite my hair...not in a hurtful way.

aonb

nipping and biting etc is play - thats what he did with his littermates, its what puppies do, for play. If he starts nipping/biting, a loud no and turn your back on him. He will soon get the message. Or you Distract him when he starts to nip - have a toy or something interesting/chewable/squeeky etc in your pocket at all times (!) You have to show him now what is acceptable or not - turning your back on or ignoring him will show him what hes doing/done is not acceptable.

Older dogs will accept a certain amount from puppies - when the puppy oversteps whats acceptable to the dog, the puppy will be put in his place. You should just be careful that he is supervised, when playing with new dogs. Some dogs will let a puppy be a complete pest, then very quickly snap or growl or just leave. Puppy soon gets the message.

Small puppies can be a pest/nuisance, keep them stimulated and busy and the nuisance stage soon passes! Have a good selection of puppy safe toys. Go to your local charity shops and pick up some little bits and pieces - soft plastic toys for chewing - when they start teething especially. A few furry toys (remove any unsafe bits) for chewing and tearing apart (!) - I buy these by the bagload for my guy (20c/each cos I buy the things no child would want!) Get some puppy treats and do a bit of training, its never to early to learn some basic commands. Lots of little walks. A paddling pool is great fun - or a basin or baby bath. Put a ball to bob in the water! Smear some peanut butter in a puppy sized Kong. Freeze some probiotic plain yogurt in an icecube tray for chewing. Some balls to throw and have him chase. All ideas to keep him busy and distracted and entertained. He'll sleep lots after a bit of play time.

ENjoy him, the puppy stage never lasts long

Aineoil

aonb thanks for all the heplful information. It's much appreciated. I play with him loads and afterwards he's wrecked tired.

Aineoil

He's growing at a monster rate. The puppy bed we bought him is not really for him at all, as he is too big for it now.

He has pulled out most of the stuffing of the puppy bed and has made a good attempt at chewing and trashing it. I don't mind, he's a very, very good boy,

Need help with toilet training. How do you go about it? I can clean after him so much.

ShaShaBear

Aineoil wrote: »

He's growing at a monster rate. The puppy bed we bought him is not really for him at all, as he is too big for it now.

He has pulled out most of the stuffing of the puppy bed and has made a good attempt at chewing and trashing it. I don't mind, he's a very, very good boy,

Need help with toilet training. How do you go about it? I can clean after him so much.

I know you say you don't mind, but as I mentioned earlier with the shoes issue, you really need to start teaching him that only his toys are for chewing. Lest some day you find it's your couch instead of his bed!

Toilet training is a long process - you need to be taking him outside at regular intervals after eating, drinking, playing, exercising and napping as well as during the night (you don't leave paper or pads down during the night or at any other time for that matter). When he is outside, use a cue word or phrase that you don't mind people hearing you say, like "Go pee" or "Get busy" and make a MONSTROUS CELEBRATORY SUCCESS PARTY every time he goes. If he has an accident inside and you don't catch him, simply clean the mess and ignore (use biological cleaning agents to properly remove the smell). If you catch him mid-accident, simply rush him outside and encourage him to finish out there. Be warned, it is normal for it to take months for a pup to learn to go outside and be accident-free during the day and night.

borderlinemeath

Just to add to above, crate training is an excellent tool for house training. Pups are taught by their mother not to soil where they sleep, so your pup should keep his crate/bed clean. I always feed in crates to create a positive association with the crate, and about 15mins to half an hour after eating you can bring him outside (as he should be ready to go to the toilet at this stage) and praise him when he goes. From reading your posts I can tell you have mixed feelings about the concept of using a crate, but once a dog is acclimatised to it properly, they learn to love it - it's their space to chill out in, whereas from your point of view, your puppy is safe from eating stuff he shouldn't. Today it's your old shoes, tomorrow it's new shoes, or worse still table legs/chairs, skirting boards or something that could cause a blockage and need surgery. I've mentioned on this forum before of a dog I know that needed surgery to remove a piece of hard plastic hoover nozzle, even though his owners had him "safely" in the utility room! Not only surgery but a couple of stressful nights in the vets, which may have been less stressful if the dog was crate trained and used to being in a crate/confined type space. It will also help when you get a run for him in the garden.

hairyprincess

ShaShaBear wrote: »

I know you say you don't mind, but as I mentioned earlier with the shoes issue, you really need to start teaching him that only his toys are for chewing. Lest some day you find it's your couch instead of his bed!

Toilet training is a long process - you need to be taking him outside at regular intervals after eating, drinking, playing, exercising and napping as well as during the night (you don't leave paper or pads down during the night or at any other time for that matter). When he is outside, use a cue word or phrase that you don't mind people hearing you say, like "Go pee" or "Get busy" and make a MONSTROUS CELEBRATORY SUCCESS PARTY every time he goes. If he has an accident inside and you don't catch him, simply clean the mess and ignore (use biological cleaning agents to properly remove the smell). If you catch him mid-accident, simply rush him outside and encourage him to finish out there. Be warned, it is normal for it to take months for a pup to learn to go outside and be accident-free during the day and night.

Do you not think the training pads should be used?

ShaShaBear

hairyprincess wrote: »

Do you not think the training pads should be used?

Definitely not!
All training pads do is teach the puppy its okay to pee and poop inside once its on another surface other than the floor. You could easily find the puppy to start going inside because it was okay before

Aineoil

ShaShaBear wrote: »

I know you say you don't mind, but as I mentioned earlier with the shoes issue, you really need to start teaching him that only his toys are for chewing. Lest some day you find it's your couch instead of his bed!

Toilet training is a long process - you need to be taking him outside at regular intervals after eating, drinking, playing, exercising and napping as well as during the night (you don't leave paper or pads down during the night or at any other time for that matter). When he is outside, use a cue word or phrase that you don't mind people hearing you say, like "Go pee" or "Get busy" and make a MONSTROUS CELEBRATORY SUCCESS PARTY every time he goes. If he has an accident inside and you don't catch him, simply clean the mess and ignore (use biological cleaning agents to properly remove the smell). If you catch him mid-accident, simply rush him outside and encourage him to finish out there. Be warned, it is normal for it to take months for a pup to learn to go outside and be accident-free during the day and night.

Thanks for the advice, I really appreciate it. I was leaving out newspaper for him to do his business inside. It's now gone. Thanks for that.

Yesterday he made a poo inside. I made no fuss about it, just cleaned it up. But today was a great success. We brought him for a good long walk. He came home ravenous, ate and drank loads.

About 15 mins after he ate I brought him outside and I waited about 20 mins until he did his business. I forgot about using a cue word. But I will learn.

I brought him inside afterwards and we made a major fuss of him. Play, cuddles, petted him more than normal, gave him half of a doggie rasher as a treat.

He chews. But I'm firm with him and will only let him chew his toys. He knows now that he can only chew his toys. Now that doesn't stop him from trying to chew stuff he doesn't but he knows he's being a naughty boy.

Thanks again for the advice.

Aineoil

borderlinemeath wrote: »

Just to add to above, crate training is an excellent tool for house training. Pups are taught by their mother not to soil where they sleep, so your pup should keep his crate/bed clean. I always feed in crates to create a positive association with the crate, and about 15mins to half an hour after eating you can bring him outside (as he should be ready to go to the toilet at this stage) and praise him when he goes. From reading your posts I can tell you have mixed feelings about the concept of using a crate, but once a dog is acclimatised to it properly, they learn to love it - it's their space to chill out in, whereas from your point of view, your puppy is safe from eating stuff he shouldn't. Today it's your old shoes, tomorrow it's new shoes, or worse still table legs/chairs, skirting boards or something that could cause a blockage and need surgery. I've mentioned on this forum before of a dog I know that needed surgery to remove a piece of hard plastic hoover nozzle, even though his owners had him "safely" in the utility room! Not only surgery but a couple of stressful nights in the vets, which may have been less stressful if the dog was crate trained and used to being in a crate/confined type space. It will also help when you get a run for him in the garden.

Thank you for your post.

After reading what you and everyone else posted I think a crate is the way to go. At the moment when he needs a sanctuary, he retreats under the armchair I always sit in, in the sitting room. So he does need a special chill out space that is his own.

The hoover drives him wild and he tries to fight it. When it stops he tries to bite it. We are so protective of him, he has never been on his own or out of our sight since we got him.

Should we allow him to be on his own?

borderlinemeath

Aineoil wrote: »

Thank you for your post.

After reading what you and everyone else posted I think a crate is the way to go. At the moment when he needs a sanctuary, he retreats under the armchair I always sit in, in the sitting room. So he does need a special chill out space that is his own.

The hoover drives him wild and he tries to fight it. When it stops he tries to bite it. We are so protective of him, he has never been on his own or out of our sight since we got him.

Should we allow him to be on his own?

Yes, he needs to develop the coping mechanism for being on his own, otherwise he may develop separation anxiety. Someday soon, you're all going to go out for lunch/dinner/an occasion and if he's left home alone and he hasn't learned how to cope, he could get so stressed out that he could howl/pee/poo/chew and even do damage to himself if he was really anxious.

Start with tiny amounts of time alone, throw a few treats on the floor and go out for maybe one minute. If he doesn't whine or get distressed up the time outside the door in maybe one minute intervals. If he whines, don't comfort him or show affection, he'll think that whining gets him the reward of affection and will continue it! So if he whines come in as if nothing happened and only show affection when he's quiet and calm. The longer you can leave him maybe up the treat to something like a stuffed kong which can maybe distract him for 10-15mins.

hairyprincess

ShaShaBear wrote: »

Definitely not!
All training pads do is teach the puppy its okay to pee and poop inside once its on another surface other than the floor. You could easily find the puppy to start going inside because it was okay before

I thought that but wondered was there another reason that I hadn't considered!

Can anyone recommend what size crate for a cocker? I wasn't convinced about getting one but after reading here and other fora I've decided it's the way to go for us.

Aineoil

borderlinemeath wrote: »

Yes, he needs to develop the coping mechanism for being on his own, otherwise he may develop separation anxiety. Someday soon, you're all going to go out for lunch/dinner/an occasion and if he's left home alone and he hasn't learned how to cope, he could get so stressed out that he could howl/pee/poo/chew and even do damage to himself if he was really anxious.

Start with tiny amounts of time alone, throw a few treats on the floor and go out for maybe one minute. If he doesn't whine or get distressed up the time outside the door in maybe one minute intervals. If he whines, don't comfort him or show affection, he'll think that whining gets him the reward of affection and will continue it! So if he whines come in as if nothing happened and only show affection when he's quiet and calm. The longer you can leave him maybe up the treat to something like a stuffed kong which can maybe distract him for 10-15mins.

Thanks again for the advice. This is going to take some time. I knew I fussed over him too much at the beginning, but he was so little and scared at his new environment. I know I am to blame for indulging him. Since we got him he's never been alone.

I will try 1 minute intervals of separation tomorrow, fingers crossed it will work. He's a very fast learner (but I would say that) he managed to poo outside again today! Again we made a major fuss of his success.

Whatever dry day we had lately I went to hang clothes on the line and I brought him with me on a leash. Then I tied the leash to a water tap while I hung up the clothes. He could see me all the time (I was about 7/8 feet away from him) and I talked to him, but he whined incessantly.

He goes insane when we eat meals or get chinese or pizza. I know the smells drive him crazy. So we put Klopp in the porch with his own food, water and his toys. He whines like crazy and scratches at the door. Then I start to feel guilty that he's excluded.

Sorry for such a long post, but I feel like the wicked step mother when he whines.

As an aside, when he nips me I tell him no biting and I shake my finger at him. Now he has learned to put up his paw and shake it at me! I am not codding you....

Aineoil

ShashaBear, thanks for the toilet training advice. He had an accident inside today. No big deal we cleaned it up. But he had a major success again outside!

He ran in to the house, in puppy rush mode all over the moon with himself. We made a great fuss of him. Loads of cuddles and petting and telling him he was a great boy. He got another little treat too. He deserved it...he walked for an hour today as well.

DBB

Just go a little easier with the walks op... There's a general rule of thumb that walkies should last about 5 mins per month of life until they're physically matured. Romping, playing, wrestling etc, pretty much as much as you want, but walking on-lead is quite high-impact on joints.
Also, one minute of separation is too long if he's whining within that minute... You need to set yourself up for success, in that you need to maximise the chances of him getting it right. So, for the next while, just leave the room for a sec before coming back in. I do this ad nauseum until the pup loses interest in my leaving Then I can start to extend my absences.

Aineoil

DBB wrote: »

Just go a little easier with the walks op... There's a general rule of thumb that walkies should last about 5 mins per month of life until they're physically matured. Romping, playing, wrestling etc, pretty much as much as you want, but walking on-lead is quite high-impact on joints.
Also, one minute of separation is too long if he's whining within that minute... You need to set yourself up for success, in that you need to maximise the chances of him getting it right. So, for the next while, just leave the room for a sec before coming back in. I do this ad nauseum until the pup loses interest in my leaving Then I can start to extend my absences.

Thank you so much for your post. The teenage son insists on the walks every day. When I have walked Klopp myself I end up carrying him when he gets tired.

He's as strong as an ox and loves the walks. Maybe because of his breed, I don't know. He's more labrador than sheepdog, I think myself.

He's wrestler and a good one too. He has very strong hind legs. He loves the underside of his paws being massaged.

muddypaws

Aineoil wrote: »

Thank you so much for your post. The teenage son insists on the walks every day. When I have walked Klopp myself I end up carrying him when he gets tired.

He's as strong as an ox and loves the walks. Maybe because of his breed, I don't know. He's more labrador than sheepdog, I think myself.

He's wrestler and a good one too. He has very strong hind legs. He loves the underside of his paws being massaged.

He may seem to be as strong as an ox, but you could be setting him up for problems when he's older. There will be plenty of time for long walks with him when he is older, the 5 minute rule is an excellent one to follow.

aonb

You are getting lots of good advice here OP, and sounds like you are very aware of being firm with him, in the loving environment that will encourage a happy, well behaved dog.

Being firm with them when a puppy is really important - you dont want them learning habits that are hard to break when they are bigger. Look at how dogs and bitches/puppies interact - when a puppy becomes too boisterous/irritating, the adult dog will either growl or show teeth and walk away. Turn your back on your puppy to show your displeasure.

He sounds really clever, so start tiring him now with lots of new tricks/games/commands. Sit, stay, come are all good ones to start with. Lie down, leave it are useful, especially the latter!

The limit on walking is to protect his growing bones and joints.

Keep massaging those paws - good to have a dog who doesnt mind his pads being checked - in case of injuries or if nails need clipping. Fiddle with his mouth/teeth - lift his gums! Keep up with the toilet training - once they get the idea, its like a miracle!!! Its up to you though to bring him out to pee very regularly/hourly, and to poo after every meal - worth the chore when it all comes together!

Aineoil

aonb wrote: »

You are getting lots of good advice here OP, and sounds like you are very aware of being firm with him, in the loving environment that will encourage a happy, well behaved dog.

Being firm with them when a puppy is really important - you dont want them learning habits that are hard to break when they are bigger. Look at how dogs and bitches/puppies interact - when a puppy becomes too boisterous/irritating, the adult dog will either growl or show teeth and walk away. Turn your back on your puppy to show your displeasure.

He sounds really clever, so start tiring him now with lots of new tricks/games/commands. Sit, stay, come are all good ones to start with. Lie down, leave it are useful, especially the latter!

The limit on walking is to protect his growing bones and joints.

Keep massaging those paws - good to have a dog who doesnt mind his pads being checked - in case of injuries or if nails need clipping. Fiddle with his mouth/teeth - lift his gums! Keep up with the toilet training - once they get the idea, its like a miracle!!! Its up to you though to bring him out to pee very regularly/hourly, and to poo after every meal - worth the chore when it all comes together!

I'm getting great advice here. I really appreciate it. I have looked at numerous websites but I think you need the personal touch and other people's experiences to understand how best to make a lovely life for your puppy.

As regards commands he knows sit, stay, come here Klopp, no biting (most of the time). I haven't tried lie down. So I will try that.

He's so good at pooing outside. Brought him outside at 7 this morning and he did his business. Turned my back on him and let him get on with it.

Brought him for a walk on the beach again, which he loved. He is full of energy and loves his walks. We can't tire him out:D He's a bundle of energy.
Two beach walks today and he comes home wanting more play.

Regarding massaging the pads of his feet, he relaxes when I do that and falls asleep. He loves it, I think.

Regards food what would you recommend? We feed him dry nuts.

aonb

If you look on this forum, food, or rather the QUALITY of dry food is a huge issue!

I home cook for my lot, but the quality of the kibble you feed your dog, especially from puppy, is so important. His poo, his coat, his skin, his growth/bones will all be effected by the food. There are so many complete rubbish foods on the market. There are so many excellent ones too, finding one that suits your puppy, his digestion, what you can get in your area, your pocket is worth some serious research.

Rememeber, a golden rule, if changing food, do it VERY slowly - take a week to substitute from old to new.

When a dog is on a new food, you may see changes in his poo, his flatulance, the quality of his coat, and skin. These are very obvious signs of a food suiting or not suiting your dog.

There are some excellent options:

ARCANA
TASTE OF THE WILD
JAMES WELLBELOVED
do a search of the threads here to find lots of other quality brands.

Make sure you read the ingredients. Cereal is usually very high on the list, cereals can be a real issue for most dogs. (Brown rice is ok). Animal derivatives - are bad - are basically sweepings off the floor. Famialiarize yourself with ingredient lists - I care as much about what goes into all my animals as I do what goes into my family

Good things to remember - a raw chicken wing will help keep your dogs anal glands clear. Never feed cooked bones - raw always - a raw bone is good for their teeth, and great boredom busters (your puppy is probably a bit young for big bones yet). Some peanut butter smeared into a KONG (toy) is great for boredom too. When your puppy is teething, chewy toys are very handy. Salmon oil is good for coats - add to the food. I give my lot probiotic natural yoghurt as a treat.

Aineoil

muddypaws wrote: »

He may seem to be as strong as an ox, but you could be setting him up for problems when he's older. There will be plenty of time for long walks with him when he is older, the 5 minute rule is an excellent one to follow.[/QUOTE


I would love a 5 minute rule with Klopp, then I might get housework done. He's so active that's not an option.I had to stop ironing today to bring him out for another little walk. I played with him for another half an hour.

muddypaws

Aineoil wrote: »

I would love a 5 minute rule with Klopp, then I might get housework done. He's so active that's not an option.I had to stop ironing today to bring him out for another little walk. I played with him for another half an hour.

I have a very, very high energy breed, it is possible. You need to give him mental as well as physical exercise, and also down time, which is just as important to allow him to grow properly. DBB explained the 5 minute rule, it is 5 minutes per month of age. I am not the only one that has said about over-exercising, but it seems to be advice that you are unwilling to take on board, fair enough, its your pup.

cocker5

muddypaws wrote: »

I have a very, very high energy breed, it is possible. You need to give him mental as well as physical exercise, and also down time, which is just as important to allow him to grow properly. DBB explained the 5 minute rule, it is 5 minutes per month of age. I am not the only one that has said about over-exercising, but it seems to be advice that you are unwilling to take on board, fair enough, its your pup.

Just on this op - if u don't follow the 5 minute rule regardless of how full of energy your dog is you will end up with a dog with joint issues (serious issues) later in life.

My advice be smart follow the 5 minute rule , the rest of the time have the kids play with him teach him new trick this will tire him out rather than damaging his joints and bones.

sillysmiles

As someone with an adult lab with joint issues it;s not fun and he has spent months without a walk. I'm not sure if it is just bad luck, was he neitured too early, was he over walked as a puppy but joint problems in previsously active adult dog is no fun.

I think - and someone who knows more about puppies than I do can clarify - but you can play with him and mess and train to tire him out but not walking?

cocker5

sillysmiles wrote: »

As someone with an adult lab with joint issues it;s not fun and he has spent months without a walk. I'm not sure if it is just bad luck, was he neitured too early, was he over walked as a puppy but joint problems in previsously active adult dog is no fun.

I think - and someone who knows more about puppies than I do can clarify - but you can play with him and mess and train to tire him out but not walking?

the 5 minute rule for walking if applied is perfect...

you know what i found is with a puppy, if you do lots of training sit, paw, roll over... that kanckers them out totally.... mental stimulation is by far the best than over walking to tire them out.

Aineoil

muddypaws wrote: »

I have a very, very high energy breed, it is possible. You need to give him mental as well as physical exercise, and also down time, which is just as important to allow him to grow properly. DBB explained the 5 minute rule, it is 5 minutes per month of age. I am not the only one that has said about over-exercising, but it seems to be advice that you are unwilling to take on board, fair enough, its your pup.

I never knew about the 5 minute rule before. I'm not unwilling to take advice, just didn't know about the 5 minute rule.

He has loads of downtime, we are in our 50's so we need our downtime with puppy too.

We play loads of games with him to keep him mentally stimulated. He's smart and gives us great joy. He loves the hide and go seek we play with him.

Pup and us needed time together, now I know his tired whimper and his whimper and clawing at me when he needs to go outside to do his business.

He still doesn't like any of us leaving the house, but we tried 1 minute intervals of leaving him on his own. It has worked. He can amuse himself for about 5 minutes now.

He's nearly toilet trained, to my amazement. When he does his business outside we praise, praise and praise him. He responds so well. He has had a few mishaps, we ignore them.

Aineoil

sillysmiles wrote: »

As someone with an adult lab with joint issues it;s not fun and he has spent months without a walk. I'm not sure if it is just bad luck, was he neitured too early, was he over walked as a puppy but joint problems in previsously active adult dog is no fun.

I think - and someone who knows more about puppies than I do can clarify - but you can play with him and mess and train to tire him out but not walking?

Thanks for the advice. We don't "walk" him any more. We just bring him out for a quick trot around the house every three hours or so.

We play and mess with him loads. It's great fun for us as well as him.

We get up during the night to bring him out to pee and poo. It's usually around 3 and 6 in the morning. I have no problem doing that. But is that usual?

He's so good he whimpers and wakes us up to take him out.

Aineoil

Stigura wrote: »

Aineoil; Have ye considered a light chain set up, till ye get ye place fenced?

As he's just a puppy yet, a harness would be better than a collar, for a chain rig.

I've lived in this place for ten years now. Had a load of Dogs, over those years. All spent time on their chains. Never had one object to, or have any problem with one.

Took me a number of years to completely Dog Proof my entire compound. But, I did it. Now? I open the door. Cry; " Fresh Air, Dogs! " And out they rush. Me? I get the kettle on!

There's not a lot to beat knowing that ye Dogs can't get off ye land. Can't come to harm. Fencing sorts that out.

You sort ye fencing out. Meanwhile? Pop ye pup on a light chain.

I can send ye extremely clear and detailed instructions, how to rig a Dog Chain. It needs doing right. Makes for very happy, safe, Dogs.

But, yeah; Fencing Is the Holy Grail. It just doesn't happen over night ~ unless ye have a LOT of money! :eek:

I bought one of those thin ropes in the pet shop the day before yesterday. he's not that comfortable with it yet.

In fairness it has been very windy here at the moment and I think the wind upsets him. I don't like the wind myself. He hates rain.

He hears dogs barking in the distance and he doesn't like that either.