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Lizzie Armisted 'cleared' to ride in Rio - 3 missed doping test violations

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    #32
    Joe_ Public
    Registered Users Posts: 13,023 ✭✭✭✭Joe_ Public


    godtabh wrote: »
    Not when the onus is on the rider to note which room they are staying in.

    The guidelines say OR ensure it's booked in their name. Would avoid any ambiguity if it said to put the room number on ADAMS but may not be entirely practical as they'll only get the number when they book in.

    The whole thing is very curious and hard to get your head around just looking at the bare facts. I presume the CAS judgement will be published so we can see how exactly the arguments played out at the hearing.


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    #33
    RobFowl
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 11,667 Mod ✭✭✭✭RobFowl


    Beasty wrote: »
    To be "regular" the process should be independent of the sporting body which is what happened here

    Am very uncomfortable with her appeal to CAS being supported by BC.

    JTL couldn't appeal to CAS because he couldn't afford it and was cut loose by same BC.

    Either BC making judgements or treating higher profile cyclists preferentially. Eitehr way not good.


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    #34
    gordongekko
    Registered Users Posts: 5,301 ✭✭✭gordongekko


    greenspurs wrote: »
    What do you mean?
    She was posting from where she was supposed to be ?
    or from somewhere she wasn't supposed to be?

    She was posting from an Iphone around the time she claimed her phone was off/ silent


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    #35
    RobFowl
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 11,667 Mod ✭✭✭✭RobFowl


    gordongekko wrote: »
    She was posting from an Iphone around the time she claimed her phone was off/ silent

    As I understand she was phoned at 0600 but was tweeting from phone at 0742. Don't know about you but I'm usually out cold at 0600 but awake at 0742 !


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    #36
    jinkypolly
    Registered Users Posts: 514 ✭✭✭jinkypolly


    Pudsy33 wrote: »
    She was tweeting around the time of the missed test.
    gordongekko wrote: »
    She was posting from an Iphone around the time she claimed her phone was off/ silent

    "around the time" is extremely vague when considering it's importance in this context. Could you give us the exact times the tweeting/phone use happened in relation to the time the tester tried to contact her?


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    #37
    RobFowl
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 11,667 Mod ✭✭✭✭RobFowl


    jinkypolly wrote: »
    "around the time" is extremely vague when considering it's importance in this context. Could you give us the exact times the tweeting/phone use happened in relation to the time the tester tried to contact her?


    Sorry can't be more exact ;)
    RobFowl wrote: »
    As I understand she was phoned at 0600 but was tweeting from phone at 0742.


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    #38
    jinkypolly
    Registered Users Posts: 514 ✭✭✭jinkypolly


    RobFowl wrote: »
    Sorry can't be more exact ;)

    Ha, it is all about timing.

    I now see why the quoted posters were being vague, the real times are not 'controversial' at all.


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    #39
    1bryan
    Registered Users Posts: 815 ✭✭✭1bryan


    RobFowl wrote: »
    As I understand she was phoned at 0600 but was tweeting from phone at 0742. Don't know about you but I'm usually out cold at 0600 but awake at 0742 !

    the timestamp on screenshots of the tweet that I saw said 7:42am, but twitter timestamps with your time (as opposed to the senders time). It was a tweet from a UK account that I saw, so you need to factor in the 1 hour time difference.

    Still, 42 minutes is plenty of time to be up and about.

    What was more curious is that the following day she tweeted about how some of her rivals weren't being tested.

    All looks very curious in hindsight.


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    #40
    RobFowl
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 11,667 Mod ✭✭✭✭RobFowl


    1bryan wrote: »
    the timestamp on screenshots of the tweet that I saw said 7:42am, but twitter timestamps with your time (as opposed to the senders time). It was a tweet from a UK account that I saw, so you need to factor in the 1 hour time difference.

    Still, 42 minutes is plenty of time to be up and about.

    What was more curious is that the following day she tweeted about how some of her rivals weren't being tested.

    All looks very curious in hindsight.

    Dodgy as f*ck IMO


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    #41
    greenspurs
    Registered Users Posts: 10,482 ✭✭✭✭greenspurs


    Has she 'taken a break' from twitter ??
    247469249_2017413731748359_7675802031635703098_n.jpg

    "Bright lights and Thunder .................... " #NoPopcorn



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    #42
    Pudsy33
    Registered Users Posts: 10,785 ✭✭✭✭Pudsy33


    I wasn't aware of the exact times, that seems reasonable to be fair.


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    #43
    RobFowl
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 11,667 Mod ✭✭✭✭RobFowl


    Had lost interest in Rio after the IOC/Russian climbdown but any lingering interest gone after this (note will still watch and cheer Nico/Dan and Sharon :) )


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    #44
    godtabh
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 23,218 Mod ✭✭✭✭godtabh


    I'll watch the mens Road Race and thats about it. Clearly other things at play


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    #45
    RobFowl
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 11,667 Mod ✭✭✭✭RobFowl


    godtabh wrote: »
    I'll watch the mens Road Race and thats about it. Clearly other things at play

    Womens keirin too please and maybe womens TP because of ex Irish international Ciara Horne ;)


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    #46
    MPFGLB
    Registered Users Posts: 3,255 ✭✭✭MPFGLB


    I don't really understand all this about tweeting times

    Surely the issue is if you fill in a whereabouts form (and it is only for an hour on that day I believe ???) then you must make yourself available in that hour ....i.e. have your phone switched on and charged or inform hotel reception that you can be disturbed in that hour

    Or am I missing something....at best this is disregard for the process


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    #47
    Macy0161
    Registered Users Posts: 9,455 ✭✭✭Macy0161


    nak wrote: »
    Maybe because there is a lot less media/public interest in women's cycling?
    She's a bigger name than JTL anyway (although him being a Sky rider obviously a factor).

    I'm a bit conflicted about the whole episode. I can see how you could easily forget to update it/ change it, but then I know full well if it was certain male riders that would generally raise an eyebrow, I wouldn't be having a belt of it. I guess that's why it's 3 in 12 months, rather than an automatic ban (for whereabouts - I think it is automatic for failing to produce at other tests).

    Genuine mistakes or not, like Yates, that's her somewhat tarnished, especially after the year she's had. Which if you are clean, that is still a pretty big punishment imo.

    Engaged to Philip - she must be clean though! :pac:


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    #48
    Pudsy33
    Registered Users Posts: 10,785 ✭✭✭✭Pudsy33


    MPFGLB wrote: »
    I don't really understand all this about tweeting times

    Surely the issue is if you fill in a whereabouts form (and it is only for an hour on that day I believe ???) then you must make yourself available in that hour ....i.e. have your phone switched on and charged or inform hotel reception that you can be disturbed in that hour

    Or am I missing something....at best this is disregard for the process

    Dead right. If you say you're going to be free for an hour, I'd think the least you could do is to keep your phone on.


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    #49
    Macy0161
    Registered Users Posts: 9,455 ✭✭✭Macy0161


    Pudsy33 wrote: »
    Dead right. If you say you're going to be free for an hour, I'd think the least you could do is to keep your phone on.
    I assume she couldn't turn off the hotel room phone? CAS have accepted that the UKAD rep didn't follow correct procedure - that's more explainable than the mistakes in updating whereabouts info for me.


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    #50
    godtabh
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 23,218 Mod ✭✭✭✭godtabh


    RobFowl wrote: »
    Womens keirin too please and maybe womens TP because of ex Irish international Ciara Horne ;)

    Very little interest in track. No nothing about it but if its on and there is an Irish interest I may watch it.


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    #51
    Joe_ Public
    Registered Users Posts: 13,023 ✭✭✭✭Joe_ Public


    godtabh wrote: »
    Very little interest in track. No nothing about it but if its on and there is an Irish interest I may watch it.

    I like the track events, especially the keiran and the madison although they dropped the latter from the Olympic programme sadly.


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    #52
    Joe_ Public
    Registered Users Posts: 13,023 ✭✭✭✭Joe_ Public


    Macy0161 wrote: »
    I assume she couldn't turn off the hotel room phone? CAS have accepted that the UKAD rep didn't follow correct procedure - that's more explainable than the mistakes in updating whereabouts info for me.

    The truth is some country's testers are probably a bit more aggressive than others. I assume this was a Swedish tester (though not certain). Should have demanded the room number at the very least, hard to understand why this didn't happen.


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    #53
    dastardly00
    Registered Users Posts: 13,425 ✭✭✭✭dastardly00


    Joe_ Public wrote: »
    The truth is some country's testers are probably a bit more aggressive than others. I assume this was a Swedish tester (though not certain). Should have demanded the room number at the very least, hard to understand why this didn't happen.

    It was a UKAD Doping Control Officer, so I am assuming they were from the UK?
    Or can the UKAD hire an official from the Swedish Sports Confederation to perform the test?


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    #54
    1bryan
    Registered Users Posts: 815 ✭✭✭1bryan


    dastardly00 wrote: »
    It was a UKAD Doping Control Officer, so I am assuming they were from the UK?
    Or can the UKAD hire an official from the Swedish Sports Confederation to perform the test?

    not on behalf of UKAD, no.

    I spoke to a tester about this before and he explained it to me. My understanding is that each federation has their own testers (Ireland's is coordinated by the Irish Sports Council), and those testers will test on behalf of the respective federation.

    But a national federation can also be requested to test on behalf of a governing body (UCI, FIFA, etc). So the chaperones you see at the end of a UCI race with their UCI bibs, generally work for their national federation.

    So, if I work as a tester for the Irish Sports Council I test on their behalf. The only exception to this is if I am requested to test on behalf of a governing body. Testing on behalf of a different national federation does not happen, as far as I am aware.

    So this UKAD official worked for UKAD, and was testing on behalf of UKAD, no one else.

    Unless thats changed since I was told what I was told (3/4 years back).


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    #55
    Joe_ Public
    Registered Users Posts: 13,023 ✭✭✭✭Joe_ Public


    dastardly00 wrote: »
    It was a UKAD Doping Control Officer, so I am assuming they were from the UK?
    Or can the UKAD hire an official from the Swedish Sports Confederation to perform the test?

    I think that's what they'd normally do to save on costs, and makes sense anyway, but I'm not sure either to be honest. Perfectly plausible they'd send their own testers abroad in certain cases so may well have been the case here alright. Still royally fecked it up anyway whatever the nationality!

    EDIT: Ok I will stand corrected on this. I always thought federations shared testing resources but not certain this is the case.


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    #56
    1bryan
    Registered Users Posts: 815 ✭✭✭1bryan


    Joe_ Public wrote: »
    I think that's what they'd normally do to save on costs, and makes sense anyway, but I'm not sure either to be honest. Perfectly plausible they'd send their own testers abroad in certain cases so may well have been the case here alright. Still royally fecked it up anyway whatever the nationality!

    It doesn't make sense though. It would leave you open to all sorts of conspiracies.

    What happens if a top UK athlete gets busted by a dope-tester from Sweden, the home of some of the main competitors of said athlete.

    though I guess you're open to conspiracy theories one way or the other..


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    #57
    1bryan
    Registered Users Posts: 815 ✭✭✭1bryan


    Let us not forget too that, though she's allowed compete in Rio, she does so with 2 confirmed cases of missing a doping control. That in itself does not look terribly good.


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    #58
    Joe_ Public
    Registered Users Posts: 13,023 ✭✭✭✭Joe_ Public


    1bryan wrote: »
    It doesn't make sense though. It would leave you open to all sorts of conspiracies.

    What happens if a top UK athlete gets busted by a dope-tester from Sweden, the home of some of the main competitors of said athlete.

    though I guess you're open to conspiracy theories one way or the other..

    It's the cost factor that I'd be thinking of. If there are Irish athletes in the US, does it make sense for the ISC to be sending guys over from Ireland to test them 9-10 times a year or whatever when they can outsource it to testers over there? I just assumed it was the case anyway.


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    #59
    Mefistofelino
    Registered Users Posts: 1,862 ✭✭✭Mefistofelino


    Testers are contacted to the various national bodies. AFAIK, there are companies (including one big Scandanavian firm, whose name escapes me) who can provide the services in other countries on behalf of the national bodies.

    http://www.irishsportscouncil.ie/Anti-Doping/Testing-Programme/Sample-Collection-Personnel/


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    #60
    MPFGLB
    Registered Users Posts: 3,255 ✭✭✭MPFGLB


    And why has Philip Deignan not been seen in media or at races since May

    I know its got nothing to do with him but why did SKY not race him ???


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    #61
    transylman
    Registered Users Posts: 602 ✭✭✭transylman


    Her claim that because she tested clean in a competition test the next day is proof that she was not taking anything, is more than a little disingenuous. Anyone with even a passing understanding of drug taking in sports knows it is possible to take something and have it clear their system within 24 hours, and in-competition is one of the few places where they can be certain of being tested.

    Strong whiff off this one.


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