Tip problems - using tip to top up till shortage

figuss33

hi All

I have some tips issue as well.
I worked in hotel in Dublin,as a waiter.
Last night our Manager ask to get 20 euro from the tip jar to balance shortage in cash till.
Im not fully convinience if she has right to do so, can someone can help in this matter?

Mrs OBumble

Provided you are being paid minimum wage (9.65 per hour if you have worked for two years since you turned 18, less if not), then tips, she has the right to do so. You have no rights in respect to tips.

Shelflife

Minimum wage is €9.15.

figuss33

figuss33 wrote: »

hi All

I have some tips issue as well.
I worked in hotel in Dublin,as a waiter.
Last night our Manager ask to get 20 euro from the tip jar to balance shortage in cash till.
Im not fully convinience if she has right to do so, can someone can help in this matter?

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Provided you are being paid minimum wage (9.65 per hour if you have worked for two years since you turned 18, less if not), then tips, she has the right to do so. You have no rights in respect to tips.

im getting paid 9,5 e/hrs

tips are not money the employer provides to employees. It's money customers give directly to employees. They can't legally confiscate it.

figuss33

Shelflife wrote: »

Minimum wage is €9.15.

Are you agree with Mrs OBumble?

_Brian

My understanding was that managment cannot take money from employees to top up shortages in the till.
Now, I would have presumed that tips were automatically employee money to be split, and so would presume the manager was wrong.

I'm saying that you still hear of shop staff being asked to top up shortages in tills.

Hunchback

I worked in a restaurant in Galway where the same system was applied as the OP'S girlfriend. Same amount EXACTLY every week. Only difference is that the management openly declared she took her cut every week - an undisclosed amount.

I didn't feel like there was anything I could do so I left the job after three weeks and started working for a restaurant where you got to actually keep the tips you made. Twice as rewarding

Shint0

Sometimes tips can be pocketed and not all handed up where there is supposed to be a pooled system in place. I have seen this happen when I did waitressing as a student. Not just by other waiting staff but management as well. It can be a hard system to make fully transparent and more difficult where customers are allowed to add a gratuity via debit/credit card.

TheChizler

Generally I'll give a large tip if the person dealing with me has put in that but extra, kinda seems a bit pointless now if it turns out they're usually pooled! Would it be rude to ask staff how their tips work?

minidazzler

The thing to do OP is to have all waitresses keep a log of every tip they get for the week, and then add them together at the end of the Week, and work out how it's being split. I'd imagine the Head chef and the manager are taking a larger cut for themselves because of their hard work.

I have issues with this for so many reasons, but TBH you won't change the system.

I work in a place where waitresses keep every single tip.... if I'm on the bar, I could make upwards of 20 drinks for a table that orders 2 apps and I'll get not a cent out of these waitresses. It's happened that a table had cocktails all night and didn't actually order food and a waitress tried to keep it, but I saw the credit card slip and argued til she ponied up.

JeffKenna

I fail to see why the kitchen staff shouldn't get a portion of your tip?

moc moc a moc

JeffKenna wrote: »

I fail to see why the kitchen staff shouldn't get a portion of your tip?

That's a bit of a random interjection, seeing as nobody in this thread said or implied that kitchen staff shouldn't get a portion of the tips

skallywag

To be honest the notion of tips being divided up puts my off tipping in the first place. I will gladly give a generous tip if I receive good decent service. I will also just as gladly leave nothing if I am on the receiving end of shoddy service.

gagonmine

Legally you should be paying Tax on gratuities, and declaring the income. So really you don't have a leg to stand on.

princemuzzy

gagonmine wrote: »

Legally you should be paying Tax on gratuities, and declaring the income. So really you don't have a leg to stand on.

in return legally management / owners should be declaring it as a source of income if they are responsible for splitiing it up

keeping some tips to balance a till or fund staff nights are common practice

its a murky area which you will very rarely win on

noel100

I worked in a restaurant in Galway city for 2yrs where I got tips . During the summer months I could earn upwards of 300-400 in gratuity and during the winter would go down to between 100-200 depending on events happening etc.
Place was extremely busy and you would be amazed at all those 1 &2 euros coins would add up at lunch time.
Used work a split shift 4 days a week and 1 day shift. You got paid a 39hr week but often worked in the restaurant to 3am while customers kept drinking. Plenty of 50-60hr weeks and the tips made up the difference. None of the other staff got a share of the tips.
I hated that job because you relied on the tips so much it used to feel like begging.
Now I'm working in engineering many years with decent salary never needing to supplement my income with tips.

Nody

Mod:
Split to new thread

Milly33

I would think there is something wrong, unless said manager asked all staff before doing..

Hate this crap... Lots of ways to avoid this. If the till has a set number of people working on it during the evening then it is taken out of whoevers working the tills tips, not everyones. if it is something re-occurring all the time then I would be seeing red lights, someone is messing with the till...

Or everyone should be asked do they agree that €20 can be taken from everyones tips.

mahamageehad

I'd say the thinking is, if the till is now money one of the staff is responsible and they're punishing the many.

I've worked in hotels, bars and restaurants for years and I've no problem asking staff about if they get their tips, I don't think it's rude at all. My problem especially is tips on a card, many of the places I worked in in Ireland never gave these to the staff so I'm wary of em.

OP, unfortunately, getting a good tipping system is difficult. I've seen many systems, most have flaws. The best place I ever worked was a pub in Germany where I got to keep all tips as I essentially had my own till. At the end of the night I had to hand up 20% to the kitchen and 10% to the bar. I don't know how they split it after that. I got the full 70% for myself then. However, if my till was down it must have been my fault (undercharged, gave wrong change, walk out etc) so that would come out of my tips. Why should the business be down because a server or bar man is making mistakes?

Hunchback

mahamageehad wrote: »

I'd say the thinking is, if the till is now money one of the staff is responsible and they're punishing the many.

I've worked in hotels, bars and restaurants for years and I've no problem asking staff about if they get their tips, I don't think it's rude at all. My problem especially is tips on a card, many of the places I worked in in Ireland never gave these to the staff so I'm wary of em.

OP, unfortunately, getting a good tipping system is difficult. I've seen many systems, most have flaws. The best place I ever worked was a pub in Germany where I got to keep all tips as I essentially had my own till. At the end of the night I had to hand up 20% to the kitchen and 10% to the bar. I don't know how they split it after that. I got the full 70% for myself then. However, if my till was down it must have been my fault (undercharged, gave wrong change, walk out etc) so that would come out of my tips. Why should the business be down because a server or bar man is making mistakes?

That is exactly the best way to run the system and if I ran a restaurant I would do it this way. I wish all owners of restaurants would read your post.


There is no way that mistakes in the till, made by an unidentified person, should be paid for by all. All members of the floor staff should provide themselves with their own float, and therefore be responsible for their own cash. It is an (almost) guaranteed way that there will be no mistakes on the till. This operates on the very basic premise that every member of staff who uses the till has their own clerk ID.



And, you mention this restaurant in Germany saw that the members of staff who were not waiters got tipped out too. This is absolutely perfect, especially if, as in many places, they get a higher wage per hour (justifying the fact that the waiter only tips out 30%).


For the OP - I am sorry that I do not have a direct answer to your question. But there is certainly a systemic problem that could be easily rectified by every member of staff who uses the till having their own clerk ID and providing their own float. It is simple and eliminates 99% of cash shortages on the till,but I understand you may not feel in a position to suggest to management

Milly33

I was just going to say that is how to do it. Worked the same and in fairness the only annoyance with it was that the shocking staff got a cut of the tips too, but also the staff in the kitchen got tips also which was great as just because they are behind the scenes it doesn't mean they aren't putting in the effort.

Saying why should a business be down because of staff!! mmm because the staff are ****e.. If you have ****e staff it doesn't matter how great a business you have it wont work...

You get your float you are responsible for it, if it is down it comes out of your tips or you can choose to pay it.. Done and dusted perfect system..Untill you come across the one manager who isn't too trusting and doesn't care who gets hurt so they can get their extra mula

Lux23

The problem I have with this is that the till is under and rather than work out why they are using tips to cover it up. Anything could be happening here.

TheDoc

TheChizler wrote: »

Generally I'll give a large tip if the person dealing with me has put in that but extra, kinda seems a bit pointless now if it turns out they're usually pooled! Would it be rude to ask staff how their tips work?

I always make sure when I'm tipping, I hand it directly to the staff who served me and usually a "Now that's for you, don't be putting that into a jar".

I actively avoid the jars, or the card gratuities option. Too many stories of staff getting shafted by owners or management.

If I'm tipping I'm giving my money directly to someone else as a thanks and/or appreciation for their work and service. Nothing to do with the restaurant, property, management etc. They've got their $$ when I paid for the meal or whatever

JeffKenna

TheDoc wrote: »

I always make sure when I'm tipping, I hand it directly to the staff who served me and usually a "Now that's for you, don't be putting that into a jar".

I actively avoid the jars, or the card gratuities option. Too many stories of staff getting shafted by owners or management.

If I'm tipping I'm giving my money directly to someone else as a thanks and/or appreciation for their work and service. Nothing to do with the restaurant, property, management etc. They've got their $$ when I paid for the meal or whatever

Thats putting the person receiving the tip in a very akward situation tho if someone saw you doing that?

Lux23

TheDoc wrote: »

I always make sure when I'm tipping, I hand it directly to the staff who served me and usually a "Now that's for you, don't be putting that into a jar".

I actively avoid the jars, or the card gratuities option. Too many stories of staff getting shafted by owners or management.

If I'm tipping I'm giving my money directly to someone else as a thanks and/or appreciation for their work and service. Nothing to do with the restaurant, property, management etc. They've got their $$ when I paid for the meal or whatever

Management should make it clear as to where tips are going too.

ted1

figuss33 wrote: »

im getting paid 9,5 e/hrs

tips are not money the employer provides to employees. It's money customers give directly to employees. They can't legally confiscate it.

I'd like to see the law, technically tips are giving to a person who is employed by the establishment and revived as a result of them fulfilling their terms of employment, so they should be long to the establishment.

In our contracts we are not allowed to receive bribes and gifts over 20 euro must be declared and then possible returned.

What does it say in your contract

Hunchback

ted1 wrote:

What does it say in your contract

Many people in the hospitality industry would never have been presented with a written contract, much less one that stipulates what happens to an employees tips

TheDoc

JeffKenna wrote: »

Thats putting the person receiving the tip in a very akward situation tho if someone saw you doing that?

In what way?

As a patron/customer I've paid my meal and any related charges to the owners. This is a payment I'm making, citizen to citizen, for satisfactory service. That's how I interpret it, nothing to do with management.

And if management were flaky and wanted to inquire what was happening, I'd happily inform them.

seamus

TheDoc wrote: »

And if management were flaky and wanted to inquire what was happening, I'd happily inform them.

And the member of staff could very much get fired for it.

If there's a condition of employment, written or verbal, that all tips are pooled to be distributed, then any employee found to not be doing this could be disciplined for it.

You may claim it's cash, one citizen to another, and therefore a private matter. But they're receiving it in the course of their employment as a reward for the work they're engaging in, therefore their employer has every business nosing in.

That's even before you consider the other staff members seeing someone pocket the tip and not distributing it. If distributing the tips is the done thing, then a single individual pocketing tips will find themselves ostracised very quickly.

As to the OP, I understand why the hotel would use the tip jar to cover unders - if the rewards for good work are to be pooled, then it similarly makes sense to recitfy mistakes from pooled funds.
It's a bit scabby though if the till was worked by one person or the manager was doing it to cover her own ass.

ted1

TheDoc wrote: »

In what way?

As a patron/customer I've paid my meal and any related charges to the owners. This is a payment I'm making, citizen to citizen, for satisfactory service. That's how I interpret it, nothing to do with management.

And if management were flaky and wanted to inquire what was happening, I'd happily inform them.

No it's not citizen to citizen, it's citizen to employee of said shop as a reward for doing his duties of employment. You would not give it to him if you were not a customer and served by the employee