60% of Students report difficulty getting deposit back

Muahahaha

http://www.thejournal.ie/deposit-difficulty-2905791-Aug2016/#comment-5328503

ALMOST TWO THIRDS of people have reported having difficulties getting their deposits returned from landlords, according to the results of a new survey.
The survey found that 60% of people questioned said that they had experienced difficulties in the past with getting their deposit back.
The survey was commissioned by the Union of Students in Ireland (USI) and carried out by Red C. It surveyed 1000 people over the age of 18.
The USI said that there is now 40% less rental space available than there was this time last year.
USI released the survey figures ahead of today’s launch of the Homes for Study campaign.
The USI said that it is teaming up with Irish company Deposify, which offers a deposit management service for tenants and landlords.
Deposify operates by giving landlords and tenants a joint account for deposits managed by both parties.
“Last year Ireland saw many problems in the accommodation sector, but this year USI is at the forefront of finding solutions to these problems,” said USI president Annie Hoey.

The poll was carried out by Red C and surveyed 1,000 people over the age of 18 so it is statistically significant with a margin of error of+/-3%. It seems extraordinarily high but that is what was reported.

myshirt

I am not in the least surprised.

Always anecdotal, but now some solid grounding to the matter. Let's trust that the political will is there to remedy the issue and take these landlords to task.

Real reprobate stuff.

Boater123

myshirt wrote: »

I am not in the least surprised.

Always anecdotal, but now some solid grounding to the matter. Let's trust that the political will is there to remedy the issue and take these landlords to task.

Real reprobate stuff.

I am not in the least surprised.

Always anecdotal, but now some solid grounding to the matter. Let's trust that the political will is there to remedy the issue and take these landlords bad tenants to task.

Real reprobate stuff.

The OP can be read both ways.

It doesn't look like a very detailed survey.

How many of that 60% had justifiable difficulty in getting it back for reason such as damage to the property etc. Anyone asked "did you have difficulty yes or no" will say "yes" even if they rightly had some or all of their deposit taken. It looks like something that's aimed at adding flames to the fire of people who think LL's are evil but ignore all the terrible tenants.

Michael D Not Higgins

This doesn't really show anything though. The fact is that students aren't always the best at taking care of accommodation they're in. While there's certainly a high number here who are being unfairly treated by landlords, I'm sure there's a high number who deserved to not have the deposit returned.

What it doesn't specify is if the poll went to any further granularity. Did they ask if there was damage involved? Was there a PRTB/RTB dispute? Did they skip paying the last month's rent?

I checked out both Red C and USI.ie and couldn't find anything about the poll. USI's twitter account is a frenzy of selfies promoting their push for more student accommodation but no substance.

yea it's 50/50 Id say. My niece is having shocking trouble getting her deposit back. The ladlord has changed the story so many times it's almost judge judy fodder!!

However I also have a friend who lets a house to a couple and they sound like an absolute nightmare, it's a joke that he cannot just turf them out.

Sad Professor

In fairness to landlords, many are under a lot of financial stress and may not have the money to give back. My current landlord had no money to fix a leak so we had to pay for it until he was able pay us back. Same thing happened with the oven a few years ago. He's selling now and claims the agent (who we haven't dealt with in over 5 years) has our deposit while they claim he has it, so we're probably going to have problems. He's a nice guy, though, just not cut out to be a landlord.

A deposit protection scheme is the simple solution to this, however I see the landlord lobby association are opposed to it as they fear it will cause an increase in disputes.

nhunter100

Sad Professor wrote:

In fairness to landlords, many are under a lot of financial stress and may not have the money to give back. My current landlord had no money to fix a leak so we had to pay for it until he was able pay us back. Same thing happened with the oven a few years ago. He's selling now and claims the agent (who we haven't dealt with in over 5 years) has our deposit while they claim he has it, so we're probably going to have problems. He's a nice guy, though, just not cut out to be a landlord.

Not that nice if he's not forthcoming with your deposit.

keeponhurling

Sad Professor wrote: »

A deposit protection scheme is the simple solution to this, however I see the landlord lobby association are opposed to it as they fear it will cause an increase in disputes.

Completely agree with this, it could be set up as an optional facility despite landlord resistance.

When I was a tenant if much rather pay a deposit of (say) €1000 plus €100 admin fee to a protection agency, than only €1000 to a landlord and be at their mercy.

Nothing at all to fear for either decent tenants or decent tenants. It protects both parties.

Sad Professor

keeponhurling wrote: »

Completely agree with this, it could be set up as an optional facility despite landlord resistance.

When I was a tenant if much rather pay a deposit of (say) €1000 plus €100 admin fee to a protection agency, than only €1000 to a landlord and be at their mercy.

Nothing at all to fear for either decent tenants or decent tenants. It protects both parties.

Seems there's already a Irish company which the USI is working with which is offering a voluntary deposit protection scheme: Deposify. I'd prefer a state-backed scheme, but it might be a good option for tenants/landlords until the government gets the finger out.

newacc2015

I dont know why they didnt ask for the reason why? I imagine because it is not the answer they are looking for ie many students dont know how to clean and break a lot of stuff during the year regardless of whether it is suitable for a construction site or not

I know seen plenty of student houses over the years after tenants have checked out. It is not uncommon to have 10-15 bin liners full of rubbish tenants didnt put out over the year. Or many students think washing the floors and emptying the bins is ok for 'cleaning the house'. Should a LL have to put his hand into his pocket to pay for these deductions much some tenants might call trouble getting their deposit back?

I would be interesting to see the time frame tenants had to wait to get their deposit back. Some expect it to be handed to them as they move out the door, which is not happening as you will only find breakages etc several hours after they are gone

The fact is only 0.2 to 0.3% of tenancies end in a reported deposit dispute to the RTB. Out of those tiny percentages, only 40-45% of those deposits are actually unfairly withheld. LLs might be slow at giving back deposits, but the RTB will be an entirely new experience. Why should millions be thrown at a problem that will only affect 0.2% of tenancies? Most reports commissioned have said the RTB would be better off ensuring more LLs are compliant with the existing registration, as lets get real. A LL who is likely to withhold the deposit unfairly is more than likely not registered with the RTB in the first place and what good will the deposit scheme if they arent enforcing existing laws?

Boater123

keeponhurling wrote: »

Completely agree with this, it could be set up as an optional facility despite landlord resistance.

When I was a tenant if much rather pay a deposit of (say) €1000 plus €100 admin fee to a protection agency, than only €1000 to a landlord and be at their mercy.

Nothing at all to fear for either decent tenants or decent tenants. It protects both parties.

A tenant is not "at the mercy" of a LL. That's what the RTB and the RTA 2004 is for. It is supposed to protect both parties and many would say that the legislation and the RTB's interpretation of it, favours the tenant more

What extra protection is a private company going to give that is not already provided for by existing legislation?

Totally unnecessary, and just an extra expense which would be more likely be passed on to the tenant when a LL add's it to the rent in a rising market such the one now.

newacc2015 wrote: »

The fact is only 0.2 to 0.3% of tenancies end in a reported deposit dispute to the RTB. Out of those tiny percentages, only 40-45% of those deposits are actually unfairly withheld. LLs might be slow at giving back deposits, but the RTB will be an entirely new experience. Why should millions be thrown at a problem that will only affect 0.2% of tenancies? Most reports commissioned have said the RTB would be better off ensuring more LLs are compliant with the existing registration, as lets get real. A LL who is likely to withhold the deposit unfairly is more than likely not registered with the RTB in the first place and what good will the deposit scheme if they arent enforcing existing laws?

Couldn't agree more with this. Existing legislation is more than enough, if it was enforced properly.

Sad Professor

newacc2015 wrote: »

I dont know why they didnt ask for the reason why? I imagine because it is not the answer they are looking for ie many students dont know how to clean and break a lot of stuff during the year regardless of whether it is suitable for a construction site or not

I know seen plenty of student houses over the years after tenants have checked out. It is not uncommon to have 10-15 bin liners full of rubbish tenants didnt put out over the year. Or many students think washing the floors and emptying the bins is ok for 'cleaning the house'. Should a LL have to put his hand into his pocket to pay for these deductions much some tenants might call trouble getting their deposit back?

I would be interesting to see the time frame tenants had to wait to get their deposit back. Some expect it to be handed to them as they move out the door, which is not happening as you will only find breakages etc several hours after they are gone

The fact is only 0.2 to 0.3% of tenancies end in a reported deposit dispute to the RTB. Out of those tiny percentages, only 40-45% of those deposits are actually unfairly withheld. LLs might be slow at giving back deposits, but the RTB will be an entirely new experience. Why should millions be thrown at a problem that will only affect 0.2% of tenancies? Most reports commissioned have said the RTB would be better off ensuring more LLs are compliant with the existing registration, as lets get real. A LL who is likely to withhold the deposit unfairly is more than likely not registered with the RTB in the first place and what good will the deposit scheme if they arent enforcing existing laws?

Well if the government wants to make us into a renting culture like Germany, they are going to have to start enforcing them. Traditionally Ireland's private rental market has been the wild west, which was fine in the '90s when only 10 percent of people were renting. But that's changing fast. Most of the students who are renting now may never own their own home. Once that reality settles in they are going to start demanding more tenant protections. And a deposit scheme is the least of what they'll want.

I'm not sure how useful the RTB figures are. I suspect many tenants deal with the possibility of not getting their deposit back via unofficial means, like taking it out of the last month's rent. How landlords deal with tenants is often dictated by their previous experiences with bad tenants. Tenants are no different and if they have a problem getting their deposit back from one landlord, they may ensure that that doesn't happen with the next one. This is what happens when there's not enough regulation/enforcement. Good tenants/landlords suffer for the actions of bad tenants/landlords.

Also it should be pointed out that, according to the Journal, the survey was of people over 18. So it wasn't necessarily just students reporting difficulty getting deposits back. I don't doubt that the figure is inflated to suit the USI's agenda, but a protection scheme would still be in everyone's interest. I'm not sure why the landlord lobby is opposed to it, unless it's just as simple as landlords wouldn't have that money to spend.

keeponhurling

The current system means the full deposit is with the landlord. Therefore delays in returning the deposit suit the LL fine, while causing major inconvenience for the tenant.

for example a student may be leaving that city, or need the deposit for their next apartment etc.

If the money is with a 3rd party, it is in the interests of both parties to resolve quickly.
In the current system, the LL should have kept the money separate from "their own money" but in reality few do, and don't have the cash ready. No incentive to do this as a delay only inconveniences the tenant.

For example if both tenant and LL agree €500 is needed for repairs and deducted from the deposit.
It would be in the LL's interests to resolve quickly and get their €500 in order to pay for the repairs.

laoch na mona

surely we should copy the system up north where a third party agencies holds the deposit, which means landlords can't fleece tenants for minor damage or just refuse to return the deposit but can still use the deposit for legitimate repairs