Back-to-school costs pushing some families into debt

Dravokivich

BaaLamb wrote: »

This year the second child is starting secondary school and we had to buy an iPad plus iPad insurance and iPad case plus ebooks

I honestly didn't know this was a thing. I've looked it up and found a school that insist on it and have some crazy policies based on it. They also seem to threaten punishing the kid by making them carry books instead of being able to use the iPad.

That is insane, insisting parents fork out for a premium device per child, then the school act like it's their equipment they are giving you use of...

Did ye have any choice in the matter at all?

Claw Hammer

I blame the parents!

Dravokivich

Claw Hammer wrote: »

I blame the parents!

I blame the grand parents!

Neyite

BaaLamb wrote: »

know this is After Hours and I'll probably get a flea in my ear for my post but I've found this whole thread quite upsetting. So much judgemental stuff going on and so many people who appear to be convinced that those who can't save money from the children's allowance or save all year or budget in the same way as they do are quite obviously lazy scroungers.

I planned my three children, I worked after the first one was born and for a while after the second one was born but the second child kept getting ear infections and the creche refused to take her with them. I gave up work, set up a small sideline business that was compatible with kids and husband worked away. Had third child and all seemed to be going well until out of the blue in 2008 my husband was made redundant and the ass fell out of the world in general. I went back to work (lucky to have gotten my old job back) and I worked and worked and worked, minded the kids while hubby went back to Uni to try to upskill. Uni was 4 hours away so he was only home at weekends. We paid our mortgage, our creche fees and all rest of it all the ways through the recession. I changed jobs and moved to the city he was studying in and I worked, worked, worked. We never had much in the way of disposable income but we paid our bills and made sure the kids could do a few activities etc. The children's allowance was part of our monthly budget, it went towards shoes, clothes, food, activities but it was most certainly never spent on holidays, smoking, drinking etc. as people have implied.

The back to school thing is just an additional strain for a family that is always strained and it is a time of year I always dread. The tracksuit has to come from one place, the school coat another etc etc. We try and pick up bits and pieces over the summer but invariably we still have a hefty final bill. This year the second child is starting secondary school and we had to buy an iPad plus iPad insurance and iPad case plus ebooks and then a whole load of stationery as well. Without thinking about uniforms I've spent the guts of €700 already on the one child. Thing is while all of this is a financial strain I want my children to have what they need so I pay for it and while I was working I can manage to juggle the costs.

Thing is I've just been made redundant and my husband's contract is up in another month, neither of us are having much luck finding new work so far. So this thread fills me with fear about the judgements that will be made about me and my family if we need to access the back to school allowance or any other allowance. I'm filled with fear about life on social welfare and about ever getting a job again so threads like this with so many people talking about how they can budget and save make people like me who are struggling to get by feel like absolute crap about themselves. I'm pretty sure the vast majority of people struggling with the additional costs back to school time brings are just like me and my family. I would never have had children if I had known how crappy the last 8 years would have been and now it looks like we are back to even crappier times.

Any parenting thread in AH is a magnet for people who have no intention of having children being extremely vocal and opinionated on what people who do have children should do with them. We are all perfect parents until we actually, you know, have children.

I had my baby at the height of the recession because it literally was then or never. The recession was temporary, my chance to have my child would have been gone for ever. I know that I had to ride out the recession, we had Canada lined up as our fall-back option if we both were made redundant a second time in the recession. And things are slightly better for us now. Things are starting to improve. We haven't had a holiday or weekend away since 2010, and I don't do things like highlights or beauty treatments, not for a long long time. I shop in Pennys -when I rarely get myself something.

Like you, I've been careful with our income during the tough times. But my child has never gone without what he needs. Neither have yours. And considering I paid into the exchequer since I was 14, and have continued to pay into the system via my taxes, I will not feel one bit ashamed if I ever needed to access a payment if it meant my child gets what he needs. Neither should you. You sound pretty brilliant actually.

BaaLamb

Dravokivich wrote: »

I honestly didn't know this was a thing. I've looked it up and found a school that insist on it and have some crazy policies based on it. They also seem to threaten punishing the kid by making them carry books instead of being able to use the iPad.

That is insane, insisting parents fork out for a premium device per child, then the school act like it's their equipment they are giving you use of...

Did ye have any choice in the matter at all?

This is a new start up school so there was a lot of meetings alright but despite some opposition from some of the parents the principal and the majority wanted iPads. No choice in device and it had to be an iPad Air 2. LuckilyI know someone working in Apple so I bought it through them and got it cheaper. The ebooks are from specific provider and we had to pay something as well for the set up of the device in school. Insurance isn't mandatory but I couldn't take the risk to go without, that was almost €110 including cover for loss. In fairness school suggested credit union loans but I was worried if husband didn't get a job then it would be yet another bill I couldn't afford to pay. We managed to put aside money over last two months to cover it. To be honest we've been living like hermits and penny pinching for about 6 months in anticipation of husband contract ending. My redundancy was completely unexpected and has literally sent me into full on panic mode permanently. Sorry for long winded reply

Dravokivich

BaaLamb wrote: »

This is a new start up school so there was a lot of meetings alright but despite some opposition from some of the parents the principal and the majority wanted iPads. No choice in device and it had to be an iPad Air 2. LuckilyI know someone working in Apple so I bought it through them and got it cheaper. The ebooks are from specific provider and we had to pay something as well for the set up of the device in school. Insurance isn't mandatory but I couldn't take the risk to go without, that was almost €110 including cover for loss. In fairness school suggested credit union loans but I was worried if husband didn't get a job then it would be yet another bill I couldn't afford to pay. We managed to put aside money over last two months to cover it. To be honest we've been living like hermits and penny pinching for about 6 months in anticipation of husband contract ending. My redundancy was completely unexpected and has literally sent me into full on panic mode permanently. Sorry for long winded reply

You've nothing to be sorry for.

If that was something someone told me, I'd seriously question what it is they are doing running a school. They should go to the Credit Union for their Arts/Crafts and Photocopying contributions so.

I'm not impressed with that at all and it's put you and your family in such a tight spot.

I don't care what the device is, but if the school are to insist on something like that, it should be through a leasing solution. Easily achievable in bulk too and would end up costing ye less than the price of the device.

BaaLamb

Thanks all for the responses. I hope I managed to explain in a rather roundabout way that the reality of back to school time for some families is pretty tough no matter how hard they work or how they may try to save / budget. It has obviously really hit hard in our house this year given our current circumstances but even with two reasonably well paid jobs the additional costs of back to school put a strain on our house. As others have said it would really help if you could sell old books and buy more second hand books, less bloody workbooks in primary school, do away with school specific branded uniforms. I buy as much as I can in the big chains but I still have the jumpers with crests, school jacket (no other allowed) and tracksuit to buy from the specific boutiques that stock them. I don't buy new bags every year, Jan Sport bags are pricey but they last so that is what two of mine have and lunch boxes etc either get reused or if new are needed I go to Home Store & more or similar and buy plain unbranded stuff. It would also help hugely if the Dept funded schools better and we didn't have to pay through the nose for arts & crafts and photocopying etc. Book rental schemes would also be great if available more widely.

Claw Hammer

Jumpers with crests should be outlawed. The schools get a kickback from the shops. Its totally corrupt. The minister says he can't do anything. So much for his expensive boarding school education. If he had been reared on the side of the road he'd find some way to do it.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

There are no doubt that schemes are needed for some families, and families helping themselves, or at least trying to, should always be helped. But it doesn't change the fact there are many parents out there taking complete advantage of schemes and grants in place to help genuine people who have fallen on hard times. I said earlier that if I ever found myself having no option, I would ask for assistance - as I've contributed towards that in way of PRSI.

I don't think anyone would judge someone needing help when they're genuinely trying to pull themselves back up but life keeps taking a sh it on them.

My issue personally is with parents who never work, who never intend on working and from when they find out their pregnant, they're looking for grants. In fact you'd wonder how much they're sucking from the genuine cases, because they'll know about everything they are "entitled to" and people who only need it on a once off basis wouldn't tend to know the list of entitlements. Complain how much proper lunches cost, how much it costs for XYZ but can afford nights out on the beer and holidays.


Are iPads mandatory in school now?

andekwarhola

LexieOnRale wrote: »

There are no doubt that schemes are needed for some families, and families helping themselves, or at least trying to, should always be helped. But it doesn't change the fact there are many parents out there taking complete advantage of schemes and grants in place to help genuine people who have fallen on hard times. I said earlier that if I ever found myself having no option, I would ask for assistance - as I've contributed towards that in way of PRSI.

I don't think anyone would judge someone needing help when they're genuinely trying to pull themselves back up but life keeps taking a sh it on them.

My issue personally is with parents who never work, who never intend on working and from when they find out their pregnant, they're looking for grants. In fact you'd wonder how much they're sucking from the genuine cases, because they'll know about everything they are "entitled to" and people who only need it on a once off basis wouldn't tend to know the list of entitlements. Complain how much proper lunches cost, how much it costs for XYZ but can afford nights out on the beer and holidays.


Are iPads mandatory in school now?

1.Post generalizing opinion.

2.Read post from struggling parent.

3. Add cosmetic proviso to post.

4. Post it again

5. Repeat until everybody gives up and you 'win'.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

LexieOnRale wrote: »

Nice for you lot? Sorry?
If I ever find myself needing help from social welfare, if I have absolutely no way of fending for myself, I will ask them for help. I have no issue with anyone falling on hard times and availing of it. That people pay PRSI for, after all. I do have issues with people who've never worked a day in their lives, following on from their parents never having worked, and their kids probably never will either, who'll bring children they can't afford to support into the world, and expect maternity grants, back to school every year, a council house, the free dole week at Christmas and whatever else is going for those who are "long term unemployed". The people who moan that 140 euro doesn't go far enough feeding and clothing their child, and should be means tested for those who don't need it, and blame the government for children living in poverty without looking anywhere near their own responsibility

Posted at 10:35,

Hate that though.

Lucyfur

Ipads are mandatory in some schools I'm sure.

My son has one for school. It's not mandatory but it's a necessity for him. There are a certain amount of grants available, afaik.

mariaalice

LexieOnRale wrote: »

Whatever. I agree with you in regards to crested uniforms and books that are no use after 3 years, but a lot of schools do book rental schemes. I would hope my posts sound like i would have a basic expectation for parents to support their own children instead of expecting the tax payers to pick up 100% of the cost. I don't see that being unreasonable

Has anyone said the tax payer should pick up 100% of the costs?

It never fails to surprise me how much pure hate there is for kids and parents in AH. I'm sure I'd notice it even more if I had kids of my own, but some of the sheer contempt is an eye opener to read.

Widdershins

Neyite wrote: »

Cant. School can and do send the kid home until they wear the "right" jumper. The smart thing to do would be to have a crest for a fiver to stick on any [insert colour] jumper but the schools seem to be in cahoots with the shops or something.




I'm the kind of person that has Christmas sorted and paid for before Halloween. But you can budget for all that stuff and then the car needs a new head gasket. Or the washing machine goes or whatever. My kid isn't actually in school yet, and I already know when I need to start saving for what he needs. Doesn't mean that I'm not allowed to mention why I'm not happy to pay over the odds for something, or that I'm a bad parent for not anticipating that extra €100 that was required somewhere in all the September expenses.

That is awful . What is their justification for sending them home because of the lack of a crest?


I'm completely with you on the unforeseen expenses. I have plenty of experience of several of them coming at once .Of course some will say I should have put away x amount a week per potential disaster. Except these rainy-day fivers and tenners mount up.

the_syco

One of the main things that should be done is to check why a book has an update, and should it be needed.

I've seen some books change around their chapters, and maybe some clarifications, but have also seen some geography books only correct spellings mistakes from previous versions.

If a publisher releases a revised version of a book every two years, it means less or no resale value. One main criminal are maths books; the revised versions seem to be published for the sake of it, and thus no second hand copies.

=-=

School uniforms should be forcibly made generic by the government, with a simple badge of their schools crest on them if need be. If all schools had the same uniforms, it would mean the larger chains could supply them, rather than one small shop in the nearby village supplying the entire school.

Dravokivich wrote: »

I don't care what the device is, but if the school are to insist on something like that, it should be through a leasing solution. Easily achievable in bulk too and would end up costing ye less than the price of the device.

IMO, if it's only books, they should've used kindles.

Neyite

Widdershins wrote: »

That is awful . What is their justification for sending them home because of the lack of a crest?

Dunno. Some schools are pretty strict on a dress code, some arent so much. And its the nature of people to try to set themselves slightly apart, so if the uniform is a crested green jumper, you might get the young rebel wearing an uncrested one, then the next kid goes one better and wears a different shade etc and before you know it, the only 'cool' one will be a designer pale green one or something. I know we tried to modify or adapt our uniforms in subtle ways that would go under the radar. You'd get caught and the item was confiscated until the end of the day.

Candie wrote: »

It never fails to surprise me how much pure hate there is for kids and parents in AH. I'm sure I'd notice it even more if I had kids of my own, but some of the sheer contempt is an eye opener to read.

It's pretty much every thread that is about parents, parenting, children. It can get pretty vitriolic at times and I just don't get it. It feels like sometimes you cant win - The criticism literally starts with the name you give them or well before (pregnant woman drinking coffee??). Bring kids to a cafe you piss people off. Keep them at home, you are a lazy fcuker who shouldn't have had kids. Kids are unwanted and unwelcome in pretty much every public space except McFcukingDonalds, yet if we were to bring them there we are singlehandedly bringing down the HSE with the obesity epidemic that we are causing. Try to teach your kid a bit of culture like maybe send them to a Gaelscoil, or go to museums and you are being a snobby pretentious twat. Stay at home parent = Sponger. Working parent = neglectful. So yeah, you'll never be the perfect parent here.

andekwarhola

Candie wrote: »

It never fails to surprise me how much pure hate there is for kids and parents in AH. I'm sure I'd notice it even more if I had kids of my own, but some of the sheer contempt is an eye opener to read.

Loads of them will eventually have kids themselves and morph into exactly the horrible more parent than thou archetypes that they're projecting on to others.

Being nasty and self absorbed is a lifelong trait. It just gets channeled into different expressions.

Neyite

Neyite wrote: »

It's pretty much every thread that is about parents, parenting, children. It can get pretty vitriolic at times and I just don't get it

Don't worry N, for every armchair childless parenting expert dripping with spite and vitriol, there's a few like me.

I don't mind the sound of kids playing, I like hearing them enjoy themselves. I think the vast, vast majority of parents are doing the best they can, and I think the vast majority of kids are good natured and mannered, even if they have the odd off-day.

I don't begrudge anyone with kids a little help with the cost of raising them, and I even think babies are cute. I've nephews and a niece I'd stand in front of a train to protect, so I can't imagine how cutting some of this poison is to a parent.

Don't let it get to you.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

I think there's a fine line though. Bring your kids out but don't deliberately make them shriek with excitement, or laugh when they take their socks off and throw them at the table next to them while people at the table are trying to eat their lunch.

I was in a cafe a few months back where a young lad came in soloing a football and his mother beaming at him like he was the second coming of Christ.

There are plenty of parents doing a good job, there are lots of well behaved kids about. I may be biased but the kids in my estate have got to be the best behaved kids ever. Kids will be kids and can't be expected to sit in silence or not have melt downs, but it's how some parents choose to deal with it gets people's backs up.

If I personally saw a mother smack her child in public, I'd be absolutely disgusted and would probably comment about it. If I see a parent in public laughing about bad behaviour, that's equally as sh1tty.

I don't see that as child hating. I see that as Lazy Parent hating.

Chain Smoker

Wait, I thought low income families could receive a grant for uniforms and such, and also don't have to pay for textbooks?

andekwarhola

andekwarhola wrote: »

Loads of them will eventually have kids themselves and morph into exactly the horrible more parent than thou archetypes that they're projecting on to others.

Being nasty and self absorbed is a lifelong trait. It just gets channeled into different expressions.

Not at all!

Their kids will be different.

BaaLamb

Chain Smoker wrote: »

Wait, I thought low income families could receive a grant for uniforms and such, and also don't have to pay for textbooks?

Nope. You only qualify for Back to School Allowance if you are in receipt of certain social welfare payments. Also, define what is a low income family?

Smondie

BaaLamb wrote: »

Chain Smoker wrote: »

Wait, I thought low income families could receive a grant for uniforms and such, and also don't have to pay for textbooks?

Nope. You only qualify for Back to School Allowance if you are in receipt of certain social welfare payments. Also, define what is a low income family?

Low income

Couple Income limit
1 child 563.60
2 children 593.40
3 children 623.20
4 children 653*


Lone parent Income limit
1 child 410.10
2 children 439.90
3 children 469.70
4 children 499.50*

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/social_welfare_payments_to_families_and_children/back_to_school_clothing_and_footwear_allowance.html

coffee_cake

Neyite wrote: »

Dunno. Some schools are pretty strict on a dress code, some arent so much. And its the nature of people to try to set themselves slightly apart, so if the uniform is a crested green jumper, you might get the young rebel wearing an uncrested one, then the next kid goes one better and wears a different shade etc and before you know it, the only 'cool' one will be a designer pale green one or something. I know we tried to modify or adapt our uniforms in subtle ways that would go under the radar. You'd get caught and the item was confiscated until the end of the day.



It's pretty much every thread that is about parents, parenting, children. It can get pretty vitriolic at times and I just don't get it. It feels like sometimes you cant win - The criticism literally starts with the name you give them or well before (pregnant woman drinking coffee??). Bring kids to a cafe you piss people off. Keep them at home, you are a lazy fcuker who shouldn't have had kids. Kids are unwanted and unwelcome in pretty much every public space except McFcukingDonalds, yet if we were to bring them there we are singlehandedly bringing down the HSE with the obesity epidemic that we are causing. Try to teach your kid a bit of culture like maybe send them to a Gaelscoil, or go to museums and you are being a snobby pretentious twat. Stay at home parent = Sponger. Working parent = neglectful. So yeah, you'll never be the perfect parent here.

And you know all parents have plenty of money all the time to set aside every week and never have normal ongoing bills and clothes going up in size all the time or doctor visits or emergencies and if they don't have loads left over they're just useless and lazy

BaaLamb

bluewolf wrote: »

And you know all parents have plenty of money all the time to set aside every week and never have normal ongoing bills and clothes going up in size all the time or doctor visits or emergencies and if they don't have loads left over they're just useless and lazy

I also find that the stress on finances around Back to School is also exacerbated by the fact that all this new stuff is needed during the summer months when you're already paying out for additional childcare in some shape or form.

I was thinking about the comments about going on holiday etc. The last time we went abroad for a holiday was 2010 and my parents paid for it. The last two years we went camping locally for a week and this year we couldn't afford to do anything. Somehow I seem to be doing the spending of the mickey money wrong:rolleyes:

Wigglepuppy

BaaLamb wrote: »

know this is After Hours and I'll probably get a flea in my ear for my post but I've found this whole thread quite upsetting. So much judgemental stuff going on and so many people who appear to be convinced that those who can't save money from the children's allowance or save all year or budget in the same way as they do are quite obviously lazy scroungers.

I planned my three children, I worked after the first one was born and for a while after the second one was born but the second child kept getting ear infections and the creche refused to take her with them. I gave up work, set up a small sideline business that was compatible with kids and husband worked away. Had third child and all seemed to be going well until out of the blue in 2008 my husband was made redundant and the ass fell out of the world in general. I went back to work (lucky to have gotten my old job back) and I worked and worked and worked, minded the kids while hubby went back to Uni to try to upskill. Uni was 4 hours away so he was only home at weekends. We paid our mortgage, our creche fees and all rest of it all the ways through the recession. I changed jobs and moved to the city he was studying in and I worked, worked, worked. We never had much in the way of disposable income but we paid our bills and made sure the kids could do a few activities etc. The children's allowance was part of our monthly budget, it went towards shoes, clothes, food, activities but it was most certainly never spent on holidays, smoking, drinking etc. as people have implied.

The back to school thing is just an additional strain for a family that is always strained and it is a time of year I always dread. The tracksuit has to come from one place, the school coat another etc etc. We try and pick up bits and pieces over the summer but invariably we still have a hefty final bill. This year the second child is starting secondary school and we had to buy an iPad plus iPad insurance and iPad case plus ebooks and then a whole load of stationery as well. Without thinking about uniforms I've spent the guts of €700 already on the one child. Thing is while all of this is a financial strain I want my children to have what they need so I pay for it and while I was working I can manage to juggle the costs.

Thing is I've just been made redundant and my husband's contract is up in another month, neither of us are having much luck finding new work so far. So this thread fills me with fear about the judgements that will be made about me and my family if we need to access the back to school allowance or any other allowance. I'm filled with fear about life on social welfare and about ever getting a job again so threads like this with so many people talking about how they can budget and save make people like me who are struggling to get by feel like absolute crap about themselves. I'm pretty sure the vast majority of people struggling with the additional costs back to school time brings are just like me and my family. I would never have had children if I had known how crappy the last 8 years would have been and now it looks like we are back to even crappier times.

Wow, you're some woman (and your husband is some man). Very best wishes.

The above is an example of a situation that illustrates the inanity of "if you can't afford children don't have them" when applied across the board.

Smondie

BaaLamb wrote: »

bluewolf wrote: »

And you know all parents have plenty of money all the time to set aside every week and never have normal ongoing bills and clothes going up in size all the time or doctor visits or emergencies and if they don't have loads left over they're just useless and lazy

I also find that the stress on finances around Back to School is also exacerbated by the fact that all this new stuff is needed during the summer months when you're already paying out for additional childcare in some shape or form.

I was thinking about the comments about going on holiday etc. The last time we went abroad for a holiday was 2010 and my parents paid for it. The last two years we went camping locally for a week and this year we couldn't afford to do anything. Somehow I seem to be doing the spending of the mickey money wrong:rolleyes:

There's only one solution
1. Dump your partner.
2.have a few more kids with a few different fathers
3. Profit

lawlolawl

Jesus, being a parent sounds really ****e going by this thread

Lisha

Dravokivich wrote: »

Just typical of you really.

Parents do not have issues with clothing their children.

They have issues with bespoke clothes that are only available for them to get in one place.

They have issues with school books that have a short lifetime which can't be passed onto siblings or have a very limited opportunity for selling off or purchasing second hand.

Yes the issue I have is with the bespoke uniforms.
We have a new principal who is trying her hardest to change from a non crested jumper and tracksuit to crested versions. I cannot understand this fir primary school. I like to have 2 jumpers as I work and if jumper gets dirty I don't have time to wash/dry it. The extra cost caused by the crested is silly to me.