Knife Attack London

Spanish Eyes

Terrorism and bombings and other atrocities that happen outside the so called "Western Sphere" are not NEWS to many of us here in EU for example. Sure they are killing each other every day over there aren't they, so what's new?

They are not reported in our media to any great degree AFAIS.

But when something happens close by (relatively speaking), it's all Sky News 24/7

That's just the way it works.

I'm sure Al Jazeera and similar, doesn't report all that much on things outside it's own audience either.

The_Kew_Tour

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

• Mass stabbings
• Shootings
• Bombings

Hope that clarifies it for you.

Oh, you already downgrading

Butters1979

Samaris wrote: »

..that's oddly specific. Afraid if you give any lower numbers for a very specific form of attack for a seven-month period it might actually be doable?

Having said that, bombing in particular is a particularly terrorism-related stunt. Loud, many casualties, scares the crap out of people. And there are many different variations of terrorism in the world, even though I suspect Islamic terrorism was what was being discussed.

I think we both know that if you'd been somewhat fair in your challenge and actually let him have even 100 non-terrorism relating stabbings/shootings/bombings, he wouldn't raise a sweat.

What's your point exactly? Bad stuff happens already so we just just accept even more? Why is it every time something like this happens people try to distract from it with weird crap like this. It's excusing it. It's belittling it and anyone who does that condones it. Innocent people are getting attacked and you're doing everything you can to talk it down and act like its something we should just accept. You're a disgrace.

Samaris

Butters1979 wrote: »

What's your point exactly? Bad stuff happens already so we just just accept even more? Why is it every time something like this happens people try to distract from it with weird crap like this. It's excusing it. It's belittling it and anyone who does that condones it. Innocent people are getting attacked and you're doing everything you can to talk it down and act like its something we should just accept. You're a disgrace.

Wow. Er...did you actually read my post, or did you see "person calling someone out, must attack". I'm a disgrace for pointing out that the challenge to name 20 non-terrorist-related bombings in a seven-month period is unreasonable, when the original comment he was attacking referred to shootings, stabbings AND bombings as things that shouldn't prevent one from travelling because there is always a slight danger and if you wait until there's no chance of it ever happening, you'll never leave the house again?

If that's your definition of a disgrace, sure, I'll own it. I'll be a disgrace that won't let fear rule me or give that victory to the cowardly bastards that bomb innocent people.

..Actually, I just went back and read that again, and I think it makes even less sense than it did the first time. So...in your mind, because I dislike Blaas' artificially narrowing someone's argument to make it as hard to "prove" his point as possible, because it's a dishonest debating technique - ultimately, and through several leaps of logic, I'm condoning terrorism. I mean...what the -actual- fcuk?

Blaas - yeah, found twenty. Although it did make for an interesting internal debate with myself as to where the line between hate attacks and terrorism is drawn. I could get behind the assassinations - they were definitely bombs and specific murders, more so the organised crime ones. Politicians, hm, that's attacking an ideal again, so it COULD be called terrorism, but in the end, it is an assassination/murder. What about when people firebomb churches? Hate crime or terrorism? In the end, I had to just go with the ones that were specifically reported as "hate crime" rather than "terrorism", but with a hefty caveat of the line being nebulous.

I'll post them if you really want the list, or you can take my word for it; this post is just getting rather long with the response to that bizarre accusation going on up the page.

Samaris

I'm also probably on about sixteen international watchlists due to my googling of the past hour.

Grayson

Samaris wrote: »

I'm also probably on about sixteen international watchlists due to my googling of the past hour.

Just don't mention echelon... Oh fcuk.

LuckyRoche

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

No they weren't. You can find plenty of mass stabbings, shootings and bombings unconnected with terrorism every year across the world.

Not in Europe you can't. These things garner so much media attention due to the fact that they're so rare here. Or were.

NIMAN

Its just the way of the media at present, that they are trying so hard to tie everything to ISIS.

This was simply a case of a nutter stabbing someone with a knife and killing them. Probably happened in a dozen other places around the world the same day, but wasn't reported on 24/7 because it didn't happen in London.

London has its fair share of crazy people too, law of averages.

BalcombeSt4

jackofalltrades wrote: »

Insults, yeah that's just what a thread of speculation and jumping the gun needed.

To be fair if you heard a bomb went of in England in the 70's & 90's you would have assumed it was Irish people.

BalcombeSt4

Samaris wrote: »

..that's oddly specific. Afraid if you give any lower numbers for a very specific form of attack for a seven-month period it might actually be doable?

Having said that, bombing in particular is a particularly terrorism-related stunt. Loud, many casualties, scares the crap out of people. And there are many different variations of terrorism in the world, even though I suspect Islamic terrorism was what was being discussed.

I think we both know that if you'd been somewhat fair in your challenge and actually let him have even 100 non-terrorism relating stabbings/shootings/bombings, he wouldn't raise a sweat.

More conventional style bombing like a stealth bomber does the same thing tho & probably doubles the amount of people terrorized by it.

Richard Hillman

The Cucks denied that mass islamic immigration would cause social issues and that we a wacists we questioned it. Now that all of people's fears came through, the Cucks are now denying that mass and copycat stabbings are even a newsworthy issue.

They are desperately trying to convince themselves that they were not wrong. One thing that left wingers cling onto in life is that they think they are more intelligent that others (and they'll be the first to tell you). This is despite predominantly working is low paid jobs and having severe social and personal issues. The fact they have been proven wrong kills their false belief that they are intelligent.

Timberrrrrrrr

Richard Hillman wrote: »

The Cucks denied that mass islamic immigration would cause social issues and that we a wacists we questioned it. Now that all of people's fears came through, the Cucks are now denying that mass and copycat stabbings are even a newsworthy issue.

They are desperately trying to convince themselves that they were not wrong. One thing that left wingers cling onto in life is that they think they are more intelligent that others (and they'll be the first to tell you). This is despite predominantly working is low paid jobs and having severe social and personal issues. The fact they have been proven wrong kills their false belief that they are intelligent.

LMAO

Have you seen the kind of neanderthals who go to EDL or Britain first rallies? :rolleyes:

Little CuChulainn

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Name 20 this year.

20 bombings this year? I doubt I could off hand. It's an oddly specific request. Have you being searching for reports of terrorist bombings this year and found twenty so you decided if I couldn't do the same then I was wrong? Whatever floats your boat. I'll start looking back through the news reports of the Army bomb disposal being called this year and let you know how many I can find that were classed as viable devices.

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Oh, you already downgrading

Are you telling me what I meant or giving me a grammar lesson? I don't know which is the sadder tactic.

LuckyRoche wrote: »

Not in Europe you can't. These things garner so much media attention due to the fact that they're so rare here. Or were.

They are only getting attention when people think they can link them to terrorism.

Samaris

BalcombeSt4 wrote: »

More conventional style bombing like a stealth bomber does the same thing tho & probably doubles the amount of people terrorized by it.

Oh, yeah, of course, but ..hm, I wasn't really taking acts of war into account. It doesn't tend to get reported in the same way (well, bar one where the French apparently deliberately dropped thirty munitions on a Syrian village and killed over a hundred civilians just after Nice). Terrorism tends to be applied to non-state actors committing unfocused (or semi-focused; they may target a group of people, but they don't tend to have a personal grudge against any of them) mass damage, injuries or killings with the intent of terrorising a population into doing what they want. Drone strikes definitely cause terror, mass damage and mass injuries against a specific group of people, but they are carried out by state actors with the specific purpose of destroying ISIS targets. They tend to -try- and avoid civilian areas.

That definitely puts things like Dresden, Hiroshima/Nagasaki and the Blitz into a grey area. It fits all the qualifications bar that it was a definite act of war during a declared war.

Little CuChulainn

Richard Hillman wrote: »

The Cucks denied that mass islamic immigration would cause social issues and that we a wacists we questioned it. Now that all of people's fears came through, the Cucks are now denying that mass and copycat stabbings are even a newsworthy issue.

They are desperately trying to convince themselves that they were not wrong. One thing that left wingers cling onto in life is that they think they are more intelligent that others (and they'll be the first to tell you). This is despite predominantly working is low paid jobs and having severe social and personal issues. The fact they have been proven wrong kills their false belief that they are intelligent.

When you consider that the vast majority of attacks are committed by people who have been born and bred in Europe, how do you link it to current immigration?

Richard Hillman

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

When you consider that the vast majority of attacks are committed by people who have been born and bred in Europe, how do you link it to current immigration?

That the children of these immigrants will be similar or worse than the last batch. We're just increasing the numbers

Richard Hillman

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

LMAO

Have you seen the kind of neanderthals who go to EDL or Britain first rallies? :rolleyes:

LMAO

Have you seen the kind of Neanderthals who go to AAA/PBP or Left Republican rallies? :rolleyes:


See how easy that is.

Timberrrrrrrr

Richard Hillman wrote: »

LMAO

Have you seen the kind of Neanderthals who go to AAA/PBP or Left Republican rallies? :rolleyes:


See how easy that is.

I have indeed, but claiming left wing people are less educated is an idiotic statement to make, unless of course you have proof of this? I'll be over here not holding my breath while you trot off and find the evidence to back up your claim.

Tombi!

Richard Hillman wrote: »

The Cucks denied that mass islamic immigration would cause social issues and that we a wacists we questioned it. Now that all of people's fears came through, the Cucks are now denying that mass and copycat stabbings are even a newsworthy issue.

They are desperately trying to convince themselves that they were not wrong. One thing that left wingers cling onto in life is that they think they are more intelligent that others (and they'll be the first to tell you). This is despite predominantly working is low paid jobs and having severe social and personal issues. The fact they have been proven wrong kills their false belief that they are intelligent.

mod Here's a nice idea: why don't you continue to post without the random insults and I won't thread ban you.

Samaris

Samaris wrote: »

I'm also probably on about sixteen international watchlists due to my googling of the past hour.

Probably just doubled because you suspect it is happening :pac:

HamsterFace

Zubeneschamali wrote:

Easier still - stay right here and vote your kind down.

Little CuChulainn wrote:

When you consider that the vast majority of attacks are committed by people who have been born and bred in Europe, how do you link it to current immigration?

I suppose you'll have to link it to Islam then

What else is tying these people to something that's happening thousands of miles away

Timberrrrrrrr

HamsterFace wrote: »

I suppose you'll have to link it to Islam then

What else is tying these people to something that's happening thousands of miles away

Probably the same thing that made millions of 2nd and 3rd generation Americans donate large amounts of money to the IRA.

HamsterFace

Timberrrrrrrr wrote:

Probably the same thing that made millions of 2nd and 3rd generation Americans donate large amounts of money to the IRA.

Similar but not the same. One was heritage, the other is religion.

Timberrrrrrrr

HamsterFace wrote: »

Similar but not the same. One was heritage, the other is religion.

Kinship

HamsterFace

Timberrrrrrrr wrote:

Kinship

Yep.

silverharp

still though when the falklands war was on, I never felt the urge to stand with my fellow Argentianian Catholics against the evil Protestant British

Timberrrrrrrr

HamsterFace wrote: »

Yep.

So what's the difference between a 2nd/3rd generation irish/American supporting a terrorist organisation and a 2nd/3rd generation afghan/syrian/iraqi doing the same?

Little CuChulainn

Richard Hillman wrote: »

That the children of these immigrants will be similar or worse than the last batch. We're just increasing the numbers

How does that solve the current problem? Surely it's best to address the issue now instead of ban immigrants and hope terrorism stops in 20 years through attrition.

silverharp

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

So what's the difference between a 2nd/3rd generation irish/American supporting a terrorist organisation and a 2nd/3rd generation afghan/syrian/iraqi doing the same?

but why does the second generation afghan overly care about what is happening in Syria? Britain or France isn't doing anything to Pakistan as far as I am aware so "logically" second generation kids from Pakistan should not be showing up in terrorist statistics which I am sure they are.

HamsterFace

Timberrrrrrrr wrote:

So what's the difference between a 2nd/3rd generation irish/American supporting a terrorist organisation and a 2nd/3rd generation afghan/syrian/iraqi doing the same?

I didn't say there was?
Just said it was there religion that was linking them

Maximus Alexander

The_Valeyard wrote: »

I often found that about London, you might not see many police, but when anything happens (fights, etc) police show up very quickly. Probably all the CCTV in operation.

A friend and I got attacked by a gang of louts in Manchester years back. A security guard in a nearby Tesco called the police and they were there in minutes. They took us to hospital, arrested 8 guys and even spoke to our hotel for us and arranged a late checkout on our behalf. They took statements the following morning and then a couple of months later we were informed that they'd been successfully prosecuted and 8 jail sentences handed down. The police over there are excellent.

Maximus Alexander

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

A friend and I got attacked by a gang of louts in Manchester years back. A security guard in a nearby Tesco called the police and they were there in minutes. They took us to hospital, arrested 8 guys and even spoke to our hotel for us and arranged a late checkout on our behalf. They took statements the following morning and then a couple of months later we were informed that they'd been successfully prosecuted and 8 jail sentences handed down. The police over there are excellent.

They really are.

Their system over there is superb and, as someone mentioned, while you might not see a visible police presence somewhere, they'll always be there somewhere.

It's especially why people should try not to worry about terrorist attacks in London - after the 7/7 attacks on the underground and buses, they have worked hard on being prepared, with holding yearly drills in such an eventuality.

I'd be more worried about an ISIS Paris style attack in Ireland, because I really don't know how our police are prepared for that situation. Sure, they have a lot of experience with the IRA, but that's a whole different league to what ISIS is capable of ..

Timberrrrrrrr

silverharp wrote: »

but why does the second generation afghan overly care about what is happening in Syria? Britain or France isn't doing anything to Pakistan as far as I am aware so "logically" second generation kids from Pakistan should not be showing up in terrorist statistics which I am sure they are.

They care about what's happening in the countries the same as 2nd Gen Americans cares about what was happening in Ireland. Haven't seen any Pakistani terror statistics but feel free to pop up a link. Then again there have been numerous drone strikes in Pakistan that have killed scores of innocent civilians.

LuckyRoche

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

How does that solve the current problem? Surely it's best to address the issue now instead of ban immigrants and hope terrorism stops in 20 years through attrition.

Letting millions more come in unchecked from the region certainly isn't the solution.

Timberrrrrrrr

HamsterFace wrote: »

I didn't say there was?
Just said it was there religion that was linking them

Sure all those ira men were catholics does that mean religion was a link?

HamsterFace

Timberrrrrrrr wrote:

Sure all those ira men were catholics does that mean religion was a link?

You're going out of your way to find an argument where there is none and if you read over the comments you will see you even agreed with the, very basic, comment I made.

Get your back down man, it's early :-)

silverharp

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

They care about what's happening in the countries the same as 2nd Gen Americans cares about what was happening in Ireland. Haven't seen any Pakistani terror statistics but feel free to pop up a link. Then again there have been numerous drone strikes in Pakistan that have killed scores of innocent civilians.

look at in in reverse though , French or Spanish catholics didn't rush money to the IRA because they were Catholic or that Catholics might have been treated badly. Islam seems to do far better of job of if you offend one muslim you have offended a billion of them

Timberrrrrrrr

silverharp wrote: »

look at in in reverse though , French or Spanish catholics didn't rush money to the IRA because they were Catholic or that Catholics might have been treated badly.

But the Irish did head off to Spain to fight and protect the Catholic Church there.

Islam seems to do far better of job of if you offend one muslim you have offended a billion of them

Again lumping all in with one sweep of the brush, I work with a Muslim woman who has a wicked sense of humour and live couple of doors away from a Muslim doctor who chats with me on a regular basis. Neither has tried to behead me yet but I'll get back to you if they ever try :rolleyes:

Widdershins

Anyone still insisting Islamic Extremism has nothing to do with religion and anything to do with drones need to catch up . Do a bit of reading , listen to the Muslim reformists You should start by reading IS's latest announcement affirming that they hate ''you '' because you're not Muslim . They hate everything about Western culture and even if you become their slaves and pay their protection money they will hate you . IF YOU CONVERT to Islam they will ''stop fighting you but still hate you ''.

Widdershins

Widdershins wrote: »

Anyone still insisting Islamic Extremism has nothing to do with religion and anything to do with drones need to catch up . Do a bit of reading , listen to the Muslim reformists You should start by reading IS's latest announcement affirming that they hate ''you '' because you're not Muslim . They hate everything about Western culture and even if you become their slaves and pay their protection money they will hate you . IF YOU CONVERT to Islam they will ''stop fighting you but still hate you ''.

... just sounds like bogstandard propaganda, which isn't unique to their situation.

Widdershins

Deleted User wrote: »

... just sounds like bogstandard propaganda, which isn't unique to their situation.

Are you saying they can't be believed because , what , they don't really mean it?

From the horses mouth and some people can't accept it. That is classic denial.

silverharp

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

But the Irish did head off to Spain to fight and protect the Catholic Church there.

not in my life time they havnt , also how many Irish Americans actually fought for the IRA in NI? , I'm guessing near zero if not actually zero. If at most European or American Muslims were fund raising for terrorists in their particular homeland it wouldn't be great but you might get it to a certain point but its magnitudes worse.

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Again lumping all in with one sweep of the brush, I work with a Muslim woman who has a wicked sense of humour and live couple of doors away from a Muslim doctor who chats with me on a regular basis. Neither has tried to behead me yet but I'll get back to you if they ever try :rolleyes:

its a % thing , for every molenbeek or Luton there is going to be active promotion of extremism and hatred of the host country and its values.

Timberrrrrrrr

Widdershins wrote: »

Are you saying they can't be believed because , what , they don't really mean it?

From the horses mouth and some people can't accept it. That is classic denial.

Widdershins wrote: »

Anyone still insisting Islamic Extremism has nothing to do with religion and anything to do with drones need to catch up . Do a bit of reading , listen to the Muslim reformists You should start by reading IS's latest announcement affirming that they hate ''you '' because you're not Muslim . They hate everything about Western culture and even if you become their slaves and pay their protection money they will hate you . IF YOU CONVERT to Islam they will ''stop fighting you but still hate you ''.

But when they post video saying g they are committing an act because of the bombing of civilians by drones you refuse to accept that even when it's from the proverbial horses mouth?

Widdershins

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

I work with a Muslim woman who has a wicked sense of humour and live couple of doors away from a Muslim doctor who chats with me on a regular basis. Neither has tried to behead me yet but I'll get back to you if they ever try :rolleyes:

The fact that Muslims are capable of decency was not questioned (that I'm aware of )

Widdershins

Widdershins wrote: »

Are you saying they can't be believed because , what , they don't really mean it?

From the horses mouth and some people can't accept it. That is classic denial.

As someone pointed out, you're in denial about the fact that numerous ISIS propaganda have made mention of bombings of their homes.

It's the point of propaganda - you use as many things as possible ways to reach as many as possible. The one you quoted was obviously targeted at the disenfranchised youth, of which there is many, and which normally makes up the ranks of their forces.

Widdershins

Deleted User wrote: »

As someone pointed out, you're in denial about the fact that numerous ISIS propaganda have made mention of bombings of their homes.

It's the point of propaganda - you use as many things as possible ways to reach as many as possible. The one you quoted was obviously targeted at the disenfranchised youth, of which there is many, and which normally makes up the ranks of their forces.

As who pointed out? Nobody mentioned me .No I am not , I'm aware of the theme of their announcements and if I am wrong then so are the experts, the whole community of reformists and academics . I don't know why you insist on divorcing religion from extremism , it's regressive and obstructs reform.

Widdershins

Widdershins wrote: »

As who pointed out? Nobody mentioned me .No I am not , I'm aware of the theme of their announcements and if I am wrong then so are the experts, the whole community of reformists and academics . I don't know why you insist on divorcing religion from extremism , it's regressive and obstructs reform.

Where is the proof by the experts and academics that you mention?

Also --

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

But when they post video saying g they are committing an act because of the bombing of civilians by drones you refuse to accept that even when it's from the proverbial horses mouth?

There you go.

Widdershins

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

But when they post video saying g they are committing an act because of the bombing of civilians by drones you refuse to accept that even when it's from the proverbial horses mouth?

When did I do that ? They are attacking many targets most of whom had no hand in bombing anyone . They are killing civilians themselves . It is not that civilian deaths aren't an issue but isis is not about grievances for innocent people and it's naive to think they are. There are better ways to support people affected by war than to be an unwitting accessory to vicious indiscriminate terrorists .

Timberrrrrrrr

Widdershins wrote: »

When did I do that ? They are attacking many targets most of whom had no hand in bombing anyone . They are killing civilians themselves . It is not that civilian deaths aren't an issue but isis is not about grievances for innocent people and it's naive to think they are. There are better ways to support people affected by war than to be an unwitting accessory to vicious indiscriminate terrorists .

When you said

still insisting Islamic Extremism has nothing to do with religion and anything to do with drones

Widdershins

Deleted User wrote: »

Where is the proof by the experts and academics that you mention?

Also --


There you go.

Have you ever looked ? I know the pattern of Boards threads and it is more about scoring points so I don't believe you are interested . One of my favourite reformists is Aayan Hirsi Ali, I would start with her work . She explains well why it's unhelpful to try to deny the religious aspect of extremism .