Official GAA Proposal of New Championship Structure

statto25

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

Ah feck, they need some sliotars then! I remember they were champions when I was a kid but having never played hurling, I haven't paid attention to it since I moved away from the county.

They won it back in 2001. Since then Tooreen and Ballyhaunis have dominated bar Ballina who won in 2007.

deadybai

Hurling once again being fcuked over. Why should the hurling championship be finished before the football semis begin? Completely makes it look like the secondary sport.

Any Kilkenny fan who has the next 5 first Sunday's in September booked off is screwed :pac:

keane2097

Who gives a **** about hurling tbf?

Boom__Boom

A big elephant in the room is how poorly the bottom teams are doing.

Division 4 teams played 18 championship games this year and lost 15 of them.

The only wins were when one Division 4 side played another Division 4 side.

keane2097

Boom__Boom wrote: »

A big elephant in the room is how poorly the bottom teams are doing.

Division 4 teams played 18 championship games this year and lost 15 of them.

The only wins were when one Division 4 side played another Division 4 side.

How is it an elephant in a room that the worst teams have the worst results?

This seems to be more of the loose logic about how league and championship feed into one another.

The teams in Division 4 are in Division 4 because they are crap, they are not all crap because they are in Division 4.

Shurimgreat

The proposed reshuffle is a good idea. At least defeated provincial winners like Galway and Monaghan in recent years get a second deserved chance. It also guarantees more quality games.

I read some people say today there should be a 8 groups of 4 to include all 32 counties and do away with provincial championships.

That would be just more of the same low quality games we already have in the early rounds of the provincial championships with a lot less of the excitement or having something on the line.

Good move from the GAA.

ahlookit

So with more games for top counties, presumably we can expect to see more stories like this in the coming years (these are just the first ones I thought of)...

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/karl-lacey-happy-living-the-life-of-a-full-time-footballer-1.2192388

http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/football/2015/0128/676122-darran-osullivan-quits-job-to-focus-on-recovery/

http://www.sportsjoe.ie/gaa/kieran-donaghy-quits-job-to-go-full-time-with-kerry/24414

How are weaker counties with less resources, currently struggling to pay lads travel expenses for training, going to compete?

BonnieSituation

keane2097 wrote: »

Who gives a **** about hurling tbf?

A lot of people do.

But the last 6-8 years. Has seen it go into an almost terminal decline.

As much as I hate the football Championship structure as it is. The hurling championship is in dire need of an overhaul.

Whatever about your crowd hopping into an AISF after 3 matches KK have a cakewalk every single year al because of the way Leinster's structured.

There's 12 "Liam McCarthy teams" add in the next 4 qand just have a proper knockout already. No second chances just great "everything on the line knock-out" hurling.

Anyway I digress.

ahlookit wrote: »

So with more games for top counties, presumably we can expect to see more stories like this in the coming years (these are just the first ones I thought of)...

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/karl-lacey-happy-living-the-life-of-a-full-time-footballer-1.2192388

http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/football/2015/0128/676122-darran-osullivan-quits-job-to-focus-on-recovery/

http://www.sportsjoe.ie/gaa/kieran-donaghy-quits-job-to-go-full-time-with-kerry/24414

How are weaker counties with less resources, currently struggling to pay lads travel expenses for training, going to compete?

That has nothing to do with championship structure.

Mehapoy

keane2097 wrote: »

Who gives a **** about hurling tbf?

All of the pastoral areas of Munster and the fine tillage land of leinster, its not called bog ball for nothing you know!

seligehgit

At first glance this is a very positive and innovative pathway of reform,a full open draw with the abolition of provincial championships was never going to be a runner.

Chit chatting about same on OTB.

Dirty Dingus McGee

BarryD wrote: »

Sounds ridiculous to me! Instead of simplifying the All Ireland champs, they're proposing to add more games and make it more complicated.

Widely reported that attendances are falling, the provincial competitions are broadly predictable, the weaker counties are getting weaker and so on.

The above will result in more games (more gate receipts & income to GAA, though falling attendances will counteract that) and stack the odds even more towards the stronger counties.

The real answer is not rocket science: let all the teams enter one open draw and once a team is bet, that's it. By all means have a separate competition for those knocked out in the first round. That at least would shake things up and concentrate the mind. You'd have the real excitement of a knock out competition.

The straight knockout was already done away with because teams trained a whole year for juts one match and were gone.It is not coming back.Knockout competition would lead to as a many mismatches and less matches overall, players and fans want more matches and in particular more matches between the best teams , it may not be perfect but this suggestion is a start.

Dirty Dingus McGee

What has to happen for this suggestion to get through and come into force?

I assume it has to get through congress because if that's the case I'd be worried as with people seeing how difficult it would be for Ulster counties (although in reality not much more difficult than in Leinster just Leinster is in a bit of a slump at the moment)I can see the Ulster counties voting against it out of pure self interest like most counties who vote against any suggestions in the GAA.

The key thing also is to make sure this quarter final groups come into the championship earlier in the summer and the provincials and qualifiers come really thick and fast at the start of the year so the sh1te part of the championship is over by the end of June and July consists only of the 3rd and 4th round qualifiers provincial finals and the start of the new quarter final set up.Also by having a tighter schedule and running off the provincials and early round qualifiers before the end of June it free up most counties for club action before the middle of the summer.

thesultan

I think the hurling championship is fine , it's just Kilkenny and Tipperary are that bit better than the rest. Finally county grounds will get some use in the football. Will be great to see.

Dirty Dingus McGee

thesultan wrote: »

I think the hurling championship is fine , it's just Kilkenny and Tipperary are that bit better than the rest. Finally county grounds will get some use in the football. Will be great to see.

I disagree.

They need to get rid of the provincials in hurling (I think there might be more chance of it happening in hurling than football) and have 2 groups of 6 with each team playing 5 matches.

Just think of how entertaining that would be in the middle of summer.

ebbsy

Shurimgreat wrote: »

The proposed reshuffle is a good idea. At least defeated provincial winners like Galway and Monaghan in recent years get a second deserved chance. It also guarantees more quality games.

I read some people say today there should be a 8 groups of 4 to include all 32 counties and do away with provincial championships.

That would be just more of the same low quality games we already have in the early rounds of the provincial championships with a lot less of the excitement or having something on the line.

Good move from the GAA.

The 8 groups of 4 would work if it was 4 groups a & b home and away promotion and relegation.

Weaker counties are living in a dreamworld.

threeball

It's the answer to the question that nobody asked. Fiddling round the edges so as not to upset the flutes who run the provinces. Are those who vote at congress not given a mandate by their club and shouldn't they vote accordingly. It's a joke.

The provincial have to go. The league needs to be bigger and championship go back to straight knock out open draw. Play games every second week either league or championship and have club games the weeks in between. Squad players get a run, club players play games and the top teams play each other all season while the smaller teams get to progress at their own level.

rpurfield

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Duffy even said it today; there's no appetite so people can stop suggesting B championships.

I think the counties involved need to cop on to themselves to be honest, either way they are training lads all year to go and get bet out of the championship by the end of June. It does nothing for anyone within them counties. The Ring, Rackard and Meaghar cups are well contested in hurling so why can't counties have more sense in the football end of things.

In terms of the proposal, I think it's a load of rubbish to be honest, it's squeezing more games from the bigger counties for gates and that's all. It does nothing to address things like the 40% of lads asked into the Longford squad opting out or the Galway lads that opted out and so on. The problems at the moment are bigger than tagging on a few more games to get more gates out of the Dubs or Kerry or Mayo. As said above I hope to God it's a short term staging post to a competition that is modelled on group stages and knock out, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

threeball

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

I disagree.

They need to get rid of the provincials in hurling (I think there might be more chance of it happening in hurling than football) and have 2 groups of 6 with each team playing 5 matches.

Just think of how entertaining that would be in the middle of summer.

That's exactly what hurling needs. Couldn't believe my ears two weeks ago when I heard them mention that wexford had only played Waterford once before. They share a border ffs and are generally pretty close in terms of standard.

They also need to separate the TV rights for hurling and football. As a single package it's too easy for one station to focus on the football. There's also more revenue to be made by splitting them

funnyname

StupidLikeAFox wrote: »

"This structure does nothing for the weaker counties"

What structure will?

If you are a weaker county you are still going to be a weaker county in any structure. Bridging the gap between strong and weak counties is a far more complex issue than tweaking the format of the championship

This is the way I'd do it, a bit similar to the championship here in Clare. I would get rid of the spring leagues and base the championship off the final league placings. Open draw between division 3 and 4, play down to 4 teams, same for divisions 1 & 2 however the losers of the last set of games in this section would play the final 4 of the div 3 & 4 section. This would provide the 8 1/4 finalists, open draw straight knockout

Set it up so that there would be at least 3 games for everyone, we we need to get away from the provincial series.

Top section division 1 & 2 teams

(teams as the end of the league taking promotion and relegation into account so this gives the division 3 teams a mighty carrot and the poorer division 2 teams an even bigger stick)

Round 1 would be an open draw with 8 winners going through to round 2a where they would play each other with the 4 winners going to through to round 5.

Round 1 losers would go through to round 2b where they would play each other with the winners going through to round 4.

Losers of rounds 2a and 2b would play in round 3 with the winners going through to round 4 and the losers leaving the championship.

The winners of round 3 and 2b would play in round 4 with the winners of round going through to face the winners of round 2a in round 5.

So onto round 5, winners go through to the All-Ireland quarter finals, the losers faces the final 4 from the bottom section made up of division 3 and 4 teams.

Bottom section division 3 and 4 teams

Round 1 would be an open draw with 8 winners going through to round 2a where they would play each other with the 4 winners going to through to round 5.

Round 1 losers would go through to round 2b where they would play each other with the winners going through to round 4.

Losers of rounds 2a and 2b would play in round 3 with the winners going through to round 4 and the losers leaving the championship.

The winners of round 3 and 2b would play in round 4 with the winners of round going through to face the winners of round 2a in round 5.

So onto round 5, winners go play the 4 teams that lose in round 5 of the top section and the winners of these games go through to the 4 remaining 1/4 spots.

Open draw throughout with where possible no repeat of earlier games until the final, also no replays until the quarter finals.

please flag an errors or omissions

K-9

Ignores the weaker counties yet again!

Doesn't address the biggest issue this year and every year:

8 teams with only 2 games in the Summer,
Maybe another 8 teams with 3 games max.

Why they can't bring in the group stage earlier, I don't know. Solves the 3 biggest issues for weaker counties, 4 games minimum, not hanging around for 5 or 6 weeks for maybe 1 qualifier game and more players will stick around.

This proposal seems to be aimed at the provincial winners getting a second chance so the top 3 or 4 teams will be able to lose a game and still get to an AI S/F.

K-9

StupidLikeAFox wrote: »

"This structure does nothing for the weaker counties"

What structure will?

If you are a weaker county you are still going to be a weaker county in any structure. Bridging the gap between strong and weak counties is a far more complex issue than tweaking the format of the championship

Well Clare or Tipp or Longford would still get their 4 or 5 games if you brought in the group system earlier in the Qualifiers, but so would Down, Antrim, Wexford, Leitrim, Louth etc.

More games gives them more incentive and losing 1 Qualifier game wouldn't mean exiting the Championship, they'd still have a shout.

Put the first 16 teams out in groups of 4 so they get 4 games minimum in the Summer. The fixtures can easily be arranged so weaker counties get plenty of games from the end of May to mid July and the top 2 teams in each group play the Semi Final losers at the end of July, same as now. No need for 3 or 4 week gaps after that either so the AI Final could still be brought forward, giving more time for club championships.
The actual Championship is too drawn out and there is no need for it, Tipp showed that, Roscommon vs. New York in the second last week of May an example, no need for it.

The 2 biggest problems are lack of games and the Championship often not taking off until July, Tipp beating Cork and Galway Mayo, we didn't even have shocks like that the last few years. If you'd 7 or 8 games minimum to look forward to every weekend it creates chances for more shocks, more talking points, more publicity and more excitement to attract new fans, less boredom basically.

Boom__Boom

keane2097 wrote: »

How is it an elephant in a room that the worst teams have the worst results?

This seems to be more of the loose logic about how league and championship feed into one another.

The teams in Division 4 are in Division 4 because they are crap, they are not all crap because they are in Division 4.

It's not the fact that the worst teams have the worst results, it's that these teams are becoming almost totally uncompetitive in the championship, which is bad news for the overall state of the championship and the game nationwide.

Go back a few years and you had the teams who were in Division 4 who were get a couple of results against Division 2 and Division 3 teams (and on occasion even the odd Division 1 team). Now you have a situation where they are not even getting the odd win against Division 2 and Division 3 teams and the margins of defeat are getting wider and wider when they play the top teams.

Long-term if you have a situation where the weakest counties continue to get weaker you will end up with a replica of the situation in hurling where you have a much smaller number of teams who are even able to compete and the competition becomes much more stale, routine and boring.

LeinsterDub

K-9 wrote: »

Ignores the weaker counties yet again!

Doesn't address the biggest issue this year and every year:

8 teams with only 2 games in the Summer,
Maybe another 8 teams with 3 games max.

Why they can't bring in the group stage earlier, I don't know. Solves the 3 biggest issues for weaker counties, 4 games minimum, not hanging around for 5 or 6 weeks for maybe 1 qualifier game and more players will stick around.

This proposal seems to be aimed at the provincial winners getting a second chance so the top 3 or 4 teams will be able to lose a game and still get to an AI S/F.

Because these teams are too weak they tried this before in hurling and it was abandoned as the games were boring and no one wanted to attend these games.

K-9

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Because these teams are too weak they tried this before in hurling and it was abandoned as the games were boring and no one wanted to attend these games.

But the Qualifiers work in football, who disagrees? Tipperary, Longford, Fermanagh, Clare, Limerick, all had runs in them from what would have been weaker counties in the not too distant past.

They also give stronger counties the back door, Derry, Mayo, Donegal, Tyrone, Meath etc. Best of both worlds.

Hurling doesn't bear comparison, football is much easier to break barriers, Dublin is the only one who really have broken into tier one, but it's a much smaller pool of counties so unfair to compare. Kerry this year is arguably just as big an achievement as Clare in football.

If 2 out of 4 teams get 4 games minimum it gives most weaker counties something to aim for every Summer. 24 out of 32 counties get a run in the Championship and playing football at the end of July. To give a soccer example, it means your N. Irelands, Icelands, Albanias have a real achievement to aim for and it's more attractive than trying to get promoted from Division 4 in Aughrim or Ruislip on a wet, windy Sunday in March!

Dirty Dingus McGee

threeball wrote: »

It's the answer to the question that nobody asked. Fiddling round the edges so as not to upset the flutes who run the provinces. Are those who vote at congress not given a mandate by their club and shouldn't they vote accordingly. It's a joke.

The provincial have to go. The league needs to be bigger and championship go back to straight knock out open draw. Play games every second week either league or championship and have club games the weeks in between. Squad players get a run, club players play games and the top teams play each other all season while the smaller teams get to progress at their own level.

This is a step along the way though.

I remember Padriac Duffy being interviewed on Setanta a few years ago and he said that the way the GAA it operates it's difficult to get change through.

He knows that it will be difficult to change anything and get rid of the provincial championships right now and it would be pointless proposing it (as much as a lot of people myself included would like to see it happen). However eventually it will happen and this is a step along the road.With this system winning a provincial final has no added benefit apart from the trophy and therefore it lessens the importance of winning the final.These new games will now become much bigger than the provincial finals will hopefully show people that provincial finals are not a necessity anymore.

Dirty Dingus McGee

K-9 wrote: »

Well Clare or Tipp or Longford would still get their 4 or 5 games if you brought in the group system earlier in the Qualifiers, but so would Down, Antrim, Wexford, Leitrim, Louth etc.

More games gives them more incentive and losing 1 Qualifier game wouldn't mean exiting the Championship, they'd still have a shout.

Put the first 16 teams out in groups of 4 so they get 4 games minimum in the Summer. The fixtures can easily be arranged so weaker counties get plenty of games from the end of May to mid July and the top 2 teams in each group play the Semi Final losers at the end of July, same as now. No need for 3 or 4 week gaps after that either so the AI Final could still be brought forward, giving more time for club championships.
The actual Championship is too drawn out and there is no need for it, Tipp showed that, Roscommon vs. New York in the second last week of May an example, no need for it.

The 2 biggest problems are lack of games and the Championship often not taking off until July, Tipp beating Cork and Galway Mayo, we didn't even have shocks like that the last few years. If you'd 7 or 8 games minimum to look forward to every weekend it creates chances for more shocks, more talking points, more publicity and more excitement to attract new fans, less boredom basically.

The championship should probably be run on a league basis with playoffs at the end and there league should be disbanded and we should only have one major competition, but that is too drastic a step and wouldn't have a hope of passing (unfortunately) at the moment.Duffy obviously feels there is a chance of this proposal being approved.

namloc1980

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

This is a step along the way though.

I remember Padriac Duffy being interviewed on Setanta a few years ago and he said that the way the GAA it operates it's difficult to get change through.

He knows that it will be difficult to change anything and get rid of the provincial championships right now and it would be pointless proposing it (as much as a lot of people myself included would like to see it happen). However eventually it will happen and this is a step along the road.With this system winning a provincial final has no added benefit apart from the trophy and therefore it lessens the importance of winning the final.These new games will now become much bigger than the provincial finals will hopefully show people that provincial finals are not a necessity anymore.

And also straight into the Quarter Final group stage.

Realistically the provincials aren't going anywhere. The provincial councils hold a lot of sway and won't give up their provincial championships. I also don't think these proposals will even pass Congress. Needing a two thirds majority is a big ask and I can see the Ulster counties and "weaker" teams going against it. It will take some serious lobbying and certain counties getting grant funding to get this over the line.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

Bass Reeves

LeinsterDub wrote: »

How does this help clubs? More games isn't what clubs need

Jayop wrote: »

If there's no replays then for many counties there will be fewer games. Also without replays the calender will be set early and the clubs can plan accordingly. There's no reasons County players shouldn't play for their clubs if it's two weeks till the next County game.

The impact on club games will be a huge issue. As it is county team managers are reluctant to release players it has now got to the stage that even minor players are not released and not allowed to play the weaker code in there county. If we take it that July is taken up by qualifiers. What way will the group stages work will they be ran off over three consecutive weekends unlikly. Is the proposal is to run off hurling semi's on weekend's in between this could involve one hurling have a four week gap and one a two wek gap to final. More than likely hurling semi's would be ran on one weekend.

There is no way that a county manager will allow players to be involved in matches in the weekend in between. Players will be injured or have twinges so that county managers do not have to release them. Even if they do release them these players will be looking after themselves so as not to fet injured. Saw it lately at an underage minor match three county mnorrs players involved going through the motions.

deadybai wrote: »

Hurling once again being fcuked over. Why should the hurling championship be finished before the football semis begin? Completely makes it look like the secondary sport.

Any Kilkenny fan who has the next 5 first Sunday's in September booked off is screwed :pac:

Hurling is in dire need of a makeover and it would have less impact at club level. No need to get rid of Munster and Lenister championships. Two groups of 5 or 6 one based on Munster championship and one based in Lenister championship. Round of games played ever second weekend. Then top two pay off for Munster or Lenister championship.

After that top team in Lenister pay runner up in Munster and visa versa. Every team gauranteed 4-5 games but championship played off over 7-8 wekends from Mid May to late August. Impact at club level not as pronounced. If Club championship is based on 5-6 team format most county's could play 2-3 rounds before Mid May only 4 counties involved in play offs would be be involved two of the last three rounds.

One other regress action I saw in the proposal is to use goals scored as a an ajuditator with team on same points. I be more interested in seeing points scored as an ajudicator

LeinsterDub

K-9 wrote: »

But the Qualifiers work in football, who disagrees?

I meant the pool stages that were attempted several years ago in hurling didn't work as their were too many blow outs and dead rubber games. If you include all the weaker counties the same thing will happen in football

threeball

namloc1980 wrote: »

And also straight into the Quarter Final group stage.

Realistically the provincials aren't going anywhere. The provincial councils hold a lot of sway and won't give up their provincial championships. I also don't think these proposals will even pass Congress. Needing a two thirds majority is a big ask and I can see the Ulster counties and "weaker" teams going against it. It will take some serious lobbying and certain counties getting grant funding to get this over the line.

That's the reality. This proposal doesn't have a hope as the Ulster teams hate it already so 66% is impossible. Why doesn't Duffy show some leadership and put together a list of 5 proposals. Ask each club to have a meeting and debate where any member that wants can vote as to what system they would like to see. The chairman of the club gets mandated to vote at a special congress and the proposal with the most votes becomes the new format. Same would happen in hurling clubs.
If the GAA is truly democratic then even the smallest members voice will be heard.

Fianna Fowl

Jayop wrote: »

Actually with Kerry always being in the semi final they'd still get to round 3 of the qualifiers. I think the seeding in the munster would have to go for this to really work and it's not for central council to tell. Munster how to run its championship.

If Kerry loose Munster semi final they would enter at round 2 of qualifiers

ALL-IRELAND QUALIFER SERIES
Round 1 Sixteen teams that do not qualify for provincial semi-finals
Round 2 Eight round 1 winners play eight defeated provincial semi-finalists
Round 3 Eight round 2 winners play each other on an open-draw basis
Round 4 Four round 3 winners play four provincial runners-up

K-9

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

The championship should probably be run on a league basis with playoffs at the end and there league should be disbanded and we should only have one major competition, but that is too drastic a step and wouldn't have a hope of passing (unfortunately) at the moment.Duffy obviously feels there is a chance of this proposal being approved.

Yeah, Duffy brought a pretty tame proposal about bringing forward the AI football final a week or 2 and it was defeated as far as I know. Do we still have league S/F's for next year? Duffy mentioned it yesterday so I assume so, no need for them at all.

On the club issue, compacting the inter county schedule has to help for me. Inter county players don't want to be hanging around for 3 or 4 weeks between games either from interviews I've listened to, 2 weeks seems fair for amateur players. There's no need to be starting provincial championships in May so that gives a month there for clubs, it becomes then about making sure counties run say 2 rounds of the Championship minimum in every county then.

Problem would be we'd have a very busy schedule in June to mid July if we'd a early qualifier group stage, but if it was fixed every year at least club players would have certainty about a 6 week period every Summer and work around it.

Bass Reeves

threeball wrote: »

That's the reality. This proposal doesn't have a hope as the Ulster teams hate it already so 66% is impossible. Why doesn't Duffy show some leadership and put together a list of 5 proposals. Ask each club to have a meeting and debate where any member that wants can vote as to what system they would like to see. The chairman of the club gets mandated to vote at a special congress and the proposal with the most votes becomes the new format. Same would happen in hurling clubs.
If the GAA is truly democratic then even the smallest members voice will be heard.

What you are proposing is that no matter what clubs feel there would have to be a new format. From talking to a few fellow GAA people none of us are in favor of the proposed new structure's. Most consider it a money grab by the higher echlons. Most feel it will be regressive for clubs games with 8 counties involved in a round robin it would mean that no county championship games could be played in theses counties form early July until September.

keane2097

Do people think the majority actually want to do away with the provincial competitions?

I always see keeping them being blamed on dinosaurs but I doubt most people would jettison them tbh.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

K-9

LeinsterDub wrote: »

I meant the pool stages that were attempted several years ago in hurling didn't work as their were too many blow outs and dead rubber games. If you include all the weaker counties the same thing will happen in football

Yeah, but again hurling suffers different problems to football, but yes, there has to be incentive and proper competition to encourage counties to take it seriously.

Hurling has stronger differences in the tiers, it's very difficult for a Laois or Kerry to get into tier 1 unlike Dublin because of numbers basically. But if they can move up a level and give an Offaly or Wexford a real go, well that's a target for them.

Football, well Clare, Tipp, Longford and Fermanagh are examples of Division 3 and 4 teams making a real go of it. They'll probably never become top 3 or 4 teams but they don't need to be, they aren't Division 4 fodder anymore and are capable of runs in the Qualifiers every year. It becomes about giving them 4 games minimum every Summer to build on progression whereas now, Fermanagh only got 3 games this Summer to build on last year because of a tough draw. Thomas Corrigan was very passionate and pissed off about the structure in the RTE game on podcast this week. All that effort for 3 bloody games! He didn't mention it but I read he works in Dublin and puts in serious time and effort for little competition this year.

With football compared to hurling, we know counties from the bottom 7 or 8 can become top 10 counties, the above counties have shown it. We also know a Donegal or Monaghan can move to the top with organisation and will, talent helps too and that's often cyclical but structures and some success will all help getting to a higher level.

Maybe Wicklow or Carlow will never get organised properly but that's their problem, the other counties should be given the chance to show what they can do.
If 2 out of 4 teams in an early qualifier group stage could go through, that gives everybody a go at it. Take the first 16 teams out of the Championship and put them in groups like Derry, Louth, Clare and Sligo, there's at least 1 place really up for grabs out of those 2 going through there. Everybody gets 4 games minimum so win, win for me.

The GPA Championship League structure wouldn't work for me, it would lead to your concern, too many dead rubber games. Putting Dublin in a group with Leitrim is pointless for me.

But anyway, back to this proposal, I'm not actually sure what it is addressing, other than giving the provincial winners more games and a back door as they can now afford to lose a game in this structure.

The other thing is, take Tipp, they'd 3 or 4 weekends in a row, they'd have maybe 6 games in 6 weeks in this while Leitrim still have 2.

That's the biggest problem and this proposal just makes it worse when I think about it.

keane2097

I said it on some other thread, but I genuinely find it surprising that not everyone agrees that Sean Kelly's structure (repeated by Jim McGuinness) is close to perfect.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/kelly-tables-football-revamp-202684.html
http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/jim-mcguinness-how-i-would-reinvigorate-football-championship-1.2241993

BonnieSituation

They weren't though. And McGuinness' one still has Provincial Championships being part of the qualification process for the All-Ireland. Brutal.

K-9

keane2097 wrote: »

I said it on some other thread, but I genuinely find it surprising that not everyone agrees that Sean Kelly's structure (repeated by Jim McGuinness) is close to perfect.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/kelly-tables-football-revamp-202684.html
http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/jim-mcguinness-how-i-would-reinvigorate-football-championship-1.2241993

Logically they make sense but when did that matter?

Seriously, the bottom 5 or 6 counties don't want to be in something they've no hope of winning plus say, a Tipp or Fermanagh want to be in the actual proper AI competition. Whether that is right or not is irrelevant really if so many counties do want to compete in the actual AI competition.

I think we have to accept the GAA is extremely slow moving (it's too democratic!) so work with what we have. Too many counties want the provincials and existing AI to do away with it, but we know the Qualifiers work, we just need more games in them.

The problem here in these proposals is they are aimed at the top 5 or 6 teams in the Championship really, they've gone top down rather than bottom up. Maybe you can work with them and in a couple of years say, well this worked out ok so we'll bring groups in at an earlier stage now.

threeball

Bass Reeves wrote: »

What you are proposing is that no matter what clubs feel there would have to be a new format. From talking to a few fellow GAA people none of us are in favor of the proposed new structure's. Most consider it a money grab by the higher echlons. Most feel it will be regressive for clubs games with 8 counties involved in a round robin it would mean that no county championship games could be played in theses counties form early July until September.

Not what I proposed at all. For example

Option 1: League to 3 divisions, Championship straight knock out
Option 2: Champions league type format
Option 3: .....
Option 4: .....
Option 5: Leave it alone, its fine as is

Everyone gets a say and we get something at least close to a majority consensus.

Mal-Adjusted

BonnieSituation wrote: »

There's 12 "Liam McCarthy teams" add in the next 4 qand just have a proper knockout already. No second chances just great "everything on the line knock-out" hurling.

Anyway I digress.

Sorry for being a bit pedantic but there's actually 14 McCarthy teams

Dirty Dingus McGee

A whole load of managers have come out against the proposals now.Self interest may well win the day again and a move in the right direction might be stifled because it isn't 100% perfect.

BonnieSituation

Mal-Adjusted wrote: »

Sorry for being a bit pedantic but there's actually 14 McCarthy teams

Sure Kerry and Antrim loike...

All the way up there; all the way down there...

harpsman

Sorry guys did it say when the qf groups would commence? I presume it would have to be early july. So I suppose it might make the provincial championships a bit less drawn out but overall for me it smacks of "we cant fix the main problem so we'll mess around with something that isn't really a problem" ie the quarter finals. Theres not really anything wrong with having knockout qf, sf, and final. Tomorrows double header is an absolutely mouthwatering line up for football fans, particularly if Donegal can reproduce their best form and the Tipp win last week was brilliant.

This proposal does nothing to address the main problem with the football structure-

1) teams play about 10 games in Jan,Feb,Mar and then play 2 or 3 over the next 4 months weeks throughout high Summer, and

2) the provincial championships are jaded, unbalanced and unfair- I think last year Donegal had played Tyrone, Armagh and Derry before Galway played a game in the championship. And not to pick on Galway but 2 years ago Galway got to the qf by beating Sligo and Tipp(doesn't sound as easy now I know); and Cork got there by beating Tipp and Sligo. (Which brings me to another bugbear of mine- the silly pre-ordained A and B qualifier system.)Also how exciting is it when the All-Ireland championship starts with New York- Roscommon, followed by Antrim-Fermanagh and Louth-Wicklow. Talk about marketing your product.

So all in all this seems to be a knee jerk reaction to Kerry meeting Clare in the qf this year. Suppose this gives you more games between top 8 teams but it's really shifting the deck chairs on the titanic.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

keane2097

Agree with that. Tipperary have shown recently that there's no voodoo needed in the quest to not be useless, even in a county with the deck completely stacked against you. You just need a simple plan and a lot of hard work and patience.

Tbh there are several counties you could name that should be mortified with their own standards.

The Lost Sheep

keane2097 wrote: »

Agree with that. Tipperary have shown recently that there's no voodoo needed in the quest to not be useless, even in a county with the deck completely stacked against you. You just need a simple plan and a lot of hard work and patience.

Tbh there are several counties you could name that should be mortified with their own standards.

But in Tipps case the deck to a great extent hasn't at all been completely stacked against football. In Clonmel, Football is totally dominant and its the same in a lot of South Tipp....

keane2097

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

But in Tipps case the deck to a great extent hasn't at all been completely stacked against football. In Clonmel, Football is totally dominant and its the same in a lot of South Tipp....

In many if not most other counties football is totally dominant everywhere

Bass Reeves

keane2097 wrote: »

Agree with that. Tipperary have shown recently that there's no voodoo needed in the quest to not be useless, even in a county with the deck completely stacked against you. You just need a simple plan and a lot of hard work and patience.

Tbh there are several counties you could name that should be mortified with their own standards.

You have to question the standards in certain traditional football counties, Cork Kildare, Offally, Meath, Galway, Roscommon, Down, etc. However it is the same in hurling, Cork again, Offally, Wexford and you look at Limerick who consider themselves a top tier county above Waterford and Clare yet have not put together a successful championship run in 10 years. For all the the cribbing about Clare and Galway they are producing hurlers but the attitude seems to be an issue.

I think a lot of this is in the mollycodding of county teams and the way team managers at county level(and at club level) do not want players playing the other code. Recently a friend was saying that at his club the intermediate team manager was cribbing over a a minor fixture that was 6 days before a championship. Now FFS if you consider minor game's an irritant where will the next generation come from.