Unsure as to whether I should put my dog down

blacklilly

Hi All,

So I've been faced with a decision as to whether to put my 14 year old springer down. She has faced a multitude of health problems in the last 5 years, including 2 bouts of cancer, vestibular disease, she is deaf but has some sight left, she is also fully incontinent (she is an outdoors dog).

She does not seem to be in any pain or discomfort whatsoever, however she does sleep a lot (I've been advised that this is a possible sign of the cancer having returned). My fear is that some day I'll wake up and she may be in a lot of pain for some reason or the fear of her being knocked over at our house due to her deafness and failing eye sight.

If she was in pain I wouldn't give this a second thought, I would have her put to sleep but the thought of putting her to sleep at this point is killing me, like most pet owners I just absolutely love and adore her.

The rational side of me says she's had 14 very good years and better to do it now than wait until she is in pain but then the thought of putting in the needle in while she's wagging her tail makes me so upset.

Has anyone been in a similar situation and what did you do?

Raminahobbin

I was faced with a similar decision today 6 months ago, except I knew her cancer had returned. She didn't appear pain or anything though. I chose to let her go, before she experienced anything horrible, and I'm still so so glad of that. It definitely makes the grief a little easier to cope with, because I know she went peacefully (at home- the vet came out to the house).

I do believe it's better to let them go on a high, rather than trying to squeeze every last day out of them.

See if you can find out if the cancer has definitely returned before you make any decisions. At the end of the day, every case is different, but I can tell you that for me it's been a huge source of comfort knowing she went without experiencing a massive decline and lots of pain.

kathleen37

My concern would be her double incontinence and the fact she's outside and the risk of getting knocked over.

Is she able to keep herself clean?

Bunnyslippers

If it were my dog I'd pts. As said above its far better to finish when they are happy than wait until they are sick or in pain, you're only prolonging the enevitable. Plus with winter just round the corner and her being an outside dog it's not fair, it would be like keeping your granny outside - they just can't keep warm anymore. And if the cancer had returned she will be feeling pretty awful.
I had to do this with one of my ridgebacks last year, he had renal failure and was only 10, but was still fine in himself, just his muscles were wasting away and he could not stop peeing and drinking, and kept falling over, he still wagged his tail, went for short walks and was eating a bit but his appetite dropped in the last week so we called it a day, I bred him as well and had only lost his mother to a heart attack a few months before, we were so upset but it was the right thing to do, it doesn't benefit the dog to keep them going.

Ms Doubtfire1

That is up to you.It comes down to quality of life.Sleeping a lot could also simply be her age.
A remark aside:

My fear is that some day I'll wake up and she may be in a lot of pain for some reason or the fear of her being knocked over at our house due to her deafness and failing eye sight - Bring her inside into a room you can keep clean easy
Furthermore-she has fought and conquered everything this world has thrown at her, she is painfree. No, I would NOT put her to sleep. Not at this point in time. She deserves whatever time she has left.

retro:electro

Bring her inside into a back room and lay paper down on the floor and set up a cosy bed for her. It's cruel to leave the poor little thing outside in such circumstances.

blacklilly

anna080 wrote: »

Bring her inside into a back room and lay paper down on the floor and set up a cosy bed for her. It's cruel to leave the poor little thing outside in such circumstances.

I do not appreciate you saying that it is cruel to leave her outside, are you trying to make me feel bad?

She is outside during the day and locked up in a cozy shed at night with my other dog.

Without going into too graphic a detail, she is utterly incontinent, urine and faeces. I'm not sure what kind of room within a house would be suitable for such a situation irrespective of how much paper you can put down.

We have discussed her prognosis at length with our vet and are taking on board their advices. We run a large farm, so are on personal terms with our vet, he has treated her through her bouts of cancer and vestibular disease. The reason I've asked the question I have is that in the past when we have put down any animal (dogs, horses etc) it has always been in situations where it is deemed an emergency i.e there has been an accident and the animal is in great pain. I have never faced a situation of putting down one of my animals that is not in pain or distressed.

However after taking the advises and experience other posers have taken the time to give, I feel the best option for my dog is to put her to sleep and I will do so with a very heavy heart.

Thanks for all your advices, sad to see that there is always one poster who will post before thinking. Maybe I'm a little sensitive due to the circumstances but to have someone suggest I am being cruel to a dog I adore and have had for 14 years hurts a little.

sillysmiles

I think the important thing is that you are there with her and especially as you can get the vet to come to the yard to do it. There is never a right time but before she is in pain is better than her being in pain. Good luck

Ms Doubtfire1

blacklilly wrote: »

I do not appreciate you saying that it is cruel to leave her outside, are you trying to make me feel bad?

She is outside during the day and locked up in a cozy shed at night with my other dog.

Without going into too graphic a detail, she is utterly incontinent, urine and faeces. I'm not sure what kind of room within a house would be suitable for such a situation irrespective of how much paper you can put down.

We have discussed her prognosis at length with our vet and are taking on board their advices. We run a large farm, so are on personal terms with our vet, he has treated her through her bouts of cancer and vestibular disease. The reason I've asked the question I have is that in the past when we have put down any animal (dogs, horses etc) it has always been in situations where it is deemed an emergency i.e there has been an accident and the animal is in great pain. I have never faced a situation of putting down one of my animals that is not in pain or distressed.

However after taking the advises and experience other posers have taken the time to give, I feel the best option for my dog is to put her to sleep and I will do so with a very heavy heart.

Thanks for all your advices, sad to see that there is always one poster who will post before thinking. Maybe I'm a little sensitive due to the circumstances but to have someone suggest I am being cruel to a dog I adore and have had for 14 years hurts a little.

Whilst I am not happy with your decision, i certainly would not make it at this time, I am respecting it and I wish you strength and courage in this very difficult time.:(

BetsyEllen

OP, this is the way I look at these things.

Animals are very lucky that humans can make the decision to put them to sleep before they reach a stage of pain. If only humans had that option for themselves! The suffering and heartbreak that could be avoided, just imagine.

2 of my Grandparents died slow, lingering deaths that went on for a very long time and caused unbearable pain and sadness for the family.
They passed away, frail and a shadow of their former selves in hospital beds. They would have been horrified to see what they had become.

If they'd had the option of slipping away peacefully in the comfort of their own home before the pain set in, surrounded by loved ones and with their dignity intact, would they have chosen that option? Of course they would. As would you and I.

So I think that however hard it is, the kindest thing is to put your dog to sleep.
Maybe you could wait another week or so and make sure you spend the next fortnight showering her with even more cuddles, kisses etc than you normally do. Buy her a new toy, treat her to her favourite food, maybe take her out for a walk to the beach or whatever she likes to do.
Make her last few days extra, super happy - take some lovely pictures of her to cherish and then let her go.

I think it is the kindest way in the long run.

Ms Doubtfire1

BetsyEllen wrote: »

OP, this is the way I look at these things.


So I think that however hard it is, the kindest thing is to put your dog to sleep.
Maybe you could wait another week or so and make sure you spend the next fortnight showering her with even more cuddles, kisses etc than you normally do. Buy her a new toy, treat her to her favourite food, maybe take her out for a walk to the beach or whatever she likes to do.
Make her last few days extra, super happy - take some lovely pictures of her to cherish and then let her go.

I think it is the kindest way in the long run.

That is a very lovely thought.

Gael23

blacklilly wrote: »

I do not appreciate you saying that it is cruel to leave her outside, are you trying to make me feel bad?

I dont agree with keeping Dogs outside at the best of times, I think if you have a dog they should be part of your family, and that includes having access to your home. But thats beside the point.

The answer to your question is a difficult one. Its clear to me she's not suffering unacceptably in which case the decision would be an easy one. If it wasn't for the incontinence I would say absolutely no. I think you know you own dog and if you feel her quality of life has deteriorated then you know what to do.

DBB

Another thing to consider besides pain and discomfort is the dog's dignity... This may sound silly, but I'm pretty sure that double incontinence is a real slap in the face of dignity, and I think old dogs become genuinely stressed when they're soiling themselves. It can't be pleasant.
Didn't somebody post a link a few months ago to a sort of step-by-step guide to help an owner determine when us the right time to let an old dog go? I'll try to find it. I think it's a very useful way to gauge when to make that call.

VonVix

DBB wrote: »

Didn't somebody post a link a few months ago to a sort of step-by-step guide to help an owner determine when us the right time to let an old dog go? I'll try to find it. I think it's a very useful way to gauge when to make that call.

Is that the quality of life checklist you're thinking of?

DBB

VonVix wrote: »

Is that the quality of life checklist you're thinking of?

Yes... Not the HHHHMM one... But something similar and itching easier to give a yes or no answer to

Ms Doubtfire1

http://www.allpetsmacomb.com/qualityoflife.html

DBB

Ms Doubtfire1 wrote: »

http://www.allpetsmacomb.com/qualityoflife.html

^ That's not the one I'm thinking of either, but it's not bad!

sillysmiles

blacklilly wrote: »

We have discussed her prognosis at length with our vet and are taking on board their advices. We run a large farm, so are on personal terms with our vet, he has treated her through her bouts of cancer and vestibular disease.

For the people saying to bring the dog in, at this stage of her life, if she has always lived outside then being inside and incontinent is going to be really stressful for her if she's not used to being inside.

Personally I would generally suggest that your dog should be inside with you, but I think farm dogs are different to the extent that they are with their person outside for a lot of the day, as opposed to someone like me, who doesn't spend a lot of time outside expect gardening or walking the dog.

Smondie

Ah sad situtation, but by the sounds of things it would be kinder to pts. A hard thing to do but sometimes for the best. 14 good years op.

spurious

Every situation is different of course, but the only pet-related regret I have is for the first dog I owned independently of my family. I had him for 18 years and old Ratty was a trooper. My only regret is that I did not bring him to the vet when I first decided to. Instead, i thought of all sorts of excuses not to. He wasn't in pain, but he had great difficulty with the toilet, cleaning himself, the joy (for want of a better word) had gone out of him. I let him go on another six weeks until his back legs started to go from beneath him and I will never forgive myself for that.

It's a terrible decision to make, but the animal's comfort is the most important thing.

retro:electro

I feel for you op I do. But the best thing to do is give her some dignity and put her out of her misery. You may not feel that she is in misery, but in all actuality she really is. You feel that bringing her while she still has a wag to the tail would be cruel, but it would be even crueler to let her illness progress and put her through unnecessary pain. My dog became incontinent towards the end as well, and he didn't have the muscle strength to push out his number 2 so he would try his best and I would have to pull it out for him. Tmi I know, but my point is I wish I never even let him get to that stage, it was awful and unfair. You will miss her whenever it happens, but the reality is she is not going to get any better, and it's up to you to decide whether you want to let this persist or end it now.

Dubl07

Dogs can be remarkably stoic around pain.

The very fact that she's eliminating inside her quarters would give me pause about discounting pain issues particularly at night when temperatures are lower in an outbuilding. She may be stiff or sore in the night, especially since she's had cancer and may have scarring and/or abdominal adhesions. Since she's an outside dog your presence will probably be a bigger deal than for a house dog so she may be using extra energy when you're around that she just doesn't have to spare. Her enthusiasm to spend time with you may mask a lot.

It's good that you have her interests at heart. I'd let her go and be thankful that you can speed her on her way out of distress and pain.

porsche boy

It's a sad situation to say the least. My first dog, Ebony I had since I was 6 or 7. All through those awkward teenage years he was my comfort and my friend. When he started getting sick I argued with my dad wanting him to be there for me & all that. With complete blindness, incontinence he was a mess but I stood firm and would not allow anything to happen to him. So one day I came home and he was gone. Dad did the right thing, I see that now. It was my selfishness that I was more concerned with. If I was blind, incontinent, unable to communicate my aches and pains and generally just surviving I would hope for compassion.
Let him go OP.

aonb

I was in a similar situation with two 17 year old dogs.
The collie was in pretty bad shape for months, but he was eating, drinking, deteriorating eyesight, and pretty deaf. His tail never stopped wagging. He would limp along for a little walk every day. He deteriorated SUDDENLY, and it was horrible, strokes/seizures. He was terrified. We had to manhandle the poor lovely old gentlest of dogs into the car, and have him put to sleep, in horrible circumstances.
The terrier had had several years of ill health, was up/down, but in great form. He was my soul-dog. He had a bit of dementia coming on, was incontinent (urine) on/off, suffered from bloat, but then kidney/liver cancer. We knew we were on borrowed time. He kept bouncing back. Was happy and eating/drinking. Then on a monday a.m we got up, and he was stuck in his bed. He didnt eat/drink. We though he would bounce back as usual. I couldnt make the decision, Ive never felt about a dog like I did this boy. Finally on wednesday a.m, we called the vet to come out to put him to sleep. I still feel so bad, that we made him suffer for two whole days before doing the right thing.

So, what Im saying to you OP is, that if your dog is incontinent, deaf, eyesight failing, then one day very soon, she could go downhill fast. If you wait til that day, but will bring her to the vet very quickly, it wont be too horrible. As long as you go very quickly. The thing is, you and only you can decide if you want to wait til that day. The incontinence would bother me too - very distressing for people to see their beloved dog like this. The road safety would also bother me very much. Good luck to you, its a horrible time, but as long as you do whats right for your beloved pet, thats all that matters.

adkman

Either way it is so difficult. Be ready for a crying bout, but as all things it will pass and get better and better. I feel bad for you.

blacklilly

aonb wrote: »

I was in a similar situation with two 17 year old dogs.
The collie was in pretty bad shape for months, but he was eating, drinking, deteriorating eyesight, and pretty deaf. His tail never stopped wagging. He would limp along for a little walk every day. He deteriorated SUDDENLY, and it was horrible, strokes/seizures. He was terrified. We had to manhandle the poor lovely old gentlest of dogs into the car, and have him put to sleep, in horrible circumstances..

This really struck a cord with me, the thoughts of having to see her like this and manhandle her etc would absolutely kill me, I can only imagine how difficult that was for you.

I really appreciate all of your replies and advices, it really settles my mind that I am doing the right thing. Thank you

cocker5

blacklilly wrote: »

This really struck a cord with me, the thoughts of having to see her like this and manhandle her etc would absolutely kill me, I can only imagine how difficult that was for you.

I really appreciate all of your replies and advices, it really settles my mind that I am doing the right thing. Thank you

Just on this would you not consider the vet calling to your home and doing it there?

My guy HATES the vet - he is terrified.. even the smell upsets him....when his time comes i wont be putting him through that trauma of the vets ill be paying for a home visit for him to pass away in his much loved bed with me holding him (god this really pains me to type this).

God luck OP i don't envy you at all.. stay strong XXX

intheclouds

Its a very difficult decision and I agree with posters who say to enjoy a last period of time with your dog, and then let her go.

For me the double incontinence tells me its time. That coupled with the other health issues leads me to think that the dog is probably just hanging on without much life quality.

We keep our pets alive too long for us, not for them. To give the mercy of a peaceful passing is a kind act.

If you could get the vet to come to the house that would be better again.

Ms Doubtfire1

agree 100%. I deal with loss of my rescue's regularly but euthanasia always happens at home, in their own comfortable environments...strangely enough the other cats inside at such time seem to have cop on whats going on and are very quiet and even respectful.:(

Bunnyslippers

I always have mine pts at home too as they hate the vets, it's much calmer for them!:(

nala2012

cocker5 wrote: »

My guy HATES the vet - he is terrified.. even the smell upsets him....when his time comes i wont be putting him through that trauma of the vets ill be paying for a home visit for him to pass away in his much loved bed with me holding him (god this really pains me to type this).

God luck OP i don't envy you at all.. stay strong XXX

I always thought we'd have Nelson put to sleep at home but vet said if your dog is a guard dog they would find it very stressful someone coming into their home when they are on their last legs. I never thought of it till he mentioned it.

imokyrok

Bunnyslippers wrote: »

I always have mine pts at home too as they hate the vets, it's much calmer for them!:(

Will Irish vets do this and does it cost much more? My own dog is coming close to the end. His cancer is bad with weeping fissures but he is still eating well, his eyes are bright and he can manage his walk although with less energy than before so I don't think he is in pain yet. But as soon as that happens I want to do what's right for him.

Advice I've read points out that dogs live purely in the moment so while a very ill human might be contents to enough to suffer to give them more time to spend time with their family and their memories for a dog it is only what is happening in the here and now that is real for them. I'm trying to save for the euthanasia and cremation fee which is €160 to €180.

Jimmy Bottlehead

Blacklilly I'm so sorry to hear this

As you've already heard though, you're doing your dog the kindest service you and most love that an owner can by helping him avoid misery and a poor quality of life.

Well done for giving him an amazing and loved life and for keeping it up right until the end.

blacklilly

So the decision was made to put my beloved Sally to sleep earlier today. It was more peaceful than I expected but obviously still so upsetting.

I think you'll always second guess whether you did the right thing and ultimately its something that no one can ever confirm for you. Feels a little surreal at the moment.

Anyway, thanks again for all your advices and telling me your experiences, it really helped a lot.

muddypaws

I'm so sorry for your loss OP. Take care of yourself

Raminahobbin

So sorry for your loss, Blacklilly. At least your pup went peacefully and with loved ones nearby- that's a luxury so few dogs get. Be proud that you were able to do this final act of kindness for your dog.

Mind yourself xx

frillyleaf

Hi OP. I have just read your thread tonight and I think you did the right thing. Your dog may have appeared well to you but she could have been masking pain
and if she was old and unable to control basic bodily functions she would likely deteriorate quite suddenly.

I don't agree with comment saying its cruel that you kept her outside as I know plenty of dogs that prefer to be outside particularly dogs on farms. I'm sure you gave her a great life.

I found from my own experience and from family and friends who have pets, that once an animal has been very sick a few times and very old they can have deteriorate quickly and experience seizures / strokes which can be very distressing for both animal and owner.

We have had pets over the years that were kept alive far longer than they should have and looking back it was selfish and unfair of us to do that ( I would have been teenager at the time ).

I think it's better an animal pass peacefully and not in pain as opposed to letting it drag out until happens that requires an emergency call out or visit to the vets. I think you did the right thing and although it was a difficult decision it was the kindest thing to do and I'm sure the vet agreed with you. Take care OP x

LCD

For what its worth I think you made the right decision. It was a tough one to make and I admire you for doing the right thing by your dog.

Many people have told me that they waited too long to have their beloved pet PTS & in the end their pet had to suffer for a day or two.

Gael23

imokyrok wrote: »

.
Advice I've read points out that dogs live purely in the moment so while a very ill human might be contents to enough to suffer to give them more time to spend time with their family and their memories for a dog it is only what is happening in the here and now that is real for them. I'm trying to save for the euthanasia and cremation fee which is €160 to €180.

I think that figure is about right but to be honest everything happened so fast for us I dont really know for sure. We just paid for his treatment and the cremation all in one bill.
I think you really do know your own dog and you know when its time. I wont forget that morning for a long time. He was declining anyway so he would have needed to spend a night in the vets from time to time. But I knew in myself that this time was different, I knew that because he was mine and he was around me every day. Sure enough I was right and 18 months later the moment the vet told us there was nothing he could do seems like yesterday. He died naturally a few hours after while we were digesting it all and i'll always be thankful for not having to make that decision even though people do it out of compassion.

I said a few days ago that I dont agree with dogs being kept outside and this isn't really the place to discuss it. But he did go out at night until he got old. Then he came in and we had 3 more really good years with him..

blacklilly

Gael23 wrote: »

I think that figure is about right but to be honest everything happened so fast for us I dont really know for sure. We just paid for his treatment and the cremation all in one bill.
I think you really do know your own dog and you know when its time. I wont forget that morning for a long time. He was declining anyway so he would have needed to spend a night in the vets from time to time. But I knew in myself that this time was different, I knew that because he was mine and he was around me every day. Sure enough I was right and 18 months later the moment the vet told us there was nothing he could do seems like yesterday. He died naturally a few hours after while we were digesting it all and i'll always be thankful for not having to make that decision even though people do it out of compassion.

I said a few days ago that I dont agree with dogs being kept outside and this isn't really the place to discuss it. But he did go out at night until he got old. Then he came in and we had 3 more really good years with him..

Gael unless the breed of dog you have is a very delicate breed there is no reason why they cannot be outdoors and live long and happy lives. Dogs, like all animals are outdoor creatures and cope perfectly fine being outdoors. Some would think it cruel for dogs to be kept inside and only brought out for occasional walks.
There is also a difference with a dog being kept out during the day and locked up somewhere cozy at night, as opposed to being out during very cold nights etc but ultimately it is only humans who have made indoor dogs.