Treating people with mental health issues

RDM_83 again

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

So you think in excess of 150 such detentions a month is rare

For the size of the population though isn't it rare? I mean the suicide rate is between 5 and 20% per 100,000 when you look at different broad demographic groups, and thats successful suicides that have been officially classed as suicides, the involuntary admissions rate is 50 per 100,000.
Somebody "successfully" only commits suicide once a person can bounce in and out of involuntary admission multiple times.

Basically if 150+ detentions a month isn't rare then the reasons behind those detentions (risk to themselves or others) aren't rare either particularly if you narrow it down into different groups and particularly if you consider the fact that completed suicide is an end point.

RDM_83 again

K-9 wrote: »

Not shutting up about it has been shown to help. Might annoy a few like yourself but that doesn't really matter if it helps people who need it.

At the same time, greater awareness of suicide appears to be linked to higher rates of suicide so its not a simple fact that greater openness is automatically beneficial to society.

BaaLamb

RDM_83 again wrote: »

For the size of the population though isn't it rare? I mean the suicide rate is between 5 and 20% per 100,000 when you look at different broad demographic groups, and thats successful suicides that have been officially classed as suicides, the involuntary admissions rate is 50 per 100,000.
Somebody "successfully" only commits suicide once a person can bounce in and out of involuntary admission multiple times.

Basically if 150+ detentions a month isn't rare then the reasons behind those detentions (risk to themselves or others) aren't rare either particularly if you narrow it down into different groups and particularly if you consider the fact that completed suicide is an end point.

Does everyone who commits suicide have a mental illness? Also many people are admitted for reasons other than being suicidal so those 150 detentions could be for a host of reasons.

K-9

RDM_83 again wrote: »

At the same time, greater awareness of suicide appears to be linked to higher rates of suicide so its not a simple fact that greater openness is automatically beneficial to society.

Aye, but I suppose the thinking is mental illness usually (not always) comes before suicide, so if you can catch it earlier by openly talking about it...

There's lots of positive stories now about people recovering or coping well and that has been shown to work. If it annoys a few people that the stories aren't aimed at anyway, who cares really? Just turn the page or listen to something else.

I'm not sure about greater awareness leading to more suicides. Copycat suicides can happen, that would be when it occurs in clusters but in the majority of cases?

Not something I've come across so if you've a link it would be appreciated.

K-9

Sorry, I suppose my point would be publicity is different from awareness or positive stories.

talkto

mohawk wrote: »

I think you will find having mental health issues does not equal danger to society. There are thousands living with Mental Health Issues in this country and I think you should think carefully before posting on this kind of topic.
Very few people with Mental Health issues are a danger to others so you can rest easy.

That's clearly not what the OP was suggesting and I don't for one second believe that you didn't realise that, but your thanks-whoring post was a success, congratulations.

Getting Likes by making a post defending people with mental health issues is like shooting fish in a barrel, (whether it's actually relevant to the discussion or not.)

mickstupp

I get very angry when I see news items about killings or attacks, and right at the top, sometimes in the headline, is something along the lines of 'killer had depression'. Saw one last week. It should start with 'killer was a dickhead'. When the media focuses on things like this it puts wonky ideas into the heads of all the wikipedia psychologists out there (there are so f***ing many of you).

Reminds me, perhaps completely wrongly, of the story of that girl who was raped and murdered a few weeks ago, the news story starting off with something like 'girl drank [x] number of jagerbombs (?) on the night she was raped and murdered'. Concentrating on the wrong bloody thing.

Between the media, and people thinking they have a clue just because they've been reading the internet, the concept of relevance has gone totally out the window.

mickstupp

lawlolawl wrote: »

Also, the "no voice" thing is nonsense along with the idea that no one talks about mental health.

It's quite the opposite. Nowadays, no one shuts up about mental health and everyone has something wrong with them.

Rubbish.

K-9

Do they say killer had depression though? I've read killer had a mental illness, suppose they could say serious mental illness but I take it the vast majority of people assume that anyway.

mickstupp

Lemme go see if I can find it... saw it only last week I think...

K-9

Ah no, I just haven't noticed it myself, I don't doubt you at all. Something I'll keep an eye out for in future.

mickstupp

Hmm. Couple actually, relatively recently. Quick search of google news has me drawn into all sorts of oddness.
http://www.thehindu.com/news/international/world/nice-attacker-suffered-from-depression/article8860802.ece
http://dailytimes.com.pk/world/23-Jul-16/german-born-attacker-victim-of-depression-not-linked-to-is

Then I read an article from some guy talking about the germany attacks and defending the use of the term 'signs of depression' in news items. He claimed it was perfectly fine and didn't in itself indicate that the perpetrator was suffering a mental illness. Which is technically accurate.

The problem I have with this, is that that's precisely what it means to ignorant people who pick up a news paper and jump to conclusions. The media has a hand in this idea that mentally ill people are dangerous.

I saw some infographic recently claiming that way fewer people in the world were killed by people with mental illness, than Americans who were killed by gun-wielding toddlers.

I just dislike the instant focus on mental illness.

gctest50

mickstupp wrote: »

I get very angry when I see news items about killings or attacks, and right at the top, sometimes in the headline, is something along the lines of 'killer had depression'. Saw one last week. It should start with 'killer was a dickhead'..............

........ Lemme go see if I can find it... saw it only last week I think...

This would be close :


The poor little snowflake ......... not much about the business he robbed, only four words

At one point over the bank holiday weekend he robbed a business to get cash to buy drugs.

He is addicted to heroin and became homeless recently. During recent days he has punched his mother in the ribs and bit another brother, who had to go to A&E for a tetanus shot because of his use of needle

http://bit.ly/2aSdyIo

Anongeneric

This is in response to the link posted by gctest50

Did you even read the article?

These are exactly the types of situations that the OP was talking about.

A total failure on the part of the health service, and a hands in the air "sure if he'll go in voluntarily he can't be that bad"

His family and a business near to them have their lives turned upside down and because of the lack of services we are back to the
" well there's nothing to be done, hope it works out for you"

triona1

judge_ned wrote: »

technically yes but involuntary detention is extremely rare nowadays , the right to freedom of the unwell individual trumps any concern for their immediete family or the general public

unless you physically injure someone , a person would not be detained any longer than a few days even they were technically sectioned

That's just wrong so wrong.I've sat for nearly 4 year's in a psych unit and the same people are still there everytime I'd know them personally and even take items in for them that they are allowed have,one man I'd even go to the bookies for he was manic (I'd never been in a bookies in my life)But I'd sit with my partner and other sectioned patients would come out of panel sessions saying nope I'm being reviewed for another month they are kept until deemed nessicary.it's not a spectator's sport unless anyone has sat in a unit or is a psych it's unbelievable what it all means.I fought to take my partner home because I deemed him fit but even i couldn't sign him out and he only harms himself never ever harmed anyone only himself. It's a devastating topic and life for all involved.I've been put in lock down when a patient looses it for my safety and that's not a pretty place and when the shutters go down and lock down kicks in with security and all staff flying about i do see now why it's nessesery

triona1

triona1 wrote: »

That's just wrong so wrong.I've sat for nearly 4 year's in a psych unit and the same people are still there everytime I'd know them personally and even take items in for them that they are allowed have,one man I'd even go to the bookies for he was manic (I'd never been in a bookies in my life)But I'd sit with my partner and other sectioned patients would come out of panel sessions saying nope I'm being reviewed for another month they are kept until deemed nessicary.it's not a spectator's sport unless anyone has sat in a unit or is a psych it's unbelievable what it all means.I fought to take my partner home because I deemed him fit but even i couldn't sign him out and he only harms himself never ever harmed anyone only himself. It's a devastating topic and life for all involved.I've been put in lock down when a patient looses it for my safety and that's not a pretty place and when the shutters go down and lock down kicks in with security and all staff flying about i do see now why it's nessesery

I'd hope not to hurt anyone's feelings but in the 7 year's I've visited my partner alcoholic's drying out are the worst not what Andy posted about I've been boxed just been a visitor,with security putting me on the floor for my protection and my partner from the first time it happened would always say just don't talk to the new person,just because my partner wasn't well he still knew to keep to himself.sorry but its a difficult subject but feel free to ask and I'll answer honestly. My partner is doing well now has been since January but the stigma is way too much

Little CuChulainn

judge_ned wrote: »

no they are not !

even it happens , they are inevitably back out in a few days , the system is dominated by liberals nowadays

Arrest and detentions under the mental health act are common enough.

triona1

My partner would be dead 6 year's ago if that was the case.

BaaLamb

triona1 wrote: »

I'd hope not to hurt anyone's feelings but in the 7 year's I've visited my partner alcoholic's drying out are the worst not what Andy posted about I've been boxed just been a visitor,with security putting me on the floor for my protection and my partner from the first time it happened would always say just don't talk to the new person,just because my partner wasn't well he still knew to keep to himself.sorry but its a difficult subject but feel free to ask and I'll answer honestly. My partner is doing well now has been since January but the stigma is way too much

Hi Triona1, I hope you are both doing ok. It is hard on him but it is equally hard on you to have to watch him struggle with it.

triona1

BaaLamb wrote: »

Hi Triona1, I hope you are both doing ok. It is hard on him but it is equally hard on you to have to watch him struggle with it.

As long as I live nothing will ever happen him.thank you for your kind words BaaLamb.x

triona1

mickstupp wrote: »

Hmm. Couple actually, relatively recently. Quick search of google news has me drawn into all sorts of oddness.
http://www.thehindu.com/news/international/world/nice-attacker-suffered-from-depression/article8860802.ece
http://dailytimes.com.pk/world/23-Jul-16/german-born-attacker-victim-of-depression-not-linked-to-is

Then I read an article from some guy talking about the germany attacks and defending the use of the term 'signs of depression' in news items. He claimed it was perfectly fine and didn't in itself indicate that the perpetrator was suffering a mental illness. Which is technically accurate.

The problem I have with this, is that that's precisely what it means to ignorant people who pick up a news paper and jump to conclusions. The media has a hand in this idea that mentally ill people are dangerous.

I saw some infographic recently claiming that way fewer people in the world were killed by people with mental illness, than Americans who were killed by gun-wielding toddlers.

I just dislike the instant focus on mental illness.

Anyone can snap at any point it has nothing to do with mental health if I throw a plate on the floor to me that's snapping can I make that plate new again without glue?Nope but I can buy new plates somethings can be fixed but the likes of terrorism and religion is a different choice but can't all be related to mental health

gctest50

Anongeneric wrote: »

This is in response to the link posted by gctest50

Did you even read the article?

Yes ?

And It was in "answer" to this, not the OP :

Originally Posted by mickstupp
I get very angry when I see news items about killings or attacks, and right at the top, sometimes in the headline, is something along the lines of 'killer had depression'. Saw one last week. It should start with 'killer was a dickhead'..............

Anongeneric wrote: »

These are exactly the types of situations that the OP was talking about.

A total failure on the part of the health service, and a hands in the air "sure if he'll go in voluntarily he can't be that bad"

His family and a business near to them have their lives turned upside down and because of the lack of services we are back to the
" well there's nothing to be done, hope it works out for you"

He's a dickhead.



Resources are tight so they need to use them carefully - maybe on the victims first :

http://www.thejournal.ie/manor-street-gardai-assault-2910906-Aug2016/

Two gardaí were hospitalised last night after being set upon by a gang of youths in Dublin's north inner city.

or a bit more relevant ( UK though ) :

This was the terrifying scene when a shopkeeper was confronted by a drug-crazed robber wielding a Samurai sword.

He then leapt up on the counter brandishing the blade.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1065849/Pictured-The-moment-drug-fuelled-robber-attacked-shopkeeper-Samurai-sword.html

Andy From Sligo

So with all this liberalism and protecting human rights and not being able to detain patients against their will and they do get out and harm themselves or others ... who's accountable? - someones got to be accountable

triona1

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

So with all this liberalism and protecting human rights and not being able to detain patients against their will and they do get out and harm themselves or others ... who's accountable? - someones got to be accountable

Feck sake Andy are you reading anything about life experience or even ad hoc advice that's legal advice (well not in the legal forum)It's the people and carers that look after them that watch the scale.if I was to go around with this mental scale it's called invasion of privacy or stalking.I'm trying to explain the best I can.right i have 4 children I'm out working now my husband is home he has been ok since January and was never in 7 year's any harm to our kids.psych patients are looked after i could ring the gardai now and say I'm working I'm worried about my kids get my mam down and he'd be took away.it's not hard.but it is very upsetting that you just don't get it all psych patients are modded my partner gets 3 phone calls a day and he's now a public patient we spent 30k in private hospitals but they are all the same except st lomans they are free ffs they nearly killed my husband.you just can't put terriosts in the mental health sentences

Widdershins

triona1 wrote: »

Feck sake Andy are you reading anything about life experience or even ad hoc advice that's legal advice (well not in the legal forum)It's the people and carers that look after them that watch the scale.if I was to go around with this mental scale it's called invasion of privacy or stalking.I'm trying to explain the best I can.right i have 4 children I'm out working now my husband is home he has been ok since January and was never in 7 year's any harm to our kids.psych patients are looked after i could ring the gardai now and say I'm working I'm worried about my kids get my mam down and he'd be took away.it's not hard.but it is very upsetting that you just don't get it all psych patients are modded my partner gets 3 phone calls a day and he's now a public patient we spent 30k in private hospitals but they are all the same except st lomans they are free ffs they nearly killed my husband.you just can't put terriosts in the mental health sentences

Hi Triona
I wonder if Andy is thinking of people who fall through the cracks, who have no support like your husband has you.

triona1

Widdershins wrote: »

Hi Triona
I wonder if Andy is thinking of people who fall through the cracks, who have no support

Hey.I'm unsure I'd like to think so but I've seen a lot of things in psych wards and life at home with my partner.sorry widdershins I can't say.I can only get my little point across as I've said anyone can ask me anything my partner has chronic bpd with suicidal ideation and never harmed anyone only himself i made one mistake trying to get a leatherman of him i was told to never do that again so I didn't I rang for help.I've only ever rang for an ambalance maybe now 4-5 times and gardai come also.
It think it's when he put radicalisation and terrorism in it boomerang'do.

Widdershins

triona1 wrote: »

Widdershins wrote: »

Hi Triona
I wonder if Andy is thinking of people who fall through the cracks, who have no support

Hey.I'm unsure I'd like to think so but I've seen a lot of things in psych wards and life at home with my partner.sorry widdershins I can't say.I can only get my little point across as I've said anyone can ask me anything my partner has chronic bpd with suicidal ideation and never harmed anyone only himself i made one mistake trying to get a leatherman of him i was told to never do that again so I didn't I rang for help.I've only ever rang for an ambalance maybe now 4-5 times and gardai come also

Sounds like it's been hard going at times ...

Mental Mickey

Your last post was/is blank Triona

triona1

Mental Mickey wrote: »

Your last post was/is blank Triona

Fixed i was editing.

Pro Hoc Vice

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

So with all this liberalism and protecting human rights and not being able to detain patients against their will and they do get out and harm themselves or others ... who's accountable? - someones got to be accountable

You do know the harm you may do to people! I thought you where a troll now I believe you you are just bad.