M11/N11 - M50 (J4) to Coyne's Cross (J14) [options published]

marno21 · 12-12-2019 2:14pm

https://extra.ie/2019/12/12/news/irish-news/mary-coughlan-wicklow-motorway

‘We understand the need for a motorway – the traffic is absolutely chaotic in the morning – but we are against the current plans because they go right through the top of the slopes,’ he added.

‘We’re asking to bring the highway further down so we can protect the landscape.’ Glen o’ the Downs is one of Ireland’s greatest beauty spots, boasting a 2km-long wooded glacial valley.

The usual. We want a motorway but not anywhere near us. Yet everywhere the motorway can go is near them.

prunudo · 12-12-2019 3:13pm

marno21 wrote: »

https://extra.ie/2019/12/12/news/irish-news/mary-coughlan-wicklow-motorway

The usual. We want a motorway but not anywhere near us. Yet everywhere the motorway can go is near them.

And if they didn't explore these offline options there would be others giving out that the only proposal was to widen the existing road, bulldozing more of the Glen of the Downs and why didn't they look into alternatives.
Most of the vocal opposition is from people who never expected to be in the line of new road and had little care for the effects of the current road.

loyatemu · 16-12-2019 4:31pm

consultation period has been extended (deadline was last Friday).

prunudo · 16-12-2019 7:53pm

I've heard that Arup have already contacted some effected landowners and organising one2one meetings to hear individual issues and concerns. Seems like a very thorough process despite what the fb posts would have you believe.

Limerick74 · 17-12-2019 8:47am

“Shock as golf club learns clubhouse and course are in path of proposed upgrade of road”

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/shock-as-golf-club-learns-clubhouse-and-course-are-in-path-of-proposed-upgrade-of-road-38791446.html

prunudo · 17-12-2019 9:01am

Limerick74 wrote: »

“Shock as golf club learns clubhouse and course are in path of proposed upgrade of road”

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/shock-as-golf-club-learns-clubhouse-and-course-are-in-path-of-proposed-upgrade-of-road-38791446.html

Have to say, I'm more concerned for the people who's houses will be effected by the routes. There seems to be well connected people pushing certain points of view to the media on these route selections. It will be interesting to see what the hysteria will be like when they go to their preferred route. Shock horror, people getting animated about road improvements in their area but are delighted with getting to Cork or Galway in 2hrs on high quality roads.

loyatemu · 17-12-2019 10:06am

prunudo wrote: »

Shock horror, people getting animated about road improvements in their area but are delighted with getting to Cork or Galway in 2hrs on high quality roads.

What's proposed won't save any significant time on those sort of journeys. Unless you're travelling at rush-hour, and even then, only until the traffic expands to fill the extra capacity, which will probably take about 5 years.

there's 20 kilometres of "M11 gap", most of which is 100km/h dual-carriageway (there's about 1km of 60km/h through Kilmac). Even if the new road is all 120km/h it will save about 3 minutes.

prunudo · 17-12-2019 10:40am

loyatemu wrote: »

What's proposed won't save any significant time on those sort of journeys. Unless you're travelling at rush-hour, and even then, only until the traffic expands to fill the extra capacity, which will probably take about 5 years.

there's 20 kilometres of "M11 gap", most of which is 100km/h dual-carriageway (there's about 1km of 60km/h through Kilmac). Even if the new road is all 120km/h it will save about 3 minutes.

Apologises, meant more that they have little concern for the people who had houses or land cpo'ed or were affected by the building of a high quality safe roads in other parts of the country.
I understand there won't be a huge time saving excluding possibly rush hour as you say but the main reason for this proposed upgrade is to improve safety and seperate local and mainline traffic. Given the constraints of the existing route I think its right they are exploring alternative despite how mad capped and delusional some people on fb seem to think they may be.

loyatemu · 17-12-2019 11:06am

prunudo wrote: »

Apologises, meant more that they have little concern for the people who had houses or land cpo'ed or were affected by the building of a high quality safe roads in other parts of the country.

right fair enough. I guess the main difference is that those roads involved bypassing various towns so there was tangible local benefits to building them. They also mostly went through empty farmland.

The only "town" that would benefit from this proposal is Kilmac, but it's likely any bypass would still pass very close to the village so the benefits are marginal for the residents.

hometruths · 09-01-2020 5:57pm

prunudo wrote: »

I've heard that Arup have already contacted some effected landowners and organising one2one meetings to hear individual issues and concerns. Seems like a very thorough process despite what the fb posts would have you believe.

Although presented as meetings to hear individual issues and concerns, the purpose of the meetings was for Arup to find out the issues and concerns that will affect them, not the landowners!

The reason they want to meet every single landowner is to find out location of water mains, gas pipes, protected species of bats etc.

Reati · 09-01-2020 6:12pm

loyatemu wrote: »

Even if the new road is all 120km/h it will save about 3 minutes.

While you say it like it's not much, factually isn't it about 2000 minutes a year or 90ish hours less in the car if it's 3 minutes each way in the journey.

prunudo · 09-01-2020 7:13pm

schmittel wrote: »

Although presented as meetings to hear individual issues and concerns, the purpose of the meetings was for Arup to find out the issues and concerns that will affect them, not the landowners!

The reason they want to meet every single landowner is to find out location of water mains, gas pipes, protected species of bats etc.

Can't really argue with them about that, surely its prudent to get local knowledge about certain issues that may arise. From talking to a couple of people who were called to these one2one meetings, notes were being taken about the residents concerns.

But it was very much in the constraints of the various route options and no real indication of which way they were thinking, a case of everything is on the table and nothing being ruled in or out.

hometruths · 09-01-2020 7:24pm

prunudo wrote: »

Can't really argue with them about that, surely its prudent to get local knowledge about certain issues that may arise. From talking to a couple of people who were called to these one2one meetings, notes were being taken about the residents concerns.

But it was very much in the constraints of the various route options and no real indication of which way they were thinking, a case of everything is on the table and nothing being ruled in or out.

I think meetings that were attended by WCC personnel may have been very different than those attended by ARUP.

I had one of these meetings with two Arup guys, and very few notes were taken. it was also noticeable that they rushed to defend any criticism of one particular route, and were much less vocal in response to any comment on the other two.

I have spoken to others who had WCC reps and their impressions were very much in line with what you say.

prunudo · 09-01-2020 10:37pm

schmittel wrote: »

I think meetings that were attended by WCC personnel may have been very different than those attended by ARUP.

I had one of these meetings with two Arup guys, and very few notes were taken. it was also noticeable that they rushed to defend any criticism of one particular route, and were much less vocal in response to any comment on the other two.

I have spoken to others who had WCC reps and their impressions were very much in line with what you say.

Thats interesting, not 100% sure whether it was Arup or Wcc the people I talked to met, could swear they said Arup but sounds quite the opposite of your experience.

Reuben1210 · 09-01-2020 10:56pm

schmittel wrote: »

I think meetings that were attended by WCC personnel may have been very different than those attended by ARUP.

I had one of these meetings with two Arup guys, and very few notes were taken. it was also noticeable that they rushed to defend any criticism of one particular route, and were much less vocal in response to any comment on the other two.

I have spoken to others who had WCC reps and their impressions were very much in line with what you say.

Which route did you sense they were defensive about?

hometruths · 09-01-2020 11:14pm

Reuben1210 wrote: »

Which route did you sense they were defensive about?

Red - i.e upgrading/widening existing corridor.

loyatemu · 10-01-2020 1:15am

schmittel wrote: »

Red - i.e upgrading/widening existing corridor.

quelle surprise.

Macy0161 · 10-01-2020 1:13pm

To bring it back to real solutions, the 2019 Public Transport Usage stats suggest people are happy to use buses... These figures don't even include the private companies making a profit from bus services, despite the lack of infrastructure/ enforcement.

Bus Éireann 40.4 million up 13.8% (+4.9 million)
DB and Go-Ahead combined 151.9 million up 7.4% (+10.5 million)

marno21 · 13-01-2020 6:26pm

Construction contract signed for Phase 1 of this scheme, the parallel service road at Kilmacanogue. Awarded to SIAC Construction, will take 6-9 months to complete.

https://wicklownews.net/2020/01/contract-signed-for-kilmacanogue-parallel-service-road/

u140acro3xs7dm · 13-01-2020 6:30pm

marno21 wrote: »

Construction contract signed for Phase 1 of this scheme, the parallel service road at Kilmacanogue. Awarded to SIAC Construction, will take 6-9 months to complete.

https://wicklownews.net/2020/01/contract-signed-for-kilmacanogue-parallel-service-road/

Why is it going to take 9 months?

Can you imagine how long the red route will take if it goes ahead?

josip · 13-01-2020 6:47pm

Will the speed limit on the mainline increase to 80 when this is complete?
The same as northbound?

Reuben1210 · 13-01-2020 9:03pm

marno21 wrote: »

Construction contract signed for Phase 1 of this scheme, the parallel service road at Kilmacanogue. Awarded to SIAC Construction, will take 6-9 months to complete.

https://wicklownews.net/2020/01/contract-signed-for-kilmacanogue-parallel-service-road/

Any map of the route?

Panjandrums · 13-01-2020 9:18pm

Reuben1210 wrote: »

Any map of the route?

It's on Wcc's eplan website, Wicklow County Council is the applicant. The drawings are poor , as per all Part 8 applications,

josip · 13-01-2020 10:19pm

What should we search for in the various fields?
I've tried a lot of the more obvious ones for the past 10 minutes, but no joy, ergo I'm thick.
http://www.eplanning.ie/WicklowCC/searchresults

I'm obviously not the only one who has struggled to find information about this scheme on the internet.
Dominic Cummings would have been proud of how well it's buried on the net.

https://www.greystonesguide.ie/contact-signed-for-kilmac-parallel-road/

Plastik · 13-01-2020 11:56pm

18382 Wicklow County Council - http://www.eplanning.ie/WicklowCC/AppFileRefDetails/18382/0

The Application Cover Letter file gives a good overview.

prunudo · 14-01-2020 8:54am

Good to see they've moved the position of the bus stop although I can understand why the cyclists weren't happy with the design from a safety point of view.