Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours 2016/2017

8-10

PaddyWilliams wrote: »

And any more after that is... Unattainable.

Hate this pessimism

5starpool

8-10 wrote: »

Hate this pessimism

Ya, everyone knows players can give 110%, therefore it should be possible to get 125.4 points.

PaddyWilliams

5starpool wrote: »

Ya, everyone knows players can give 110%, therefore it should be possible to get 125.4 points.

How could I be so silly to forget about the 10% bonus for winning 38 games in a row :pac::pac:

Dickerty

5starpool wrote: »

Ya, everyone knows players can give 110%, therefore it should be possible to get 125.4 points.

NukaCola

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

Sport in general relies on supporters not being realistic. It's the dream of over achieving relative to your resources that keeps us all interested. If league places were consistently determined every year by the amount spent on players or wages why would anyone bother being a fan?

I never brought money into the discussion. I think its a fair assessment to say there are at least 4 stronger squads than ours in terms of quality.

It shouldn't be an expectation to over achieve relative to resources like it seems to be with a lot of posters here, year in year out. Thats all I'm really trying to say.

I dont have a problem with people expecting what I'd call unrealistic targets if those same people aren't calling for the manager to be replaced when those expectations are not met.

This season should be all about getting into the top 4, it should be a target, but we have to be fair and recognise it will be difficult and expecting it while saying anything outside it is a failure is unfair. If it doesn't happen I get the feeling a lot of people will be disappointed where realistically in terms of squad quality, we are a bit behind at least 4 teams.

tinpib

What's the best place to see updates on the main stand? Not a huge amount on the club website. Harry, you are usually the man for that?

mada999

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

missing - "coming on-stream" - a new Irish one in the top 10 phrases this year

BorneTobyWilde

Sturridge had hipster injury last year too
Hope it's not the start of another lay off
We'd be rich with points
If he had good joints

K-9

Mr.H wrote: »

So I guess we are just tomato tomatoing it??

For the record we all want a top 4.

I and "some" others think that by getting 70 points (approx) we should achieve said goal of a top 4 spot.

It is a number to target to achieve the goal.

If you dont have a number to aim at, you constantly look at the table every week and compare yourself to other teams instead of focusing on your own team.

For example:
<random sim week>
Liverpool v Arsenal (we draw 0-0)
Spurs v Palace (Spurs win 1-0)

In your scenario we could be talking about a meltdown on here if spurs go ahead of us on that given week.

But in my scenario we look at it as a point closer to our target and we dont start shouting "Klopp out"

No offence intended (I sincerely mean that) but your mentality is that of most typical couch fans.

I am no better a fan than you and I am not trying to be on any high horse. I am just a mathematical/logical thinker. My thinking is that if we have a logical target (i,e; 70 points) then that is something you can measure and reassess as the season goes on.


*By the way off topic kinda - SMART goals work best when they are not just set in stone and you reassess them as your project develops. Having more restrictive goals will damage your project when (inevitably) it doesnt go according to plan

That's what Morzadec's alternative table tries to address. It gives a target based on difficulty, an average of 2 points per game at home against the top 7, 2.5 against the rest, 1 point for the top 7 away and 2 against the rest. I put up here for last season but gave up because last season was all over the place and realistically we'd no chance of 4th come March.

K-9

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

At some point, that becomes the problem. Pogba for £89m is becoming an increasingly typical Utd signing.

Bottom line is I'm not criticising the coach or saying our squad is terrible, etc. I'm merely looking at what's happened since we last kicked a competitive ball and I can't find a case for optimism in a relative sense. Definitely not in terms of our transfer dealings relative to our rivals anyway. I'm crossing my fingers that Klopp still retains magical properties as a coach and motivater, but to "expect" top four within our current context equates to an unreasonable level of faith in his abilities.

I don't think we are spending enough either but transfer strategy is something completely outside our control anyway, it isn't as if we'll get fan protests about it, unless things go really pear shaped.

A big positive is we've a manager who is perfectly fine with working with an inferior budget to financial heavyweights, indeed that was one of the big reasons he was brought in. That's what his comments last week was getting at.

The other thing is we are hardly skinflints either, we spend plenty, is it £70 or 80 million this Summer? Our problem and it has been this way for 25 years is we often piss it away with some notable exceptions.

We've one of the best managers out there to avoid that so I don't think our positivity is totally groundless which has often been the case in the past. United are reaching for Real Madrid superclub status and there isn't a hell of a lot we can do about it anyway, just hope they keep pissing away huge transfer fees for now.

murpho999

K-9 wrote: »

That's what Morzadec's alternative table tries to address. It gives a target based on difficulty, an average of 2 points per game at home against the top 7, 2.5 against the rest, 1 point for the top 7 away and 2 against the rest. I put up here for last season but gave up because last season was all over the place and realistically we'd no chance of 4th come March.

Have never understood that table for as long as it's been running no matter how often it was explained here.

K-9

Mr.H wrote: »

If the target is changeable ie; 70pts. That means if we are having a great season we can aim higher but if we are having a poor season we can consolidate.

It's about managing expectations and not getting carried away with ourselves.

You can't say right now what 4th looks like.

If 4 teams get 90pts this season for example then I think it's unrealistic for us to expect to be in the top 4.

That's why I'm saying 70pts would be successful

It's all relative, if 4 teams are in or around 90 points that means the rest of the league is shyte so us on 70 and 20 points of top would be disappointing, whereas last year 70 would have been good.

It'll depend on if this season is a continuation of last and everybody taking points of each other or we get back to the usual.

K-9

murpho999 wrote: »

Have never understood that table for as long as it's been running no matter how often it was explained here.

The target is 75/76 points IIRC and gives an average of what we should be getting per game based on difficulty, that is it basically.

Mr.H

K-9 wrote: »

It's all relative, if 4 teams are in or around 90 points that means the rest of the league is shyte so us on 70 and 20 points of top would be disappointing, whereas last year 70 would have been good.

It'll depend on if this season is a continuation of last and everybody taking points of each other or we get back to the usual.

Thats a fair point. I guess what has gotten lost in a lot of this type of talk is that we need to have expectations but we also need to have acceptable finishes.

For example if we end up mid table on 40 points I for one will be thinking maybe Klopp isnt up to the task.

But my logic of thinking if we have around 70 points then we put up such a good showing that even if we missed top 4 I would feel that it was acceptable

70 points is not easy to achieve btw it is 20 wins and 10 draws

If we went on a Rodgers dynamic we could look at how many games should win the league. If we get 26 wins we should be there or there abouts (regardless of draws and losses)

When I see a target of "top 4" I think it is just too dependable on too many variants

But when I see a target of 70 points I think it is something you yourself (the team) has control over

You cant control what everyone else will get but you can control your own results

J Mysterio

The points target stuff is a bit pie in the sky. What matters is your position in the table.

sword1

So loverns wife made a sextape with clyne !!!!No wonder sakho was sent home

Dickerty

sword1 wrote: »

So loverns wife made a sextape with clyne !!!!No wonder sakho was sent home

Sakho showed up in the video "I'm just gonna paint this room....WHAT'S GOING ON HERE?"

Mr.H

J Mysterio wrote: »

The points target stuff is a bit pie in the sky. What matters is your position in the table.

Its this statement that shows where fans heads are at these days

This statement does not account for any variables. It means we get 4th or its a failure......................

It doesnt take into consideration if we just lose out due to a marginal points difference in an unusually high points finish for top 4. It doesnt take into consideration losing out on goal difference.

It is (and there is no other way of saying it) a couch fan attitude of I demand success or we should just sack the lot of them

Having an acceptable points target such as 70 points (which would get 4th place most seasons. I dont think a team has ever gotten 72 points and not gotten top 4 but am open for correction) but having a points target means that a sense on calmness and realism is taken into account. If we miss out on 4th we can still think we actually had a really good season.

Thinking top 4 or sack um all is just immature

Harry Palmr

Dickerty wrote: »

Sakho showed up in the video "I'm just gonna paint this room....WHAT'S GOING ON HERE?"

Who was delivering the pizza?

rossie1977

tinpib wrote: »

What's the best place to see updates on the main stand? Not a huge amount on the club website. Harry, you are usually the man for that?

Skyscrapercity and the rawk anfield stadium section http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=210414&page=402

J Mysterio

Mr.H wrote: »

Its this statement that shows where fans heads are at these days

This statement does not account for any variables. It means we get 4th or its a failure......................

Yes, this is what I have been repeatedly saying.

Mr.H wrote: »

IThinking top 4 or sack um all is just immature

No one mentioned anybody getting the sack.

5starpool

murpho999 wrote: »

Have never understood that table for as long as it's been running no matter how often it was explained here.

At a basic level what it is meant to show is that after 2 games if tem A plays Chelsea and Man City, and team B plays West Brom and Hull but both are on 2 points that team A is in a better position given the supposed difficulty of the opposition.

tinpib

rossie1977 wrote: »

Skyscrapercity and the rawk anfield stadium section http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=210414&page=402

Cool, thanks. I was actually on some general Liverpool construction thread there and they had a bit about it but this is better.

Mr.H

J Mysterio wrote: »

Yes, this is what I have been repeatedly saying.



No one mentioned anybody getting the sack.

But if we fail should there not be consequences (inevitably most will point to a failure as a time for change)

for the record even one more point than last season is a successful season regardless of who is disappointed

Harry Palmr

So then Arsenal away first up

I think we'll see a bit of extra insurance in midfield - Lallana effectively played as the one in a 2-1 against Barcelona and that proved effective providing a second high line of pressing behind Coutinho, Firmino and Mane

---

Mignolet
Clyne--Lovren(?)--Klavan---Moreno

---

Can--Hendo

---

Lallana
--Mane----Firmino---Coutinho

Subs - Man, Randall, Matip/Lovren, Stewart/Grujic, Wij, Origi, Ings

Assuming Milner and Sturridge will not make it.

I think Klopp will go with Firmino to start, a four pronged busy bee approach to keep what looks like a somewhat makeshift Arsenal back line very employed early doors. Bring on Origi at say 60 to stretch them as they go looking for the winner or equaliser (!).

J Mysterio

Mr.H wrote: »

But if we fail should there not be consequences (inevitably most will point to a failure as a time for change)

Repeated failure has consequences, sure. I dont expect us to fail to achieve top 4 though, we'll see.

Mr.H wrote: »

for the record even one more point than last season is a successful season regardless of who is disappointed

That is nonsense.

K-9

Mr.H wrote: »

Its this statement that shows where fans heads are at these days

This statement does not account for any variables. It means we get 4th or its a failure......................

It doesnt take into consideration if we just lose out due to a marginal points difference in an unusually high points finish for top 4. It doesnt take into consideration losing out on goal difference.

It is (and there is no other way of saying it) a couch fan attitude of I demand success or we should just sack the lot of them

Having an acceptable points target such as 70 points (which would get 4th place most seasons. I dont think a team has ever gotten 72 points and not gotten top 4 but am open for correction) but having a points target means that a sense on calmness and realism is taken into account. If we miss out on 4th we can still think we actually had a really good season.

Thinking top 4 or sack um all is just immature

Has anybody really said that this Summer?

Expectations will take account of what happens during a season. When Klopp took over 4th was achievable but people took account of injuries, time for players to adapt, unpredictability of the league and 2 cup runs and 63 games. Ok we lost 2 finals but I think nearly everybody is happy with how it ended up. You can see player progression except for Moreno and maybe Skrtel who is gone, hell most are sad to see Allen gone!

Given what we know now we have to be challenging for 4th minimum for me with no European football. Expecting 6th or 7th is just accepting were we should be anyway. The reason we have Klopp is not to be accepting excuses like Rodgers started giving out when things started going wrong.

Mr.H

J Mysterio wrote: »

Repeated failure has consequences, sure. I dont expect us to fail to achieve top 4 though, we'll see.



That is nonsense.

Your logic is flawed in every way.

You say you want top 4 or its a fail regardless of variable circumstances
You say couch fans wont start saying we need change if we fail

Some people almost said last season was a fail and almost said that Klopp wasnt they way forward as he had the same win rate as Rodgers last season

Chelsea
United
Arsenal
City

They are all bigger clubs than us right now. Saying that we should be better than anyone of them is mind boggling nonsense that has no place in reality.

This will be a tough season and IF we get a top 4 it will be a huge achievement. Not just a minimal expected target

corwill

Dickerty wrote: »

Sakho showed up in the video "I'm just gonna paint this room....WHAT'S GOING ON HERE?"

"I see you've decided on magnolia, judging by that sample you've tried out over there... Oh..."

jcsoulinger

This is the most pointless (pun not intended) argument ive seen here in a while, agree do disagree ffs.

Mr.H

K-9 wrote: »

Has anybody really said that this Summer?

Expectations will take account of what happens during a season. When Klopp took over 4th was achievable but people took account of injuries, time for players to adapt, unpredictability of the league and 2 cup runs and 63 games. Ok we lost 2 finals but I think nearly everybody is happy with how it ended up. You can see player progression except for Moreno and maybe Skrtel who is gone, hell most are sad to see Allen gone!

Given what we know now we have to be challenging for 4th minimum for me with no European football. Expecting 6th or 7th is just accepting were we should be anyway. The reason we have Klopp is not to be accepting excuses like Rodgers started giving out when things started going wrong.

Thats what I have been saying........... my pre-defined points target is not exactly that of a mid table side.

We should be targeting a serious challenge for top 4. But this talk of it being a failure if we dont get it is just childish.

There are 4 much better teams than us and 4 who are a serious threat to us.

Chelsea, United, City and Arsenal have better squads and are bigger clubs at this point in time.

West Ham, Spurs both have new stadiums, well financed and finished above us last year deservedly.

Southampton and Leicester also finished ahead of us.

We are playing catch up to all of them so expecting a top 4 or it being considered a failure is running before you even walk.

Now I want a top 4 finish. I think we can do it. But will I consider it a failure if we dont get it???? it depends. How far are we from it? If we are well off the pace thats a fail but if we are close it is a successful season

Mr.H

jcsoulinger wrote: »

This is the most pointless (pun not intended) argument ive seen here in a while, agree do disagree ffs.

Fair enough I think everyone is tired of it and not really caring anymore

Not everyone is going to have the same acceptability for the seaosn

jcsoulinger

Harry Palmr wrote: »

So then Arsenal away first up

I think we'll see a bit of extra insurance in midfield - Lallana effectively played as the one in a 2-1 against Barcelona and that proved effective providing a second high line of pressing behind Coutinho, Firmino and Mane

---

Mignolet
Clyne--Lovren(?)--Klavan---Moreno

---

Can--Hendo

---

Lallana
--Mane----Firmino---Coutinho

Subs - Man, Randall, Matip/Lovren, Stewart/Grujic, Wij, Origi, Ings

Assuming Milner and Sturridge will not make it.

I think Klopp will go with Firmino to start, a four pronged busy bee approach to keep what looks like a somewhat makeshift Arsenal back line very employed early doors. Bring on Origi at say 60 to stretch them as they go looking for the winner or equaliser (!).

Was thinking the same with regards lineup only Lovren questionable which you pointed out, I really like the front 4, It's very interchangeable, alot of quality and guile the only thing lacking is an out and out goal scorer tho.

K-9

Mr.H wrote: »

Your logic is flawed in every way.

You say you want top 4 or its a fail regardless of variable circumstances
You say couch fans wont start saying we need change if we fail

Some people almost said last season was a fail and almost said that Klopp wasnt they way forward as he had the same win rate as Rodgers last season

Chelsea
United
Arsenal
City

They are all bigger clubs than us right now. Saying that we should be better than anyone of them is mind boggling nonsense that has no place in reality.

This will be a tough season and IF we get a top 4 it will be a huge achievement. Not just a minimal expected target

That was opposition fans winding trying to wind us up or idiots on twitter.

jcsoulinger

corwill wrote: »

"I see you've decided on magnolia, judging by that sample you've tried out over there... Oh..."

Sakho on the casting couch,
How long can you go for?
Sakho: One Hundred Years My Friend.

Mr.H

Any idea how far along Matip is in his recovery?

Id Like to see Ings or Origi get game time against Arsenal considering they wont have a proper defender in the side

PaddyWilliams

Mr.H wrote: »

Any idea how far along Matip is in his recovery?

Id Like to see Ings or Origi get game time against Arsenal considering they wont have a proper defender in the side

He played against Mainz yesterday, so hoping he's well on way to full fitness.

Mr.H

K-9 wrote: »

That was opposition fans winding trying to wind us up or idiots on twitter.

Yea your probably right. Well regardless of how we pronounce our expectations for the season I'm sure we will all be having palpitations for the next 10 months

jcsoulinger

Mr.H wrote: »

Any idea how far along Matip is in his recovery?

Id Like to see Ings or Origi get game time against Arsenal considering they wont have a proper defender in the side

Did Matip not play most of the game yesterday or am I imagining things?

Mr.H

PaddyWilliams wrote: »

He played against Mainz yesterday, so hoping he's well on way to full fitness.

Yea I seen him on the team sheet. Didnt see the game I was at work. Gonna watch it tonight. I was wondering did he look fit or if it was just a typical "its only a friendly so he can go at half pace" to bring up his fitness.

I think he can be a great defender for us this season and give us a hand with Set pieces at both ends

Mr.H

jcsoulinger wrote: »

Did Matip not play most of the game yesterday or am I imagining things?

I thought he was only in light training but played just to build up fitness. I could be wrong though. Thats why I was wondering how he looked

SuperTortoise

Mr.H wrote: »

Yea I seen him on the team sheet. Didnt see the game I was at work. Gonna watch it tonight. I was wondering did he look fit or if it was just a typical "its only a friendly so he can go at half pace" to bring up his fitness.

I think he can be a great defender for us this season and give us a hand with Set pieces at both ends

Imo not worth watching the full game. Just a heads up

Mr.H

SuperTortoise wrote: »

Imo not worth watching the full game. Just a heads up

Yea I heard it was dreadful alright. I'm a gluten for punishment though haha

I like to watch the games regardless. A few beers will help digest

8-10

Mr.H wrote: »

Yea I heard it was dreadful alright. I'm a gluten for punishment though haha

I like to watch the games regardless. A few beers will help digest

Buy a crate

jcsoulinger

So Klopp has confirmed the reason he won't take questions from certain reporters is over the Lovren story.

Kinda relieved tbh was afraid it might be something worse.

Unfortunately hes gonna get some roasting off the opposing fans.

Talisman

Mr.H wrote: »

Having an acceptable points target such as 70 points (which would get 4th place most seasons. I dont think a team has ever gotten 72 points and not gotten top 4 but am open for correction) but having a points target means that a sense on calmness and realism is taken into account.

It has happened twice in the last 4 seasons.

2012/13: Tottenham finished 5th with 72 points. Arsenal finished 4th with 73 points.

2013/14: Everton finished 5th with 72 points. Arsenal finished 4th with 79 points.

I think that 75 points has to be the target if the team wants a realistic chance to secure a top 4 place this season.

~Rebel~

murpho999 wrote: »

How is a World Record signing a typical Utd signing?

Massively overspending - Di Maria, Martial, Pogba in successive summers.

Their MO has become - buy one hugely overpriced potential superstar, and bring in one on the cheap with astronomical wages (Falcao, Basti, Ibra). Then sprinkle in normal buys.

K-9

13/14 was a bit of an outlier though, last season the other way.

72/73 points should be getting 4th unless the top 3 or 4 run away with it again.

Harry Palmr

jcsoulinger wrote: »

So Klopp has confirmed the reason he won't take questions from certain reporters is over the Lovren story.

Kinda relieved tbh was afraid it might be something worse.

Unfortunately hes gonna get some roasting off the opposing fans.

Been reading on reddit r/soccer and redcafe, there is general if not universal approval to be honest. No one likes the S*n really.

Buford T. Justice XIX

Mr.H wrote: »

Yea I heard it was dreadful alright. I'm a gluten for punishment though haha

I like to watch the games regardless. A few beers will help digest

Watch Barcelona.

AIG reckons they're gluten-free...