Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours 2016/2017

BoardsMember

BoardsMember wrote: »

Is he that good? I would have him as proven-poor....

Karius?

Hasn't even played a handful of games for us, far too early to make any sort of decision.

I don't place much in the well regarded by his peers in Germany thing though tbh.

BullBlackNova

Agent Coulson wrote: »

When Klopp became manager I really didn't think Coutinho would the kind of player Klopp would want him to be the player to run a ball down to track back to tackle.

It does show if a player has the desire and will to improve what they can achieve to go along with their natural talent.

MD1990 wrote: »

Coutinho has improved under Klopp. But under Rodgers Coutinho was also good at pressing & interceptions.

What is often overlooked by a lot of people is the role that Coutinho played in 13/14.

Suarez, Sturridge and Sterling was our attacking trio, Coutinho played an awful lot deeper, often winning the ball and cycling it forward. Those elements of his game became far less frequent and important when he was moved forward after Suarez's departure, but Klopp is now employing them again in the advanced role.

He is performing better now than he was then, for sure, though so that is great to see. I like Coutinho but I found him frustrating over the last year and a half - clearly capable of brilliance, but oftentimes would let a game entirely pass him by without having an impact.

TitianGerm

Augeo wrote: »

Karius?

Hasn't even played a handful of games for us, far too early to make any sort of decision.

I don't place much in the well regarded by his peers in Germany thing though tbh.

I can't get over the amount of people complaining about him so far. What has he played, 3 games in the league?

He's a young guy, in a new league, with a back four in front who are bedding in a new CB and LB as well. He wasn't going to come in and be world class straight off the bat. Look how De Gea was when he first arrived.

5starpool

I get why people are using the whole "look how bad ge Gea was" thing, but at the same time, most goalkeepers will never be as good as that anyhow. While there is a good chance he will turnout to be a good keeper for us, there is also a good chance that he doesn't become the keeper for us that we all hoped and in 2 years time is no longer at the club.

In theory he might not settle, and in Jan we buy a different keeper who keeps him out of the team (or we reuse Mignolet) and he is sold next summer and everyone says he is a disaster. I certainly agree that it is too early to be definitive, and now that it is obvious Klopp intends to persevere with him I hope he grows into what we have been lacking, but to pretend he hasn't been extremely dodgy looking and indecisive over the last few games is to ignore the facts. He hasn't actually really made a save for us has he? He had the difficult cross shot he did well to parry away from danger the other night, but other than that and some crosses (the ones he came for) he hasn't had a lot to do.

dogbert27

I've said it before our goalkeepers that we all have problems with are being coached.

If the same coach has been in place for a number of "bad" goalkeepers then the coach should be questioned.

Why is John Actherberg still here?

BullBlackNova

dogbert27 wrote: »

I've said it before our goalkeepers that we all have problems with are being coached.

If the same coach has been in place for a number of "bad" goalkeepers then the coach should be questioned.

Why is John Actherberg still here?

On the flip side, why has our goalkeeper coach lasted through so many managers if he is as bad as fans (who literally never see him working) claim he is?

I'm not saying Achterberg isn't the problem, but Klopp and Rodgers speak very highly of him, as do others in the game.

Karius' issues seem to be coming down to nerves - he doesn't seem to have any command in the box, etc. No coach in the world can switch your confidence over night - that just takes time.

dogbert27

BullBlackNova wrote: »

On the flip side, why has our goalkeeper coach lasted through so many managers if he is as bad as fans (who literally never see him working) claim he is?

I'm not saying Achterberg isn't the problem, but Klopp and Rodgers speak very highly of him, as do others in the game.

Karius' issues seem to be coming down to nerves - he doesn't seem to have any command in the box, etc. No coach in the world can switch your confidence over night - that just takes time.

If it's just nerves then the guy needs to be cut some slack. He's only 22. That was his third premier league game and first after a two week international break going up against one of the most famous strikers in the world.

But you have people here writing him off already.

People here were writing off Wijnaldum in August and now he's missed against United.

People complaining that Klopp doesn't have a plan B. What plan B works against a team that puts 9 men behind the ball?

I genuinely was expecting United to get a poxy Wayne Rooney goal but thankfully it didn't happen.

I have nothing to complain about so far this season. Undefeated to United, Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs and Leicester. 11 points out of those 15.

It's the next run of games that has me scared. West Brom, Crystal Palace and Watford. If we're not at the races with these teams we could have more Burnley results.

Agent Coulson

Presser for WBA game.

sabat

dogbert27 wrote: »

I have nothing to complain about so far this season. Undefeated to United, Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs and Leicester.

I think it's time to stop including Leicester on these lists.

Potential Underachiever

sabat wrote: »

I think it's time to stop including Leicester on these lists.

Agreed, the merit of claiming a win over the champions is getting weaker with every thrashing they get!

Harry Palmr

MD1990 wrote: »

http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/723274/Huddersfield-plot-move-Liverpool-defender-Joe-Gomez-comeback-injury-Transfer-News-Gossip?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+daily-express-football-news+%28Daily+Express+%3A%3A+Football+Feed%29

looks likely Gomez will join Huddersfield on loan in January according to Joyce

Echo sez club will keep Gomez at home, presumably the U23s beckon.

mosstin

sabat wrote: »

I think it's time to stop including Leicester on these lists.

And United.

~Rebel~

dogbert27 wrote: »

I've said it before our goalkeepers that we all have problems with are being coached.

If the same coach has been in place for a number of "bad" goalkeepers then the coach should be questioned.

Why is John Actherberg still here?

Karius has only been with us for 5 minutes, and half that time he spent with a broken hand unable to train.

No coach is going to have made him better or worse under these circumstances. I've no idea about Achterberg's qualities/abilities or lack thereof, but this can't reasonably be a cause of Karius lapses in judgement.

Hopefully he'll find some confidence and get his mojo back (if he had some to begin with).

I do worry a little about his size though... he's not the biggest. A few inches shorter, and a few pounds lighter, than Mignolet, who himself isn't the most imposing. Really doesn't help in the premier league when you're trying to clear out those high balls.

Goalkeeper coach being rubbish has replaced need for a defensive coach speel.

Kerrigooney

Augeo wrote: »

Goalkeeper coach being rubbish has replaced need for a defensive coach speel.

People have been saying the goalkeeper coach Achterberg is rubbish for years now.

ElTel

dogbert27 wrote: »

If it's just nerves then the guy needs to be cut some slack. He's only 22. That was his third premier league game and first after a two week international break going up against one of the most famous strikers in the world.

But you have people here writing him off already.

People here were writing off Wijnaldum in August and now he's missed against United.

People complaining that Klopp doesn't have a plan B. What plan B works against a team that puts 9 men behind the ball?

I genuinely was expecting United to get a poxy Wayne Rooney goal but thankfully it didn't happen.

I have nothing to complain about so far this season. Undefeated to United, Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs and Leicester. 11 points out of those 15.

It's the next run of games that has me scared. West Brom, Crystal Palace and Watford. If we're not at the races with these teams we could have more Burnley results.

I feel pretty much the same. I can't have Mig back in goal. The young lad has to come for more crosses though. I know it's not one of his strengths but it's something all keepers have to do to keep the opposition attack "honest"

Muahahaha

If Peter Schmichael was judged after three PL games he would have been sold. When he first arrived he took several games to adjust to the PL, I remember him flapping at crosses and causing at least two goals because of indecision and probably nerves tbf.

Maybe Karius hasnt exactly inspired so far but it is way too early to judge. I think its just a lot of posters (including myself) have been left so nervous of Migolet that we wanted Karius to be a silver bullet with immediate impact. He hasnt so people are getting deja vu in terms of our problems in that position

garra

Augeo wrote: »

Goalkeeper coach being rubbish has replaced need for a defensive coach speel.

This guy gets slated every few months for the past 5 years yet keeps his job under various managers. He must be doing something right.

Damien360

Muahahaha wrote: »

If Peter Schmichael was judged after three PL games he would have been sold. When he first arrived he took several games to adjust to the PL, I remember him flapping at crosses and causing at least two goals because of indecision and probably nerves tbf.

Maybe Karius hasnt exactly inspired so far but it is way too early to judge. I think its just a lot of posters (including myself) have been left so nervous of Migolet that we wanted Karius to be a silver bullet with immediate impact. He hasnt so people are getting deja vu in terms of our problems in that position

Remember the Schmichael joke at the time about those few matches.

What has Peter Schmichael and Micheal Jackson got in common ?




They both wear gloves for no particular reason

dogbert27

sabat wrote: »

I think it's time to stop including Leicester on these lists.

At the time we were after losing to Burnley and drawing with Spurs.

They had drawn with Arsenal and beat Swansea.

They had narrowly lost to Hull on the opening day of the season.

We gave Leicester their first trashing of the season and it was our performance in demolishing them that was phenomenal.

So the timing and the context of how we beat the current premier league champions means that I will include them in the list.

Kerrigooney

Kerrigooney wrote: »

People have been saying the goalkeeper coach Achterberg is rubbish for years now.

The b1tching and moaning has increased 10 fold approx in the last year according to this admittedly crude measure.. http://www.boards.ie/search/submit/?forum=151&sort=oldest&date_to=&date_from=&query=Achterberg

mosstin

Damien360 wrote: »

Remember the Schmichael joke at the time about those few matches.

What has Peter Schmichael and Micheal Jackson got in common ?




They both wear gloves for no particular reason

Also, they both played with kids back in 1995.

Harry Palmr

Pyjamarama

Have people not learnt how ludicrous it is to make snap judgments on players. Remember when Lallana was a waste of money.

OwaynOTT

~Rebel~ wrote: »

I do worry a little about his size though... he's not the biggest. A few inches shorter, and a few pounds lighter, than Mignolet, who himself isn't the most imposing. Really doesn't help in the premier league when you're trying to clear out those high balls.

You forget, he's still young. He could grow more yet.

~Rebel~

OwaynOTT wrote: »

You forget, he's still young. He could grow more yet.

Ha, growing out he could probably do with, getting taller might need a miracle though!

54and56

Muahahaha wrote: »

If Peter Schmichael was judged after three PL games he would have been sold. When he first arrived he took several games to adjust to the PL, I remember him flapping at crosses and causing at least two goals because of indecision and probably nerves tbf.

Maybe Karius hasnt exactly inspired so far but it is way too early to judge. I think its just a lot of posters (including myself) have been left so nervous of Migolet that we wanted Karius to be a silver bullet with immediate impact. He hasnt so people are getting deja vu in terms of our problems in that position

GK was probably the weakest spot on the team (possibly competing with LB) last season and there's no doubt Klopp knew that so it kind of baffles me that in a transfer window where (forgive me) his "net spend" was less than £0 or whatever he didn't take the opportunity to go all out and bring in a physically commanding keeper. It's not like we don't know how to buy players from Southampton so if I was in his shoes (I know I know!!) I'd have shortlisted Frazer, Butland and Heaton and gone all out to land one of them. They are all PL experienced (well used to the physical challenge of dealing with crossed etc) and top top keepers. So what if you'd end up spending £20m or whatever. You can't say having a solid GK who in turn would provide confidence to your new CB pairing woulsn't be worth it. A solid GK who has good distribution with his feet is easily worth £20m to £25m. 33 year old Bravo cost City £17m FFS!!!

I know Klopp will have considered all options and decided Karius is the man so I'm willing to cut him some slack and let him bed in but it's hard not to think there were far better more guaranteed options available in the summer!!

mormank

dogbert27 wrote: »

I've said it before our goalkeepers that we all have problems with are being coached.

If the same coach has been in place for a number of "bad" goalkeepers then the coach should be questioned.

Why is John Actherberg still here?

Ok seriously Dog, what is the beef between you and John Actherberg?? To say you have said it before is an understatement, did he ride your missus or something??? :P

mosstin

mormank wrote: »

Ok seriously Dog, what is the beef between you and John Actherberg?? To say you have said it before is an understatement, did he ride your missus or something??? :P

Yup, then he let her slip through his hands.

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater

mosstin wrote: »

Also, they both played with kids back in 1995.

Post of the day

OwaynOTT

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Ha, growing out he could probably do with, getting taller might need a miracle though!

Be fine if we can get opposing players to play in trenches or put Karius on crates, monty Python style.

J Mysterio

I was watching Ter Stegen the other night and thinking, 'if only'. What a player he would be for us. Anyway, early doors.

Glico Man

J Mysterio wrote: »

I was watching Ter Stegen the other night and thinking, 'if only'. What a player he would be for us. Anyway, early doors.

Go watch the Barca match vs Celta Vigo where they lost 4-3... you might think otherwise

But in truth, many keepers go through a stage or making errors, or lacking complete confidence. Especially one so young, in his first few games, in a new country etc.

kingshankly

Kerrigooney wrote: »

People have been saying the goalkeeper coach Achterberg is rubbish for years now.

I used to say the same about joe corrigan

PaddyWilliams

garra wrote: »

This guy gets slated every few months for the past 5 years yet keeps his job under various managers. He must be doing something right.

Keeps kissing the right arses?

BullBlackNova

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

GK was probably the weakest spot on the team (possibly competing with LB) last season and there's no doubt Klopp knew that so it kind of baffles me that in a transfer window where (forgive me) his "net spend" was less than £0 or whatever he didn't take the opportunity to go all out and bring in a physically commanding keeper. It's not like we don't know how to buy players from Southampton so if I was in his shoes (I know I know!!) I'd have shortlisted Frazer, Butland and Heaton and gone all out to land one of them. They are all PL experienced (well used to the physical challenge of dealing with crossed etc) and top top keepers. So what if you'd end up spending £20m or whatever. You can't say having a solid GK who in turn would provide confidence to your new CB pairing woulsn't be worth it. A solid GK who has good distribution with his feet is easily worth £20m to £25m. 33 year old Bravo cost City £17m FFS!!!

I know Klopp will have considered all options and decided Karius is the man so I'm willing to cut him some slack and let him bed in but it's hard not to think there were far better more guaranteed options available in the summer!!

It has perplexed me how, in all of our shopping trips to the south coast, we never managed to snag Fraser Forster. He's an absolutely brilliant GK and I don't understand why he doesn't get more recognition.

I can quite smugly (smugly?) say that I spotted him playing on loan for Norwich City in League One in 2009 and said he had everything to be a top level GK. Sadly, I was 19 and not a Liverpool scout...

But, anyway, I do think that with the way we play, we won't ever end up with a heap of clean sheets in a season. Southampton and United, for e.g. play dedicated defensive midfielders which helps out the defence. We, quite clearly, do not.

Now, that doesn't help with Karius' nerves but I do think we all need to take a step back from the criticism. As we've said - he's young, new(ish) country, new team, etc. Look at de Gea, Schmeichel, etc. when they signed versus what they became. There's no saying what way Karius will end up, but it's a bit naive to write him off this early.

That said - we can't afford to keep making the same defensive errors - corners, crosses, etc. We HAVE to iron those out or we will drop stupid points this season.

RainMakerToo

Glico Man wrote: »

Go watch the Barca match vs Celta Vigo where they lost 4-3... you might think otherwise

But in truth, many keepers go through a stage or making errors, or lacking complete confidence. Especially one so young, in his first few games, in a new country etc.

In fairness, i think he was worried about Aspas!

garra

PaddyWilliams wrote: »

Keeps kissing the right arses?

Yeah I imagine Klopp loves it when his staff kiss his ar$e instead of doing their job, probably gives them a bonus too.. Said nobody, ever.

Agent Coulson

Look it's obvious Achterberg has pictures of Ian Ayre on a Honda 50 and keeps threatening to release them online if he is fired.

Cartman78

mosstin wrote: »

Yup, then he let her slip through his hands.

It was glove at first sight, he wanted to keeper forever

Je_suis_Jean

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

GK was probably the weakest spot on the team (possibly competing with LB) last season and there's no doubt Klopp knew that so it kind of baffles me that in a transfer window where (forgive me) his "net spend" was less than £0 or whatever he didn't take the opportunity to go all out and bring in a physically commanding keeper. ..........

Presumably he reckons Karius is going to do the job required for the next few years and hopefully beyond.

If not we can go shopping again, worst case scenario we still have Mignolet

Gbear

It's not often you solve the gk problem in one go. We had nobody good between Grobelaar and Reina.

It'll probably take several throws of the dice unless we get lucky and Karius becomes a quality keeper.

DrumSteve

Gbear wrote: »

It's not often you solve the gk problem in one go. We had nobody good between Grobelaar and Reina.

It'll probably take several throws of the dice unless we get lucky and Karius becomes a quality keeper.

No Love for Sander Westerweld or even Shakin' Jerzy Dudek?

PaddyWilliams

DrumSteve wrote: »

No Love for Sander Westerweld or even Shakin' Jerzy Dudek?

I'll remember his double save against Shevchenko forever.

bennyineire

BullBlackNova wrote: »

It has perplexed me how, in all of our shopping trips to the south coast, we never managed to snag Fraser Forster. He's an absolutely brilliant GK and I don't understand why he doesn't get more recognition.

I can quite smugly (smugly?) say that I spotted him playing on loan for Norwich City in League One in 2009 and said he had everything to be a top level GK. Sadly, I was 19 and not a Liverpool scout...

But, anyway, I do think that with the way we play, we won't ever end up with a heap of clean sheets in a season. Southampton and United, for e.g. play dedicated defensive midfielders which helps out the defence. We, quite clearly, do not.

Now, that doesn't help with Karius' nerves but I do think we all need to take a step back from the criticism. As we've said - he's young, new(ish) country, new team, etc. Look at de Gea, Schmeichel, etc. when they signed versus what they became. There's no saying what way Karius will end up, but it's a bit naive to write him off this early.

That said - we can't afford to keep making the same defensive errors - corners, crosses, etc. We HAVE to iron those out or we will drop stupid points this season.

Hi distribution and kick outs are terrible, very important in modern football

J Mysterio

Westerveld had good presence. Was a really good keeper for a while. Dudek was not bad either and put in some heroic performances.

gimli2112

Gbear wrote: »

It's not often you solve the gk problem in one go. We had nobody good between Grobelaar and Reina.

It'll probably take several throws of the dice unless we get lucky and Karius becomes a quality keeper.

Grobbelaar was a great keeper but could be wild and I wouldn't disagree with this wiki quote.

Grobbelaar's early days as No.1 were strewn with errors and the Reds struggled to obtain any sort of consistency, Grobbelaar taking a lot of the blame.

paulie21

Wijnaldum expected to be fit for tomorrow

Vicxas

Next we have "Park the Bus" Brom tomorrow, i hope we can put in a good display against them.

One_Of_Shanks

Vicxas wrote: »

Next we have "Park the Bus" Brom tomorrow, i hope we can put in a good display against them.

They're more expansive and attacking than Man United these days to be fair to them.