Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours 2016/2017

One_Of_Shanks

Knex. wrote: »

Aye, although the football played last week would have killed them if they weren't already dead.

Their teams had bad days too.

hefferboi

Can is flying it.

Alonso77

From where we were a yr ago to today shows some serious advancements. Klopp deserves some real kudos as do the players for their efforts. Delightful

livinginkorea

hefferboi wrote: »

Can is flying it.

He has too. Gigi is waiting. Good healthy competition.

Pyjamarama

Matip is so good... what a signing. When you look at how much lesser cbs have gone for in the summer. Unreal.

One_Of_Shanks

Alonso77 wrote: »

From where we were a yr ago to today shows some serious advancements. Klopp deserves some real kudos as do the players for their efforts. Delightful

We're an excellent side. Even if we were to lose today we're an excellent side.

We're very lucky to have Klopp, the man is top class.

Alonso77

One_Of_Shanks wrote: »

We're an excellent side. Even if we were to lose today we're an excellent side.

We're very lucky to have Klopp, the man is top class.

Very true, the media and rival fans spouting klopp has no plan b is pure guff. Plan A is the only plan we need.

The Utd games can happen, not gonna win every game

Gbear

It wasn't a great performance on the ball.
We didn't really create anything, but freebies created by turning the ball over are one of the ways you work through that.

Obviously there was the intensity off the ball that created both of them, but we were unusually ruthless for the first one.
We haven't been great on the break under Klopp. It's been more about winning the ball the high up the field and not giving ourselves the chance to miss.

However that first goal was absolutely spot on, textbook perfection.


Can isn't the same as Wijnaldum but you can see how his directness gives us another option. Maybe those bulldozing runs need less space than Coutinho's nippy skillful ones, but they seem to solve different problems for us.

Maybe it's just the area of the pitch. Can is coming from deeper which gives the players in front more room to play in, whereas when Coutinho is coming from the left, they're already really deep, so his option is either a shot or needing some incredible movement or interplay to pick the lock.
And he's also a better ball carrier in space than Wijnaldum.

Wijnaldum was fit and in form, but in general I'd always be a bigger fan of Can in there. It's definitely nice to have both options.

hefferboi

Yeah I'd be a fan of can in there as 1st choice too. When he's on form he's unstoppable imo.

Agent Coulson

Alonso77 wrote: »

Very true, the media and rival fans spouting klopp has no plan b is pure guff. Plan A is the only plan we need.

The Utd games can happen, not gonna win every game

Also a draw even at home against the most expensive squad in history and rivals for CL football who park the bus isn't that bad. That's a complement on how scared they were of us.


I'll be more interested to see their fans and the two old guys in the stand reaction when the park the bus at home to us.

Muahahaha

gimli2112 wrote: »

Grobbelaar was a great keeper but could be wild and I wouldn't disagree with this wiki quote.

Grobbelaar's early days as No.1 were strewn with errors and the Reds struggled to obtain any sort of consistency, Grobbelaar taking a lot of the blame.

Not sure why Grobbelaar gets mentioned, the guy was taking money to let in goals. No doubt when he was straight he was a good keeper but we really dont know how long he was up to his tricks for. He definitely cost us a victory vs Man Utd in that famous 3-3 game, Grobbelaar wanted to make it 4-3 to them but he saved a certain goal "by accident"

One_Of_Shanks

Alonso77 wrote: »

Very true, the media and rival fans spouting klopp has no plan b is pure guff. Plan A is the only plan we need.

The Utd games can happen, not gonna win every game

Yeah spot on, we're not gonna win every game. You'll get days like Burnley and united, it happens.
It happened to Shankly and Paisley and it will happen to Klopp.

The "no plan-b" stuff is the media. It's tosh.

If you asked Klopp he's probably laugh and say there's no Plan-A.

What does Plan-B mean anyway? Usually in the media it equates to a huge fecker who you hoof long balls up to when you're losing.

Let's use Dortmund as an example. Plan-A had us losing so you make subtle changes to Plan-A.
Does that then become Plan-B?

Who gives a ****e. We're a damn good side with the best manager in the world right now imo, so lets enjoy it.

Plan-A can be to win the league next season and plan-B can be to win it the season after that.

We won't need a plan-C

2.22 ppg after 9 games.
More or less top of the PL table :cool:

TitianGerm

Another 3 points in the bag. 20 points is a super total looking at our fixtures to date!!

Harry Palmr

Stupid second half, need to finish these quick breaks.

Pyjamarama

Still can't defend set pieces but didn't look remotely like conceding in open play. We have to fix that but its VERY fixable. Will take the win. Delighted.

Vicxas

2nd place. Not too shabby

Agent Coulson

Still haven't lost when Matip starts

corwill

One_Of_Shanks wrote: »

Yeah spot on, we're not gonna win every game. You'll get days like Burnley and united, it happens.
It happened to Shankly and Paisley and it will happen to Klopp.

The "no plan-b" stuff is the media. It's tosh.

If you asked Klopp he's probably laugh and say there's no Plan-A.

What does Plan-B mean anyway? Usually in the media it equates to a huge fecker who you hoof long balls up to when you're losing.

Let's use Dortmund as an example. Plan-A had us losing so you make subtle changes to Plan-A.
Does that then become Plan-B?

Who gives a ****e. We're a damn good side with the best manager in the world right now imo, so lets enjoy it.

Plan-A can be to win the league next season and plan-B can be to win it the season after that.

We won't need a plan-C

I don't know if counts as a Plan B, but I'd sure like to see us be able to play with a bit more control when the tempo drops, whatever the reason might be for that drop in tempo. Exhibit A - last 20 minutes.

Charlie19

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Still haven't lost when Matip starts

He's setteling in very well.

TitianGerm

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Still haven't lost when Matip starts

How good has he been so far though!! I thought he would be decent for us but he is already rock solid

corwill

corwill wrote: »

.... Exhibit A - last 20 minutes.

We were sitting off them in our own half for a spell.

Tiredness perhaps?

Damien360

Pyjamarama wrote: »

Still can't defend set pieces but didn't look remotely like conceding in open play. We have to fix that but its VERY fixable. Will take the win. Delighted.

The goal against us was lucky. Will happen to the best of defences. We look comfortable at the back as long as Matip is there.

Keeper had sod all to do except for the header back before the goal and he looked poor for that. One mistake.

NukaCola

Happy with that......an almost perfect performance.....in complete control until the set piece, its so frustrating to see us work so hard i open play in attack and defence, just to give up easy goals at set pieces. Not sure whats being done on them but not working whatever the method is.

Anyway, good result, take the 3 points and move on.

PaddyWilliams

Last 6 League games WWWWDW

Not shabby at all

Gbear

In general, we're amazing.

Specifically, there's a reason why all our lads our playing for us and not Barcelona or whatever.

We're doing an incredible job of maximising the energy of Lallana, Henderson, Firmino, the pace of Mane and tying it together with Coutinho but as we showed second half we're not perfect.

It wasn't the dominant dispatching of a team you'd like to see from that position, but I just don't think we have it in us to reliably put those chances away.
That's where the loss of Sturridge hurts us.

Firmino, Mane, Lallana, Can, Coutinho. None of these guys are top class finishers.

But we're doing a great job of making do with what we have, using the pace, the workrate to bridge that gap in quality up front.
Hopefully we'll continue to play that well and not get punished for our failings.

Clever yellow from Hendo there. Was wondering how he was going to manage it.:p

I think we got a bit carried away with ourselves and maybe Klopp should've clamped down on it and had us see out a boring 2-0, but maybe he doesn't want to make those kinds of decisions and is happier leaving the chips fall where they may rather than doing any negative unless it's absolutely necessary.
But I do think a 2-0 with a clean sheet would've been better for the team than trying to blow them away at this point.

Alonso77

corwill wrote: »

I don't know if counts as a Plan B, but I'd sure like to see us be able to play with a bit more control when the tempo drops, whatever the reason might be for that drop in tempo. Exhibit A - last 20 minutes.

Having said that we could've scored 3 in last 20 on another day so it's all swings and roundabouts

darced

This post has been deleted.

Turtyturd

corwill

Augeo wrote: »

We were sitting off them in our own half for a spell.

Tiredness perhaps?

It's the one niggling anxiety I have about our set-up, when the pace drops off, what's our approach then. Dropping off like we just did is not the answer I want to see, inanyways. 90 minutes at full afterburner every single game is a big ask.

But sure we got away with it, and were a bit unfortunate not to be ahead by a goal or two more by the time they jammyed one in. Mustn't grumble.

SuperTortoise

Coutinho MOTM?

Honorable mentions to Matip, Firmino, Lallana, Can.

Gbear

Damien360 wrote: »

The goal against us was lucky. Will happen to the best of defences. We look comfortable at the back as long as Matip is there.

Keeper had sod all to do except for the header back before the goal and he looked poor for that. One mistake.

By keeping the game open we're inviting possession in our half and that's always going to increase the likelihood of conceding, one way or another.

If we'd drawn that it would've been completely fair.

You can't play that open if you're going to be that wasteful up front. It's suicidal.


On the positive front, if we get that missing piece up front - basically Suarez but not as good - holy **** we'll be amazing.

Fromvert

It could of been more comfortable but a win is a win. Keep the good form rolling and joint top for now.

Having these nervy games could help the team stay grounded and aware improvements can be made

NukaCola

Gbear wrote:

Firmino, Mane, Lallana, Can, Coutinho. None of these guys are top class finishers.

They have their moments but not consistent enough......if Firmino was as lethal as Sturridge can be we'd run riot.

Firmino is a 1 in 3 striker, he's doing great but finishing wise he probably won't get close to being a 1 in 2 striker over a good few games.

Any criticism of his finishing isn't warranted IMO as he's doing great all considered.

Harry Palmr

Gbear wrote: »

In general, we're amazing.

Specifically, there's a reason why all our lads our playing for us and not Barcelona or whatever.

We're doing an incredible job of maximising the energy of Lallana, Henderson, Firmino, the pace of Mane and tying it together with Coutinho but as we showed second half we're not perfect.

It wasn't the dominant dispatching of a team you'd like to see from that position, but I just don't think we have it in us to reliably put those chances away.
That's where the loss of Sturridge hurts us.

Firmino, Mane, Lallana, Can, Coutinho. None of these guys are top class finishers.

But we're doing a great job of making do with what we have, using the pace, the workrate to bridge that gap in quality up front.
Hopefully we'll continue to play that well and not get punished for our failings.

If Sturridge (or any striker) was playing then the whole would be far less effective.

As things stand the goal count is

Coutinho 4
Mane S. 4
Milner J. 4
Firmino R. 3
Lallana A. 3

I'll take that over Sturridge with 10 and a handful of goals across the rest of the squad.

corwill

NukaCola wrote: »

They have their moments but not consistent enough......if Firmino was as lethal as Sturridge can be we'd run riot.

That wasn't me!

One_Of_Shanks

corwill wrote: »

I don't know if counts as a Plan B, but I'd sure like to see us be able to play with a bit more control when the tempo drops, whatever the reason might be for that drop in tempo. Exhibit A - last 20 minutes.

No offence but you should go find a field full of sheep and run yer balls off chasing them for 90 minutes non-stop and see if there is a period where "the tempo drops".

Because that is what we do.

Of course there will be periods where the constant chasing yields fatigue so that's when it becomes important to manage the situation correctly like we did today.

I read an interview by Milner in Klopp's early days and he was talking about how Klopp actually told them they were running too much, wasting energy.
The idea is very specific in that you run yer tits off but also know when to not run.
I'd imagine Klopp was chuffed with today.

NukaCola

corwill wrote: »

That wasn't me!

I quoted GBear, not sure what happened being honest...it was a good point though :pac:

NukaCola

Gbear wrote: »

If we'd drawn that it would've been completely fair.

Fair? definitely not, but yea if we play an open game and not take our chances leave ourselves open we'd only have ourselves to blame.....WB deserved nothing so fair is not the word I'd use there.

Gbear

NukaCola wrote: »

They have their moments but not consistent enough......if Firmino was as lethal as Sturridge can be we'd run riot.

Firmino is the best of the bunch. You can rely on him not to miss sitters at least.

Like at Palace last season, where they gave the ball to him and I knew it was a goal straight away.


But if you take his shot that Wijnaldum teed up for him, he sends an outswinging shot about chest height in approximately the right direction of the net.

It's not insane. It's not awful. It doesn't go in though.

Suarez takes a better touch there and rifles it in with the outside of his boot along the floor where nobody could reach it. He does that all the time.

There was a few others where we pretty much had open shots in the box but you only maybe have 1 or 2 possible, quite difficult finishes - maybe a dink over the top, maybe a dummy first to take out the large Olsson in your way...

We're near enough the top scorers in the league, so we're doing a lot right, but that totemic Torres, Sturridge or Suarez-type frontman just isn't available.

Looking down through the years, these kinds of teams have fallen short for us, but they're always there or there abouts and if the right guy is brought into the right position then everything can click.
It's a great platform, if nothing else.

Gbear

NukaCola wrote: »

Fair? definitely not, but yea if we play an open game and not take our chances leave ourselves open we'd only have ourselves to blame.....WB deserved nothing so fair is not the word I'd use there.

I believe in being punished when you fluff that many chances. Thought we were pissing about a bit.


I think Klopp will be going a bit mental at them as we speak, althoughly arguably he should've done something about it.

Osmosis Jones

Firmino's got 3 goals and 3 assists in 8 league games this season, not bad at all.

Gbear

Harry Palmr wrote: »

If Sturridge (or any striker) was playing then the whole would be far less effective.

As things stand the goal count is

Coutinho 4
Mane S. 4
Milner J. 4
Firmino R. 3
Lallana A. 3

I'll take that over Sturridge with 10 and a handful of goals across the rest of the squad.

When I say the loss of Sturridge, I don't mean him not starting, I mean that the Daniel Sturridge we knew and loved is gone and isn't coming back.

Agent Coulson

A good day all round first on MotD tonight as well

Harry Palmr

Harry Palmr wrote: »

.....

As things stand the goal count is

Coutinho 4
Mane S. 4
Milner J. 4
Firmino R. 3
Lallana A. 3..........

Sample size is small.

I can't see Coutinho, Mane or Milner scoring 16/17 PL goals each this season.
Firmino might score 12/13+ of course but will Lallana?

As things stand is all well and good but the PL has teams playing 38 games, not 9.

Sturridge, Origi and Ings all need to contribute to ensure we score 85+ PL goals this season, it's Klopp's job to get that done.

MD1990

Firmino is an excellent finisher. Hit the target with most of his efforts today & has 4 goals this season just behind Coutinho.
He still got a superb assist & his tracking back on a West Brom counter in the 1st half was the most selfless piece of play I have seen in a while.

One_Of_Shanks

Gbear wrote: »

When I say the loss of Sturridge, I don't mean him not starting, I mean that the Daniel Sturridge we knew and loved is gone and isn't coming back.

He's still a great player. Won't be for us but he'll move on in the summer and do great elsewhere.
It's not his fault that he doesnt tick the boxes for Klopp anymore than it's Klopp's fault.

Sometimes you can have a great player underachieving due to the system the team uses.

It's unfortunate but that's life.

We need to go striker shopping IMO.

corwill

One_Of_Shanks wrote: »

No offence but you should go find a field full of sheep and run yer balls off chasing them for 90 minutes non-stop and see if there is a period where "the tempo drops".

Because that is what we do.

Of course I'm aware fatigue is an issue, the "whatever the reason" in my post was to catch situations where counter-pressing by opponents or a massed defence etc. might interfere with the gegenpressing approach.

As a rule, I'm done with a sheep-chase in a lot less than 90 minutes

One_Of_Shanks wrote: »

Of course there will be periods where the constant chasing yields fatigue so that's when it becomes important to manage the situation correctly like we did today.

Regardless of fatigue, I'm not sure I'd agree that dropping as deep as we did today is "managing the situation correctly". I think the shape needs to change a bit, even if just for a few minutes to let things stabilise and allow everyone a breather. Basically, make midfield more crowded and not concede the space to the likes of West Brom to build attacks.

One_Of_Shanks wrote: »

I read an interview by Milner in Klopp's early days and he was talking about how Klopp actually told them they were running too much, wasting energy.
The idea is very specific in that you run yer tits off but also know when to not run.
I'd imagine Klopp was chuffed with today.

Glad to hear it, because it's pretty crucial, but even with players at their most discerning about when to press, fatigue and the likes will all still have the potential to disrupt the gegenpress.

Sure look, this is a good problem, in one way. We're discussing the possibility of turning the team from merely awesome into nigh-on perfect.