Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours 2016/2017

SlickRic

I'm starting to get worried that if a team doesn't come at us, we basically stay completely ineffectual.

Henderson was appalling in the role. No control. No guile. No playmaker instinct. No ability to get the team playing. Firmino had to drift back to try do it for him.

Milner is a pointless LB if we're against a packed defence.

Pumping balls in to giant defenders.

Coutinho taking a zillion touches every moment he's on the ball.

No speedy interplay. All we tried to do was draw out a team who had no interest in being drawn out. It's like Klopp hoped, despite Burnley never being anything other than long ball, that they'd eventually come out and we could counter press somehow.

Just such a naive showing from the team.

Osmosis Jones

Cm and LB are the position I feel need new players. Every other position has players that I think can improve greatly with training, CM and LB just feel like lost causes right now though.

Osmosis Jones

Double again

BorneTobyWilde

12% 88%
Must be around that
It was funny to click pause and reflect on it for a second
10 Burnley players in their box and us passing it around in front

ShamoBuc

Very poor and lifeless performance. Don't think we will ever have 80% possession again in a game and not score. Sturridge not at the races at all. He must not start for another few weeks. Midfield was clueless in creativity. It's amazing the difference one player can make but even as a new singing, Mané really makes us so much more dangerous going forward. Too many poor performances to list,
I would have been very happy with 4 points from 2 games, we have 3 and a big kick up the hole for both the players And Klopp, he must buy a couple of players now, we have both the need and the money .

shamrock55

Henderson has to be the most infective captain we've ever had,we need to get rid

DrumSteve

ebbsy wrote: »

Lump on Diaz the first 2 rounds my friend.

I have Diaz by sub over in the MMA forum, not looking good for Conor

Tipsy McSwagger

We need a leader badly.

mada999

Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »

We need a leader badly.

and to be able to score from corners....

Turtyturd

mada999 wrote: »

and to be able to score from corners....

Or at least not just use them to set up counter attacks for the opposition. That and Sturridge losing the ball have replaced set pieces as the biggest threats against us.

Dont be at yourself

Looking forward to Karius, Matip, Grujic, Mane and Origi getting more game time in the coming weeks...

Pyjamarama

I can't believe i'm agreeing with these posters but Henderson simply isn't captain material. We don't have one on the pitch. But you can't buy a leader it doesn't work like that. Someone has to step up and I don't really see that in our team. Bar maybe Can.

Even at the back they're wall flowers. We don't need a hardman or anything like that but Mignolet, Clynne, Lovren, Moreno... none of them are have any real influence on the rest of the players. Sakho can but he's far from nailed on.

ricero

Dont be at yourself wrote: »

Looking forward to Karius, Matip, Grujic, Mane and Origi getting more game time in the coming weeks...

Dont forgot can aswell

shamrock55

Its like we play with no brain, it's like quick quick let's get a goal,oops lost the ball 1-0 down,OK quick quick let's get a goal oops again,we've been playing like this for a few years now and this is down to management. And I don't think klopp has the brain himself to change it

Gbear

SlickRic wrote: »

I'm starting to get worried that if a team doesn't come at us, we basically stay completely ineffectual.

Henderson was appalling in the role. No control. No guile. No playmaker instinct. No ability to get the team playing. Firmino had to drift back to try do it for him.

Milner is a pointless LB if we're against a packed defence.

Pumping balls in to giant defenders.

Coutinho taking a zillion touches every moment he's on the ball.

No speedy interplay. All we tried to do was draw out a team who had no interest in being drawn out. It's like Klopp hoped, despite Burnley never being anything other than long ball, that they'd eventually come out and we could counter press somehow.

Just such a naive showing from the team.

You can't play like that against these teams.
There's a few teams in the world who can sometimes pull this tippy tappy **** off but virtually everyone needs space to win regularly.

Look at Spain. They domianted a slower type of football as the best "system" team I've ever seen but they seldom blew teams apart the way the club team they were chiefly based off - Barca - could. Barca don't do the tappy ****.
They do the tappy **** with possibly the 3 best direct attacking footballers on the planet spearheading their attack (and Messi at the very least has been there through Spains ups and downs).

Teams can cheat against us. They can remain static because they have so few problems to deal with.
Firmino and Coutinho can just be given a number of lower % chances per game off the dribble. It'll backfire when it get's blasted into the net, but teams like Burnley are playing the long game and are happy to concede goals like that.
Sturridge doesn't offer that often enough anymore and he's hardly ever in the box anyway.

Klopp had some other options. I don't think Lallana tends to be great in these games, Wijnaldum cannot play in a 2 with Henderson, Sturridge needs someone to play off, Origi actually brings pace and is a must without Mane.

If Can wasn't ready then you say **** it, it doesn't matter if they're not ideal, we need a functioning system and Stewart or Matip or something should've been brought in to Hendo's role and pushed him further up the pitch where he can actually do some good rather than being an average playmaker.

We can see the good things that Klopp is trying to do and they're brilliant, but there seems to be big gaping blind spots as well, and when he claims there are no more excuses, that this is his team and he's spent no money, if you're going to label people as naive than Klopp is the first one to get that label.

super_furry

For all the abuse that Moreno got last week, surely Klopp should have seen after 20 minutes that his pace and ability going forward was going to offer infinitely more than Milner.

shamrock55

ricero wrote: »

Dont forgot can aswell

Ooo the great can, another dud

SlickRic

shamrock55 wrote: »

Henderson has to be the most infective captain we've ever had,we need to get rid

Or play his as an AM. The only position he's ever been very good at.

Gbear

Captains are ****ing irrelevant and people need to stop obsessing over it.

Gerrard wasn't a good captain. He was a **** captain and a brilliant player.

We need more brilliant players. I don't care who our captain is.

NukaCola

Gbear wrote: »

CM and LB weren't really the issue today though.

Mane was a loss, but what kind of brain damage do the hierarchy in the club have that we can't get past sticking all our attacking eggs in one basket every bloody season?

As for sharper Sturridge, he didn't look any different than he has since recovering from his injury last Spring.

Harsh on Sturridge, think he can be a lot better.

We had no width at LB going forward, watching Milner there was painful, and our CM's were awful no creativity going forward and not suitable defensively either.....big issues today IMO.

NukaCola

I never played at the highest level but I'd find it hard to believe that when the game is going against you a clap of the hands and a "Come on lads" from the captain would inspire me to greatness.........

Osmosis Jones

shamrock55 wrote: »

Ooo the great can, another dud

We were ****e today but your cynicism is another level.

One_Of_Shanks

That was bad. But sometimes you have to take a step back in order to move forward.

There were a few lads on here yesterday pointing out how we need to play with a DCM and they got laughed at but they were right and if 5 goals conceded in 135 mins doesn't prove the point then nothing will.

We are in danger of becoming the new Arsenal if we don't acknowledge the importance of having someone to protect the back four and break up play.

I love Coutinho and I like Firmino but what happens when they have a bad day like today? You need to have enough about you to avoid losing if you cannot win.

Swansea went to this place last week and kept it tight, stayed patient and scored late on to win the 3 points.

But we show up and go at it like we're Brazil. All it took was blanket defence and two attacks to beat us.

Mignolet isn't to blame, Moreno didn't start. There's no scapegoats this time.

The lack of a DCM, the lack of protection, the lack of a spine, and too many similar airy fairy frilly players is the problem.

3 goals shipped in 90 mins last week, 2 shipped in 45 today. You don't have to be a genius to see the problem.

Grayditch

shamrock55 wrote: »

Ooo the great can, another dud

Watch football.

J Mysterio

DrumSteve wrote: »

I have Diaz by sub over in the MMA forum, not looking good for Conor

Conor by decision for me.

Pyjamarama

Gbear wrote: »

Captains are ****ing irrelevant and people need to stop obsessing over it.

Gerrard wasn't a good captain. He was a **** captain and a brilliant player.

We need more brilliant players. I don't care who our captain is.

The captain part is irrelevant to a degree, you're right there.

But we do need leaders and they are important. We don't have one of note out there. There are times when you just need someone to give someone a proper roasting. Go through the best teams in the premierships history and they have multiple of them. We don't have any... but like I said you can't buy one. They're made not bought. I think Can can be that guy but it'll take time.

There were 2 big issues for me today. The first was Henderson slowed the game down constantly. he can't play that role. The second and more important was that we played a false nine and the wide men made zero runs behind Firmino. Milner couldn't, Sturridge (who has never been good as a winger) couldn't be @rsed (at least it felt like that - and i'm a big danny fan) and Coutinho cut inside like he usually does but because it was milner with no pace out wide he had no space as there was no overlap. Thats not an effective system.

Tbh I think Klopp is still figuring out the bus parking that happens in the prem. With Dortmund he had plenty of pace to counter it and a clinical finisher in Lewa. He's trying to figure it out here. Mane was a start and I think Gigi will help too but it won't work with a Sturridge who can't run fast anymore and constantly comes deep.

Gbear

NukaCola wrote: »

Harsh on Sturridge, think he can be a lot better.

We had no width at LB going forward, watching Milner there was painful, and our CM's were awful no creativity going forward and not suitable defensively either.....big issues today IMO.

It wasn't ideal and actually, I think with his pace on the defensive counter and on the overlap, as well as a smaller number of opportunities to **** up defensively (our issue with these games isn't volume of chances but giving away really really easy ones) Moreno would've been flat out better than Milner in every way.

If he wanted Milner back in, it should've been for Wijnaldum or Lallana.

Regardless, I don't see what even the greatest LB in the history of the universe would've fixed in a team that never had enough men in the box, created no space, had nobody running in behind, had nobody who could beat a man out wide or in the box to create good chances or shots, etc...

Vanolder

I remember getting serious grief on here three years ago for calling Henderson out as being rubbish - it gives me little satisfaction to be vindicated. ... Torress was right during the week, Liverpool are always building while other teams are challenging.. The current squad is almost as bad as 2010 under Woy. Gonna be a long, long season.

ricero

Vanolder wrote: »

I remember getting serious grief on here three years ago for calling Henderson out as being rubbish - it gives me little satisfaction to be vindicated. ... Torress was right during the week, Liverpool are always building while other teams are challenging.. The current squad is almost as bad as 2010 under Woy. Gonna be a long, long season.

ah jasus

Grayditch

Zero toys left in some prams after game 2.

Gbear

Pyjamarama wrote: »

The captain part is irrelevant to a degree, you're right there.

But we do need leaders and they are important. We don't have one of note out there. There are times when you just need someone to give someone a proper roasting. Go through the best teams in the premierships history and they have multiple of them. We don't have any... but like I said you can't buy one. They're made not bought. I think Can can be that guy but it'll take time.

There were 2 big issues for me today. The first was Henderson slowed the game down constantly. he can't play that role. The second and more important was that we played a false nine and the wide men made zero runs behind Firmino. Milner couldn't, Sturridge (who has never been good as a winger) couldn't be @rsed (at least it felt like that - and i'm a big danny fan) and Coutinho cut inside like he usually does but because it was milner with no pace out wide he had no space as there was no overlap. Thats not an effective system.

I agree about leaders. That certainly doesn't preclude Henderson playing though. It doesn't even really stop him from being captain.
We've mostly used that as a sop to players like Gerrard and many teams are the same. Messi isn't some master orator or on-field tactician but he's Argentina's "captain". Mascherano is their actual captain.
In Hendo's case I think it was more about stability.

For me, he's a vital component in connecting our defence to our attack, not just in possession, but also keeping a coherent shape on the press.
He definitely isn't the one you want to be starting things off though. You want him as one of our receivers, dropping in next to the playmaker to play off, running in behind, covering the positions of the forward players when they make moves inside or outside.
His engine and general all roundness is what makes him do well in that role.

He can fill in at DM and truthfully, if there's enough in front of him I don't think it's anything like a dealbreaker.
Again, even with him slowing the play down a bit I don't think that's ever a 1-sided affair. Where were his outlets? Where was the movement? Where was the space?
You can't Xabi Alonso your way out of the way we played today either.

One_Of_Shanks

Vanolder wrote: »

The current squad is almost as bad as 2010 under Woy. Gonna be a long, long season.

Ah that's just the frustration talking. We're a country mile better than under Roy.

We're a DCM and a LB away from being serious quality and we're moving in the right direction.

I know we're all a bit down about today but lets not go OTT about it.

Osmosis Jones

I get that Klopp doesn't want a full defensive midfielder, but we need someone with at least some defensive knowledge in there, we're currently playing with two attacking Mids in holding positions.

SuperTortoise

NukaCola wrote: »

I never played at the highest level but I'd find it hard to believe that when the game is going against you a clap of the hands and a "Come on lads" from the captain would inspire me to greatness.........

No, but then you look at Henderson today and watch as he plays another sideways/backwards "safe" 5 yard pass and you might think 'well **** it he's not arsed why should i be'

Captains lead by example, when you're behind they try and force something to happen or produce a moment of brilliance to inspire a team, Henderson for the past 18 months always picks the safe option and i'm tired of it.
I've defended him stoutley over the last while but the time has come for him to spend a little time on the bench.

radiata

Osmosis Jones wrote: »

Cm and LB are the position I feel need new players. Every other position has players that I think can improve greatly with training, CM and LB just feel like lost causes right now though.

They should have held onto Joe Allen and Jon Flanagan. I thought Allen was playing the best soccer of his career when they sold him

Pyjamarama

radiata wrote: »

They should have held onto Joe Allen and Jon Flanagan. I thought Allen was playing the best soccer of his career when they sold him

Neither of them would have done anything today. Flanagan is as limited as any fullback we've put out since Konchesky.

Slattsy

But but but Henderson isnt rubbish, he's just a rubbish CM.

He's a much much better AM.




Liverpool fans = mostly lads that never played football in their life, apparently.

And FTR - Can isnt the fúcking answer by the way.

Utopia Parkway

Osmosis Jones wrote: »

I get that Klopp doesn't want a full defensive midfielder, but we need someone with at least some defensive knowledge in there, we're currently playing with two attacking Mids in holding positions.

It'll almost certainly be Can when he's back up to full fitness. That said I don't think Can is even a DM in the purest sense but he's the closest we have once you leave Lucas out of it. Henderson is not a DM. Has always played his best football going forward not sitting in front of the defence.

Vanolder

ricero wrote: »

ah jasus

Moreno is as bad as Konchesky. Henderson is absolute rubbish. Early days but Klavan looks very poor. Milner is your average English player, will run all day but tactically inept. Firmino - very average. Mignelot ... Wijnaldum - average.. In short, a fit Sturridge and Coutinho are the only bit of quality there... I think Can has the ability to be fine player tho.

Realistically, I can't see that squad doing better than 6th/7th.

Osmosis Jones

Slattsy wrote: »

But but but Henderson isnt rubbish, he's just a rubbish CM.

He's a much much better AM.




Liverpool fans = mostly lads that never played football in their life, apparently.

And FTR - Can isnt the fúcking answer by the way.

As has been evidenced by the countless ex-pro pundits on Sky Sports, BBC, etc. playing football does not mean you know how to talk about it or are any smarter than anyone else.

Montroseee

Coutinho, Firmino and Sturridge (bar 1 season) are just so inconsistent. One match they are brilliant and really inspire a lot of hope and optimism, then the next they are completely anonymous like today. It's ridiculous at this stage and why they can never be truly relied on.

Charlie19

super_furry wrote: »

For all the abuse that Moreno got last week, surely Klopp should have seen after 20 minutes that his pace and ability going forward was going to offer infinitely more than Milner.

I find it hard to believe that anyone can honestly say that Moreno would be a better option at LB. I would possibly even consider Markovic over him at this stage and thats saying something.

Moreno is young and has time to learn but I hope thats at some other club, he is too much of a liability at the moment.

redzerdrog

Jesus wept

Harry Palmr

Henderson is an athlete not a football player - either use him as the runner or not at all.
This two without any DM sense set up is obviously a failure, just have to hope than Can at least gets the nod in a 2-1 middle. Even then I'd wonder, it may just be time to drop an attacker - one of the 10s and start Origi.

Clyne----Lovren--Klavan---Moreno (reprieve!)

---

Can---Grujic
----Mane----Lallana---Coutinho

---

Origi

Gbear

On the plus side I like the look Grujic.

Quick shuffling of the ball for such a big man.

A hulking attacking midfielder is something I'd like to see pay off, for novelty if nothing.

Bored of all these tiny ****ers cheating with their low centers of gravity and easy acceleration.

Osmosis Jones

Adding personnel is not the only way to improve the team. There are a couple of positions that need new players yes, but for the most part players just need to improve and they can do so with training. If the only way to improve a team was to purchase players then coaches would be pointless.

One_Of_Shanks

Montroseee wrote: »

Coutinho, Firmino and Sturridge (bar 1 season) are just so inconsistent. One match they are brilliant and really inspire a lot of hope and optimism, then the next they are completely anonymous like today. It's ridiculous at this stage and why they can never be truly relied on.

Slightly harsh imo but lets say you're right just for the sake of argument.

What should happen if they (our attacking players) have a bad day?

You should draw 0-0. You shouldn't lose and you shouldn't always need to score 3 or 4 goals to win a game.

Our strong suit is our attack but for the love of God it shouldn't mean that we just forget about stopping goals.

I don't mind that we couldn't break down Burnley today, it happens. But I mind that we conceded 5 goals in two games.

Gbear

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Henderson is an athlete not a football player - either use him as the runner or not at all.
This two without any DM sense set up is obviously a failure, just have to hope than Can at least gets the nod in a 2-1 middle. Even then I'd wonder, it may just be time to drop an attacker - one of the 10s and start Origi.

Clyne----Lovren--Klavan---Moreno (reprieve!)

---

Can---Grujic

---

Lallana
----Sane

---

Origi----Coutinho

If we take a drink every time someone calls Mané Sane we'll have the memories of today banished in no time.:p

corwill

Ben Gadot

NukaCola wrote: »

Lets not go crazy now, it was a poor performance, and poor game management/selection from Klopp......its obvious and many have said it, we need more in CM and we need a proper LB......with Sakho coming back and Matip coming back we'll be better in defence(hopefully), add in Mané and a sharper Sturridge and we'll be much better I think...

It's a bigger problem than that.

We were lucky to beat Arsenal last week. If we didn't score before half time we would have lost that game, guaranteed.

This team's problem is that they're bottlers when they've been expected to get a result. Has been apparent for a long time. They're simply happy to be underdogs and not leaders.

Like it's absolutely shocking to me that people are using Mane's absence as an excuse for the defeat, he's only played one ****ing game.