Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours 2016/2017

BorneTobyWilde

One thing I would say is that maybe just maybe we are a little naive when away from home against a so called smaller team. Maybe our approach to a game like this would be to control it, to keep our shape and not look to push forward straight away. We should probably ease into a game like this keep it tight and deny the home side an easy lead and something to hold onto.
In games like this maybe our side should get better as game goes on through introducing more attacking players like Countinho and Firmino . I thought this season we could concede first but still score 2 + .

One_Of_Shanks

Slattsy wrote: »

Liverpool fans = mostly lads that never played football in their life, apparently.
.

What?

Nah sure anyone who follows Liverpool never saw a ball but everyone who likes your team was Pele reincarnated.

What age are you? I'm hoping it's pre-Santa

Otherwise, besta luck with all your endeavours

Osmosis Jones

One_Of_Shanks wrote: »

What?

Nah sure anyone who follows Liverpool never saw a ball but everyone who likes your team was Pele reincarnated.

What age are you? I'm hoping it's pre-Santa

Otherwise, besta luck with all your endeavours

Believe or not he's a pool fan

One_Of_Shanks

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

One thing I would say is that maybe just maybe we are a little naive when away from home against a so called smaller team. .

Of course we are. We have 6 players who want to attack. We have nobody protecting the defence.
It would be forgivable if the defence was actually water tight but its not.

One_Of_Shanks

Osmosis Jones wrote: »

Believe or not he's a pool fan

haha, no way? Oh well, Its not often that I'm stuck for words but I am now

Pyjamarama

One_Of_Shanks wrote: »

Of course we are. We have 6 players who want to attack. We have nobody protecting the defence.
It would be forgivable if the defence was actually water tight but its not.

They had two chances and scored two goals... its not like we were overrun. Their second also had more than an element of good fortune to it.

BorneTobyWilde

Chinese bid to buy liverpool, breaking on sky news

One_Of_Shanks

Pyjamarama wrote: »

They had two chances and scored two goals... its not like we were overrun. Their second also had more than an element of good fortune to it.

But that's the entire point mate. They only needed to attack twice to score two goals.

Harry Palmr

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Chinese bid to buy liverpool, breaking on sky news

The club have only just stated it is not for sale.

Gbear

I'll never criticise the team for wanting to play attacking football.

I'm totally happy for us to concede from chances like today sometimes.

I don't think you can fix the issues at the back with signings to be honest. Attackers have the advantage on the break or from turnovers and you're just going to get situations where you get punished.

These effects can of course be mitigated a bit and I expect our set defence to do a lot better than Moreno can provide, as well as improving our set piece defending in general.
All styles of play have weaknesses. Our problem is we're not leveraging our strengths.

Our style assumes that the attacking football is set up coherently with the requisite roles being fulfilled.
That's not happening. It hasn't happened since Suarez left.
Rodgers failed to address that. He bought lads who weren't ready for this level or were simply the wrong quality or style.

Thus far Klopp has had the better part of two windows to address this and ultimately has failed to do so in a comprehensive fashion.

Good football isn't one style. Good football is winning football.
You can play attacking football, even recklessly so, as we showed in 13/14, with a fairly awful team excluding the front 4.
That team didn't need to play different football. It needed to get more depth, improve general quality and minimise it's weaknesses to some degree.

Suarez and Sterling have left without there being a whole lot we could do about it but our response has not just been short on quality (as would be expected with such excellent footballers leaving) but it's just been completely the wrong direction.

We have improved a bit in the areas we initially needed to fix, but at the same time we lost what made attacking football work for us and have never fixed it.

Charlie19

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Chinese bid to buy liverpool, breaking on sky news

Liverpool Tigers FC playing at home in the Honda Arena.

The thoughts of it.:eek:

kingshankly

Christ lads we are crap and we were crap last week bar 20 minutes
Very worrying the way klopp can't break down teams that come to defend

One_Of_Shanks

Harry Palmr wrote: »

The club have only just stated it is not for sale.

Yeah I read that statement too. And I was thinking why come out with this now.
Well, now we know why.
They knew there was an offer coming in.

If you have a lovely house and you get a rumour that someone wants to buy it, the shrewd move is to let it be known that it aint for sale.
Even if you'd accept a bid for the right money.

kingshankly

Charlie19 wrote: »

Liverpool Tigers FC playing at home in the Honda Arena.

The thoughts of it.:eek:

At least we're already red

Agent Coulson

To make matters worse I'm now stuck with the poxy new look site on my phone

Pyjamarama

kingshankly wrote: »

Christ lads we are crap and we were crap last week bar 20 minutes
Very worrying the way klopp can't break down teams that come to defend

We're not crap. We're still a work in progress... what did people expect?

Again its not like we were played off the park today. We just didn't have the guile and movement today. We had the players out there to do it but they didn't execute.

BorneTobyWilde

I would not read much into today's result. We dominated a team away from home.
More of the same please.

One_Of_Shanks

Pyjamarama wrote: »

We're not crap. We're still a work in progress... what did people expect?

Again its not like we were played off the park today. We just didn't have the guile and movement today. We had the players out there to do it but they didn't execute.

Yeah agreed, we're far from "crap". Some areas that we need to work on.
I'd say defensively more than attack, but either way it's madness to call us crap.
We're a good side in the making. Today was a bad day but that's life.

BorneTobyWilde

I saw enough today to be content
We had so many attempts with quite a few on target
Just football
On another day could have been 2-4

Seaba

I can accept goals, like the first one, happen at times, although I would still prefer we hoof it more often when in trouble.
Second goal can't accept. Sturridge just dallied on it and lost it (lost it myself with him when this happened and then they went and scored from it, really lost it!) but Klavan should either had won that tackle or took a yellow for the team. Then Gray cut inside 3 of our defenders so easily.

Hated myself for thinking this at the time but a team under Mourinho would never concede a goal like that (they probably did in the last year at Chelsea but it was all falling apart then)

Apart from our slow passing (Henderson, Coutinho) or woeful passing (Firminio and Coutinho) we had no wide players who can take on a left/right back, lose it a few times, but get in behind now and again. Mane is that type of player, maybe Ojo/Markovic, but no one else in a one on one. So we passed it back inside, slowly, over to the other wing, back again, slowly etc etc.

That performance has ruined my Saturday night - going out for a few pints (wife and kids gone) and that game will be in the back of mind all night!

One_Of_Shanks

Seaba wrote: »

I can accept goals, like the first one, happen at times, although I would still prefer we hoof it more often when in trouble.
Second goal can't accept. Sturridge just dallied on it and lost it (lost it myself with him when this happened and then they went and scored from it, really lost it!) but Klavan should either had won that tackle or took a yellow for the team. Then Gray cut inside 3 of our defenders so easily.

Hated myself for thinking this at the time but a team under Mourinho would never concede a goal like that (they probably did in the last year at Chelsea but it was all falling apart then)

Apart from our slow passing (Henderson, Coutinho) or woeful passing (Firminio and Coutinho) we had no wide players who can take on a left/right back, lose it a few times, but get in behind now and again. Mane is that type of player, maybe Ojo/Markovic, but no one else in a one on one. So we passed it back inside, slowly, over to the other wing, back again, slowly etc etc.

That performance has ruined my Saturday night - going out for a few pints (wife and kids gone) and that game will be in the back of mind all night!

Ha, good post fella. Yeah Saturday night ruined is true. No need to record MOTD tonight anyway

Osmosis Jones

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

I would not read much into today's result. We dominated a team away from home.
More of the same please.

Of course we dominated possession with 6 midfielders on the pitch. We didn't go anywhere with it though.

Turtyturd

Seaba wrote: »

I can accept goals, like the first one, happen at times, although I would still prefer we hoof it more often when in trouble.
Second goal can't accept. Sturridge just dallied on it and lost it (lost it myself with him when this happened and then they went and scored from it, really lost it!) but Klavan should either had won that tackle or took a yellow for the team. Then Gray cut inside 3 of our defenders so easily.

This has happened 3 times in the last few games (Today/Newcastle/and can't remember the other one), but I suppose he did score that goal in the EL final.

Have also seen not nice guy (hope that's not abuse) James Pearce try and blame Klavan for the opener for the pass he played. Clyne was purely at fault. For the most part they played the ball out well under pressure today but there is always a nervousness watching them do it. Sometimes it just needs to be hoofed.

shamrock55

Gbear wrote: »

Captains are ****ing irrelevant and people need to stop obsessing over it.

Gerrard wasn't a good captain. He was a **** captain and a brilliant player.

We need more brilliant players. I don't care who our captain is.

Your wrong,a captain is someone the rest can look up to, a captain leads by example and brings the best out of everyone,Henderson is none of these,Gerrard was all and more

That_Guy

So, eh... how did Gini play for you today?

Gbear

Agent Coulson wrote: »

To make matters worse I'm now stuck with the poxy new look site on my phone

I managed to revert it at some point.

Look for "legacy site" down the bottom.

It's a bit fiddly and doesn't always work.
And the new site has some features that actually do work better, like not having to reload the "My threads" "my forums" and "newest posts" page when you switch between tabs.

Pyjamarama

That_Guy wrote: »

So, eh... how did Gini play for you today?

About as well as the rest of the team.

Agent Coulson

Gbear wrote: »

I managed to revert it at some point.

Look for "legacy site" down the bottom.

It's a bit fiddly and doesn't always work.
And the new site has some features that actually do work better, like not having to reload the "My threads" "my forums" and "newest posts" page when you switch between tabs.

Brilliant that worked a treat.

Gbear

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

I would not read much into today's result. We dominated a team away from home.
More of the same please.

We were totally ineffectual. That wasn't down to just having an off day. We were fundamentally not set up correctly and this game isn't the only evidence of that.
The reason people are going ape**** is because there has been a bit of murmuring over our business, about who we've brought in and about how much money we haven't spent.

Then you see us making the same old mistakes and it doesn't look like we've fixed anything.

Left backs, keepers not throwing it in the net, more depth up front is all working in the margins.
It's good to improve but when there's still a total failure to deal with teams who represent the bulk of points on offer it's incredibly frustrating.

We've polished the turd to a mirror sheen at this point.
It's better than a regular turd, but it's still a turd.

We're making progress, it's good and unlike under Rodgers, you'd believe that we can beat anyone on our day at this point, but it feels like we're letting opportunities get away from us as well.

Turtyturd wrote: »

This has happened 3 times in the last few games (Today/Newcastle/and can't remember the other one), but I suppose he did score that goal in the EL final.

Have also seen not nice guy (hope that's not abuse) James Pearce try and blame Klavan for the opener for the pass he played. Clyne was purely at fault. For the most part they played the ball out well under pressure today but there is always a nervousness watching them do it. Sometimes it just needs to be hoofed.

I was ****ing Klavan out of it as soon as he made the pass.
It wasn't great football and it put us under pressure.

One of the things Klopp said about Moreno last week was in the general vein of "success having many fathers but failure being an orphan".

We've played some really **** football in possession in the last few games and while you can point to the biggest error in each case, all across the park our players are dealing each other ****ty ****ty hands and putting each other under pressure.

The system creates the pressure in the first instance, so some of this is to be expected, but we need to get more reliable in how we hold on to the ball.
That counter-attack right down the middle of the park, with weak dribbling getting players caught in possession, has lead to two goals in two games.

LuckyLloyd

That was an unacceptable level of performance. A very soft second goal and a completely toothless offensive display. If there are many games like it this season will fail to be a successful one. Bottom line.

Ulysses Gaze

You really can't follow up a result against a bona fide Top 4 side like Arsenal with the one today against Burnley. Work in Progress or not.

Pyjamarama

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

You really can't follow up a result against a bona fide Top 4 side like Arsenal with the one today against Burnley. Work in Progress or not.

Nobody is saying its acceptable but there's no point getting carried away either.

After every loss its "we have to spend" "we need a left back" "we need a dm". What we need is our players to play to their ability and to execute better than they did today. You don't need Ronaldo or Messi to beat Burnley. We have better players than they do, we have a better manager. We just didn't execute today. Our movement was non existent and our decision making awful. Our manager can only do so much. The players have to take the responsibility for that and start to bloody believe in themselves and each other. Coutinho constantly shooting from 30 yards has to stop, he has to start believing in others but they have to start making space to the passes.

Not that the manager is absolved from blame here. He's not. The decision to play Sturridge wide makes no sense to me. The decision to play Hendo deep also seems like a flawed concept but I'm sure he'll figure that one out. I don't blame him for trying it as Hendo at times is a very good passer of the ball but thats when he's got runner behind him not in front. Milner at left back offers very little against a team like Burnley.

Klavan prob shouldn't be in ahead of Matip but he earned his chance. He played well vs Arsenal and looked great in preseason.

One_Of_Shanks

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

You really can't follow up a result against a bona fide Top 4 side like Arsenal with the one today against Burnley. Work in Progress or not.

Ideally not, no. But its done now so the important thing is to learn from it and improve.

Most people seem to be fixating on our inability to break them down instead of worrying about conceding 5 goals in 2 games.
That's the bit that worries me.
There's bag fulls of goals in this side, even if it didn't happen today.
But if you concede 5 goals every 2 games then you're going nowhere.

kevohmsford

Klopp has failed to address the problem of left back and central midfield. We are too soft. Henderson is a passenger.

Pyjamarama

One_Of_Shanks wrote: »

Ideally not, no. But its done now so the important thing is to learn from it and improve.

Most people seem to be fixating on our inability to break them down instead of worrying about conceding 5 goals in 2 games.
That's the bit that worries me.
There's bag fulls of goals in this side, even if it didn't happen today.
But if you concede 5 goals every 2 games then you're going nowhere.

I think people are looking at it from the viewpoint that we're not giving away many chances. They scored with their two today. Arsenal likewise were clinical. Teams aren't cutting through us with ease. We also have Karius, Matip and Sakho to all come back into the team.

prettyboy81

The buck stops with Klopp for that pathetic performance.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

You really can't follow up a result against a bona fide Top 4 side like Arsenal with the one today against Burnley. Work in Progress or not.

Eh... we've been doign that for the best pard of a decade now?

The problem is we can't break down teams. This isn't new. Top 4 side goes 1-0 agaist Liverpool, they're going to continue to attack so it'll be a reasonably open game. Lower-league side go 1-0 and they park the bus - we'll never get through.

Agent Coulson

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Eh... we've been doign that for the best pard of a decade now?

The problem is we can't break down teams. This isn't new. Top 4 side goes 1-0 agaist Liverpool, they're going to continue to attack so it'll be a reasonably open game. Lower-league side go 1-0 and they park the bus - we'll never get through.

Two and a half decades being honest.

LiamoSail

A defeat at Turf Moore early in the season and with a new manager has been a good omen for the season ahead in the past #djimi

Iused2likebusts

That was always going to be a tough game. They weren't going to play out from the back so the klopp pressing game was never going to come into play. They have 2 strong physical players up front the type of players we struggle with consistently. Dyche got his tactics spot on today I'd expect more from klopp and the players.

murpho999

Is it possible that Klopp himself is learning the Premiership as he may not have experienced teams that were set up like Burnley in the Bundesliga?

We seemed to have no back up plan today and just kept doing the same thing.

We're fine against big teams that play openly but poor against teams that defend and counter attack.

One_Of_Shanks

Pyjamarama wrote: »

I think people are looking at it from the viewpoint that we're not giving away many chances. They scored with their two today. Arsenal likewise were clinical. Teams aren't cutting through us with ease. We also have Karius, Matip and Sakho to all come back into the team.

That's fair mate and I don't want to come across as arrogant or condescending but what I am trying to get across is that you don't need to create many chances against us. One or two will win you the game.

You only need to defend and then counter a couple of times and its job done.


We're too easy to play through and too open. If you look at our stats about the amount of goals we concede per shot on target, it's close to a goal for every shot.

Now the lazy thing is to jump to the conclusion that its the keepers fault.

(you didn't do that but Im speaking generally)


Most people who are critical of Mignolet will admit that hes a good shot stopper.


But almost every shot on target against us yields a goal.


So the only other answer is the quality of chances.

Should Mignolet have saved those two today?

Not really.

Last Sunday, was it Mignolet's fault we let in three? Not really.


So it's appropriate to ask questions about why we concede so many goals. And more importantly why do we concede so many clear chances.

We're not letting in goals from long range shots etc, we are allowing teams to sit back, defend, and then attack a couple of times and mug us.

Pyjamarama

murpho999 wrote: »

Is it possible that Klopp himself is learning the Premiership as he may not have experienced teams that were set up like Burnley in the Bundesliga?

We seemed to have no back up plan today and just kept doing the same thing.

We're fine against big teams that play openly but poor against teams that defend and counter attack.

Yeah he's defo still learning. Tbh we won't play many teams who do a Burnley on us this year. The premiership is changing. But regardless we need to not concede so early. It just gives them confidence and puts more pressure on our players.

I know its harsh but Mignolet really was awful for their first. He barely dived... the second he could do nothing about but its so rare he makes a really good save these days. And before someone mentions the peno it was a **** peno.

mada999

kingshankly wrote: »

Christ lads we are crap and we were crap last week bar 20 minutes
Very worrying the way klopp can't break down teams that come to defend

not just klopp..... it's been most of our managers in the last 15 or 20 years...

ricero

The chinese are coming. Fsg in talks to sell a stake of the club

Francie Barrett

That_Guy wrote: »

So, eh... how did Gini play for you today?

He was a total passenger throughout the game if truth be told.

OwaynOTT

ricero wrote: »

The chinese are coming. Fsg in talks to sell a stake of the club

I for one welcome our new Chinese overlords, I bet it's Kess73 behind it all.

BorneTobyWilde

''Toothless performance''

How can you hurry hustle and harry a team that just gives you the ball. Maybe just punch them in the face. They offered nothing.

NukaCola

Burnley played it perfectly. Hoof ball to 2 attackers when they got possession. Burnley scored early from a mistake and scored their second by running through our soft middle.

Our pressing doesn't work when the other team dosent keep the ball and our fast interplay doesn't work with 9 players behind the ball. So you need width and intelligent running into and around the box. We had neither. Easy to play us if you defend competently and hit us on the break. It has been this way for 5/6 years at this stage, we just dont seem to have the players to deal with it. Coutinho/Sturridge/Firmino all shooting from distance in a hit and hope kind of way, yet when a ball is put in the box they are around the 18 yard line looking to shoot.

One_Of_Shanks

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

They offered nothing.

Oh but they did. They offered up the tactical blueprint about how to beat us.

Sit tight, leave no room for through balls/runs and then pick your moment to play through the heart of us.