Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours 2016/2017

~Rebel~

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

I would not read much into today's result. We dominated a team away from home.
More of the same please.

We didn't dominate shit.

There's no achievement in keeping possession in areas where the opposition are happy for you to have it.

This was no heroic backs to the wall defending, Burnley were comfortable all day, and we played right into their hands. 'Pool could still be out there now, and still wouldn't have scored.

Possession is irrelevant if you're not doing anything with it.

But worse than that, the worst case scenario from those 2 game plans today should have been 0-0. Instead, when they actually bothered they go forward, they cut right through us. And the best unscored chances in the game were all Burnley's too! On another day, Gray could have had a hat trick.

Harry Palmr

xabi wrote: »

This pops up every few months, but this time it's being reported in the Financial Times and Sunday Times. Everything is for sale at the right price.

It's being reported because it's "news" not because it's actually going to happen.

brevity

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Ask Klopp what he wants...he runs the team not FSG

It seems that the same mistakes are rearing their head again.

Namely, playing players in the wrong position (Henderson) and not buying a DM.

jesus_thats_gre

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

He has played one competitive game for us ffs.

against an Arsenal defence that Moreno would have gotten a game in :pac:

razorblunt

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Dunno how Clyne was not mentioned
He was to blame for first goal, what an idiot.
Hadn't seen first goal until now, watched whole game live, just missed the first.

There's narratives at play here alot of the time dragging England players over the coals isn't part of it.

xabi

Harry Palmr wrote: »

It's being reported because it's "news" not because it's actually going to happen.

So that's why they call them newspapers.

~Rebel~

On this whole DM debate thats been going on, let's just strip away the labels.

Whatever you want to call the role Henderson had today, floating around deep - that's what we need a new one of.

We don't have a single high quality player in our squad that's a natural fit for that role, Lucas being the closest, but beyond that, there's literally nothing. (and don't say Stewart or Can, one of whom is nowhere near the required quality to be starting for us regularly, and the other is much more comfortable and effective pushing forward).

doc_17

doc_17 wrote: »

FSG's policy has seen us make top 4 one year out of six. Yes the previous owners left us in a jock, but it wasn't down to reckless transfer spending. Spending 20-30m per year won't get it done. I want is to win the league and we are so far away.

Yup, and as mentioned I don't think they'll spend their way to make us on paper bankers for Top4.

Their latest attempt is an acclaimed top class manager with a CV that ticks all the boxes, folks claim big signings aren't his thing.

We all want to win the league, Leeds Utd fans & Notts Forest fans do too, such is life.

~Rebel~

~Rebel~ wrote: »

On this whole DM debate thats been going on, let's just strip away the labels.

Whatever you want to call the role Henderson had today, floating around deep - that's what we need a new one of.

We don't have a single high quality player in our squad that's a natural fit for that role, Lucas being the closest, but beyond that, there's literally nothing. (and don't say Stewart or Can, one of whom is nowhere near the required quality to be starting for us regularly, and the other is much more comfortable and effective pushing forward).

I'd give Sakho a game in front of the back 4 I'm serious. He's a better fit for it than Milner is at LB.

BorneTobyWilde

Clyne is our most reliable player. I wish they were all like him.
But that mistake was idiotic when a simply pass up the line and away from goal was on.
What a decision to play it into that area. I know how reliable he is but he made huge error today.

Agent Coulson

Klopp can go back to Dortmund and get Bender now the Olympic football is over.

J Mysterio

Augeo wrote: »

I'd give Sakho a game in front of the back 4 I'm serious. He's a better fit for it than Milner is at LB.

:eek:

noodler

Augeo wrote: »

I was impressed with Grujic when he came on.

I think Henderson will struggle to keep his starting place in the midfield two but if he is fully recovered a game or two further up field would be playing to his strengths as others have mentioned.


To be fair to Milner he's attack minded but at 30 years old isn't pacey enough to cover the ground Moreno does and he also seems no better defensively. Add in that his left leg seems to be simply only good for standing on and a left back he does not make.
.

I know you mean left back only but Milner is better at defending than Moreno whatever the position whether it be left back, midfield or even missionary.

Pyjamarama

~Rebel~ wrote: »

We didn't dominate shit.

There's no achievement in keeping possession in areas where the opposition are happy for you to have it.

This was no heroic backs to the wall defending, Burnley were comfortable all day, and we played right into their hands. 'Pool could still be out there now, and still wouldn't have scored.

Possession is irrelevant if you're not doing anything with it.

But worse than that, the worst case scenario from those 2 game plans today should have been 0-0. Instead, when they actually bothered they go forward, they cut right through us. And the best unscored chances in the game were all Burnley's too! On another day, Gray could have had a hat trick.

They were never incisive... they pumped long balls up and outside of the goals created nothing... not sure how gray could have had a hattrick.

We were bad enough without just saying random stuff like they cut right through us when they patently didn't.

~Rebel~

Pyjamarama wrote: »

They were never incisive... they pumped long balls up and outside of the goals created nothing... not sure how gray could have had a hattrick.

We were bad enough without just saying random stuff like they cut right through us when they patently didn't.

He had two other chances that came from doing exactly that, sprinting onto long balls. They didn't even need to be incisive. It's shocking that that's all it took to completely undo us, but there it is...

He had one chance where he slipped into space inside the box to the keepers left where he skewed his shot, and he had a great opportunity on the counter around the 70min mark, baring down on goal with only Klavan there trying to keep pace with him. He got the ball caught up in his feet though, which gave enough time for 2 other defenders to get back. Had he gotten that touch out ahead of himself, he had Klavan beaten all ends up, and was through for a one on one.

Pyjamarama

~Rebel~ wrote: »

He had two other chances that came from doing exactly that, sprinting onto long balls. They didn't even need to be incisive. It's shocking that that's all it took to completely undo us, but there it is...

He had one chance where he slipped into space inside the box to the keepers left where he skewed his shot, and he had a great opportunity on the counter around the 70min mark, baring down on goal with only Klavan there trying to keep pace with him. He got the ball caught up in his feet though, which gave enough time for 2 other defenders to get back. Had he gotten that touch out ahead of himself, he had Klavan beaten all ends up, and was through for a one on one.

Thats not cutting us open.. thats what happens when a pacey player has space to run into when a team is chasing the game. I'm in no way defending how we played today but lets not turn this into some masterclass of tactics by Burnley. It was effective but it was basic stuff.

The simple fact is that we took the east pass every time today. That made it so easy for them to defend against us. Thats what needs to change. That and starting the game on the front foot. We seem to come out off the pace so often. That was the big difference back when we had Luis. We'd come out of the gates so quickly... really need to get that tempo into the game from the outset. We don't have players who can dictate for long periods of sustained pressure so we need to be explosive.

I know people are saying "mane is only one player" or that "he only played one game" but the fact is that these are the kind of games he was bought for. He's not just about pace on the counter. He can run at a man and beat him. commit a second player, create space for someone else. Even if he loses it their shape has been compromised and if we nick it back the counter is on. I honestly think that by the end of the season we'll have Ojo to cover for that role. He's cut from a similar cloth.

~Rebel~

Pyjamarama wrote: »

Thats not cutting us open.. thats what happens when a pacey player has space to run into when a team is chasing the game. I'm in no way defending how we played today but lets not turn this into some masterclass of tactics by Burnley. It was effective but it was basic stuff.

I think that's down to our interpretations of the term - but in my opinion, they scored twice against us by cutting straight through. Also, neither of their goals involved any sort of lumped ball down to chase. First goal, they won the ball wide by pressing high, slipped it straight through to an unmarked centre forward at the edge of the box, who turned and finished. Second goal, Defour picked it up just outside their box, and was allowed to run the length of the field, to just outside our box, where he slipped it to Gray, who in turn cut inside and finished. Both goals we had plenty of players there to defend, but they cut right through us.

Understandably, after that point they didn't bother doing those kinds of things anymore cause they were home and hosed, happily defending a 2 goal lead. So their other attacks were the quick ball variety, again straight down the middle, cutting out our midfield. Chances which they perhaps should have scored from despite being at a numerical disadvantage in our half.

And I don't think this was a tactical masterclass on their part either, which makes it worse. They cut through us with 2 embarrassingly simple bits of football, and then sat back to do some embarrassingly easy defending.

Totally agree with you that we kept taking easy passes (and still ****ed plenty of them up). Around the box it was so slow and ponderous that it really can't even be described as probing...probing insinuates the possibility of a quick strike when the opportunity presented itself, but instead we kept putting the foot on the ball and the opening was closed. Or else our quick lay offs were simply misplaced.

Ugh. Very annoying game on our part.

BorneTobyWilde

"We've said it before and I'd like to say it again: this club is not for sale," Werner reiterated
"At the same time we've been clear that we actively pursue commercial opportunities which in turn helps us invest in the squad and win football matches."These commercial discussions can be complex and we've said in the past, under the right conditions and absolutely with the right partner, we could look at some small investment stake in the club.

"But only in the framework of doing what would be in the club's long-term best interests. I want to reiterate that the club is not for sale."

http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-soccer-england-liv-idUKKCN10V0SO

I think this is possible. Seems this story has more too it. Would not dismiss it so easily .

doc_17

Harry Palmr wrote: »

How many times is this lie going to be posted as fact? FSG have bought the players Klopp has wanted - if he wanted Dahoud they'd have made an offer, if he wanted Hector they'd have made an offer to get him. Blame Klopp for buying cheap players if you like and blame the club for selling so well if you like - but that's why LFC is in profit. Its not because they won't spend the money.

A lie? Not sure which point of mine you are referring to? FSG are there 6 years and Klopp there less than 1.

Utopia Parkway

Harry Palmr wrote: »

I think we can put this to bed.

Corporate sales are nearly always denied until suddenly they go through. Who knows is this case? Time will tell.

mosstin

Two major flaws have not been addressed in the transfer market - CM and LB - and that will return to haunt us throughout the season unless we do so in the coming days. It's hard to see who Klopp now sees as his first choice CM partnership.
Looking at Chelsea's first two games this season and in both they were struggling with one up front, heading to a draw but Conte switched things on both occasions and they have two wins from two. Not remotely trying to unfavourably compare Klopp to Conte but it was glaringly obvious yesterday that the way we were playing wasn't working yet we kept hammering away.

Francie Barrett

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

"We've said it before and I'd like to say it again: this club is not for sale," Werner reiterated
"At the same time we've been clear that we actively pursue commercial opportunities which in turn helps us invest in the squad and win football matches."These commercial discussions can be complex and we've said in the past, under the right conditions and absolutely with the right partner, we could look at some small investment stake in the club.

"But only in the framework of doing what would be in the club's long-term best interests. I want to reiterate that the club is not for sale."

http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-soccer-england-liv-idUKKCN10V0SO

I think this is possible. Seems this story has more too it. Would not dismiss it so easily .

Why even sell a small stake if that is the case?

I reckon the owners have a price they'd be happy to sell at.

Lord Trollington

Probably the most pathetic performance under klopp and anyone for quite some time.

We have a multitude of problems that I'm perplexed to understand why we are not addressing them with decent players . Klavan looks and seems like a pub team player.

Milner at LB. Henderson. I don't see a top 4 finish. We were suppose to be peak fitness and hit the ground running under klopp this season

..... I thought people reckoned after intensive Klopp per season we'd take a while to settle etc & early poor performance to be expected?

Dunno myself, being wrecked from pre season does seem looney.

sReq | uTeK

I think it will be fine when klopp puts his stamp on the team and it's not a Rodgers squad

Burneley manager with his 6 midfielders jibe..... poor Firmino not happy with that I bet :pac:

sReq | uTeK

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

I think it will be fine when klopp puts his stamp on the team and it's not a Rodgers squad

...... klopp seems to share Rodgers thinking on markovic, mignolet and hopefully now Moreno. They both seem style wise against dedicated DM destroyers/controllers. I reckon klopp likes the squad as it is now.

Klopp looks to be trying to emulate 2013/2014 IMO, blast them with attack with a smidgen of gaggen press thrown in.

NukaCola

Augeo wrote: »

...... klopp seems to share Rodgers thinking on markovic, mignolet and hopefully now Moreno. They both seem style wise against dedicated DM destroyers/controllers. I reckon klopp likes the squad as it is now.

Klopp looks to be trying to emulate 2013/2014 IMO, blast them with attack with a smidgen of gaggen press thrown in.

Pretty sure that post was a dig at Klopp......he was in the match thread saying we'll struggle to get top 6.....I wouldn't have bothered with a thought out reply :P

Tipsy McSwagger

Lord Trollington wrote: »

Probably the most pathetic performance under klopp and anyone for quite some time.

We have a multitude of problems that I'm perplexed to understand why we are not addressing them with decent players . Klavan looks and seems like a pub team player.

Milner at LB. Henderson. I don't see a top 4 finish. We were suppose to be peak fitness and hit the ground running under klopp this season

Silver lining is the transfer window is still open.

NukaCola

Does anyone think our Defence will improve or will we see more of the same. We have started our last two games with average/poor LB, 4th choice CB, possibly 3rd choice CB and a possibly 2nd choice Keeper.

I am fairly confident we'll improve when Sakho comes back, not sure on Matip but would be seen as an improvement on Klaven and with Karius coming back, although Mig has been ok the last 2 he still conceded 5 goals, not blaming him of course.

Yesterdays game still grating..................I am a bit disappointed with Klopps in game management, yesterday was a prime example, no change until 60+ mins, but it happens a lot.

NukaCola

NukaCola wrote: »

Pretty sure that post was a dig at Klopp......he was in the match thread saying we'll struggle to get top 6.....I wouldn't have bothered with a thought out reply :P

Cheers, didn't spot that, wasn't perusing match thread beyond the match

~Rebel~

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

Corporate sales are nearly always denied until suddenly they go through. Who knows is this case? Time will tell.

To be fair, this was a particularly odd denial though, in that they came straight out with an official statement on the matter, rather than being pushed into it. Warner also specifically mentioned that anyone claiming to be buying, is simply looking for attention.

That's not the type of comment you make if you're actually intending on selling to someone. He had no need to say anything about buying parties, but choose to effectively insult them...wouldn't expect someone actively engaged in selling to do that.

All the same, I wouldn't be at all surprised by them selling, say, 20% of the club on. But I really doubt we're leaving FSG, or anything even close to it.

~Rebel~

Francie Barrett wrote: »

Why even sell a small stake if that is the case?

Same reason anyone sells any shares or company %'s...they want to get some money liquid to do something else. It effectively functions as a dividend, with each shareholder taking a nice chunk of cash out as a % is repaid at a nice, high, up to date value. Maybe Henry or Warner has an apartment building they want to buy, or a company to acquire, who knows.

Gbear

NukaCola wrote: »

Does anyone think our Defence will improve or will we see more of the same. We have started our last two games with average/poor LB, 4th choice CB, possibly 3rd choice CB and a possibly 2nd choice Keeper.

I don't think it'll improve games like yesterday.

You could have Baresi, Cannavaro and Buffon back there and it wouldn't make a blind bit of difference when you play the whole game offering your throat to the opposition.

If you play a high-stakes, aggressive brand of football high up the pitch, "get better at defending" isn't really how you fix it when it's not working.

Kerrigooney

NukaCola wrote: »

Does anyone think our Defence will improve or will we see more of the same. We have started our last two games with average/poor LB, 4th choice CB, possibly 3rd choice CB and a possibly 2nd choice Keeper.

I am fairly confident we'll improve when Sakho comes back, not sure on Matip but would be seen as an improvement on Klaven and with Karius coming back, although Mig has been ok the last 2 he still conceded 5 goals, not blaming him of course.

Yesterdays game still grating..................I am a bit disappointed with Klopps in game management, yesterday was a prime example, no change until 60+ mins, but it happens a lot.

Not all his fault,of course but he's either very unlucky or very shit and I know which one I'm going with.

Burnley's first goal yesterday was a decent shot but his attempt at saving it was pathetic.

SlickRic

I've said it a thousand times.

He never bails us out and rarely saves shots you wouldn't expect a top keeper to make.

NukaCola

Gbear wrote: »

I don't think it'll improve games like yesterday.

You could have Baresi, Cannavaro and Buffon back there and it wouldn't make a blind bit of difference when you play the whole game offering your throat to the opposition.

If you play a high-stakes, aggressive brand of football high up the pitch, "get better at defending" isn't really how you fix it when it's not working.

Dont know about that, if Klaven put in a better challenge on Defour there would be no second goal......but yea the defence never seem to get the protection it needs....

NukaCola

SlickRic wrote: »

I've said it a thousand times.

He never bails us out and rarely saves shots you wouldn't expect a top keeper to make.

As I responded in the match thread he saved a peno one game ago.....

Tipsy McSwagger

I've said it lots of times that I believe Mignolet is the worst keeper in the league.

Kerrigooney

NukaCola wrote: »

As I responded in the match thread he saved a peno one game ago.....

...and let in the next 5 shots on target.

NukaCola

Kerrigooney wrote: »

Not all his fault,of course but he's either very unlucky or very shit and I know which one I'm going with.

Burnley's first goal yesterday was a decent shot but his attempt at saving it was pathetic.

I dont rate him, he is what he is an average keeper, but I cant think of one goal he should have saved......the freekick against Arsenal where the ball went under his hand was maybe one he could have anticipated better.

~Rebel~

Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »

I've said it lots of times that I believe Mignolet is the worst keeper in the league.

He's clearly not though...he's just under far more scrutiny than the other average keepers in the league, which is exactly the category he falls into.

He was far from the problem today, or last week. It would be nice to have a keeper that could rescue us from other peoples mistakes, but that's what those goals were - other peoples mistakes.

I am very much looking forward to seeing Karius, but Mig has plenty about his game to criticize without us needing any hyperbole.

NukaCola

Kerrigooney wrote: »

...and let in the next 5 shots on target.

And? He never bails us out? He saved a peno....that counts as a bail out in my opinion

Kerrigooney

NukaCola wrote: »

And? He never bails us out? He saved a peno....that counts as a bail out in my opinion

I'm not the one that said he never bails us out. Yes saving the penalty counts as a bail out but means nothing when he's letting every other shot past him.

Anyway there's no point complaining about him...Karius is injured and will hopefully be straight in when fit. I just hope we're not too far back by then.

Pyjamarama

NukaCola wrote: »

And? He never bails us out? He saved a peno....that counts as a bail out in my opinion

It was an awful peno. It wasn't some amazing save. He should have done better with the first yesterday. He flops on the ground... he also inspires no confidence in the players in front of him.

Regardless there's a MASSIVE over reaction on here, as to be expected I guess.

Re: not making changes til 60 people were screaming for subs at half time against Arsenal too.

NukaCola

Kerrigooney wrote: »

I'm not the one that said he never bails us out. Yes saving the penalty counts as a bail out but means nothing when he's letting every other shot past him.

Anyway there's no point complaining about him...Karius is injured and will hopefully be straight in when fit. I just hope we're not too far back by then.

But thats what I was replying to. I wasn't saying he's great, just that he bailed us out only one game ago.......IMO its not fair to blame him for shots on target going in when they were all good finishes coming mainly from mistakes from our defenders.....Was there one he should gotten to? No.....if your being fair that is.

NukaCola

Pyjamarama wrote: »

It was an awful peno. It wasn't some amazing save.

Damned if you do and damned if you dont....

Vicxas

Looks like Karius wont be out for as long as we thought. Could be back after the international break.

Can anyone explain why Matip hasnt been started yet?

Kerrigooney

NukaCola wrote: »

But thats what I was replying to. I wasn't saying he's great, just that he bailed us out only one game ago.......IMO its not fair to blame him for shots on target going in when they were all good finishes coming mainly from mistakes from our defenders.....Was there one he should gotten to? No.....if your being fair that is.

Burnley's first yesterday and I think I am being fair. I don't normally attack players but he's absolutely doing my head in. Even more than Moreno is.

NukaCola

Kerrigooney wrote: »

Burnley's first yesterday and I think I am being fair. I don't normally attack players but he's absolutely doing my head in. Even more than Moreno is.

Two CBs let Vokes have a free shot that went top corner.....he was never getting to it.......

Its funny that i'm in a position of defending a keeper I dont like, if only our Defence done the same :pac: