Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours 2016/2017

corwill

We have the same problem now as we've been having since Alonso and Masch left, which is a lack of control in midfield.

What I'm getting a bit twitchy about is that I'm not sure that Klopp wants or values that sort of control in the middle.

Gegenpressing is all well and good when it works, but we seem to be dependent on it working from whistle to whistle every single match, all season long. Is that realistic?

mosstin

corwill wrote: »

We have the same problem now as we've been having since Alonso and Masch left, which is a lack of control in midfield.

What I'm getting a bit twitchy about is that I'm not sure that Klopp wants or values that sort of control in the middle.

Gegenpressing is all well and good when it works, but we seem to be dependent on it working from whistle to whistle every single match, all season long. Is that realistic?

He does - Gundogan gave it to his Dortmund team.

corwill

corwill wrote: »

...........

Gegenpressing is all well and good when it works, but we seem to be dependent on it working from whistle to whistle every single match, all season long. Is that realistic?

Not a chance.

Vicxas

The question was answered on Saturday, what does Klopp do when we have the lions share of the possession?

In short, he doesn't know what to do.

kingshankly

Folks was wondering can any of you younger technical savvy chaps help me looking for a picture of a pair of football boots in a glass case with "in emergency break glass" on it have been searching on google but no luck

mosstin

kingshankly wrote: »

Folks was wondering can any of you younger technical savvy chaps help me looking for a picture of a pair of football boots in a glass case with "in emergency break glass" on it have been searching on google but no luck

Was going to offer advice but I'm an older tech savvy type. Carry on.

NukaCola

Vicxas wrote: »

The question was answered on Saturday, what does Klopp do when we have the lions share of the possession?

In short, he doesn't know what to do.

Well in short yes, but some of the players really have to take some flak too.....our so called match winners Sturridge/Coutinho/Firmino etc were pathetically bad with their decision making....what do you do when a team refuses to play and defend? What strategy is Klopp going to employ? What is the solution?

Maybe get more width and try and get around their backline but Burnley were really deep and crosses into the box aren't our strong point in terms of not having the physicality to win them.

Maybe Coutinho could try and get on the ball and look for creative running from Sturridge and Firmino and do his through passes that we know he can do instead of shooting over and over and over while Firmino and Sturridge stay static.....

Klopp needs to find a solution because with the players we have and the way we normally play we'll see this quite a bit....

kingshankly

mosstin wrote: »

Was going to offer advice but I'm an older tech savvy type. Carry on.

us oul lads need to stick together

Knex*

corwill wrote: »

We have the same problem now as we've been having since Alonso and Masch left, which is a lack of control in midfield.

What I'm getting a bit twitchy about is that I'm not sure that Klopp wants or values that sort of control in the middle.

Gegenpressing is all well and good when it works, but we seem to be dependent on it working from whistle to whistle every single match, all season long. Is that realistic?

I'm not even sure Klopp wants control, tbh. Look how he lined up against Dortmund and Sevilla last year, and it continued into this year. He loves playing what we would traditionally regard as attacking players.

Maybe that's a product of not having the type of holding/controlling midfielders that we all want, but when you consider he had an entire transfer window to bring in new players, and we are now playing Wijnaldum in CM alongside Henderson and Lallana, I'm not so sure.

Now, that being said, he could well have Can nailed down as a proper DM and be trying to mold him into the player he wants, while also developing Grujic and Stewart.

Time will tell, anyway. At the end of the day, we'll likely have more good days than bad with Klopp, and I won't be panicking for a while yet.

theoneeyedman

Vicxas wrote: »

The question was answered on Saturday, what does Klopp do when we have the lions share of the possession?

In short, he doesn't know what to do.

In that case, throw on a big lad up tip and swing in crosses into him in the box. Perhaps we need to bring in someone like this during this transfer window, I dunno, say someone like Benteke or something...... Oh wait....

paulie21

Been linked with Bruno Martins Indi. Porto want 6 million of course we reportatly offer 4.3 million

Harry Palmr

That's days old and a load of hog-wash.

Demosthenese

Like many times in recent seasons, we are fine when we play a team that comes out to attack us - Arsenal/City/United etc ... cos they think they can win the game by taking us on and it gives us the chance to attack on counter with speed. Our problem is thanks to the success of Leicester in part, teams playing 11 men behind the ball and us not being able to break them down. Under Rodgers we had Suarez and he was more often the difference between winning and losing.

Teams know we are vulnerable on the counter, look at the second goal v Burnley - painful to watch that a guy can sidestep 3-4 players and not be challenged. It's worrying since the Roma friendly how easily teams can cut open our middle. We can scapegoat Moreno at times but it is the collective here not the individual of Klopps team that matter. Collectively from Hendo in that holding role to the 2 centre backs we are weak.

Emre Can is the best option in that role going forward and in defence, any game i've watched especially in Anfield the guy barely moves from the centre circle and is very disciplined in his play - Hendo cannot replicate that. Yes he is not Alonso or Gundogan but he still our best option.

But i still feel the bigger problem lies further forward, Coutinho/Sturridge/Lallana/Firminio all on the pitch at the same time surely should be getting better attacking results - we should be cutting teams apart. Yes we're missing Mane for now but the others need to stand up.

Results like Saturdays will keep cropping up cos we do not have Conte/Mourinho as managers and their styles are to not concede rather than all out attack like Klopp. But lets judge in 10 games rather than 2.

Knex*

paulie21 wrote: »

Been linked with Bruno Martins Indi. Porto want 6 million of course we reportatly offer 4.3 million

Harry Palmr wrote: »

That's days old and a load of hog-wash.

Seems like he's been around for ages, yet he's only 24.

Regardless of whether the link is valid or not (and very likely not), anyone know how he's been doing with Porto?

marklazarcovic

Convinced too that sturrige has a problem with klopp,or lfc in general,he optimised the half arsed attempt on Sat..not the first time,never seems to give everything.

NukaCola

marklazarcovic wrote: »

Convinced too that sturrige has a problem with klopp,or lfc in general,he optimised the half arsed attempt on Sat..not the first time,never seems to give everything.

He didn't look match fit and put in a real poor performance but it might be a stretch to say he has issues with the club.....its hard to know really at the same time....

PaddyWilliams

He didn't look happy being subbed either. Maybe it's just his time of the month.

Polo_Mint

theoneeyedman wrote: »

Vicxas wrote: »

The question was answered on Saturday, what does Klopp do when we have the lions share of the possession?

In short, he doesn't know what to do.

In that case, throw on a big lad up tip and swing in crosses into him in the box. Perhaps we need to bring in someone like this during this transfer window, I dunno, say someone like Benteke or something...... Oh wait....

You sound like LVG

Dominate possession. Get nowhere. Put a tall lad in the box.

I'm surprised at klopp but I'm sure there is pressure from all sides. Not on results but signings

He would have been signed to sign youngish talent and turn them into phanomal players. (He still could)

I think LFC fans would like him to sign some proven top class players.

I think FSG might stick with plan A and see where the bench mark is at the end of a full season

Knex*

The Echo have a piece on the supposed Chinese investor interest. Make of that what you will.

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/liverpool-china-everbright-six-key-11779188

SuperTortoise

The thing that worries me most about the weekend game is there are 18 managers that will have watched that game, and when it's their turn to play us that's the kind of gameplan they will go for.

Not being able to break down a team that parks the bus has been a problem for us for years, even in the Suarez era we found it hard.
The key is to get a goal early so they have to come out a bit, how to do that is the problem Klopp must solve.

Pyjamarama

So now Klopp, Jurgen Klopp who has won multiple bundesligas doesn't know how to win.a game when you have more possession than the opponentstandard. That's completely laughable.

We won plenty of games last year when we had more possession. It was a bad game where the players played ****. Those games have less to do with tactics as opposed to just being better than your opponent. In those games it's pretty much up to the players to nothe be ****. You need them to create the space with movement or clever passing. It doesn't come down to some special tactic the manager can utilise.

If Burnleys tactic was so effective every weaker team would employ it week in week out and get a draw minimum but most of the time the better players will just play better than we did and create some chances and take them. It's not rocket science.

No blue print to beating us had been created here lads. Tbh I hope that other managers think it had been because the more experience we get against it the more comfortable we'll be with it.

Let's also not forget that 3 of our 4 signings you'd expect to be starting week in week out weren't yesterday. No need for all this mad panic.

NukaCola

Pyjamarama wrote: »

So now Klopp, Jurgen Klopp who has won multiple bundesligas doesn't know how to win.a game when you have more possession than the opponentstandard. That's completely laughable.

Are a lot of people saying that though? Aren't the vast majority of people just saying we have big issues playing against a good defensive team that sit back and hit us on the break? Last season we've had those type of games and it looks like we will struggle again but maybe not. Its only two games in after all.

Agent Coulson

There was lots wrong with the team that played on Saturday

Starting with an ineffective striker who just walked around.

Coutinho who cut in and shot from 30 yards every chance he got.

Firmino who can't play with the ineffective striker and didn't press like usually and the ball was like an anti magnet to him it bounced away from him the whole time.

A midfield that seemed to be playing hot potato with the football and over or under passing that ball the whole time.

The defenders were weak and afraid to make a hard tackle or take a ball where it hurts.

Mignolet was just Mignolet.

Pyjamarama

Pyjamarama wrote: »

.............
Let's also not forget that 3 of our 4 signings you'd expect to be starting week in week out weren't yesterday. ...........

Karius, Mane & ?

8-10

Knex. wrote: »

Seems like he's been around for ages, yet he's only 24.

Regardless of whether the link is valid or not (and very likely not), anyone know how he's been doing with Porto?

Not really setting the league alight but solid. The player you want from Porto is Andre Silva. He's going to be a super player

ricero

Augeo wrote: »

Pyjamarama wrote: »

.............
Let's also not forget that 3 of our 4 signings you'd expect to be starting week in week out weren't yesterday. ...........

Karius, Mane & ?

Reckon matip and sakho or one of them. Cant see klavin being a starter

Pyjamarama

NukaCola wrote: »

Are a lot of people saying that though? Aren't the vast majority of people just saying we have big issues playing against a good defensive team that sit back and hit us on the break? Last season we've had those type of games and it looks like we will struggle again but maybe not. Its only two games in after all.

I prob should have quoted someone but I do think there has been a huge overreaction. They had plenty of counters that we dealt with easily. I don't think Burnley were as threatening as some people think they were. The had 2 shots on target and both went in. We stupidly handed them a goal (tho it was some finish in fairness) and that made it all the more difficult. We've won plenty of games where teams set up like that but its the ones where we don't that stick in the mind as we feel like they're points thrown away.

Its more than ok to criticise and question the manager on certain aspects but its also important to take him for what he is too. We signed a manager who has a style of play he prefers yet we want him to sign players that fit how we imagine that we should be setting up. Even when you look at the midfielders we missed out on they're not cdms. We won't be playing with a proper cdm and tbh what games would we be using one in? We've a pretty good record against the better teams and we hardly needed a Mascherano on sundayl. If an Alonso type player is what we need then fair enough but tbh he's just not mobile enough for what Klopp wants out of his midfielders.

Augeo wrote: »

Karius, Mane & ?

Matip. Klavan earned his chance tbf but Matip was in the Bundes team of the season for a reason.

garra

Pyjamarama wrote: »

I prob should have quoted someone but I do think there has been a huge overreaction. They had plenty of counters that we dealt with easily. I don't think Burnley were as threatening as some people think they were. The had 2 shots on target and both went in. We stupidly handed them a goal (tho it was some finish in fairness) and that made it all the more difficult. We've won plenty of games where teams set up like that but its the ones where we don't that stick in the mind as we feel like they're points thrown away.

Its more than ok to criticise and question the manager on certain aspects but its also important to take him for what he is too. We signed a manager who has a style of play he prefers yet we want him to sign players that fit how we imagine that we should be setting up. Even when you look at the midfielders we missed out on they're not cdms. We won't be playing with a proper cdm and tbh what games would we be using one in? We've a pretty good record against the better teams and we hardly needed a Mascherano on sundayl. If an Alonso type player is what we need then fair enough but tbh he's just not mobile enough for what Klopp wants out of his midfielders.

Matip. Klavan earned his chance tbf but Matip was in the Bundes team of the season for a reason.

This is pertinent. Every post I have read which contains the words defensive midfielder, DM, Lucas, etc I have ignored for the simple reason you have outlined above.
It's Klopp's team, it was Klopp's success with Dortmund that landed him the greatest job in world football.. Now it's his methods and his playing style that we have to learn to love.
Let's adapt to that reality instead of blowing more hot air on to these pages about concepts which garner not a passing thought from our manager.

Agent Coulson

Agent Coulson wrote: »

............

Firmino who can't play with the ineffective striker and didn't press like usually and the ball was like an anti magnet to him it bounced away from him the whole time.............

Firmino didn't improve when Origi came on.

Agent Coulson

League Cup Presser.

Knex*

I keep forgetting we have a game tomorrow.

ricero

Saw online today that several chinese companies are looking to buy a stake in lfc. I reckon fsg are licking their lips and hoping for a bidding war if true

Agent Coulson

There does seem to be legs to the Chinese takeover story this time around compared to previous links.

K-9

Getting a settled first 11 on the pitch will help plus making sure we don't concede in the first 15 minutes!

Can and Sakho will help as will Mane but it's just a wasted opportunity to get a good start.

K-9

Agent Coulson wrote: »

There does seem to be legs to the Chinese takeover story this time around compared to previous links.

Based on what though? Genuinely interested to see what makes this different to other stories, the Echo piece seems to be a filler piece to be seen to write something on it.

Nerdlingr

garra wrote: »

This is pertinent. Every post I have read which contains the words defensive midfielder, DM, Lucas, etc I have ignored for the simple reason you have outlined above.
It's Klopp's team, it was Klopp's success with Dortmund that landed him the greatest job in world football.. Now it's his methods and his playing style that we have to learn to love.
Let's adapt to that reality instead of blowing more hot air on to these pages about concepts which garner not a passing thought from our manager.

Nothing wrong with noting with don't play with a Defensive midfielder and questioning why. Even the best teams in the worlds play with a Defensive Midfielder. The longer we leave our results in the hands of gegenpressing and not with closing games out as we should, the more we're gonna get results like the anomalies we got last season and have continued to get in this.

Harry Palmr

ricero wrote: »

Saw online today that several chinese companies are looking to buy a stake in lfc. I reckon fsg are licking their lips and hoping for a bidding war if true

Everything in this post is wrong!

sword1

I don't know why the club are paying klopp all that money ,any amount of posters here could do the job at a much lower price

Mr.H

We have two defensive mids if we wanna use them. I just think we don't.

Also if you want to stop using gegenpressin it means you want a new manager.

You can't have it both ways. Klopp is the manager or he isn't

Pyjamarama

Nerdlingr wrote: »

Nothing wrong with noting with don't play with a Defensive midfielder and questioning why. Even the best teams in the worlds play with a Defensive Midfielder. The longer we leave our results in the hands of gegenpressing and not with closing games out as we should, the more we're gonna get results like the anomalies we got last season and have continued to get in this.

And why wasn't this the case at Dortmund then?? We've had plenty of games where we have closed the game out nicely under Klopp. Do the games against United in the Europa last season not count?

We do this every time we lose a game. Its so frustrating... every loss entails a flood of "we need to change all these things" when in reality we just need to do the things we do better. Geggenpressing or not having a dedicated cdm or a new left back had zero influence on us conceding a goal in the 2nd minute at the weekend. That made Burnelys job so much easier and it attacked what is the biggest weakness in our team, mental strength. Klopp has mentioned it a ton of times already. You can't buy it either, you have to develop it in the training ground and on the pitch. It will take time...

K-9

This is quite a civilised meltdown in fairness.

5starpool

SuperTortoise wrote: »

The thing that worries me most about the weekend game is there are 18 managers that will have watched that game, and when it's their turn to play us that's the kind of gameplan they will go for.

Not being able to break down a team that parks the bus has been a problem for us for years, even in the Suarez era we found it hard.
The key is to get a goal early so they have to come out a bit, how to do that is the problem Klopp must solve.

The thing that worries me most is that those 18 managers will have known this anyhow even before our game given that we do the same thing multiple times every season. We are a team that is supposed to press really hard, but when teams do it to us we almost never cope well and almost always dither about, concede some crappy goals and rely on some individual brilliance to try and score against a basic defensive set up of 2 lines of 4.

I'm sick of it, it's been the same thing for years and years. Under Rafa we had the same problem scoring against these teams, but didn't lose as many of them as we were better at defending. Since then our loss rate in those games is disgracefully high.

Harry Palmr

Mr.H wrote: »

We have two defensive mids if we wanna use them. I just think we don't.

Also if you want to stop using gegenpressin it means you want a new manager.

You can't have it both ways. Klopp is the manager or he isn't

It has to be noted that Can is being eased in and Lucas is knocked, plus Stewart and Matip can play that role so it's not that there is no one to play as a defensive type midfielder rather none of them bar Stewart is fit to start. Hopefully tomorrow will see three of them in the squad - Can, Matip and Stewart.

Pyjamarama

https://tomkinstimes.com/2016/08/this-is-an-intervention-do-we-have-to-do-this-every-time/

boom.

Sappy404

Just a thought on the possible investment/buy-out. This isn't 'Liverpool's ship coming in at last', 'finally at the big boys' table' lark. We're talking about a world-famous club that is self-sufficient and breaking even on transfers while improving the squad the year TV money wen't astronomical. That's why there's so much interest.

Then there's the manager. Klopp doesn't want to break transfer records to assemble a team of ready-made players; he wants to coach a team and earn the just rewards. He has the ability to do this and the enthusiasm to do it at Liverpool for the next six years. Having someone like that already at the club, who's popular, well-spoken and talismanic to boot, is a huge asset.

Right now, we're more or less spending as much money as the manager wants us to spend. Anyone expecting any Chinese sugar daddies to take over, give some DoF a blank cheque to solve all our player woes and undermine a manager that is only too happy to see the club live within it's means is going to be disappointed IMO. Frankly I think Klopp would walk if a new owner insisted on overspending summer after summer.

Nerdlingr

Pyjamarama wrote: »

And why wasn't this the case at Dortmund then?? We've had plenty of games where we have closed the game out nicely under Klopp. Do the games against United in the Europa last season not count?

We do this every time we lose a game. Its so frustrating... every loss entails a flood of "we need to change all these things" when in reality we just need to do the things we do better. Geggenpressing or not having a dedicated cdm or a new left back had zero influence on us conceding a goal in the 2nd minute at the weekend. That made Burnelys job so much easier and it attacked what is the biggest weakness in our team, mental strength. Klopp has mentioned it a ton of times already. You can't buy it either, you have to develop it in the training ground and on the pitch. It will take time...

Quick look but dortmund had the likes of bender, gundogan, kehl at cdm. We've got Can, henderson and wijnaldum. Not exactly "sitters" are they?

We've also had plenty of games where we've left teams back into the game by poor game management...both by the players and the manager. Or do the games against Southampton, Norwich, Sunderland etc etc (or the latest one) Arsenal not count? So it goes both ways.

I'm not saying rip up the play book but have a look at what you can do to actually stop the opposition scoring. Buying, or utilising, a recognised CDM would be a start for when the situation needs or calls for it.

Pyjamarama

Nerdlingr wrote: »

Quick look but dortmund had the likes of bender, gundogan, kehl at cdm. We've got Can, henderson and wijnaldum. Not exactly "sitters" are they?

We've also had plenty of games where we've left teams back into the game by poor game management...both by the players and the manager. Or do the games against Southampton, Norwich, Sunderland etc etc (or the latest one) Arsenal not count? So it goes both ways.

I'm not saying rip up the play book but have a look at what you can do to actually stop the opposition scoring. Buying, or utilising, a recognised CDM would be a start for when the situation needs or calls for it.

But we already have that in Lucas and Stewart and I think Can can do that too.

Of course the other games count but my point is that we can do it with the players we have. These issues can be fixed on the training ground. We don't need better players to beat Burnely...

Agent Coulson

K-9 wrote: »

Based on what though? Genuinely interested to see what makes this different to other stories, the Echo piece seems to be a filler piece to be seen to write something on it.

These stories usually appear in Goal, Caughtoffside, 90mins etc sites like this.

This time it was broken in The Times & The Finacial Times and they are naming names in those stories who the Chinese side are and who they are using intermediary and the day before this all broke FSG released a statement saying they were looking to sell.

Put all of these together and there is more than likely moves been make to buy the club from China.

Nerdlingr

Pyjamarama wrote: »

But we already have that in Lucas and Stewart and I think Can can do that too.

Of course the other games count but my point is that we can do it with the players we have. These issues can be fixed on the training ground. We don't need better players to beat Burnely...

We have stewart and Lucas and Can but klopp doesnt use a sitter by the looks of it. I dont think Can can play that role anyway...he roams forward too much.
Thats why i said when the situation needs or calls for it. I'm not specifically talking about Burnley because we owned the ball and did f*ck all with it. More the games where we got 4-1 up (arsenal) 2-0 up (sunderland, newcastle, southampton) etc etc. Games where its ok to bring on a DM and close the game out. It seems to be all or nothing with us...and thats great for exciting heavy metal football...but its not gonna win you the league, its not gonna get you even close to top 4. We finished 8th last year with results all over the place. I hope Klopp sorts it out, cos when plan A doesnt work does he have a plan B?

ricero

Sappy404 wrote: »

Just a thought on the possible investment/buy-out. This isn't 'Liverpool's ship coming in at last', 'finally at the big boys' table' lark. We're talking about a world-famous club that is self-sufficient and breaking even on transfers while improving the squad the year TV money wen't astronomical. That's why there's so much interest.

Then there's the manager. Klopp doesn't want to break transfer records to assemble a team of ready-made players; he wants to coach a team and earn the just rewards. He has the ability to do this and the enthusiasm to do it at Liverpool for the next six years. Having someone like that already at the club, who's popular, well-spoken and talismanic to boot, is a huge asset.

Right now, we're more or less spending as much money as the manager wants us to spend. Anyone expecting any Chinese sugar daddies to take over, give some DoF a blank cheque to solve all our player woes and undermine a manager that is only too happy to see the club live within it's means is going to be disappointed IMO. Frankly I think Klopp would walk if a new owner insisted on overspending summer after summer.

Agree with nearly most of all you say there but i would still be open to a potential investment, not a full buy-out.

I would welcome FSG to remain majority shareholder but this potential Chinese investment could help us with building a brand new training facility, upgrading the anfield road end of the stadium and also helping us acquire new talent by being able to offer top wages.