Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours 2016/2017

~Rebel~

Milner really smashes his foot through those left foot crosses!

Pyjamarama

Just look at Mane, never taking the easy safe option... what a difference he makes to our attack. So excited by him.

tony1980

Firminho could be on a hat-trick already thanks to Mane attacking threat. Only 30 mins in but it is clear to see that the movement is much more fluid in attack with Origi, Mane and Firminho all playing at the same time!

NukaCola

Henderson picking up where he left off last week......really poor forward play....

~Rebel~

Would really actually prefer if Burton had a bit more snap in their play... they're just standing off, letting us have the ball until we get around their box. Not really much use for improving our defensive play under pressure.

Pyjamarama

Milners decision making is so slow when he's playing left back... odd as it doesn't seem to be the case when he's just playing wide left. He should have slipped that ball to Firmino about 2 seconds before he did.

LuckyLloyd

murpho999 wrote: »

I mentioned this before a while back and got shot down.

FSG got constant praise for saving the club, when the truth is that they got a great asset and trademark at a knockdown price and is now worth a lot more and will bring them a lot of profit.
Look at the money now that's being mentioned, £800m for a part share. That's a great return on a £300m investment.

Whilst they have been a safe pair of hands, they have not brought a winning methodology to the club. Transfer committees, sell to buy, loan deals, transfer targets falling through because of low ball bids have cost the club dearly and as a result we have won just one trophy in the last 6 years.

How people deem this a successful ownership is beyond me.

Best thing they have done is getting Klopp but how long will he hang around if he can't bring success.

Because people don't want to hear it. It's negative and depressing. It's also a testament to how grim the modern game is and people don't want to engage with that side of it bar throwing barbs at 'Chelski' or City under some misguided notion that they are less deserving of success. There was something genuinely lovely about the club we were in 2005, and us coming back from a relative oblivion to win the European Cup at that time was magical.

It's easy to get drawn into the quagmire of the last match; the last signing; the last time someone made an incorrect call on a player. And failing all that, just play the 'but what else should we expect?' card. FSG have had six years. We know what they're about at this stage. They are excellent at finance and revenue generation. They are less good at PR (though they've improved over time) and lower level detail and competency. They have overseen terrible transfer activity and of the six seasons during their tenure, only one could be described as excellent; with two more being decent but flawed. That's the overview.

They're not a charity either. They are doing this for money and the return they have garnered on their investment is the one inarguably magnificent thing about their tenure at the club. Maybe they like the club or the history it represents. But I know they love a good investment. That's what we are. That's how we're run. And we have a brand depth that can survive a decade more without a major title. Which has always been the key problem for me - the progression of their investment is not tightly coupled to the club's performance on the field.

I wonder what my younger self would have made it all. You get a bit older, nearly all the footballers you loved when you were capable of idolising a player retire, you take it all a little bit less personally.

This summer has been a failure. It has been unambitious, safe and has failed to take the squad where it needed to go. If Klopp is actually the one to blame for that then it will be a shame. But we've been ****ing up summer windows consistently under FSG across three different managers. Someone asked me the other day what I expect from Klopp. I expect him to oversee an improvement in performances and ultimately to establish the club back in the CL and be able to actually compete on multiple fronts during 55+ game seasons. There's no hard deadline on any of that, but there needs to be a feeling of general improvement in a macro sense.

Or to put it most simply: his reign as manager needs to feel better as a whole than FSG's tenure as owner.

~Rebel~

Pyjamarama wrote: »

Milners decision making is so slow when he's playing left back... odd as it doesn't seem to be the case when he's just playing wide left. He should have slipped that ball to Firmino about 2 seconds before he did.

I think its cause at wide left, he's looking inside the field on his right foot, whereas from left back, he's predominantly looking up the line and just isn't that comfortable using his left so slip it past their winger.

LuckyLloyd

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Would really actually prefer if Burton had a bit more snap in their play... they're just standing off, letting us have the ball until we get around their box. Not really much use for improving our defensive play under pressure.

Meh, it's going to be a comfortable win. No harm in that.

murpho999

murpho999 wrote: »

............

FSG got constant praise for saving the club, when the truth is that they got a great asset and trademark at a knockdown price and is now worth a lot more and will bring them a lot of profit.
Look at the money now that's being mentioned, £800m for a part share. That's a great return on a £300m investment............

FSG bought for £300m, the club is now worth £800m (ish, approx, rumoured, whatever). Unless they sell it or use the club as leverage to borrow money the actual value of it isn't really a factor on a day to day basis.

It's only profit if they sell some or all of it. If they sell all of it for £800m I can't see whoever buys it pumping loads of cash in too.

If FSG sell say 25% of the club for £200m they will quite likely take that money and than have 75% share for £100m initial investment and whatever else they have put in. The new shareholders might want to take an annual return from their share of the income rather than leave it in the club.

They, from what we can gather allow the club to sustain itself but also they've further invested in the stadium etc. As the club's revenue stream grows they should be able to slowly recoup all of their cash while the club spends decent wads on TFs & salaries (not amounts out of line with revenue of course).

At the value the club is now rumoured to be worth we might be better off for FSG to keep it rather than be bought out. We are in no way in a precarious financial position at the moment, that could change with new owners.

Osmosis Jones

Mané plays it to Lallana there and goes bolting ahead for the return, of course Lallana takes far too many touches and waits to long to give it back to him.

Pyjamarama

Klopp won't be happy with Origi there...

tempo gone out of the game completely. Not necessarily a bad thing. We could do with a nice comfortable win.

Osmosis Jones

I just hope he's not injured from that, always a horrible place to get caught

Pyjamarama

Stonewall peno. They have no idea how to handle Mane.

~Rebel~

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Meh, it's going to be a comfortable win. No harm in that.

True enough, but would have preferred just a little more of a test before we face the tenacity and work-rate of Spurs over the weekend.

NukaCola

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Someone asked me the other day what I expect from Klopp

You were happy when Klopp was appointed (I think) but reading that post I wonder why......He very obviously brought in who he wanted and this is how he operates, I dont know why you expected huge signings when Klopp doesn't tend to sign those kind of players......

I agree with your take on FSGs transfer strategy as a whole but this summer, which you already called a failure surprisingly, Klopp definitely brought in who he wanted.....it may not be sexy enough for you but you have to give Klopp a chance to build his own squad.

LuckyLloyd

NukaCola wrote: »

You were happy when Klopp was appointed (I think) but reading that post I wonder why......He very obviously brought in who he wanted and this is how he operates, I dont know why you expected huge signings when Klopp doesn't tend to sign those kind of players......

I agree with your take on FSGs transfer strategy as a whole but this summer, which you already called a failure surprisingly, Klopp definitely brought in who he wanted.....it may not be sexy enough for you but you have to give Klopp a chance to build his own squad.

People say that with such confidence. I wonder about it.

tony1980

Pyjamarama wrote: »

Stonewall peno. They have no idea how to handle Mane.

For the other chance, he started tripping over himself in the box and the keeper and both defenders were still afraid to come out to the ball, he strikes fear into defenders, exactly what we needed! Now if we could just get the same type of attacking threat on the left, we would be in a great position for the season if we are lucky with injuries.

marklazarcovic

still lacking decisive finishing off moves,lallana ,origi,firminho..all should have been more decisive ,need a ruthless touch

NukaCola

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

People say that with such confidence. I wonder about it.

Whats your alternative take on it? He's given the same lists that Rodgers got and he's making do? Or something in between?

Gbear

~Rebel~ wrote: »

How so? I was talking about our centre midfield, and how Can is the only one of our midfielders that would stand a chance at getting into Rafa's centre midfield squad. What doesn't make sense about that? We had a much better centre mid under Rafa than we do now, that is pretty much inarguable. Alonso, Mascherano, Gerrard, Sissoko (pre-eye problem).

Rafa's team had issues elsewhere, mostly in the support attacking positions. The spine through the middle was as strong as i've ever seen, but we had no quality either side of the striker. Which is why we didn't score as many goals as we could have. But that centre midfield had all the strength, solidity, and creativity that you could ever want.

Right, and that's well and good having those players but, for some reason, despite having those players, we had the same problems under Bentiez.
1-11 we were better, so it wasn't quite as pronounced, and we were certainly a lot better at not getting beaten, but our biggest issue in games like Burnley is what's going on up front.

We had the midfield sown up pretty early doors and arguably had the best midfield in the league every season between 05-06 and 08-09.
We only made headway with improvements in attacking positions.
Even so, they were the likes of Riera, Babel and Benayoun. They did their bit but they weren't good enough to go the distance.

TL;DR. The midfield doesn't matter.
We'll dick teams regardless if we have the firepower, and if we don't have the firepower, having the best midfielders in the world won't solve our problems, particularly given how much more aggressive and how much further up the pitch we play than Rafa's team.
You need midfield's like Rafa's Liverpool to go blow for blow with the genuinely top class teams. They shouldn't even enter into the conversation against the bottom 10.

Ferguson virtually gave up on midfield after Keane left. He still won.
We obsessed over our midfield and control under Rafa and never got the attackers and subsequently never won anything in the league.
The closest we've gotten is punting midfield and having 4 lads in front of them who can rip teams apart.
What else needs to happen before we cop onto this? A sign written in the stars from God saying "SORT YOUR ****ING ATTACK OUT!"?

jesus_thats_gre

NukaCola wrote: »

Whats your alternative take on it? He's given the same lists that Rodgers got and he's making do? Or something in between?

Who knows. It's too easy to think that he got everything he wanted.

Maybe he has majorly high opinion of himself and thinks he can make a major name for himself by having Liverpool competing on a budget. Maybe he is a stereotypical German and believe we should be very conservative in the market.

Talisman

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

They have overseen terrible transfer activity and of the six seasons during their tenure, only one could be described as excellent; with two more being decent but flawed.

Do you think the owners are responsible for the transfer activity?

NukaCola

NukaCola wrote: »

Whats your alternative take on it? He's given the same lists that Rodgers got and he's making do? Or something in between?

I'd imagine there are financial constraints being imposed, Benteke was on £140k/week iirc and signed for £32m, that was poor value no doubt but a year on with the TV money that we get our biggest signing is Mane who isn't on £140k/week or anywhere close to it.

Grujic, Matip, Klavan & Karius are all bargain basement, no doubt great value but when West Ham are after Bony and Crystal Palace give us £27m for Benteke you do look at our summer activity and scratch the head a bit when we have Milner lining up at LB ....

NukaCola

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Who knows. It's too easy to think that he got everything he wanted.

Maybe he has majorly high opinion of himself and thinks he can make a major name for himself by having Liverpool competing on a budget. Maybe he is a stereotypical German and believe we should be very conservative in the market.

I dont think he has that kind of an ego, but yea, I suppose we cant really know.

If he is operating similar to Rodgers I would worry though.

NukaCola

Augeo wrote: »

I'd imagine there are financial constraints being imposed

I have no doubt there are, but I'd like to think Klopp would get a player he'd really like if he wanted..........the LB thing still worries me........

Boom_Bap

Henderson is way too slow at reacting to what's happening around him at the moment.
That Matip chap is a big unit.

NukaCola

https://twitter.com/thisisanfield/status/768133510699909124

Anyone read this? Piss take?

citytillidie

Liverpool are doomed

http://www.joe.co.uk/sport/garth-crooks-wont-back-crazy-prediction-liverpools-season/81123

brevity

Liverpool have no chill.

5starpool

We'll need a 3rd to win this at this rate.

LuckyLloyd

Talisman wrote: »

Do you think the owners are responsible for the transfer activity?

I doubt John Henry himself is making transfer decisions. But they are hiring people responsible for the strategy and ultimately sign off on budgeting. Two consistent things under FSG:

- the value of the club climbs
- we do poorly in the transfer market

corwill

citytillidie wrote: »

Liverpool are doomed

http://www.joe.co.uk/sport/garth-crooks-wont-back-crazy-prediction-liverpools-season/81123

Garth Crooks is a complete helmet.

NukaCola

NukaCola wrote: »

......... Piss take?

With Lukaku staying you'd struggle to fathom why Everton would want Balotelli. You'd fear he recovered an element of form too, however unlikely that seems.

redzerdrog

I am starting to really like Lallana

NukaCola

Henderson is brutal......whats happened to him, has his injury effected him this badly?

DrumSteve

This game may as well be played in space, such is the lack of atmosphere

NukaCola

Goal from a corner! Wow!

Osmosis Jones

Too busy holding onto Origi to bother with the ball.

5starpool

That'll do.

NukaCola

5starpool wrote: »

We'll need a 3rd to win this at this rate.

Safe

citytillidie

continue to watch this or turn to laugh at Celtic implode or watch a Dundalk fight back

livinginkorea

Stream died on me just as the corner was taken

Pyjamarama

Osmosis Jones wrote: »

Too busy holding onto Origi to bother with the ball.

Yup would have been a peno in the prem if it wasn't an og.

ERG89

Where is Grujic?

Osmosis Jones

Of course something has to go wrong

NukaCola

Can is ****ed

5starpool

Can fúcked?

Fúck.

martyos121

The injury gods are really taking the piss now ffs.

Pyjamarama

Ah jaysus... Emre we need you.