Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours 2016/2017

One_Of_Shanks

FitzShane wrote: »

The LB debate is one that's very tired for me. It was obvious a number of weeks ago that we would not be signing another one, after Chilwell was not available, and Hector was over-priced.

For everyone that says there is a decent standard out there - please name the available LBs that would have moved. I cannot think of many.

Exactly. The ideal LB (for Klopp) wasn't there. So we wait.

He even said it himself, they were looking but the right man wasn't available.

KLOPP: If we would have found the perfect fit, with all the things around – it’s not about money, only playing style, defending skills, offensive skills, technical things – if we could have found this then you would have known because we would have made the transfer.”

NukaCola

FitzShane wrote: »

For everyone that says there is a decent standard out there - please name the available LBs that would have moved. I cannot think of many.

If only the club employed people whose job was to find these players......

Agent Coulson

NukaCola wrote: »

If only the club employed people whose job was to find these players......

They do and they didn't find one the manager wanted by the looks of it.

NukaCola

One_Of_Shanks wrote: »

Exactly. The ideal LB (for Klopp) wasn't there. So we wait.

He even said it himself, they were looking but the right man wasn't available.

KLOPP: If we would have found the perfect fit, with all the things around – it’s not about money, only playing style, defending skills, offensive skills, technical things – if we could have found this then you would have known because we would have made the transfer.”

So its the perfect player or we play a 30 year old in LB who hasn't really played there in his whole career?

There's a whole spectrum we are missing out on if thats the mentality........I'm not saying we need to make the best signing of all time I'm saying we need some kind of cover, surely theres a player our recruitment guys can find that can do the job better than Milner and/or Moreno? A loan deal if we dont want to commit, a loan to buy if we aren't sure about the "second choice" player etc

We aren't always going to get the ideal player.

NukaCola

Agent Coulson wrote: »

They do and they didn't find one the manager wanted by the looks of it.

Which I think is probably a mistake......I might be coming across annoyed etc but I'm really not.....if Klopp wants Moreno/Milner at LB until Jan at the earliest thats completely his call obviously. I and many others think its the wrong one and its not like he cant make a mistake.

Its his squad and I hope it works out.

Agent Coulson

NukaCola wrote: »

Which I think is probably a mistake......I might be coming across annoyed etc but I'm really not.....if Klopp wants Moreno/Milner at LB until Jan at the earliest thats completely his call obviously. I and many others think its the wrong one and its not like he cant make a mistake.

Its his squad and I hope it works out.

Well we can go back to the old way then where the manager blames everyone else for bringing players into the club except himself and not giving him the tools he needs.

5starpool

I see Watford are sending Jerome Sinclair on loan.

One_Of_Shanks

NukaCola wrote: »

So its the perfect player or we play a 30 year old in LB who hasn't really played there in his whole career?

There's a whole spectrum we are missing out on if thats the mentality........I'm not saying we need to make the best signing of all time I'm saying we need some kind of cover, surely theres a player our recruitment guys can find that can do the job better than Milner and/or Moreno? A loan deal if we dont want to commit, a loan to buy if we aren't sure about the "second choice" player etc

We aren't always going to get the ideal player.

It's the manager's call fella, if he would rather work with Milner at left back than bring in someone in on loan then why not?
He has obviously seen Milner in training and thought he can work there.

And perhaps he will.
We won't really know until we see him there for a good run of games.
But Klopp seems confident so we may as well give him the benefit of the doubt now because there's nothing gonna happen this side of January.

Boom_Bap

5starpool wrote: »

I see Watford are sending Jerome Sinclair on loan.

I had him in my fantasy football team at the start of the season, thought he would be a starter and would bag a consistent amount of goals throughout the season.

We have the likelyhood of very decent, entertaining football to look forward to, including how Milner at LB pans out.

Glad the transfer window is nearly over, next PL game will feel like a new chapter after the international break, players in the first team squad have a vote of confidence from Klopp in varying degrees. Competition for starting places and even sub appearances.

Win a few games, go on a run..... drop a pt or two here and there.... score goals, concede less...... fingers crossed

Chesty08

Smith is struggling to get into the Bournemoutg team and people are calling for him as LB cover. Really... Lads Klopp is obviously aiming higher.

Look at Spurs for example... Ben Davies & Trippier would both get into that team!

LuckyLloyd

Luckycharms_74 wrote: »

It's an opinion. One may not agree with it, but it's nowhere near as crazy as some people may suggest. To not invest in the squad this summer in light of the underlying context of the league (both in terms of a huge increase to revenues and an increased competitiveness around us) is what's crazy. And as I posted recently - if you step back it's very easy to conclude that our transfer dealings under FSG have been embarrassing. People get in the weeds. They blame managers / committees / context on a deal by deal basis. And that stuff plays its part, it's not irrelevant.

But the overarching result has been poor. That is inarguable. It is therefore not unreasonable to wish for a change in direction.

Nerdlingr

Gbear wrote: »

No it wasn't.

Since Rodgers took over in the main we've signed decent footballers.
That doesn't mean our business has been good, but we're not bringing in Koncheskys or Adams.

You can see how Aspas, Alberto and the likes get on in Spain that they're pretty good footballers.
Benteke is a proven goalscorer.
Markovic was being feted as one of the top young players in Europe.

With a manager wanting one thing and the scouts moving in a different direction our mix of signings was confused.

That should now be at an end.

Are the likes of Wijnaldum, Grujic, Klavan or what have you on a different level?
I don't see how you can make that argument. At the very least now though, they're being bought with some coherent idea of what they're here to do.

Benteke is the only ones of those players who I wouldnt call terrible just badly utilised alright. He a 15-20 goals scorer in the right team. The others are poor players, average at best. Alberto, Aspas, Markovic.... 20m we spent for markovic and he had one good game for us. The clowns who called them terrible were right in the end. They were terrible signings for liverpool.

Klavan is captain of his country with over 100 caps.
Wijnaldum is an international midfielder with a 1 in 4 goal scoring record.
Grujic has the makings of being a monster in midfield.

so....I'd most definitely say the likes of Klavan, Wijnaldum and Grujic are at a higher level the the three you mentioned.

NukaCola

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Well we can go back to the old way then where the manager blames everyone else for bringing players into the club except himself and not giving him the tools he needs.

I'm quite happy to let Klopp make his own calls. I'm fully onboard but if you're getting rid of fullbacks and not upgrading current ones, have a 30 year old Midfielder starting at LB and it blows up in your face I'll be a lot less sympathetic to his decision to not settle for a different player.

Buford T. Justice XIX

5starpool wrote: »

I see Watford are sending Jerome Sinclair on loan.

To Italy by any chance?:p

LuckyLloyd

Nerdlingr wrote: »

Benteke is the only ones of those players who I wouldnt call terrible just badly utilised alright. He a 15-20 goals scorer in the right team. The others are poor players, average at best. Alberto, Aspas, Markovic.... 20m we spent for markovic and he had one good game for us. The clowns who called them terrible were right in the end. They were terrible signings for liverpool.

Klavan is captain of his country with over 100 caps.
Wijnaldum is an international midfielder with a 1 in 4 goal scoring record.
Grujic has the makings of being a monster in midfield.

so....I'd most definitely say the likes of Klavan, Wijnaldum and Grujic are at a higher level the the three you mentioned.

Don't do it to yourself. Klavan is probably an average player based on his career and price. Maybe he's some diamond in the rough with untapped potential.

Wijnaldum has been in the EPL a year, he's okay.

These signings will probably fail to be overly successful, but they're not CL level players so that's okay.

jcsoulinger

We had Flanno as a makeshift LB back in 14, and he worked out very well, Milner could be very solid there yet. Either way Klopp is happier to go with Milner than sign someone who isn't ticking all the boxes and that's fine with me.

NukaCola

One_Of_Shanks wrote: »

It's the manager's call fella

Well, I did say that a number of times already :P

I'm happy if it is Klopps decision but I have my concerns and if it blows up in his face I wont be rushing to defend his reluctance to bring in a LB.

Agent Coulson

NukaCola wrote: »

I'm quite happy to let Klopp make his own calls. I'm fully onboard but if you're getting rid of fullbacks and not upgrading current ones, have a 30 year old Midfielder starting at LB and it blows up in your face I'll be a lot less sympathetic to his decision to not settle for a different player.

We are clearing out close to 20 players this summer in one way or another most of whom were bought for the sake of buying a player.

Do we need a left back or cover for a left back? yes! We also need one for right back.

But buying a player for the sake of filling a position is the wrong way to do it if he isn't the player the manager wants or needs.

jcsoulinger

jcsoulinger wrote: »

We had Flanno as a makeshift LB back in 14, and he worked out very well, Milner could be very solid there yet. Either way Klopp is happier to go with Milner than sign someone who isn't ticking all the boxes and that's fine with me.

Isn't Flanno a FB by trade though?

Agent Coulson

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Don't do it to yourself. Klavan is probably an average player based on his career and price. Maybe he's some diamond in the rough with untapped potential.

Wijnaldum has been in the EPL a year, he's okay.

These signings will probably fail to be overly successful, but they're not CL level players so that's okay.

And we haven't been a CL club for the best part of a decade so expecting CL type players is kidding ourselves.

5starpool

At this point I'm more than happy enough to just trust that Klopp knows what he is doing and give him time. If we finish this season on 60 points in 7th or something though it would be concerning, but I'd judge things on their merits if we get to that stage.

NukaCola

Agent Coulson wrote: »

We are clearing out close to 20 players this summer in one way or another most of whom were bought for the sake of buying a player.

Do we need a left back or cover for a left back? yes! We also need one for right back.

But buying a player for the sake of filling a position is the wrong way to do it if he isn't the player the manager wants or needs.

I wont say more on it as I've already agreed with you. If Klopp cant find a player he likes at LB and wants to use Milner then fine, I think I said it a lot at this stage.

The right player at the moment is the player thats better than Moreno.......cant be hard to find IMO but again not my call obviously........I hope it works out.

jcsoulinger

Augeo wrote: »

Isn't Flanno a FB by trade though?

More precisely hes a right back by trade tho

NukaCola

5starpool wrote: »

At this point I'm more than happy enough to just trust that Klopp knows what he is doing and give him time. If we finish this season on 60 points in 7th or something though it would be concerning, but I'd judge things on their merits if we get to that stage.

Summed up what I've been trying to say but poorly basically.....

NukaCola

jcsoulinger wrote: »

We had Flanno as a makeshift LB back in 14, and he worked out very well, Milner could be very solid there yet. Either way Klopp is happier to go with Milner than sign someone who isn't ticking all the boxes and that's fine with me.

jcsoulinger wrote: »

More precisely hes a right back by trade tho

Well, theres a world of difference between being a RB and moving to LB than being a Midfielder and going back to LB but I get your point.....

jcsoulinger

jcsoulinger wrote: »

More precisely hes a right back by trade tho

To be fair I would think it's easier to make a makeshift LB from a RB than from a 30 year old midfielder than has never played as a defender but that's nothing more than opinion and I can't back it up with anything

Anyway, as we are going with Milner and Moreno I do hope that we can accept that not every goal conceded that originates from the LB position is actually one of their fault, the spirit of that's football should be embraced

murpho999

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

It's an opinion. One may not agree with it, but it's nowhere near as crazy as some people may suggest. To not invest in the squad this summer in light of the underlying context of the league (both in terms of a huge increase to revenues and an increased competitiveness around us) is what's crazy. And as I posted recently - if you step back it's very easy to conclude that our transfer dealings under FSG have been embarrassing. People get in the weeds. They blame managers / committees / context on a deal by deal basis. And that stuff plays its part, it's not irrelevant.

But the overarching result has been poor. That is inarguable. It is therefore not unreasonable to wish for a change in direction.

I disagreed with the poster saying that the window has been mediocre which it hasn’t as we have some upgrades. However, I have suggested in the past that FSG are not investing in the team as they should despite the record revenues from TV this season but I got shot down here.

“They saved the club”
“They paid off the debt”
“They built a new stand”
“They signed Klopp”
“Klopp doesn’t want bigger signings”

All rubbish, they are making a lot of money out of their £300m investment, which despite what many people think, included the debts. They now have a club worth over a £1bn.

They have now given us a negative net spend transfer window this summer which is shocking. Not one world class player chased after and I refuse to believe that Klopp would refuse to have one in the squad like many posters here say.

FSG have done a great job into convincing people that the 9th wealthiest club in the world has no money and cannot afford to compete, it’s totally bizarre.

dogbert27

Flannagan did this from left back

Nerdlingr

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Don't do it to yourself. Klavan is probably an average player based on his career and price. Maybe he's some diamond in the rough with untapped potential.

Wijnaldum has been in the EPL a year, he's okay.

These signings will probably fail to be overly successful, but they're not CL level players so that's okay.

Well the question was are the newer players any better than what we had before...

Klavan has 112 caps for his country. I dont expect him to be 'overly' successful because he was bought as 3rd choice centre back but if he performs to a good standard then thats what he was bought for, and thats good enough for me.
But to be captain and have that many caps for your country seems to imply that maybe here's a half decent player in there. I know this much though ...He's a better defender than aspas a striker or alberto a midfielder.

One_Of_Shanks

Augeo wrote: »

To be fair I would think it's easier to make a makeshift LB from a RB than from a 30 year old midfielder than has never played as a defender

Let's be fair here, Milner HAS played as a full-back for Man City a few times, he even started a friendly for England at right-back, he's played in various positions throughout his career so it's not that big a jump for him to play left back seeing as he has already proven how versatile he is.

I'm not sure why people keep mentioning the fact that he's 30, if anything it means he's more experienced at reading the game. I'd rather have an experienced player playing a new position than a whipper snapper trying a new position, personally.
Experience can dig you out of a few holes quicker than a lack of.

murpho999

Agent Coulson wrote: »

And we haven't been a CL club for the best part of a decade so expecting CL type players is kidding ourselves.

Chelsea and Utd don't have that problem this season.

This is the stuff that annoys me, people just come up with reasons as to why LFC can't compete but it doesn't affect other clubs.

The expectation levels have been successfully lowered and failure is to be expected and top 6 finishes deemed a success.

Bandana boy

The left back conundrum is very obvious and is a very hard point for the Klopp apologists to argue but I feel people are focusing too much on it.

We look like we have missed an opportunity to tackle our Centre Half problem and Central Midfield too.

You could argue having seen the impact of Mane on one wing we should have addressed the other wing too.

I hope all our signings work out , but I am not confident in any of them bar Mane.

I don't claim to know more than Klopp or to even know that this is a result of his leadership or the owners but I am thoroughly underwhelmed by our summer signings , and feel we have let all our rivals for Top 4 steal a march on us.

Nerdlingr

One_Of_Shanks wrote: »

Let's be fair here, Milner HAS played as a full-back for Man City a few times, he even started a friendly for England at right-back, he's played in various positions throughout his career so it's not that big a jump for him to play left back seeing as he has already proven how versatile he is.

Did ya not watch the spurs game the last day ? He was lost with balls played over his head all day. He's a right footed midfielder playing in a position he's never played in before. I hope it doesnt come back to bite us/klopp in the @ss this season, but its a big risk playing him at LB.

Harry Palmr

Balotelli to Nice for 3.75m with sell on clause apparently.

NukaCola

One_Of_Shanks wrote: »

Let's be fair here, Milner HAS played as a full-back for Man City a few times, he even started a friendly for England at right-back, he's played in various positions throughout his career so it's not that big a jump for him to play left back seeing as he has already proven how versatile he is.

Doesn't mean he can be our first choice LB though..........filling in is fine in friendlys and for a few minutes in a game here or there, being a starter is different. Klopp knows what he's getting so lets hope its enough.

One_Of_Shanks

Nerdlingr wrote: »

Did ya not watch the spurs game the last day ? He was lost with balls played over his head all day. He's a right footed midfielder playing in a position he's never played in before. I hope it doesnt come back to bite us/klopp in the @ss this season, but its a big risk playing him at LB.

Yes, I saw the game, thanks. I saw one bad mistake by Milner and an equally bad one by Clyne.

Milner is gonna be under the spotlight more but people should be fair when talking about that Spurs game as Clyne's ball watching for the goal was probably worse than Milner's error imo.

You've also got to give the fella a run of games there before getting on his back.

NukaCola

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Balotelli to Nice for 3.75m with sell on clause apparently.

We actually got a fee? Wow....

One_Of_Shanks

One_Of_Shanks wrote: »

Let's be fair here, Milner HAS played as a full-back for Man City a few times, he even started a friendly for England at right-back, he's played in various positions throughout his career so it's not that big a jump for him to play left back seeing as he has already proven how versatile he is............

In comparison to Flanagan I think the point was made.

redzerdrog

Kerrigooney wrote: »

I know it's early days and maybe he's being played out of position but to my eyes swapping Wijnaldum for Joe Allen looks like an awful mistake.

We know Joe was not up to the required standard, we are yet to find out if Wijnaldum is or isn't but at least it is possible

One_Of_Shanks

NukaCola wrote: »

Doesn't mean he can be our first choice LB though...........

Doesn't mean he can't either.

People seem to be making up their minds before he's even had a run there.

Look, I'm not 100% sure this will work out, nor can anyone else be 100% sure that it won't.

But Klopp feels confident that it will so that's good enough for me, we shall see in time.

Knex*

~Rebel~ wrote: »

yup, would be surprised if he doesn't score against us this season.

Said before that if he's fit, I think he'll outscore any of our strikers.

He's right in saying he didn't fit, but he's far from a bad player.

One_Of_Shanks

Augeo wrote: »

In comparison to Flanagan I think the point was made.

No, I meant the bit where you said "a 30 year old who never played as a defender before".
But he has.

Anyway, no biggie, screw this left back debate, lets just celebrate the fact that we found a club mental enough to actually pay money for Balotelli.

It's nice to be Nice

One_Of_Shanks

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Balotelli to Nice for 3.75m with sell on clause apparently.

Happy Christmas everyone!

ERG89

murpho999 wrote: »

Chelsea and Utd don't have that problem this season.

This is the stuff that annoys me, people just come up with reasons as to why LFC can't compete but it doesn't affect other clubs.

The expectation levels have been successfully lowered and failure is to be expected and top 6 finishes deemed a success.

It's a nasty habit but you can persuade players to come without Champions League football. You can even do it if they are at teams in the CL. We have a terrible record in the transfer market though so we can justify not buying.
We're prepared to have a go at getting in the top 4 but realistically we probably won't get it, we just haven't improved the starting XI enough. We made nice money from transfers but that was more recovering past mistakes rather than adding funds.

breffni bogballer

Harry Palmr wrote:

Balotelli to Nice for 3.75m with sell on clause apparently.

NukaCola wrote:

We actually got a fee? Wow....

Proof,if it was needed that transfer day is ridiculous. Well played fsg/transfer committee

Gbear

5starpool wrote: »

At this point I'm more than happy enough to just trust that Klopp knows what he is doing and give him time. If we finish this season on 60 points in 7th or something though it would be concerning, but I'd judge things on their merits if we get to that stage.

Giving him time means support, so like I said a few days ago, he has that near unanimously.

There's a long-term game we're not privy to here.
If Klopp is going for some kind of slam-dunk at LB then overcomitting to players in that position now wouldn't make sense.
Fair enough.

But it feels like there's a pragmatic compromise to be had there.
We're a bit more sensitive to this than others might be or we would be if it was at RB.
We tend to play with very little width on the left and nobody in the squad seems capable of providing it.
Even so, it's probably not the end of the world, but I don't think we're ultimately a great side overall, I think we're very vulnerable to injuries to Mane and Can in particular and leaving something to chance like this just frustrates me immensely.

My sense is that we have among the worst LB options in the top 12. We don't need to have the best, but I don't think anything negative would come from addressing the position in some way.

Glico Man

NukaCola wrote: »

No, someone who can be a backup but can actually pass the ball and defend.....

Enrique can. Have you not witnessed his Fifa skillz. He can pass the ball, defend and score! He's l33t!

Agent Coulson

murpho999 wrote: »

Chelsea and Utd don't have that problem this season.

This is the stuff that annoys me, people just come up with reasons as to why LFC can't compete but it doesn't affect other clubs.

The expectation levels have been successfully lowered and failure is to be expected and top 6 finishes deemed a success.

Utd are the richest club in the world and have been blowing money for fun over the last 3 seasons to prove it.

Chelsea have bought what 2 players this summer.

To say Liverpool don't spend money in the transfer market is wrong FSG have spent to guts of half a billion on players since they arrived most of those players have been the wrong players and now we have a manager who wants to buy the right players and and people give out FSG still can't win.

BullBlackNova

So that's Luis Alberto and Andre Wisdom gone, Mario Balotelli shuffling towards the door (I bet he f*cking trips and unplugs the fax machine...)

Lazar Markovic linked with Sporting and Newcastle, but nothing materialising yet.

Mamadou Sakho rejecting loan bids from Stoke, WBA and Besiktas.

Tiago Ilori the subject of loan bids from two sides but the club want a permanent deal so he looks set to stay in the reserves for the season (Daily Mail reporting that one).

Is that everyone?