Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours 2016/2017

5starpool

124 years ago today Liverpool played their first game, an 8-0 win against Higher Walton. It is also the birthday of my favourite person in the world. Best day ever. Apart from the crappy weather.

martyos121

5starpool wrote: »

124 years ago today Liverpool played their first game, an 8-0 win against Higher Walton. It is also the birthday of my favourite person in the world. Best day ever. Apart from the crappy weather.

Olof Mellberg is some legend alright.

sword1

5starpool wrote: »

124 years ago today Liverpool played their first game, an 8-0 win against Higher Walton. It is also the birthday of my favourite person in the world. Best day ever. Apart from the crappy weather.

Happy birthday star

5starpool

It's also Gerrard Houllier's birthday I believe. He isn't my favourite person in the world though.

Turtyturd

I thought your favourite person was born 124 years ago today.


Mike65.

Never forget.

Buford T. Justice XIX

https://twitter.com/LFCTV/status/772086913289244672

On this day in 1912, the great Elisha Scott joined Liverpool.

Osmosis Jones

Oh no.

https://twitter.com/FinallyMario/status/772114549424189441?s=09

Riesen_Meal

Himself and Sakho have the same agent don't they?

This could get nasty...

NukaCola

That reply is just like his career at the moment......

NukaCola

Fieldog wrote: »

Himself and Sakho have the same agent don't they?

This could get nasty...

How? Its not like he owns them and they do as he says......Sakho is nowhere near the bellend Mario is but if he takes advice from a guy who ruined his career then off with him.

Grayditch

Jaysus, he really creeps out of that photo on ya.

NukaCola

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgPmeqXUC4s

Goals we conceded against Huddersfield.....

Agent Coulson

Good to see Manninger keeping up the goalkeeper howler tradition.

Harry Palmr

What the **** was Manninger at there?

garra

garra wrote: »

.......
I fear we will not be controlling enough in midfield this season to really challenge for the title, this is where we will fall short.

It'll be a big factor possibly but if it's only a factor in not actually challenging for the title than that's a big improvment on 8th of last year and the 6th place finish the season before

You don't need a controlling midfield to implement effective Gegenpressing so that's possibly why we are where we are in midfield.

The problem is as seen v Burnley Gegenpressing is null and void when we have the ball (obviously ). The opposition can of course implement Gegenpressing themselves if it suits them & there are many teams that have decent enough ballplayers at the back to cope with gegenpressing. Those that don't can play hoof ball to challenge our own deep CMs and defense.

My fear is that gegenpressing as a concept isn't that hard to attempt to implement but not many teams or coaches bother their hole doing it.... I don't know why but it's slight worry to me.

tinpib

Harry Palmr wrote: »

What the **** was Manninger at there?

The one or two times out of ten something like that works no one bats an eyelid, but the 8 or 9 times out of 10 that you fcuk it up you end up looking like a clown.

Turtyturd

Balotelli obviously never watched Carragher, the only player never to make one mistake in his career. Probably a bit lenient on him personally though, I would say more but I am sure there's someone lurking who will be upset on Carragher's behalf if I do.

corwill

Harry Palmr wrote: »

What the **** was Manninger at there?

It's OK, Acterberg will improve him no end.

NukaCola

Turtyturd wrote: »

Balotelli obviously never watched Carragher, the only player never to make one mistake in his career. Probably a bit lenient on him personally though, I would say more but I am sure there's someone lurking who will be upset on Carragher's behalf if I do.

In fairness, Mario should have had a go back at Carra, bit of banter and all that but it was a really lame attempt.......shooting from the half way line versus Spurs lame.......

NukaCola

James Pearce wading in....

https://twitter.com/JamesPearceEcho/status/772127772168904704

mosstin

NukaCola wrote: »

How? Its not like he owns them and they do as he says......Sakho is nowhere near the bellend Mario is but if he takes advice from a guy who ruined his career then off with him.

Grayditch wrote: »

Jaysus, he really creeps out of that photo on ya.

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Good to see Manninger keeping up the goalkeeper howler tradition.

Harry Palmr wrote: »

What the **** was Manninger at there?

Augeo wrote: »

It'll be a big factor possibly but if it's only a factor in not actually challenging for the title than that's a big improvment on 8th of last year and the 6th place finish the season before

You don't need a controlling midfield to implement effective Gegenpressing so that's possibly why we are where we are in midfield.

The problem is as seen v Burnley Gegenpressing is null and void when we have the ball (obviously ). The opposition can of course implement Gegenpressing themselves if it suits them & there are many teams that have decent enough ballplayers at the back to cope with gegenpressing. Those that don't can play hoof ball to challenge our own deep CMs and defense.

My fear is that gegenpressing as a concept isn't that hard to attempt to implement but not many teams or coaches bother their hole doing it.... I don't know why but it's slight worry to me.

Turtyturd wrote: »

Balotelli obviously never watched Carragher, the only player never to make one mistake in his career. Probably a bit lenient on him personally though, I would say more but I am sure there's someone lurking who will be upset on Carragher's behalf if I do.

tinpib wrote: »

The one or two times out of ten something like that works no one bats an eyelid, but the 8 or 9 times out of 10 that you fcuk it up you end up looking like a clown.

corwill wrote: »

It's OK, Acterberg will improve him no end.

Posting like this during an international break is the online equivalent of being the last man off the training pitch. Chapeau to you all.

mosstin

https://twitter.com/jacklusby_/status/772159375398019072

Mané possibly off injured this evening. Unconfirmed but very frustrating if true.

Harry Palmr

Ah sure it's what we expect if it's true.

eyerer

ffs....

eyerer

*double post* oops

BorneTobyWilde

Carragher scored more goals for Liverpool than Balotelli ever did.

Agent Coulson

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Carragher scored more goals for Liverpool than Balotelli ever did.

He scored more own goals against Liverpool as well that Mario scored for Liverpool.

Carra Liverpool goals scored 5

Carra own goals 7.

Mario Liverpool goals 4.

Still love Mario the guy just glad he is now playing football somewhere else.

Harry Palmr

Sadio Mane withdrawn with minor injury as Senegal seal 2-0 win over Namibia This Is Anfield 22:24
Precaution? Liverpool’s Sadio Mane comes off injured in Senegal match 101 Great Goals 22:17

.

K-9

NukaCola wrote: »

Thats the problem with how we define an assist.

1 of his assist is a one-two with Coutinho against Dortmund where Coutinho is being closed down by 2 defenders and smacks it from 20 yards out. Another assist is Milner squared a ball to Moreno who shoots from 30 yards and goes bottom corner. Another is he passed a ball to Lallana who then runs 20 yards before hitting it from 30 yards into the net. Another is he squares the ball to Firmino who shoots from 20+ yards and scores.

Thats 4 "assists" that were normal passes, the goals were made by the scorers....

I'm not trying to be harsh on Milner, he did have some good assists but some are really all down to the scorer, and thats a problem with the assist stat in general.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8UngIFbP34

It's the same for everybody so evens out I suppose.

martyos121

K-9 wrote: »

It's the same for everybody so evens out I suppose.

Don't say that to the Özil worshippers, they'll tear your head off, but not before making you watch a 20 minute YT video of every touch he had in a game against Watford.

LuckyLloyd

Milner's return pass to Coutinho for the Dortmund goal is class by the way. Seems harsh if we're holding assists like that against players!!

Riesen_Meal

Hmm, doesn't look good judging by this potatocam from the stands :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoJWPnJqRmk

Harry Palmr

He walked off, that's good enough for me!

Riesen_Meal

Harry Palmr wrote: »

He walked off, that's good enough for me!

He still has 2 legs, be grand like....

NukaCola

K-9 wrote: »

It's the same for everybody so evens out I suppose.

Yea but its not an accurate goal creation stat in isolation, thats my only point really....

Harry Palmr

Fieldog wrote: »

He still has 2 legs, be grand like....

NukaCola

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Milner's return pass to Coutinho for the Dortmund goal is class by the way. Seems harsh if we're holding assists like that against players!!

I'm just saying the return pass to Coutinho, who was being closed down by two defenders 20 yards out before he puts it top corner its hardly putting it on the plate for Coutinho........unlike some of his other assists, as I said since the point was the assist stat is not an accurate stat of goal creation in isolation.

I have no idea how you came to the conclusion that I'm holding that particular assist against him? Do you mean he deserves the assist for participating in a one-two with a player who done all the work? I just would not agree with you if thats the case.

Maybe because you see assists different to me which is a whole different discussion, but when people throw up Milners assists for example and use it as a way to say he directly set up "x" amount of goals then its false, as it is for many players.

And I realize its probably the best way to statistically represent what an assist is however its not the full story, like most stats in general.....

lenny palmer

For me it's still an assist. Without it the goal scorer cannot score. It does not matter if it's a 2 yard tap in or a 30 yard worldie

NukaCola

lenny palmer wrote: »

For me it's still an assist. Without it the goal scorer cannot score. It does not matter if it's a 2 yard tap in or a 30 yard worldie

So what about the other build up play? Why does the last person to touch the ball to the scorer get the credit?

Lets say Coutinho takes it past 3 players, passes to Firmino who plays a simple pass to Sturridge who scores from 30 yards. Should Coutinho not also get the credit because without him there would be no goal? And where do we then draw the line, lots of things need to happen before a goal scorer scores but not all can be classified as an assist.

Its probably the best metric we have to measure an assist but not accurate IMO.

Harry Palmr

BT Sport at 2.15 PM KO England U20 v Brazil U20 Allan Starts

Gbear

Personally I think some of Carra's twittering is a bit small time and generally fairly ****e.

He had no need to open his gob.

He's not wrong and he probably loathes Balotelli for how little he put into playing for Liverpool, so it's probably a lot tamer than it might have been, but there's still no real need for this "banter" guff he goes on with.

marklazarcovic

when one kyle walker isnt enough for you like

Harry Palmr

Allan Report.....Allan Report.....Allan Report

Playing as the DM in front of the back 4. He's probably the shortest player in the pitch - there ain't that much of him esp compared to his keeper (6'5")! Has sought to keep it tidy, press the player in possession and get a foot in, short passing, and a yellow card for chit chat after a throw in - not sure if it was a foul throw or if it was in fact an England ball as had eyes elsewhere at that moment.

Subbed on 56 mins. Good game in an unglamourous position.

BullBlackNova

NukaCola wrote: »

So what about the other build up play? Why does the last person to touch the ball to the scorer get the credit?

Lets say Coutinho takes it past 3 players, passes to Firmino who plays a simple pass to Sturridge who scores from 30 yards. Should Coutinho not also get the credit because without him there would be no goal? And where do we then draw the line, lots of things need to happen before a goal scorer scores but not all can be classified as an assist.

Its probably the best metric we have to measure an assist but not accurate IMO.

This, in a nutshell, sums up my issue with the current trend of stats-based analysis of football. It's ripped directly from US sports which, in some cases, are a lot more linear in terms of the provider/converter relationship.

I remember an absolutely superb goal scored by Sturridge a few seasons back. Long pass from Gerrard from about 30/40 yards, Coutinho stepped over the ball to confuse the defender and Sturridge slots home. Gerrard gets the assist because Coutinho didn't touch the ball, but his involvement was as, if not more, important IMO.

You then have fans lapping up this obsession with tangible performance factors and ignoring elements like movement and space creation, passing before the final ball, etc. Players like Adam Lallana are then castigated - "sure he only got 3 assists all year" - eventhough their role may be critically important in the overall play. Every team has players like this, many more than one player, Lallana just popped into my head off the bat - not an intention to start a debate about his role/contribution.

Football is, inherently, too complex a sport to break into conventional statistics. At times it tells the story, on many other occasions it doesn't.

James Milner's importance to Liverpool's play was emphasised by his assists after Christmas, but it's not all he does. The same goes for Ozil for Arsenal, Mahrez for Leicester and Fabregas for Chelsea.

Tl/dr: Football is too complicated to base an entire view of a player on assists and goals.

8-10

BullBlackNova wrote: »

This, in a nutshell, sums up my issue with the current trend of stats-based analysis of football. It's ripped directly from US sports which, in some cases, are a lot more linear in terms of the provider/converter relationship.

I remember an absolutely superb goal scored by Sturridge a few seasons back. Long pass from Gerrard from about 30/40 yards, Coutinho stepped over the ball to confuse the defender and Sturridge slots home. Gerrard gets the assist because Coutinho didn't touch the ball, but his involvement was as, if not more, important IMO.

You then have fans lapping up this obsession with tangible performance factors and ignoring elements like movement and space creation, passing before the final ball, etc. Players like Adam Lallana are then castigated - "sure he only got 3 assists all year" - eventhough their role may be critically important in the overall play. Every team has players like this, many more than one player, Lallana just popped into my head off the bat - not an intention to start a debate about his role/contribution.

Football is, inherently, too complex a sport to break into conventional statistics. At times it tells the story, on many other occasions it doesn't.

James Milner's importance to Liverpool's play was emphasised by his assists after Christmas, but it's not all he does. The same goes for Ozil for Arsenal, Mahrez for Leicester and Fabregas for Chelsea.

Tl/dr: Football is too complicated to base an entire view of a player on assists and goals.

Chances created is a much better gauge of an individual player in midfield than assists. Main issue I have with the stat is that an assist is dependant on the other player putting it away, as well as being credited when the assisting player didn't create the chance they were just the last to touch it

Stats can definitely work in soccer. Just needs to mature a bit more

BullBlackNova

8-10 wrote: »

Chances created is a much better gauge of an individual player in midfield than assists. Main issue I have with the stat is that an assist is dependant on the other player putting it away, as well as being credited when the assisting player didn't create the chance they were just the last to touch it

Stats can definitely work in soccer. Just needs to mature a bit more

Absolutely - my own post was probably a bit naive in dismissing them entirely.

As I said, I feel like in its current guise, someone just took a loose format and tried to apply it directly to football, despite it not fitting properly.

In general, current football analysis bugs me a little, though. I tend not to watch pre and post-match coverage on Sky, RTE, etc. Have lost count of the amount of times I've watched a game and entirely disagreed with a pundit's opinion. Sure, I might be wrong, but most 'fans' just swallow what they're given with no thought themselves - not the way to go IMO.

ShamoBuc

Skrtel sent off. He could have gone earlier. He really is a headless chicken. Great to be rid of him if I'm honest.

mosstin

ShamoBuc wrote: »

Skrtel sent off. He could have gone earlier. He really is a headless chicken. Great to be rid of him if I'm honest.

He should have had two yellows and a straight red, in truth. Absolutely ridiculous. And he's captaining them.

Agent Coulson

Sturridge is lucky Skrtel is off the pitch or I could see a crash bang wallop happening and 3 months out.

x43r0

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Allan Report.....Allan Report.....Allan Report

Playing as the DM in front of the back 4. He's probably the shortest player in the pitch - there ain't that much of him esp compared to his keeper (6'5")! Has sought to keep it tidy, press the player in possession and get a foot in, short passing, and a yellow card for chit chat after a throw in - not sure if it was a foul throw or if it was in fact an England ball as had eyes elsewhere at that moment.

Subbed on 56 mins. Good game in an unglamourous position.

Can't wait for this lad to break through to the first team. If ever there was a ready made chant

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQ8kXlsme4c