Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours 2016/2017

8-10

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Kante was cheaper than Mane. I know which will be the better signing.

Does that include wages? What is Mané on?

I think they're going to end up costing about the same or Mané might be slightly more because of higher wages, but then not sure we know the respective sign-on fees

Knex*

As long as we have the TPS Reports done by Sunday, we should be fine.

Vicxas

Looks like Gabriel is out for Arsenal against us,

Could be a bit of a defensive crisis for them.

5starpool

Where are you getting the £89m figure from Lloyd? I've seen figures from £100m up to £120m including agents fees, but nothing that low.

Either way, are you suggesting that we should be competing with Utd for signatures like that? Seriously? You've jumped so far over the shark that you can't even see the water anymore if that is the case.

If we were to make a signing like that it would instantly be all our budget for that window, never mind paying more than twice a week what we have previously paid anyone else. Like it or lump it, we take in far less money than Utd do.

Knex*

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Kante was cheaper than Mane. I know which will be the better signing.

Doesn't really resolve the fact that he wanted to join Chelsea, however.

murpho999 wrote: »

How is a World Record signing a typical Utd signing?

I think he means there is a clear and growing trend of United splashing big in the transfer window. He's right, if that's the case, but we do not have the revenue streams that United have to match that money.

However, it does largely prove that CL football isn't the predominant factor in signing top players, its simply money. CL football will inevitably follow the money, for the most part.

Kimbot

Knex. wrote: »

Doesn't really resolve the fact that he wanted to join Chelsea, however.



I think he means there is a clear and growing trend of United splashing big in the transfer window. He's right, if that's the case, but we do not have the revenue streams that United have to match that money.

However, it does largely prove that CL football isn't the predominant factor in signing top players, its simply money. CL football will inevitably follow the money, for the most part.

I think the 89mil pogba to UTD is typical is because look at what they spent on ferdinand/rooney etc years ago. They overpaid at the start for players that could be world class and pogba would be the same, he is not worth 89mill now but he will be if he keeps progressing.

MD1990

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Kante was cheaper than Mane. I know which will be the better signing.

And who was Kante playing for just 2 seasons ago?
If we signed Kante last summer you would have been saying but look Man Utd got Schweinsteiger & Schneiderlein.

NukaCola

Knex. wrote: »

I think he means there is a clear and growing trend of United splashing big in the transfer window.

Spending big hasn't really worked out as well as they would have expected either.......

rob316

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

At some point, that becomes the problem. Pogba for £89m is becoming an increasingly typical Utd signing.

Bottom line is I'm not criticising the coach or saying our squad is terrible, etc. I'm merely looking at what's happened since we last kicked a competitive ball and I can't find a case for optimism in a relative sense. Definitely not in terms of our transfer dealings relative to our rivals anyway. I'm crossing my fingers that Klopp still retains magical properties as a coach and motivater, but to "expect" top four within our current context equates to an unreasonable level of faith in his abilities.

To be fair your rarely do before a ball is kicked. You've been very wrong before good chance you will be again.

United will be right up there with the manager they have brought in and the caliber of signings no doubt but we are no mugs, we proved it last season time and again.

rob316

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Kante was cheaper than Mane. I know which will be the better signing.

Great, give the football a miss so you know who will be the better signing already.

Its the same nonsense out of you every summer in here, putting down anyone with a shred of optimism, spreading your pessimism. Buy HULK, Buy FALCAO, look at who united are signing, look at who spurs signed. Big names do not guarantee success when are people going to realize that. Look at who the top player in the league were last season - Vardy, Mahrez, Delle Ali, Kante - all bought for a pittance.

Umaro

Compilation of all the preseason goals:

JakeArmitage

I think Mane is going to be very good for you this year, hes very fast and direct. I'm surprised one of the big teams didn't go for him

prettyboy81

Lads,

Lets get away from all the civil service training course buzz words! This would be my starting XI for Sunday trying to factor in injuries, etc. The excitement is building nicely towards Super Sunday.

4-3-3

Mignolet

RB - Clyne
CB - Lovern
CB - Klavan
LB - Moreno

CM - Can
CM - Dutch Gold (Need to get predictive spelling sorted for GW)
CM - Henderson (C)

AM - Mane
AM - Coutinho
AM/ST - Firmino

Thoughts, Matip not enough game time so far for us. Henderson the Captain big call to play but 3 man midfield away to your rivals will be needed IMO.

The rest pick themselves with Origi just behind Firmino but that could be a 50/50 pick for Klopp. Options on the bench in Lallana, Origi, Benteke, Markovic, Stewart, Ojo, Matip.

Oh & Ings how could I forget him.

LuckyLloyd

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

....

I don't know what will happen, but if we end up in the top four at the end of the season Klopp really is a very special coach.

If we end up in the top4 Sturridge will be after scoring 15+ PL goals. We've a better squad than this time last year but are still reliant on Sturridge IMO.

Benteke came in last year and I was hopeful he'd score lots for us. Firmino, Ings, origi & Mane will/should ensure we are never toothless but that's not quite enough IMO.

8-10

rob316 wrote: »

Great, give the football a miss so you know who will be the better signing already.

Its the same nonsense out of you every summer in here, putting down anyone with a shred of optimism, spreading your pessimism. Buy HULK, Buy FALCAO, look at who united are signing, look at who spurs signed. Big names do not guarantee success when are people going to realize that. Look at who the top player in the league were last season - Vardy, Mahrez, Delle Ali, Kante - all bought for a pittance.

PFA Team of the Year cost less combined than Mané and Wijnaldum did:

de Gea - £18m
Bellerín - Youth System
Morgan - £1m
Alderweireld - £11.5m
Rose - £1m
Payet - £10.7m
Mahrez - £400k
Kante - £5.6m
Dele Alli - £5m
Kane - Youth System
Vardy - £1m

rob316

^^

Point proved, having a well rounded squad and competent coach is far more important. Sure we would like to sign big names but crying for them every summer when we don't is like a child throwing the toys out of the pram. Look at who united got, city got, Chelsea got.

LuckyLloyd

murpho999 wrote: »

How is a World Record signing a typical Utd signing?

It's becoming typical for them to acquire a signature player of a CL contender ala Di Maria.

MD1990

If Lloyd had his way the club could seriously go into administration .

Someone like Hulk could be got. Kaka, Afellay or Robinho. People will scoff at those names probably but they'd improve us, get us in the game. There are players moving around Europe for money who will land wherever the highest wage package is presented. Players who would strengthen our starting 11 will move to non CL Clubs.

Meanwhile we're shopping for young players on the cheap terribly worried that we'll be able to recoup a few quid in a couple of years.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=85569802&postcount=7042

Falcao is absolutely worth £80m and 200k a week. That would be a direct replacement for Suarez (and Suarez was on that amount of wages). Why have you all convinced yourselves that this club isn't deserving of the best? That it doesn't deserve to win trophies.

Are you suggesting that one of the most talented strikers in the world wouldn't be worth that much money?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=91600950&postcount=2290

LuckyLloyd

5starpool wrote: »

Where are you getting the £89m figure from Lloyd? I've seen figures from £100m up to £120m including agents fees, but nothing that low.

Either way, are you suggesting that we should be competing with Utd for signatures like that? Seriously? You've jumped so far over the shark that you can't even see the water anymore if that is the case.

If we were to make a signing like that it would instantly be all our budget for that window, never mind paying more than twice a week what we have previously paid anyone else. Like it or lump it, we take in far less money than Utd do.

I'm not suggesting we could / should pay towards £100m for a player. I'm merely noting that a key rival close to us in the table last year can and did and, as such, I find it difficult to expect that we'll perform better than them as a result.

I'd suggest people are reading things in my posts I haven't actually written.

Dickerty

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Kante was cheaper than Mane. I know which will be the better signing.

No, you don't. No-one does. You are just supremely negative.
And I think Mane addresses a bigger gap for us (pure pace in attack) than Kante does for Chelsea.

Dickerty

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

It's becoming typical for them to acquire a signature player of a CL contender ala Di Maria.

This is really nothing like that. They have been lacking a midfield focal point since probably Keane/Scholes. They have signed lots of flair players, particularly wingers. So Pogba is closer to the signings of Ferdinand or Van Persie - trying to sign the best for a weak position.

Dickerty

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I'm not suggesting we could / should pay towards £100m for a player. I'm merely noting that a key rival close to us in the table last year can and did and, as such, I find it difficult to expect that we'll perform better than them as a result.

So the signing of one player decides everyone?
They have a new manager, we don't.
They are changing style, we aren't.
We have both signed multiple players.

Don't all those things count, as well as injuries, performances of young players coming through, quality of coaching, etc....?

NukaCola

I wonder if we dont get top 4 will people be looking to change the manager........Its fine being optimistic but there are still at least 4 better squads with top managers at each club......I think expectations are unrealistically high, but I suppose they always have been......do we ever really learn to be realistic?.....

5starpool

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I'm not suggesting we could / should pay towards £100m for a player. I'm merely noting that a key rival close to us in the table last year can and did and, as such, I find it difficult to expect that we'll perform better than them as a result.

I'd suggest people are reading things in my posts I haven't actually written.

We can't compete that way, we have to try other ways. We are certainly no paupers and can spend money, but the simple truth is that we will have to compete by either buying better than it may seem we can on paper, or else by outperforming others due to better coaching/tactics/team spirit.

Thankfully the league positions are not decided on paper, although if they were over the last few years (aside from 13/14) we would have finished higher than where we did in most cases.

I trust/hope that Klopp knows what he is doing a hell of a lot better than me or any other poster here does. We'll find out over time, and while Mane or Wijnaldum could be expensive failures, so too could either/both be seen as bargains in time to come, and Pogba could also turn out to be either for Utd.

BullBlackNova

NukaCola wrote: »

I wonder if we dont get top 4 will people be looking to change the manager........Its fine being optimistic but there are still at least 4 better squads with top managers at each club......I think expectations are unrealistically high, but I suppose they always have been......do we ever really learn to be realistic?.....

Considering they just gave him a new contract less than a year after he signed, I don't think so. I think the club see Klopp as a long-term option and are happy to give him the time to achieve something over a few seasons, rather than bite the bullet immediately. Now, obviously, if we had a season like Chelsea did last year, that would change that, but if we came 5th or 6th, I don't think they'd be sacking him.

I reckon Pochettino is safe this season too, but that Mourinho, Conte, Wenger and Guardiola would all be under severe pressure if they didn't make the top 4.

murpho999

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

It's becoming typical for them to acquire a signature player of a CL contender ala Di Maria.

Well even going back to their barren period in the 80s they did that and it didn't bring much success.
They didn't see success until Ferguson came in and changed the club from top to bottom.

The money they are spending now is no guarantee of success as your example of di Maria illustrates.

NukaCola

BullBlackNova wrote: »

Considering they just gave him a new contract less than a year after he signed, I don't think so.

I meant posters/supporters in general, I would hope the owners are not as short sighted as some supporters.

54and56

NukaCola wrote: »

do we ever really learn to be realistic?.....

Sport in general relies on supporters not being realistic. It's the dream of over achieving relative to your resources that keeps us all interested. If league places were consistently determined every year by the amount spent on players or wages why would anyone bother being a fan?

murpho999

NukaCola wrote: »

I wonder if we dont get top 4 will people be looking to change the manager........Its fine being optimistic but there are still at least 4 better squads with top managers at each club......I think expectations are unrealistically high, but I suppose they always have been......do we ever really learn to be realistic?.....

No, unless we are near relegation, Klopp should be given time to achieve his long term goals.
Does not mean that a target for top 4 should not be set for this season.

Mr.H

mormank wrote:

I think the bit in bold just contradicts your entire argument and wins the argument for whoever the other guy was. If the goals (in this case the points total) is not set in stone and open to reassessment this would suggest that if it was looking like 4th was going to be unachievable with 70 points the goals would move to 75 points or whatever. Since the entire idea of targeting 70 points was to claim top 4 in the first place we must assume the points target will increase when needed throughout the season, and possibly decrease, meaning that the 70 points is just a rough guide basically in our ultimate goal of finishing top 4. I.e. they were never targetting 70 points, just top 4.

If the target is changeable ie; 70pts. That means if we are having a great season we can aim higher but if we are having a poor season we can consolidate.

It's about managing expectations and not getting carried away with ourselves.

You can't say right now what 4th looks like.

If 4 teams get 90pts this season for example then I think it's unrealistic for us to expect to be in the top 4.

That's why I'm saying 70pts would be successful

LuckyLloyd

rob316 wrote: »

To be fair your rarely do before a ball is kicked. You've been very wrong before good chance you will be again.

United will be right up there with the manager they have brought in and the caliber of signings no doubt but we are no mugs, we proved it last season time and again.

I commented before the start of last season that our squad seemed to have been constructed in an unbalanced fashion and questioned our depth. Was I wrong?

rob316 wrote: »

Great, give the football a miss so you know who will be the better signing already.

Its the same nonsense out of you every summer in here, putting down anyone with a shred of optimism, spreading your pessimism. Buy HULK, Buy FALCAO, look at who united are signing, look at who spurs signed. Big names do not guarantee success when are people going to realize that. Look at who the top player in the league were last season - Vardy, Mahrez, Delle Ali, Kante - all bought for a pittance.

I'm not putting down anyone to be fair. People aren't really listening to what I'm saying. I'm happy with Klopp, I think our squad is better balanced than it was a year ago (need a left back mind). I'm just articulating a reality that top four might end up being out of reach because the relative improvement around us is frightening.

People seem to be putting themselves into a 'top four or disappointed' mode of thinking. It's self defeating.

MD1990 wrote: »

If Lloyd had his way the club could seriously go into administration .



http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=85569802&postcount=7042


http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=91600950&postcount=2290

Falcao fell off the face of the earth but I think there's a reasonable question to be asked about whether it's better to spend £60m on a CL superstar or £60m on mid level Premiership players like Mane and Wijnaldum. Similarly, considering the massive increase in TV money this season I think it was a summer to push and stretch, but we haven't so ho hum. The question is one of intent. Frankly, our business this summer doesn't display an intent to challenge for the title which I am fine with. What I'm ultimately trying to argue is that my expectations are moderate and that's okay given how our actions relatively compare to that of our rivals.

Given what we've done, my expectations are for a minor points haul improvement in the league and a run in one of the two cups. I'm not expecting anything more than that.

MD1990

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I commented before the start of last season that our squad seemed to have been constructed in an unbalanced fashion and questioned our depth. Was I wrong?



I'm not putting down anyone to be fair. People aren't really listening to what I'm saying. I'm happy with Klopp, I think our squad is better balanced than it was a year ago (need a left back mind). I'm just articulating a reality that top four might end up being out of reach because the relative improvement around us is frightening.

People seem to be putting themselves into a 'top four or disappointed' mode of thinking. It's self defeating.



Falcao fell off the face of the earth but I think there's a reasonable question to be asked about whether it's better to spend £60m on a CL superstar or £60m on mid level Premiership players like Mane and Wijnaldum. Similarly, considering the massive increase in TV money this season I think it was a summer to push and stretch, but we haven't so ho hum. The question is one of intent. Frankly, our business this summer doesn't display an intent to challenge for the title which I am fine with. What I'm ultimately trying to argue is that my expectations are moderate and that's okay given how our actions relatively compare to that of our rivals.

Given what we've done, my expectations are for a minor points haul improvement in the league and a run in one of the two cups. I'm not expecting anything more than that.

Alexis Sanchez is the player I think when we were competing with Arsenal that we should have offered huge wages 220k+ to try & convince him to join us although not sure it would have made a difference. Other than that look at the wages Man Utd have payed & it has them in the EL.
Look at Sevilla & Juventus who have improved on small budgets with having top class sporting directors. Juventus are now CL contenders.

Sappy404

I've just found out Grujic only turned 20 in April :eek:

I've only seen him in pre-season, but wow, what a prospect he is.

Mr.H

MD1990 wrote:

Alexis Sanchez is the player I think when we were competing with Arsenal that we should have offered huge wages 220k+ to try & convince him to join us although not sure it would have made a difference. Other than that look at the wages Man Utd have payed & it has them in the EL. Look at Sevilla & Juventus who have improved on small budgets with having top class sporting directors. Juventus are now CL contenders.

Look what Leicester spent to win the league compared to united to just appease sponsors who wanted big names.

We don't need to spend big to get a player who does a solid job

rossie1977

BullBlackNova wrote: »

Considering they just gave him a new contract less than a year after he signed, I don't think so. I think the club see Klopp as a long-term option and are happy to give him the time to achieve something over a few seasons, rather than bite the bullet immediately. Now, obviously, if we had a season like Chelsea did last year, that would change that, but if we came 5th or 6th, I don't think they'd be sacking him.

I reckon Pochettino is safe this season too, but that Mourinho, Conte, Wenger and Guardiola would all be under severe pressure if they didn't make the top 4.

Nobody is safe, its a dog eat dog league now

The fact that Everton on their budget are sacking a manager despite a comfortable mid table finish should be a wake up call

Giving klopp the extension was a mistake Imo, an unwanted distraction. Even if every Liverpool supporter is behind him a couple of defeats and the media/rival supporters will have a field-day...remember the grief pardew got the season after signing his extension at Newcastle

Mr.H

This is why expectations need to be managed.

People with this mentality will call for Kloops head if we end up 5th with 80pts even though that would have given us top 4 every year of the premiership

BullBlackNova

rossie1977 wrote: »

Nobody is safe, its a dog eat dog league now

The fact that Everton on their budget are sacking a manager despite a comfortable mid table finish should be a wake up call

Giving klopp the extension was a mistake Imo. Even if every Liverpool supporter is behind him a couple of defeats and the media/rival supporters will have a field-day...remember the grief pardew got the season after signing his extension at Newcastle

Tbf to Everton, they were clearly regressing under Martinez. They have a core of young talented players who weren't progressing in their development at all, they were a shambles at the back.

Even ignoring Leicester as an outlier, Everton couldn't ignore the progress made by West Ham, Southampton, Stoke and, potentially, a few others like Palace, Watford, Bournemouth, etc. I know the latter 3 finished behind them last season but two made huge strides in their first seasons in the league and the other reached the FA Cup final. Everton's post-Christmas form was relegation standard - Martinez had to go.

But, I take your point - it will be pretty cut throat throughout the division. Given the huge money spent by everyone so far, I think there may be some unhappy owners/supporters by Christmas and we may see a large turnover of managers.

Vicxas

I think Klavan has been quite the shrewd signing and himself and Lovren seem to have a good understanding.

Too bad we have Wiley Coyote at LB....

5starpool

NukaCola wrote: »

I wonder if we dont get top 4 will people be looking to change the manager........Its fine being optimistic but there are still at least 4 better squads with top managers at each club......I think expectations are unrealistically high, but I suppose they always have been......do we ever really learn to be realistic?.....

Some people inevitably will. Personally I can't myself being one of them unless it becomes insipid and thoroughly depressing.

If Klopp fails outright (and by that I mean almost no positives to be taken from anything) this season then I really will despair of us ever being able to make any sort of challenge again for anything in the next few years.

Kimbot

Rumours of Lovrens missues playing away from home, hope its just gossip cos his head might end up all over the place if true.

J Mysterio

Vicxas wrote: »

I think Klavan has been quite the shrewd signing and himself and Lovren seem to have a good understanding.

He's been an excellent signing. The Lovren/ Klavan partnership is looking very good, looks like theyve played together for years.

Riesen_Meal

jonnycivic wrote: »

Rumours of Lovrens missues playing away from home, hope its just gossip cos his head might end up all over the place if true.

That's what Klopp was referring to with not answering the S*n questions anymore, that and they apparently had a sex tape story on Clyne a few weeks ago...

MD1990

jonnycivic wrote: »

Rumours of Lovrens missues playing away from home, hope its just gossip cos his head might end up all over the place if true.

I have no idea why everyone just doesn't boycott that paper & put it out of business.


But I guess there is some sad individuals who are interested in stories like that.

J Mysterio

jonnycivic wrote: »

Rumours of Lovrens missues playing away from home, hope its just gossip cos his head might end up all over the place if true.

Its old hat.

If the rumours are true, he dealt with the fallout/ solved the crisis over the summer.

Kimbot

Fieldog wrote: »

That's what Klopp was referring to with not answering the S*n questions anymore, that and they apparently had a sex tape story on Clyne a few weeks ago...

Oh i didnt see any of that, in fairness they are a rag.

garra

5starpool wrote: »

Some people inevitably will. Personally I can't myself being one of them unless it becomes insipid and thoroughly depressing.

If Klopp fails outright (and by that I mean almost no positives to be taken from anything) this season then I really will despair of us ever being able to make any sort of challenge again for anything in the next few years.

If that happens I will not only delete my account, I will absolve myself of all interest in football and life in general!!

Agent Coulson

Well I think our total points aim at the start of every season should be 114 and it should be reassessed after every game.

Kimbot

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Well I think our total points aim at the start of every season should be 114 and it should be reassessed after every game.

we shouldnt settle for anything less.

PaddyWilliams

jonnycivic wrote: »

we shouldnt settle for anything less.

And any more after that is... Unattainable.

Andersonisgod

5starpool wrote: »

We're losing the pivot competition.

We have Busquets, therefore you are always losing the pivot competition.