Women's Olympics Road Race

godtabh

https://twitter.com/robhatchtv/status/762403040846614528

Beasty

Don't know if anyone else noticed but there's a 30 km/h speed limit painted on the road. That's going up the hill, but I assume the same limit applies on the descent. What speed where they descending at? 60+ km/h? As I mentioned previously I also think they were very lucky there was no downpour.

JK.BMC

secman wrote: »

It was a horrible crash to watch, she seems to have misjudged the line through, braked hard on rear wheel, which locked up and skidded. Then it appears that front brakes were applied hard, it locked and she goes over handlebars ,landing on her back on the high kerb. please god she is okay and suffers no permanent damage.
Regarding the course..most of the riders in both races managed it on every lap, it was only on final lap in each race when medals were real prospect that the descenders pushed the limit and it didn't pay off.

That's a very good point - riders on the limit do make mistakes. And the internet sponge soaks up the righteous indignation of the masses very easily. But please God she will be okay because I found it horrific to watch also.

However I do think the consensus view is that the edges of the road were lethal and not enough precaution was taken beforehand. Bad form from the race organisers.

sullivlo

godtabh wrote: »

https://twitter.com/robhatchtv/status/762403040846614528

****.

Hopefully the fractures aren't too serious. A friend of mine was recently paralysed in a cycling accident. Hopefully she has a better outcome.

Kaisr Sose

Beasty wrote: »

Only rider error in the sense the circuit "encouraged" riders to go at speeds that ultimately proved unsafe. Given the number of serious accidents on that descent over the past 2 days I think "blame" can be laid squarely with the organisers

It's not, and there should not be a blame game. When there are medals and victories on the line, riders will always push it to the limit or to an extent that a simple error can result in a serious crash.

They may as well neutralise the decents in grand tours if you think that riders going at 80kmph plus is something that exposes them to un-necessary risk.

Beasty

sullivlo wrote: »

****.

Hopefully the fractures aren't too serious. A friend of mine was recently paralysed in a cycling accident. Hopefully she has a better outcome.

I've seen reports that the fractures were minor. I had fractures in the neck and cervical spine, but never even noticed them (had a few other things to worry about mind!)

sullivlo

Beasty wrote: »

I've seen reports that the fractures were minor. I had fractures in the neck and cervical spine, but never even noticed them (had a few other things to worry about mind!)

I had a fractured neck before also and it was minor, but the way she landed... It looked horrible. Hopefully she makes a full recovery.

Beasty

Kaisr Sose wrote: »

It's not, and there should not be a blame game. When there are medals and victories on the line, riders will always push it to the limit or to an extent that a simple error can result in a serious crash.

They may as well neutralise the decents in grand tours if you think that riders going at 80kmph plus is something that exposes them to un-necessary risk.

I have a pretty good idea of the consequences of something like that and organisers that do not take appropriate care are being negligent. Boardman has been saying it's dangerous all week. This is a competition to find the best cyclist, not the bravest/luckiest

Eamonnator

I saw Chris Boardman earlier on T.V. talking about the crash. He seemed to be having trouble, holding his temper in check.

dastardly00

Just saw the crash. Holy crap. I hope she's okay.

Eamonnator

http://www.bbc.com/sport/olympics/37005595

A transcript of Boardman's interview.

Nekarsulm

She seemed to land on her left shoulder at the point where the road meets the kerb, then flipped over onto the top of the kerb. So hopefully that took the worst of the energy.
Youtube video I was slow-motioning now gone due to Olympic Copyright.

Kaisr Sose

Beasty wrote: »

I have a pretty good idea of the consequences of something like that and organisers that do not take appropriate care are being negligent. Boardman has been saying it's dangerous all week. This is a competition to find the best cyclist, not the bravest/luckiest

He is also saying that crashes are part of cycling and that it was the best course ever. I don't want medals decided like they were in the Men's and Ladies races but when going at 80km plus, how do you remove danger and risk of serious injury?

The fallout from this is flat/semi-flat Olympic road races becoming the norm from now on.

Beasty

Kaisr Sose wrote: »

The fallout from this is flat/semi-flat Olympic road races becoming the norm from now on.

Not at all

This is a quote from those Boardman comments linked above

I went down and had a look at the course and saw those edges. We knew it was way past being technical; it was dangerous.

Technical descent - fine
Dangerous descent - no (and actually organisers who put cyclists or anyone else in danger risk legal action, so it's in their own interests to avoid anything that could be considered "dangerous")

MPFGLB

Kaisr Sose wrote: »

It's not, and there should not be a blame game. When there are medals and victories on the line, riders will always push it to the limit or to an extent that a simple error can result in a serious crash.

They may as well neutralise the decents in grand tours if you think that riders going at 80kmph plus is something that exposes them to un-necessary risk.

You are totally missing the point

Of course riders will push to the limit then others i.e. officals need to ensure a safe course ...the steepness of the descent was not the issue , nor the speed that rider go at in the race or at the Tour...accidents happen in many races like PR or the Tour

The issue here was this descent was dangerous because if one crashed there were concrete barriers by the side of the road and trees right on the side with no protection , Thsi is not whetehr a rider crashed or took risks .Its about that this course was very dangerous if you did crash...

Kaisr Sose

@Beasty: nobody knows what the fallout is

@MPFGLB: I am not missing any point. I am accepting the course was dangerous but I am also saying that any accident at 80kmph is dangerous.

ThisRegard

Kaisr Sose wrote: »

It's not, and there should not be a blame game. When there are medals and victories on the line, riders will always push it to the limit or to an extent that a simple error can result in a serious crash.

They may as well neutralise the decents in grand tours if you think that riders going at 80kmph plus is something that exposes them to un-necessary risk.

I said in the mens thread that in his interview after the race Dan Martin said that riders weren't pushing it to the limit because they felt it was too dangerous.

MPFGLB

Kaisr Sose wrote: »

@Beasty: nobody knows what the fallout is

@MPFGLB: I am not missing any point. I am accepting the course was dangerous but I am also saying that any accident at 80kmph is dangerous.

There degrees of danger ...as in anything ...and officals IO/UCI or whover need to mitigate the risks . Boardman and other who have ridden bikes as professionals are acknowledging this...
If a rider crashes and there are rolling fileds on either side then there is risk
If howeve there are concrete barriers then that is more dangerous
It is very simple really

ThisRegard

Sticky Bottle have his interview, and here's an extract from their story.

And when he spoke to RTE immediately after the finish, he didn’t do much to hide his disappointment or indeed his disapproval of the course that was chosen for the race.
“It’s a pity when mechanical problems and crashes decide a race,” he said.
“The downhill was quite dangerous. If it was raining I don’t think anyone would have finished.
“We had good weather, but we still had a lot of guys crashing and you don’t want to see that.
He described the course as being very difficult, implying it was perhaps too hard for more aggressive racing: “I don’t know how the race looked on TV, I hope it wasn’t boring.
“Guys are afraid to attack because everyone is so exhausted anyway it makes the racing negative.”

http://www.stickybottle.com/latest-news/video-dan-martin-was-clearly-not-happy-after-olympic-road-race/

Kaisr Sose

MPFGLB wrote: »

[/B]

There degrees of danger ...as in anything ...and officals IO/UCI or whover need to mitigate the risks . Boardman and other who have ridden bikes as professionals are acknowledging this...
If a rider crashes and there are rolling fileds on either side then there is risk
If howeve there are concrete barriers then that is more dangerous
It is very simple really

I said "the course was dangerous" and "I don't want to see medals decided like they were". So again don't go saying I am missing a point.

Do the UCI approve Olympic courses? I would assume they do - so who there approved this and why? They should know the variables of safe and fair courses. If they passed this course as safe - they need to be asked to account for how they came up with that opinion. Which rows back on me saying there it should not be a blame game :-)

Meanwhile, I hope Van Vlueten will make a full recovery.

Tell me how

Kaisr Sose wrote:

@MPFGLB: I am not missing any point. I am accepting the course was dangerous but I am also saying that any accident at 80kmph is dangerous.

You're totally missing the point.
Any crash at 80kmph is dangerous yes but "RELATIVELY" speaking versus what the same riders usually face, this was a death trap far and above what the riders should have been exposed to.
It's 100% the fault of the organisers.

Chuchote

I'm not a competitive cyclist or anything near it, but to me it seemed like a) an unintelligently designed course and b) a dangerous course. It wouldn't have killed the organisers to put bales on the bends, and none of the crashes would have been so dangerous if they had. And to have a belting race downhill at the end seems ridiculously endangering. Perhaps the men racing were lucky that they got into that squabble and kept blocking each other before the final break-out.

Van Vluten tweeted four hours ago:

I am now in the hospital with some injuries and fractures, but will be fine. Most of all super disappointed after best race of my career.

12 sprocket

Kaisr Sose wrote: »

@Beasty: nobody knows what the fallout is

@MPFGLB: I am not missing any point. I am accepting the course was dangerous but I am also saying that any accident at 80kmph is dangerous.

Well what if you compare falling on the Olympic descent at even 50 kph compared to Grand Prix motor bike races falling at over 200 kph and sliding through sand and having soft landings. The motor bike riders mostly get up and walk away, that's not likely if you hit one of those big footpaths or a tree on the Rio descent. So its the environment that you fall in that's often important.. The best riders in the world shouldn't have been exposed to needless risks.

Chuchote

12 sprocket wrote: »

Well what if you compare falling on the Olympic descent at even 50 kph compared to Grand Prix motor bike races falling at over 200 kph and sliding through sand and having soft landings. The motor bike riders mostly get up and walk away, that's not likely if you hit one of those big footpaths or a tree on the Rio descent. So its the environment that you fall in that's often important.. The best riders in the world shouldn't have been exposed to needless risks.

As I've said on another thread, a doctor told me some years back that he and other student doctors used to go to the TT races in the Isle of Man to volunteer in the local hospital, because they provided great experience of catastrophic injuries that you wouldn't get anywhere else.

wexandproud

these are the best bike riders in the world and it is up to them to weigh up the risk against the reward . nobody wants to see riders suffering falls like the leaders in both the road races over the weekend but i feel the ones who fell just took that extra bit of risk and lost , mijka backed off just that little bit and he got down just fine and that couple of kph less enabled him to even avoid the 2 riders on the road . the chasing riders in the ladies race were going that few kph slower and they got down , like i said its all about risk and reward .
If its a question of the risk of descending at over 80 kph what would people do in the tours where speeds are way above that with rock walls on one side and the risk of being launched into space on the other . We have all watched nibali during his sensational descents but i think deep down most of us would accept that it was only a matter of time before he made a mistake and pushed that little bit to hard
cycling is a risky sport and all the risk can never be taken out of it . Sprinters sprint elbow to elbow and wheel to wheel and if someone is not confident they back off but sometimes they crash , very badly . Boardman crashed out of the tour on a pan flat straight road , its a risky sport as a lot of guys on here including myself well know and sometime sh1t happens

Chuchote

wexandproud wrote: »

these are the best bike riders in the world and it is up to them to weigh up the risk against the reward (snip) and sometime sh1t happens

Yes… but by that logic, crowds would be allowed to throw themselves at the riders and there would be no hay bales in any race, surely, Wex?

Risks are a part of fast cycling; but a life-endangering road is not, or should not be.

Van Vlouten clearly came into the bend and prepared to lean into the next turn, whereupon her wheels locked and skidded, she slid sideways into the trench at the side of the road (a drain for mountain run-off, presumably), then flipped and somersaulted with her bike, and broke her back on the foot-high kerb.

If there had been hay bales, she would have skidded and bounced off the bales or gone over them, depending on their height. It seems unlikely that she would have broken her back.

sullivlo

wexandproud wrote: »

these are the best bike riders in the world and it is up to them to weigh up the risk against the reward . nobody wants to see riders suffering falls like the leaders in both the road races over the weekend but i feel the ones who fell just took that extra bit of risk and lost , mijka backed off just that little bit and he got down just fine and that couple of kph less enabled him to even avoid the 2 riders on the road . the chasing riders in the ladies race were going that few kph slower and they got down , like i said its all about risk and reward .
If its a question of the risk of descending at over 80 kph what would people do in the tours where speeds are way above that with rock walls on one side and the risk of being launched into space on the other . We have all watched nibali during his sensational descents but i think deep down most of us would accept that it was only a matter of time before he made a mistake and pushed that little bit to hard
cycling is a risky sport and all the risk can never be taken out of it . Sprinters sprint elbow to elbow and wheel to wheel and if someone is not confident they back off but sometimes they crash , very badly . Boardman crashed out of the tour on a pan flat straight road , its a risky sport as a lot of guys on here including myself well know and sometime sh1t happens

So you're saying that it is all entirely on the riders and that the organisers have no blame for organising a dangerous route? Or that the organisers didn't put some safety measures in place? When Porte crashed he damaged himself but there was a green fabric thing protecting him from going off the side of the mountain. If they could be safety conscious there, why not in other dangerous locations?

pelevin

I know the following could depending on the individual circumstances be misleading but just to give some idea of the nature of the course when going hard for victory. With 12 kms or so to go the leading 2 men riders & leading woman rider end up with Nibali breaking both collarbones, Henao with receiving a fracture to his iliac crest and trauma to his thorax, & Van Vleuten with an absolute horrific crash, unconscious & various thankfully minor fractures, & is very fortunate not to have ended up paralysed or even dead as looked realistic at the time. These riders were the ones who would have been inevitably going most aggressively seeing as they were gunning for the win.

I think how those leading 3 riders ended up gives some idea a line had been crossed in Boardman was right in saying, "We knew the descent was treacherous. I’m actually quite angry about it because I looked at the road furniture and thought: ‘Nobody can crash here and get up."

Mycroft H

Christ, 3 fractured vertebrae. I hope she's left with no lasting problems. I saw it live and I knew it looked bad.

Beasty

The UCI have defended the course stating it has passed the required safety review and had been used for a test event

I think whoever undertakes these reviews needs to go on a refresher:rolleyes: Also a test event is nothing like an Olympic final. Did they run it with the World's best riders over 250km?