Dublin area investors - where to buy now?

Cyrus

bad_saver wrote: »

are you serious ?, dublin draws a disproportionately skilled worker , for its size , its a hugely important financial , IT and pharmaceutical hub

agreed

IRAC War

People have a very inflated opinion of how important Dublin is. It's a minor player, not completely unimportant I grant you but we just dont have the infrastructure or workforce. What we do have is a low tax rate for businesses, and while some put some small amount of skilled workers here we have way more midlevel IT guys and support staff with a few accountants thrown in for good measure. We've vibrant enough 'financial district' (half a dozen buildings in D4) and I'm sure most of those lads don't worry about making the rent.

Those numbers are vastly eclipsed by the people working in the 20-40K bracket in D15 and a alike. Even with a wage for 50K - which I simply don't buy given the stats for industrial average wages, you have a take home pay for 36K pa. For a one bed apartment you'd be looking at 33%-50% of NET pay. It's nonsense to suggest that people are fine with that scenario given that we have a pay as you use model for things like health care.

IRAC War

Cyrus wrote: »

i'm not sure which companies you are referring to? most of the companies locating their emea hq in dublin aren't hiring people for low middling jobs, rather university graduates mostly with masters degrees

Master's degrees from where? I can't remember the last time I encountered someone with a masters degree from Harvard or Oxbridge outside of the legal field here. A masters degree would put you in an entry level job in many top firms based here, especially one from anywhere other than Queen's or TCD depending on the subject. In fact without experience you'd be lucky to even get that.

IRAC War

Facebook have 500 with capacity for around a 1000. Granted Google have around 5000. Itel is based in Co. Kildare. You only need to look at one other employer in Dublin, lets say Sky with around the same level of staff as Facebook to wipe out the supposed gains of all these highly paid people in Facebook. Let's take the D4 retail staff on close to minimum wage to wipe out Google's effect on wages. Where do they live?

Dublin has some decent jobs but don't kid yourself on the numbers or the reason why these businesses are here. Even people in decent jobs don't think they're getting value for money in Dublin even if they are able to afford the accommodation.

As has already been pointed out and how we got on this tangent, is this and the the lack of commercial premises is having an effect of the willingness of businesses to locate here.

athtrasna

Mod note

Folks please see the thread title. It's about where to invest not about multi nationals, education or salaries. Plenty of places to discuss those, this thread isn't one of them.

Sad Professor

Re: 4ensic15's earlier point that more landlords are leaving the market than entering it therefore there must be less supply, are there statistics backing this up? Because the private rental sector, as the census results will probably confirm, appears to be growing. There may be fewer investors/landlords but they are bigger, own more properties and are more ruthless in pursuing rent increases which is surely having significant upward pressure on rents. These are the cash buyers picking up Nama properties all over the place at knock down prices, so why would they bother with new builds at moment? But that doesn't mean they won't start buying or building them once the easy pickings are gone.

oppenheimer1

4ensic15 wrote: »

It is well documented that there are more investors leaving the market than buying in. That reduces supply. Not alone has the government shown zero imagination to date to solve the issue of escalating rents and consequent homelessness but it has taken measures which actually make things worse.
Where is the supply you are talking about going to come from? The present situation shows either extreme cynicism to drive up rents and house prices or else utter stupidity.
What government agency are you talking about? How does it route supply? Where does it source its product? Until the answers to those questions are clear rents will only go one way.

There are a lot of developments in the pre planning stage at the moment. It would be my guess that rents will peak in about 18 months and then stall as supply catches demand.

4ensic15

Sad Professor wrote: »

Re: 4ensic15's earlier point that more landlords are leaving the market than entering it therefore there must be less supply, are there statistics backing this up?

40,000 (RTB Figures) landlords have left the sector since 2012 and more intend to leave. For every two rental properties sold only one is coming back into the sector.

http://www.thejournal.ie/readme/landlords-housing-crisis-2827843-Jun2016/

4ensic15

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

There are a lot of developments in the pre planning stage at the moment. It would be my guess that rents will peak in about 18 months and then stall as supply catches demand.

The number planned doesn't even meet the number required to deal with the increasing number of household formations. There are still properties being removed from the market. I saw two pre 63 properties on the same road for sale today. 18 flats will become two houses shortly when the houses sell.
Supply is going to tighten further. Flom planning application to occupation takes years. In 18 months time the problem will be worse.

Cyrus

IRAC War wrote: »

Master's degrees from where? I can't remember the last time I encountered someone with a masters degree from Harvard or Oxbridge outside of the legal field here. A masters degree would put you in an entry level job in many top firms based here, especially one from anywhere other than Queen's or TCD depending on the subject. In fact without experience you'd be lucky to even get that.

only a masters degree from harvard is a masters degree now?

and generally people who are just finished college go into entry level jobs, thats normally how it works, its how quickly you move onwards from that is the point.

anyway, rents were depressed here for a long time, they are normalising now and will continue to rise for the reasons stated, we will also continue to attract MNCs who wont worry too much about the rental difficulties faced by some

athtrasna

athtrasna wrote: »

Mod note

Folks please see the thread title. It's about where to invest not about multi nationals, education or salaries. Plenty of places to discuss those, this thread isn't one of them.

You guys seem to have missed this. No more warnings!

Sad Professor

4ensic15 wrote: »

40,000 (RTB Figures) landlords have left the sector since 2012 and more intend to leave. For every two rental properties sold only one is coming back into the sector.

http://www.thejournal.ie/readme/landlords-housing-crisis-2827843-Jun2016/

RTB figures also show an increase in registrations in the last few years, both in tenancies and landlords, suggesting the market is growing again following the exodus of previous years. But their figures aren't reliable. The landlords who do register don't necessarily tell them when tenancies have ended. Similarly the ones who have exited may not be actually gone… I don't buy that landlords are leaving and not coming back. Small accidental or underwater landlords are going, but they are being replaced by bigger ones drawn in by the high rents.

lcwill

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

There are a lot of developments in the pre planning stage at the moment. It would be my guess that rents will peak in about 18 months and then stall as supply catches demand.

Where is this construction expected to be happening?

I am wondering whether it is worth waiting for new build apartments to start coming on the market - presuming that many of the existing apartments will start to look dated when compared to new builds, especially for tenants at the upper end of the rental market (the people on good salaries working for this MNCs you are all talking about who don't necessarily want to buy in Dublin).

OfflerCrocGod

lcwill wrote: »

Where is this construction expected to be happening?

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1895989

lcwill

OfflerCrocGod wrote: »

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1895989

Extremely interesting! Thanks for the link!

4ensic15

Sad Professor wrote: »

RTB figures also show an increase in registrations in the last few years, both in tenancies and landlords, suggesting the market is growing again following the exodus of previous years. But their figures aren't reliable. The landlords who do register don't necessarily tell them when tenancies have ended. Similarly the ones who have exited may not be actually gone… I don't buy that landlords are leaving and not coming back. Small accidental or underwater landlords are going, but they are being replaced by bigger ones drawn in by the high rents.

The big funds are buying existing lettings in large blocks. The small individual ones are going. That is reported by numerous agents. Registrations last for 4 years. Who tells the RTB to de register them after the unit is sold? The signs of dropping supply are obvious. How many threads are on this forum about the difficulty of securing accommodation? at any price?