General Premier League Thread - 2016/2017

Arghus

And it could all blow over in a few weeks, but in the meantime papers need to be sold and clicks need to be got...

Dirty Dingus McGee

Arghus wrote: »

And it could all blow over in a few weeks, but in the meantime papers need to be sold and clicks need to be got...

This looks like a permanent move to me.The new front 4 have played brilliantly and I don't think Aguero fits in with Guardiola's approach.

Bridge93

I've been watching replays since Saturday and still don't really know what to make of the Alonso/Bellerin incident. It looks a foul but a part of me just thinks it can't be.
Dermot Gallagher on Sky Sports News says it wasn't a foul so I'll bow down to his superior knowledge of the rules

GavRedKing

Chelsea

GavRedKing wrote: »

I'd love Aguero at Chelsea but I'd prefer Sanchez.

I cant see either being sold to any of their EPL rivals though.

Madrid maybe? I can't see him at Barca. They aren't going to drop Suarez

Dolph Starbeam

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Madrid maybe? I can't see him at Barca. They aren't going to drop Suarez

Can't see him going to Madrid either, they don't need him with Benzema. Could go back to Atletico if Griezmann is sold?

Bridge93

Chelsea

Bridge93 wrote: »

I've been watching replays since Saturday and still don't really know what to make of the Alonso/Bellerin incident. It looks a foul but a part of me just thinks it can't be.
Dermot Gallagher on Sky Sports News says it wasn't a foul so I'll bow down to his superior knowledge of the rules

Im kinda in the same boat, I thought it was a foul but I havent heard one pro analyst say it was so you end up doubting yourself. I mean if it was anywhere else on the pitch it would be a foul I reckon.

Football is wierd in the sense that once inside the box things arent always viewed in the same way as they would be out on the pitch the biggest example is late tackles, once the attacker gets a shot away you never see penalties given when the defender fouls a player, they dont even appeal them but anywhere else its a certain foul and yellow for a late tackle.

I appreciate sometimes the ball can be gone out of play before the foul is commited but not always.

Mr.Nice Guy

Manchester United

ERG89 wrote: »

Cavani has 28 goals in 28 games so I don't see the real need of a striker still.

The stats don't tell the whole story. Cavani has a great knack for getting into positions but he misses a LOT. He isn't in the same tier as Aguero imo who I'd consider much more clinical. If PSG can land Aguero and send Cavani to China, who I think has clubs there interested, that would be a great bit of business for them and could make them a genuine force in Europe.

Shanotheslayer

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

The stats don't tell the whole story. Cavani has a great knack for getting into positions but he misses a LOT. He isn't in the same tier as Aguero imo who I'd consider much more clinical. If PSG can land Aguero and send Cavani to China, who I think has clubs there interested, that would be a great bit of business for them and could make them a genuine force in Europe.

He does miss a lot.

But I wouldn't say a club '' Need'' a striker if they have one that is 28 goals in 28 games.

Mr.Nice Guy

Manchester United

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

He does miss a lot.

But I wouldn't say a club '' Need'' a striker if they have one that is 28 goals in 28 games.

What is their need though? The owners have defined it as winning the Champions League and I just can't see them doing it with Cavani leading the line. If you recall that game with Arsenal he missed some big chances which I think someone like Aguero would put away.

They will be favourites the next few seasons to win Ligue 1 as long as Cavani is up top, so if the goal is simply to win the title then he is fine for the role; but if they want to be in the mix with the likes of Barca, Real and Bayern for the Champions League then I'd say they'd need an elite striker akin to a Suarez or Lewandowski. For me, Aguero is in that bracket. I would say Cavani is just a bit below that level.

ERG89

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

What is their need though? The owners have defined it as winning the Champions League and I just can't see them doing it with Cavani leading the line. If you recall that game with Arsenal he missed some big chances which I think someone like Aguero would put away.
They will be favourites the next few seasons to win Ligue 1 as long as Cavani is up top, so if the goal is simply to win the title then he is fine for the role; but if they want to be in the mix with the likes of Barca, Real and Bayern for the Champions League then I'd say they'd need an elite striker akin to a Suarez or Lewandowski. For me, Aguero is in that bracket. I would say Cavani is just a bit below that level.

You rate Aguero higher than I would tbh, especially after a spate of injuries. If he was going to take PSG to that bracket why hasn't he done it with City?
Think the window closed on PSG winning a Champions League with the current side. A few of their players are past their prime & they fu*ked up big time last year when they couldn't even beat a terrible & out of form Man City. Even the year a barely fit Messi easily defeated them at the Nou Camp was a blown opportunity as they should have won that tie as well.
Cavani misses chances yeah but he still has a goal a game, you can say the defending is bad in Ligue 1 he gets more chances but defending is equally atrocious in England even with all the money teams waste on defenders.

Mr.Nice Guy

Manchester United

ERG89 wrote: »

You rate Aguero higher than I would tbh, especially after a spate of injuries. If he was going to take PSG to that bracket why hasn't he done it with City?
Think the window closed on PSG winning a Champions League with the current side. A few of their players are past their prime & they fu*ked up big time last year when they couldn't even beat a terrible & out of form Man City. Even the year a barely fit Messi easily defeated them at the Nou Camp was a blown opportunity as they should have won that tie as well.
Cavani misses chances yeah but he still has a goal a game, you can say the defending is bad in Ligue 1 he gets more chances but defending is equally atrocious in England even with all the money teams waste on defenders.

I do rate Aguero highly. For me he's in the top 5 strikers in the world whereas Cavani would likely make my top ten but not top 5. As for why he hasn't done it with City, well I'd say that Aguero can't do it all himself. He was sensational against Bayern in the game where he got a hat-trick. I don't think he's over the hill with his injuries as he's having a decent season despite Guardiola's view of him.

As regards PSG, I don't think they're far away from being a Champions League challenging side tbh. I would say they need to keep Verratti and not sell him to a rival like Bayern who are said to be interested.

Cavani missing chances doesn't matter greatly in Ligue 1 because PSG players and his own excellent movement will give him chances, but what about the big European games where PSG won't get so many chances? Those are the games where you need that clinical striker to put it away and I think with Cavani you'd never be confident enough in him to do that.

8-10

If I were PSG I'd be looking at Lukaku. Not sure how unpopular a view it may be but I think that kid is going to just get better and better and PSG would be a good fit. In 3 or 4 years he could be the best striker around

Rayne Wooney

Lukaku is probably as good as Cavani is now, if he can kick on he'll reach Suarez level at a far younger age

Andersonisgod

Manchester United

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Lukaku is probably as good as Cavani is now, if he can kick on he'll reach Suarez level at a far younger age

Having watched Lukaku a good amount the last few years I can see that aspects of his game have improved, such as his hold up play, the decision making with his first pass and the variety of his runs. And you look at his age and where he is at this stage of his career compared to where other world class strikers were at his age and you could come to the conclusion that this guy will be one of the veru best players in the world....

However I disagree for a few reasons. The first being that this guy has developed physically far quicker than any player I've ever seen, at 16 he had the physical capacities of a hulking 25 year old. Think of say, Torres or C. Ronaldo at that age, they certainly did not have the physical capabilites that Lukaku did and only developed them as they grew older. Inevitably this gave Lukaku an advantage in the comparative goalscoring stakes.

The other thing is that playing in a side like Everton suits him. They play for him, they play down the channels for him to run into and fee sides park the bus against Everton. Playing for a big team, against deep blocks and congested central areas doesn't suit him. Maybe he will develop the game to overcome that, but I have my doubts.

He'll always score goals, he'll always be a big threat, particularly in open games, but I don't think he'll ever successfully lead the line of a top side.

Gavlor

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Having watched Lukaku a good amount the last few years I can see that aspects of his game have improved, such as his hold up play, the decision making with his first pass and the variety of his runs. And you look at his age and where he is at this stage of his career compared to where other world class strikers were at his age and you could come to the conclusion that this guy will be one of the veru best players in the world....

However I disagree for a few reasons. The first being that this guy has developed physically far quicker than any player I've ever seen, at 16 he had the physical capacities of a hulking 25 year old. Think of say, Torres or C. Ronaldo at that age, they certainly did not have the physical capabilites that Lukaku did and only developed them as they grew older. Inevitably this gave Lukaku an advantage in the comparative goalscoring stakes.

The other thing is that playing in a side like Everton suits him. They play for him, they play down the channels for him to run into and fee sides park the bus against Everton. Playing for a big team, against deep blocks and congested central areas doesn't suit him. Maybe he will develop the game to overcome that, but I have my doubts.

He'll always score goals, he'll always be a big threat, particularly in open games, but I don't think he'll ever successfully lead the line of a top side.

Hopefully the decision makers at the worlds top clubs share that sentiment.

Andersonisgod

Manchester United

Gavlor wrote: »

Hopefully the decision makers at the worlds top clubs share that sentiment.

Some might, others might only see his numbers and decide to take a 60 million Euro chance. He is invariably destined to play for a top club but how much of s success his run as the main striker for that club will be is up for debate.

eagle eye

He doesn't get nearly as many shots on goal as other top players. He has less shots than Sanchez, Ibra and Costa. He has more goals per minutes played than all but Kane and Aguero.

I think if he was in a better team he would have a lot more goals.

8-10

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Having watched Lukaku a good amount the last few years I can see that aspects of his game have improved, such as his hold up play, the decision making with his first pass and the variety of his runs. And you look at his age and where he is at this stage of his career compared to where other world class strikers were at his age and you could come to the conclusion that this guy will be one of the veru best players in the world....

However I disagree for a few reasons. The first being that this guy has developed physically far quicker than any player I've ever seen, at 16 he had the physical capacities of a hulking 25 year old. Think of say, Torres or C. Ronaldo at that age, they certainly did not have the physical capabilites that Lukaku did and only developed them as they grew older. Inevitably this gave Lukaku an advantage in the comparative goalscoring stakes.

The other thing is that playing in a side like Everton suits him. They play for him, they play down the channels for him to run into and fee sides park the bus against Everton. Playing for a big team, against deep blocks and congested central areas doesn't suit him. Maybe he will develop the game to overcome that, but I have my doubts.

He'll always score goals, he'll always be a big threat, particularly in open games, but I don't think he'll ever successfully lead the line of a top side.

His next move is what will make or break him. I've been critical of his inconsistency in the past but the last 18 months he has been excellent. Maybe I'm influenced unjustly by his recent 4-goal performance v Bournemouth but I do think there's a marked improvement from where he was in his Chelsea/West Brom/early days at Everton where he was a raw talent, as you say well developed physically at a young age, but was very streaky in terms of form.

I completely get what you say as there are plenty of players you see who are strong at a young level and look like world beaters as teenagers. Then they get to their 20's or get a move early to a big club and they just don't push on - either they developed too quickly and hit their ceiling early, or they miss out on important development experience by going to a big team too early and sitting on the bench too much.

I don't personally think this is the case with Lukaku. His goalscoring has been getting better over the past few years and is already on course to beat his best ever goalscoring haul (from last season). There is nothing indicating to me that he is struggling to push on and fulfil his potential, instead I'm seeing him becoming more important to his team, scoring more goals and honing his skills more and more.

Will he make it at a big club? Who knows. What I do know is he wasn't ready for a big club a few years ago and going on loan rather than staying on the bench at Chelsea was very important for his development. And right about now, at 23/24 years of age, I reckon he's ready to at least try it out. Go back to Chelsea or join the likes of PSG would not be a crazy move in my opinion. I reckon either of those teams could use him and I reckon he's ready for that opportunity. So his next move is key, I just think it's reaching tipping point at Everton - no offense to their fans but I just don't see what staying there for the next 5 years is going to do for him.

GavRedKing

Chelsea

Lukaku wont stay at Everton, he'd be mad too.

I'd take him back at Chelsea in a heartbeat but only if Costa left, I dont think Everton wont sell him to an English side for anything boardering on a mental price anyway, 70m I'd reckon.

The Talking Bread

GavRedKing wrote: »

Lukaku wont stay at Everton, he'd be mad too.

I'd take him back at Chelsea in a heartbeat but only if Costa left, I dont think Everton wont sell him to an English side for anything boardering on a mental price anyway, 70m I'd reckon.

They won't get 70 million for him, no way. In or around 55 million, 60 tops. The player will want to go and the club won't have the bargaining power to keep him.
Maybe I am wrong though. But there are a fair few decent strikers in the market this Summer, Aguero, Griezmann, Moratta, Kane possibly, Sturridge, Martial, Icardi etc so that will drive his price tag down a little

Chelsea

how long is left on his contract?

The Talking Bread

Deleted User wrote: »

how long is left on his contract?

I'm not sure, there was some talk of him signing a new 100K one before Christmas, with the proviso that he could leave in Summer if proper offer (around 75m) came in. Not sure if it was a genuine or just tabloid column filler gossip though. Sounded like a bit of agent PR work though to boost his price tag, his agent being, of course, Mino Raiola

eh i dunno

Can't see lukaku going anywhere for less than 75m. Wasn't martial 54m and unproven in the prem league.

The Talking Bread

eh i dunno wrote: »

Can't see lukaku going anywhere for less than 75m. Wasn't martial 54m and unproven in the prem league.

I often wonder were the price tags quoted during the Van Gaal era "misleading" though . What is the official line of proof? Are the figures declared officially for all transfers?

Lukker-

Just my opinion, but I see him back at Chelsea next season. Conte is a fan and already tried to get him last summer. Lukaku is a Chelsea fan and is well suited to the PL. The only team that could challenge for his signing is United, and I doubt he's keen to play for Jose again.

The Talking Bread

Lukker- wrote: »

Just my opinion, but I see him back at Chelsea next season. Conte is a fan and already tried to get him last summer. Lukaku is a Chelsea fan and is well suited to the PL. The only team that could challenge for his signing is United, and I doubt he's keen to play for Jose again.

PSG
Madrid could be a realistic destination long term. Moratta wants out (and could be Chelsea bound), Benzema is 30 this year and Ronaldo, well he is just turned 32

Gavlor

He's currently in talks over a new contract, I can see him signing, staying one more season and then moving outside the prem for big bucks. Surely in today's crazy market 75m will be the minimum

Lukker-

The Talking Bread wrote: »

PSG
Madrid could be a realistic destination long term. Moratta wants out (and could be Chelsea bound), Benzema is 30 this year and Ronaldo, well he is just turned 32

PSG maybe, again Cavani gets some slack but he has 28 goals this season.He'd prob fit in well enough there.

I just can't see him at Madrid, doesn't fit the profile. I think Ronaldo might move to a central position next season, his legs are gone and playing on the wing/inside forward has too much running for him that he weakens them by being there.

Gavlor

Regardless of where he ends up, arsene wenger will have almost signed him.

Trigger

Chelsea

I reckon he will stay in England, and can't see him going to Madrid anyways.. they will probably go for Aubamayang to replace Morata/Benzema.

GavRedKing

Chelsea

The Talking Bread wrote: »

They won't get 70 million for him, no way. In or around 55 million, 60 tops. The player will want to go and the club won't have the bargaining power to keep him.
Maybe I am wrong though. But there are a fair few decent strikers in the market this Summer, Aguero, Griezmann, Moratta, Kane possibly, Sturridge, Martial, Icardi etc so that will drive his price tag down a little

The better Everton players are always sought after but rarely move, Fellaini wanted out and got it, Utd paid what, 28m for him.

Stones was the same and wanted out but wasnt allowed leave for Chelsea (thankfully in the end) and was sold to City 12months later for £50m.

I'd say if Lukaku wanted out he would get it but Everton would bend over any English looking to get him, nearly every PL club able to afford him would go after him, only club that 100% wont get him is Liverpool for clear reasons.

I reckon he'll stay in England and that will drive up his price by a good £10m more than what hes actually worth, I'd value him in and around 60m but Everton were supposedly looking for nearer £80m for him in the summer.

If Chelsea do go after a CF in the summer I'd prefer Lukaku over Morata anyway.

Shanotheslayer

Rom won't leave for less then 60Mil to a premiership team no chance.

We'll struggle without him. He's a goal or two away from our highest ever Premier League goalscorer.

His biggest flaws i've noticed has been his first touched which he seemed to improved on a lot. I remember about a year ago that nearly everybody time the ball was played to him at pace it would bounce of his shin guard and to the opposition it was absolute torture.

He's a brilliant goalscorer but he rarely scores in the big games but the stats do favor him better than most at his age.

Kane on the other hand scores in nearly every London Derby. Rom struggles against the 'big 6' imo.

It'll be interesting if he moves. He'd suit Uniteds style of play I think, potential replacement for Ibra in a year or so maybe(?)

Gavlor

Happy days

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/lukaku-sign-new-everton-deal-12579411

Edit: lukaku's agent has confirmed he's signing a new deal with Everton.

mickmackey1

Gavlor wrote: »

Happy days

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/lukaku-sign-new-everton-deal-12579411

Edit: lukaku's agent has confirmed he's signing a new deal with Everton.

I seem to remember Payet signing a new 5-year contract with W Ham not so long ago...

Gavlor

mickmackey1 wrote: »

I seem to remember Payet signing a new 5-year contract with W Ham not so long ago...

As per my post a page or so back, I fully expect lukaku to be sold in summer 2018. The new contract just assures a good fee for Everton.

GavRedKing

Chelsea

I still reckon Lukaku will go this summer but it depends on what the biggest clubs do about their current CFs and if he pushes for a move.

How much the PL table could change after this weekend's matches...



The relegation battle is starting to heat up.

Gavlor

Fraser Forster 90k a week!! Jaysus

https://twitter.com/fourfourtweet/status/830045522631282689

ERG89

Defoe earns every fu*king penny there. As usual with all them tables a fair few high earners are not their best player. Rooney, Toure & Fabregas won't be offered those deals in Europe ever again.

Iused2likebusts

Burnley massively punching above their weight when wages are considered.

GavRedKing

Chelsea

Thats wrong anyway about Cesc, Hazard is Chelseas highest paid player on 200k.

Anything I've seen from Cesc when he signed, he was meant to be on 150-160k.

Osmosis Jones

Middlesbrough being able to shell out 100k for Negredo is mental.

The Talking Bread

Highest earning players at each Premier League club

Arsenal Mesut Özil £140,000 a week
Bournemouth Jack Wilshere £80,000
Burnley Robbie Brady £30-35,000
Chelsea Cesc Fàbregas £220,000
Crystal Palace Christian Benteke £120,000
Everton Romelu Lukaku £75,000
Hull Abel Hernández £35,000
Leicester Jamie Vardy/Riyad Mahrez £100,000
Liverpool Philippe Coutinho £150,000
Manchester City Sergio Agüero/Yaya Touré £240,000
Manchester United Wayne Rooney £300,000
Middlesbrough Álvaro Negredo £100,000
Southampton Fraser Forster £90,000
Stoke Xherdan Shaqiri/ Marko Arnautovic £65,000
Sunderland Jermain Defoe £70,000
Swansea Fernando Llorente/Gylfi Sigurdsson £70,000
Tottenham Harry Kane/Hugo Lloris £120,000
Watford Troy Deeney £50,000
West Brom Darren Fletcher/ James Morrison £65,000
West Ham Andy Carroll £80,000

The Talking Bread

oops, sorry, just realised it's been posted already!

The Talking Bread

TBH, half the problem with Negredo's poor return per expectancy is due to Karanka and his tactics. He won't get the best out of a top striker playing ultra poor man Mourinho tactics. Rhodes should be playing if he wants to continue like that.

Jayop

Chelsea

The 300k figure for Rooney has repeatedly been refuted.

Lucas Hood

The Talking Bread wrote: »

TBH, half the problem with Negredo's poor return per expectancy is due to Karanka and his tactics. He won't get the best out of a top striker playing ultra poor man Mourinho tactics. Rhodes should be playing if he wants to continue like that.

Rhodes is gone on loan to Sheffield Wednesday for the rest of season.

The Talking Bread

Lucas Hood wrote: »

Rhodes is gone on loan to Sheffield Wednesday for the rest of season.

MADNESS

Type of player that could dig them out of a few holes these next few months.

rob316

The Talking Bread wrote: »

Highest earning players at each Premier League club

Arsenal Mesut Özil £140,000 a week
Bournemouth Jack Wilshere £80,000
Burnley Robbie Brady £30-35,000
Chelsea Cesc Fàbregas £220,000
Crystal Palace Christian Benteke £120,000
Everton Romelu Lukaku £75,000
Hull Abel Hernández £35,000
Leicester Jamie Vardy/Riyad Mahrez £100,000
Liverpool Philippe Coutinho £150,000
Manchester City Sergio Agüero/Yaya Touré £240,000
Manchester United Wayne Rooney £300,000
Middlesbrough Álvaro Negredo £100,000
Southampton Fraser Forster £90,000
Stoke Xherdan Shaqiri/ Marko Arnautovic £65,000
Sunderland Jermain Defoe £70,000
Swansea Fernando Llorente/Gylfi Sigurdsson £70,000
Tottenham Harry Kane/Hugo Lloris £120,000
Watford Troy Deeney £50,000
West Brom Darren Fletcher/ James Morrison £65,000
West Ham Andy Carroll £80,000

Ozil is massively underpaid in comparison and by extension Alexis Sanchez

KaiserGunner

Tottenham

A sign of the times when Crystal Palace are paying Christian Benteke £120,000 a week!! I'd love to know what the other players in the squad are earning.