General Premier League Thread - 2016/2017

ERG89

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote:

And if that just boils down to a battle between Arsenal and Liverpool for the last spot then who really cares.

Martin Tyler will regardless of the results today!
He still believes Hull have a chance.

The Talking Bread

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

And if that just boils down to a battle between Arsenal and Liverpool for the last spot then who really cares.

I actually think, for Arsenal it could be the best thing n the long run for them not to get a Champ League place.

1. It may be the nail in the coffin for Wenger and some of the very average placers in the squad
2. They won't come near the latter rounds with that squad regardless
3. It may force the owners into big investments in the squad
4. Sanchez and even Ozil are more probably than not leaving regardless
5. If Wenger does stay on it may give him more impetus, to concentrate on actually ensuring that they can't take their "annual top 4" place for granted and put more pressure on the team and, to be fair, Arsenal players do react decently under pressure more often than not. It s only when they look good, they fall victim to inevitable false hope.



Liverpool, however, going forward, could really need to secure that place and set them in motion.
Also, Klopp needs to fk off with those godawful advertisements. He gets paid enough already. If Liverpool fall out of the top 4 for the first time this season (I think) on the last day, it can only be classified as failure.

Harry Palmr

Whatever one thinks of Sam Allarderchi he knows how to keep a side up with sensible pragmatic tactics and attitude.

ERG89

Harry Palmr wrote:

Whatever one thinks of Sam Alerderchi he knows how to keep a side up with sensible pragmatic tactics and attitude.

Hull relegated themselves last week. I imagine anyone who stays there will be haunted by that Sunderland result until they get promoted again.

The Talking Bread

Why the fk is Tom Huddlestone sitting on the bench for a club fighting for survival. He was actually playing well the first half of the season. His career has hit a complete low.

The Talking Bread

ERG89 wrote: »

Hull relegated themselves last week. I imagine anyone who stays there will be haunted by that Sunderland result until they get promoted again.

Awful result, that.

blueser

ERG89 wrote: »

Hull relegated themselves last week. I imagine anyone who stays there will be haunted by that Sunderland result until they get promoted again.

I know logic would say that one game doesn't send you down (it's what you do in the other 37), but that was a hammer blow. Losing at home to an already relegated (and pretty woeful) Sunderland side was a hammer blow, specially so late on in the season, when you don't have many games left to repair the damage. They were looking a good bet to stay up before that game.

Berserker

Tottenham

The Talking Bread wrote: »

I actually think, for Arsenal it could be the best thing n the long run for them not to get a Champ League place.

Liverpool, however, going forward, could really need to secure that place and set them in motion.
Also, Klopp needs to fk off with those godawful advertisements. He gets paid enough already. If Liverpool fall out of the top 4 for the first time this season (I think) on the last day, it can only be classified as failure.

Not sure if top four would be good news for Arsenal. Wenger will stay on if they get top four and Arsenal will back in the same place next season. Huge pressure on Liverpool and Klopp for the first time. Will be interesting to see how they cope. Not getting top four, after having an easy season in terms of fixture congestion, would be a failure.

The Talking Bread

Berserker wrote: »

Not sure if top four would be good news for Arsenal. Wenger will stay on if they get top four and Arsenal will back in the same place next season. Huge pressure on Liverpool and Klopp for the first time. Will be interesting to see how they cope. Not getting top four, after having an easy season in terms of fixture congestion, would be a failure.

Just incase you misinterpreted my post, but that was my original point!

ERG89

You just know well Martin Tyler is in one of those "The last <insert meaningless stat> at White Hart Lane" moods

citytillidie

The Talking Bread wrote: »

I actually think, for Arsenal it could be the best thing n the long run for them not to get a Champ League place.

1. It may be the nail in the coffin for Wenger and some of the very average placers in the squad
2. They won't come near the latter rounds with that squad regardless
3. It may force the owners into big investments in the squad
4. Sanchez and even Ozil are more probably than not leaving regardless
5. If Wenger does stay on it may give him more impetus, to concentrate on actually ensuring that they can't take their "annual top 4" place for granted and put more pressure on the team and, to be fair, Arsenal players do react decently under pressure more often than not. It s only when they look good, they fall victim to inevitable false hope.



Liverpool, however, going forward, could really need to secure that place and set them in motion.
Also, Klopp needs to fk off with those godawful advertisements. He gets paid enough already. If Liverpool fall out of the top 4 for the first time this season (I think) on the last day, it can only be classified as failure.

Bet Victor are a Liverpool sponsor so you have to guess they would want some Liverpool connection in their adverts

The Talking Bread

citytillidie wrote: »

Bet Victor are a Liverpool sponsor so you have to guess they would want some Liverpool connection in their adverts

I am well aware of the commercial reasons but the adverts are, nevertheless, very irritating and if they had failed to get top 4 I imagine Liverpool fans would start to get irritated looking at them also!
He wasn't forced into doing them also.

citytillidie

The Talking Bread wrote: »

I am well aware of the commercial reasons but the adverts are, nevertheless, very irritating and if they had failed to get top 4 I imagine Liverpool fans would start to get irritated looking at them also!
He wasn't forced into doing them also.

If you get irritated by an advert that a manager did that was maybe done in one afternoon after training then you need to sort your priorities out

The Talking Bread

citytillidie wrote: »

If you get irritated by an advert that a manager did that was maybe done in one afternoon after training then you need to sort your priorities out

Jesus, I said I find the ad irritating, I didn't say it is driving me insane. Stupid reply! Everybody gets irritated by certain adverts!

The Talking Bread

MonkieSocks wrote: »

I know watchya mean Mr Bread

Sort your priorities out!

tayto lover

The Talking Bread wrote: »

I actually think, for Arsenal it could be the best thing n the long run for them not to get a Champ League place.

1. It may be the nail in the coffin for Wenger and some of the very average placers in the squad
2. They won't come near the latter rounds with that squad regardless
3. It may force the owners into big investments in the squad
4. Sanchez and even Ozil are more probably than not leaving regardless
5. If Wenger does stay on it may give him more impetus, to concentrate on actually ensuring that they can't take their "annual top 4" place for granted and put more pressure on the team and, to be fair, Arsenal players do react decently under pressure more often than not. It s only when they look good, they fall victim to inevitable false hope.

Hopefully you're right BUT I just can't see Wenger leaving. It's all about money at the club imo.

8-10

Liverpool are in a cup final position now. A cup final at home, against a relegated team with nothing to play for. If they don't win that game they don't deserve top 4 IMO. From last year's position to this years' has been a huge improvement regardless of top 4 or not. Finishing above a team like United where if you scroll up you will see were huge favourites on here to win the whole thing pre-season is a terrific achievement given the gap in resources and squad depth.

It's been a really fun season overall. Well done to Swansea for completely turning it around after looking like shoe-in's for relegation pre-Christmas. Sunderland's lives have run out and neither Hull nor Boro gambled enough to stay up, kind of seemed like they were afraid to push the boat out too much in case they got relegated and will probably stand to them next season that they didn't blow crazy money trying to stay up.

Spurs and Chelsea were both a class above everybody else and I'm delighted Chelsea won it, fully deserved and proving that last season was a blip. They have to be very careful of City and Spurs next season though, I think those 3 will be the strongest with the other 3 needing real squad changes in the summer to catch up. Liverpool need a brain, Arsenal need courage, and United need a heart.

Looking forward to seeing Brighton next season, always root for the teams that haven't played PL football before - so also hoping Huddersfield win the playoffs.

The Talking Bread

This is a quite brilliant reply to that C U Next Tuesday, Piers Moron

https://twitter.com/KillaScorp/status/863833673094844417

rob316

title, relegation and top 4 all decided. going to be a pretty non-eventful last day.

P_1

11 points between 8th and relegation doesn't really paint too good a picture about the quality of the league this season.

8-10

rob316 wrote: »

title, relegation and top 4 all decided. going to be a pretty non-eventful last day.

Top 4 isn't decided yet

The Talking Bread

8-10 wrote: »

Top 4 isn't decided yet

In fairness I think it is easy to forget Middlesbrough exist!

ArmaniJeanss

3rd place will definitely be alive going into Week38. Gives auto CL qualification which 4th doesn't.

Trigger

Chelsea

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

3rd place will definitely be alive going into Week38. Gives auto CL qualification which 4th doesn't.

If United win the Europa they get the auto place and 3rd &4th both go to playoffs I think

ERG89

The Talking Bread wrote: »

In fairness I think it is easy to forget Middlesbrough exist!

It's harder remember their manager's name. There is a difficult quiz in the waiting;
'Can you name these 20 caretaker managers'

ArmaniJeanss

astradave wrote: »

If United win the Europa they get the auto place and 3rd &4th both go to playoffs I think

No, only 4th will be in the playoff even if United win. Top 3 qualifying automatically was ringfenced, even if United and Leicester both won their Euro comps.

The Talking Bread

Can someone tell me what rank the Europa winners will be in their group? I mean what seeding?

Benimar

The Talking Bread wrote: »

Can someone tell me what rank the Europa winners will be in their group? I mean what seeding?

There isn't a 'reserved' spot. They won't be in Pot 1 as that's now Champions and Holders only. Outside of that it depends on a teams coefficient, so you would imagine Man U could be in Pot 2.

ArmaniJeanss

The Talking Bread wrote: »

Can someone tell me what rank the Europa winners will be in their group? I mean what seeding?

They'll be in Seeding Pot 2,3 or 4 depending on their own coefficient, theres no set seeding for the Europa winner if that's what you mean.

GavRedKing

Chelsea

The Talking Bread wrote: »

Can someone tell me what rank the Europa winners will be in their group? I mean what seeding?

As it stands, if Utd win the EL, they will be in pot 2, I think.

I've got Barca, Atletcio, PSG, Dortmund, Sevilla, Man City, Porto, Man Utd as 2nd seeds.

If its Ajax, theyre likely to go into pot 3.

If Arsenal get 4th and qualify, theyed be pot 2 and Utd would be pot 3.

Spurs will be pot 3 and Liverpool, depending on the qualifiers, could be pot 3 or 4.

No two teams from the same country can be in the same group either.

http://www.uefa.com/memberassociations/uefarankings/club/

Kiith

Do Europa League winners go into pot 2 automatically, or do coefficients came into effect? I'd assumed Spurs would get 2nd seeds coming 2nd, but hadn't really given it much though. Will make for a very tough group if we are 3rd seeds.

dr.kenneth noisewater

Chelsea

Kiith wrote: »

Do Europa League winners go into pot 2 automatically, or do coefficients came into effect? I'd assumed Spurs would get 2nd seeds coming 2nd, but hadn't really given it much though. Will make for a very tough group if we are 3rd seeds.

Only champions of the top leagues and CL winners get into pot 1 and all others are done on the team coefficents

Bridge93

More ****e spouted by the English media. Phil Thompson saying Crouch deserves credit for disguising his handball. 'Quick thinking'. This is the nation that still hasn't let a handball from 31 years ago go. English players can do no wrong

GavRedKing

Chelsea

Kiith wrote: »

Do Europa League winners go into pot 2 automatically, or do coefficients came into effect? I'd assumed Spurs would get 2nd seeds coming 2nd, but hadn't really given it much though. Will make for a very tough group if we are 3rd seeds.

Just looking at it, Pot 3 will have some serious teams in it.

Napoli, Shakthar, Zenit are all ahead of Spurs in the co-effecient and if Utd win the EL they'll be the 8th best 2nd pot side currently, if not, Napoli will take Utds spot in Pot 2, unless they win Serie A which is unlikely.

Pot 4 could have Liverpool, Roma, Celtic.

The Talking Bread

Monaco, if they don't win the league may be Pot 4, no? Or am I misinterpreting it?

Liverpool are definitely pot 4.

citytillidie

The Talking Bread wrote: »

Monaco, if they don't win the league may be Pot 4, no? Or am I misinterpreting it?

Liverpool are definitely pot 4.

Still a lot to know it will become more clearer over the summer when the qualifying rounds are played.

Liverpool may want to finish 3rd as there is a danger they could be unseeded in the play off round.

Pot 1 as it currently stands will be
Real Madrid
Bayern Munchen
Chelsea
Juventus
Benfica
AS Monaco
Spartak Moscow
Shakhtar Donetsk - Only if whoever wins Champions League also win their league

GavRedKing

Chelsea

The Talking Bread wrote: »

Monaco, if they don't win the league may be Pot 4, no? Or am I misinterpreting it?

Liverpool are definitely pot 4.

Monaco could be pot 4.They were this year anyway, in Spurs group.

But theyve a game in hand over PSG, about 20 goals better off and a 3 points up. So theres not a hope in hell they'll throw away the league.

P_1

Here are the coefficients http://www.uefa.com/memberassociations/uefarankings/club/

From a PL perspective

Chelsea Pot 1 as champions
Tottenham Likely Pot 3, Pot 2 if both Man Utd and Napoli don't qualify
Man City Pot 2
Liverpool Likely Pot 3
Arsenal Pot 2
Man Utd Pot 2

The Talking Bread

GavRedKing wrote: »

Monaco could be pot 4.They were this year anyway, in Spurs group.

But theyve a game in hand over PSG, about 20 goals better off and a 3 points up. So theres not a hope in hell they'll throw away the league.

Yeah, most definitely not. Their 2 mid table opponents have absolutely nothing to play for either.

TitianGerm

The Talking Bread wrote: »

Liverpool are definitely pot 4.

If Liverpool qualified​ then they'll be Pot 3 won't they? I thought the Europa run last year boosted out coefficient.

greendom

GavRedKing wrote: »

Monaco could be pot 4.They were this year anyway, in Spurs group.

But theyve a game in hand over PSG, about 20 goals better off and a 3 points up. So theres not a hope in hell they'll throw away the league.

Would their improved co-efficient from this year's run push them into a higher pot?

The Talking Bread

emmetkenny wrote: »

If Liverpool qualified​ then they'll be Pot 3 won't they? I thought the Europa run last year boosted out coefficient.

well, not according to the coefficient table at present, where they lie 34th. I think they will need a large number of the teams above them in the coefficient table not to qualify straight into the groups (or maybe it is into the groups at all?) in order for them to get into the 3rd pot.

Fiorentina, Villareal, Lyon won't be in Champ League definitely next year so that will help them rise in coefficient table.

Sure Liverpool may not even get beyond the qualifiers/playoff (or even into the qualfiers!!) so they shouldn't worry about that yet!

citytillidie

greendom wrote: »

Would their improved co-efficient from this year's run push them into a higher pot?

They are on 62.333 it is hard to tell now you have to wait until you know when the leagues have finished for a better idea, seeding for the 1st qualifying round has not even be sorted yet and people are talking about the group stage pots already.

What i do know is that Celtic will be seeded in the 2nd round while Dundalk will not be so that could be a draw

citytillidie

The Talking Bread wrote: »

well, not according to the coefficient table at present, where they lie 34th. I think they will need a large number of the teams above them in the coefficient table not to qualify straight into the groups (or maybe it is into the groups at all?) in order for them to get into the 3rd pot.

Fiorentina, Villareal, Lyon won't be in Champ League definitely next year so that will help them rise in coefficient table.

Sure Liverpool may not even get beyond the qualifiers/playoff (or even into the qualfiers!!) so they shouldn't worry about that yet!

Liverpool will be between pots 3&4 it all depends on what happens in the qualification. If Liverpool finish in top 4

At present there is only 1 team in the champions route that have a higher seeding than Liverpool so if Liverpool do make it that is 4 teams already behind them add on both Feyenoord and RB Leipzig who are already in the group stage and in pot 4 that is 6 teams in pot 4. So Liverpool only need two more teams with a lower seeding than them to get into pot 3

In fact the Turkish champions will have a lower seeding than Liverpool so that is 7 teams, depending on who wins the Belgium league that could be the 8 teams in Pot 4 so Liverpool would be in Pot 3

TitianGerm

The Talking Bread wrote: »

well, not according to the coefficient table at present, where they lie 34th. I think they will need a large number of the teams above them in the coefficient table not to qualify straight into the groups (or maybe it is into the groups at all?) in order for them to get into the 3rd pot.

Fiorentina, Villareal, Lyon won't be in Champ League definitely next year so that will help them rise in coefficient table.

Sure Liverpool may not even get beyond the qualifiers/playoff (or even into the qualfiers!!) so they shouldn't worry about that yet!

They might not qualify at all yet, hence why I said "If"

Bridge93

citytillidie wrote: »

At present there is only 1 team in the champions route that have a higher seeding than Liverpool so if Liverpool do make it that is 4 teams already behind them add on both Feyenoord and RB Leipzig who are already in the group stage and in pot 4 that is 6 teams in pot 4. So Liverpool only need two more teams with a lower seeding than them to get into pot 3

Are RB Leipzig even allowed in competition? Has there been a definitive decision on that?

The Talking Bread

emmetkenny wrote: »

They might not qualify at all yet, hence why I said "If"

I know, I was only joking f you read the last line!!

citytillidie

Bridge93 wrote: »

Are RB Leipzig even allowed in competition? Has there been a definitive decision on that?

No idea, i am just going on how the current set up looks with how all the leagues stand at present

dr.kenneth noisewater

Chelsea

Bridge93 wrote: »

citytillidie wrote: »

At present there is only 1 team in the champions route that have a higher seeding than Liverpool so if Liverpool do make it that is 4 teams already behind them add on both Feyenoord and RB Leipzig who are already in the group stage and in pot 4 that is 6 teams in pot 4. So Liverpool only need two more teams with a lower seeding than them to get into pot 3

Are RB Leipzig even allowed in competition? Has there been a definitive decision on that?

It will be one of RB Leipzig or RB Salzburg, probably Leipzig

The Talking Bread

dr.kenneth noisewater wrote: »

It will be one of RB Leipzig or RB Salzburg, probably Leipzig

It will probably be Salzburg, logically. Unless they are both allowed in or the owners are given the choice.

The decision should have been made or rigurously investigated a long time ago, since Leipzig was even founded initially, arguably. Very unfair even to the players, backroom team and, arguably, the owners themselves to not know where they stand.

I feel most sorry for Salzburg though, the fans mainly. They are a longstanding club who have merely gained large investment (which, of course is great) but not very fair if they are ommitted from European football as it is their team they follow, not Red Bull's owner's wallet.