Berlin Q or Bust: Road to sub 2:45

Kellygirl

Sorry it didn’t go your way but that’s some run today.

quick feet

Maybe the bad experience of fd 10 will reinforce a more stronger mentality and positive attitude for upcoming sessions and ultimately Dcm.. similar happened me and I'm already embracing this week's 20miler..

Singer

Well done getting back on the bike (well, not back on the bike, you know what I mean). Always good to have a race/distance to take sweet revenge on

overpronator

Great honesty, you'll be twice as hungry after it.

Murph_D

Tough day. Did you consider adjusting for the heat? This is a fairly useful document, I think (although I don't know how 'scientific' it is to be honest).

Effect of temperature on Marathon Pace

At least you provided AMK with a good story.

healy1835

Murph_D wrote: »

Tough day. Did you consider adjusting for the heat? This is a fairly useful document, I think (although I don't know how 'scientific' it is to be honest).

Effect of temperature on Marathon Pace

At least you provided AMK with a good story.

Cheers for that Murph. Outside of Rotterdam last year the heat has never really been an issue for me, as in I've never had to adjust or failed to hit a target because of it. I suppose the bigger issue was that I didn't let it become a factor, I just quit before the going got tough. Looking at some of the results it most likely could have come into play, but I'll never know......at least I had my (AM)Knight in shining armour to get me back to the car

healy1835

overpronator wrote: »

Great honesty, you'll be twice as hungry after it.

Cheers. Yeah I think you were actually a bit ahead of me, maybe 10 meters, and I was reeling you in before...... We never seem to be too far away from each other in races...what's up next for you?

MY BAD

DNFs are hard to take but they will make you a mentally tougher runner. Next time you're struggling in a race remember that feeling of the DNF

Murph_D

Mellow Yellow 26.2 wrote: »

DNFs are hard to take but they will make you a mentally tougher runner. Next time you're struggling in a race remember that feeling of the DNF

Does this mean we should all try it at least once? Or is there a downside that's worth being aware of - e.g. setting a precedent?

healy1835

Murph_D wrote: »

Does this mean we should all try it at least once? Or is there a downside that's worth being aware of - e.g. setting a precedent?

I'll let you know.....

MY BAD

Murph_D wrote: »

Does this mean we should all try it at least once? Or is there a downside that's worth being aware of - e.g. setting a precedent?

Should never try to do it, but probably inevitable at some stage

healy1835

DCM: Week 9 of 16
Much thanks to all and sundry for their thoughts on Saturday's ****-show. Parking it and moving on now, hasn't dented the confidence too much and we're still full steam ahead for October.

Mon: 13k Easy: 1:04:12 @4:58/km

Tue: 14k Easy: 1:11:32 @5:04/km

Wed: Session: 6x1 Mile off 2mins

5:45, 5:41, 5:44, 5:41, 5:41, 5:41

After work in the Camp on my regular tempo loop. No company for this one, but dialled straight into the pace (target was 5:45-5:40) and really enjoyed this one. Effort levels were upped a little for last 600m of the 5th rep and the last rep, but recovered pretty quickly afterwards. Nice to get another hard session in the bag.

About 18k for the day.

Murph_D

healy1835 wrote: »

DCM: Week 9 of 16
Much thanks to all and sundry for their thoughts on Saturday's ****-show. Parking it and moving on now, hasn't dented the confidence too much and we're still full steam ahead for October.

Mon: 13k Easy: 1:04:12 @4:58/km

Tue: 14k Easy: 1:11:32 @5:04/km

Wed: Session: 6x1 Mile off 2mins

5:45, 5:41, 5:44, 5:41, 5:41, 5:41

After work in the Camp on my regular tempo loop. No company for this one, but dialled straight into the pace (target was 5:45-5:40) and really enjoyed this one. Effort levels were upped a little for last 600m of the 5th rep and the last rep, but recovered pretty quickly afterwards. Nice to get another hard session in the bag.

About 18k for the day.

With all due respect J - if the DNF was a first (or not), I think parking and moving on is not necessarily the best reaction. I hope you don’t mind this kind of commment. A catastrophic exit from a race doesn’t seem like something best pushed under the carpet. Any reflections or thoughts?

healy1835

Murph_D wrote: »

With all due respect J - if the DNF was a first (or not), I think parking and moving on is not necessarily the best reaction. I hope you don’t mind this kind of commment. A catastrophic exit from a race doesn’t seem like something best pushed under the carpet. Any reflections or thoughts?

Not at all Murph. Well yeah it's a first DNF where I just threw in the towel. I ran Limerick HM after being sick and had to drop out but I should never have even attempted to run that day.

Reflections or thoughts.......well there were a few bits and pieces that might have contributed that I've mentioned already; heat, lack of sleep etc. However, I wasn't suffering really. It was the thoughts of digging in and the work ahead that seemed to trigger it. I was on pace, the race was more or less going to plan. For whatever reason I didn't think that continuing was the best option. It was mental.

The fact that I haven't tapered for these races and had put in a heavy enough block beforehand might have played a part. It's one thing for me to say that the race result isn't the main thing, it's another to execute the race like that. I was fine in the South Dublin 10k, ran a controlled 36:xx 90 secs+ over my PB, not so much in the FD. Maybe i just didn't want to come in without a sub 60 or a PB.

The decision to pull off was pretty instantaneous, I'd gotten a great shout off skyblue46 turning off Chesterfield Ave. and was planning the next few km in my head and then......

Parking it and moving on is me focusing on what I can do to prevent it from happening again, not dwelling on the FD. If it does happen again then there's most likely different conversations to have, but right now, I have to file it in the 'Once Off Not Going To Happen Again' folder.

healy1835

Thu: AM 10K: 51:23 @5:08/km
PM 9K: 44:42 @4:58/km

Fri: 8.2k: 37:51 @4:37/km
Reccie for following night's 5 Mile race

Sat: Ambition Run 5 Mile 30:46

Needless to say that this race was not on my radar before Frank Duffy. But, last Sat evening as I was about to settle into a 5th pint, the call came in from the man in charge, conversation was had, and the next thing you know I'm walking home with a bag of chips to get some rest and fluids on board before a 34k LR the following morning. By the time I'd reached the front door I had also entered a local 5 Miler. There was also a 10 Mile race on, but a 5 Mile or 10k was the preference.

Race plan was simple; forget about the clock, get out of my comfort zone & hurt like hell in the last mile. The clock wasn't a problem as the 5 Mile course was, in addition to being almost 400m long, an absolute pig of a course.

Race started, and whilst a chap set off at about 5:20 pace, there was another runner from the club, a fairly decorated 800/1500/5000/XC masters athlete who I figured would be a good man to try and keep in my sights. 1st km all uphill with a sharpish descent after. First Mile 5:41.

5:20 pace chap had fallen away just before the first mile. I'm in 2nd, about 10 secs back. 2nd Mile is entirely uphill and the hardest mile i've ever raced before! Have proper jelly legs going on at the top of the climb with my comfort zone having been left behind halfway up the bloody climb 6:23 Mile 2

Third mile was, naturally enough, downhill for the most part but it was down a country lane. Surface was really ropey, late evening sun breaking through the trees and hedges made visibility really poor too. There were a couple of blind sections if I'm honest, so I took the descent a little more carefully then if it was out on a decent road. 5:49 Mile 3.

Bumpy last couple of miles on a fairly straight road. Couple of nasty little drags in there, just what the legs needed! 5:51,5:44 for miles 4 & 5 which got me through 5 Miles in 29:28, which although more than a minute down on Raheny PB from January, felt as much of an achievement. 5:44 for the last bit, which in this case was about 400m! Both races started and finished at a local car dealership, the 10 Mile was accurate so I don't know if the 5 Mile was a late add on or not, but 400m is quite the discrepancy. I'd been gaining on the winner through the last mile, and finished about 30 seconds back in 2nd in a time of 30:46.

A badly needed performance after last weeks effort. Onwards.

500k for August

Sun: 25k Relaxed: 1:55:35 @4:37/km

115k for the Week

AuldManKing

Good man - fair play. Super mileage for Aug. and a great performance at that 5.25m race.

OOnegative

Super stuff J - very well done man.

Singer

Nice race, report and milage

Shame about that 5th pint!

healy1835

DCM 2019: Week 10 of 16? Or is that 9 of 16?

Mon: 13.2k Easy: 1:05:43 @4:59/km

Tue: AM: 7.5k: 37:02 @4:56/km
PM: 11k: 52:04 @4:44/km

Pair of commutes.

Wed: 10x400m Hills.

Was in the city for a work thing, so got up to the PP early and figured i'd park on the bumpier side of the park and find a hill during my warm up......which led me to choosing Islandbridge Gate to the Magazine Fort. Not sure if this is one people use regularly, but it resulted in a decent session for me anyway. 10 Miles for the day.

Thu: 16.5k: 1:21:39 @4:57/km

Fri: Another pair of commutes.
AM: 7.5k: 36:43 @4:52/km
PM: 10k: 47:00 @4:42/km

Sat: 8 Mile Tempo: 47:47 @3:43/km

Lets get it out of the way first. This was a pretty indisciplined run as the instructions were to run no quicker than 6:10 miles. Did this up in the camp on my regular tempo loop, early afternoon, sun shining, wearing the Next %'s to break them in ahead of the HM in a couple of weeks and DCM.

Started out and i was just feeling it straight from the off. I'd the workout programmed in and i had it set to show average pace for the 8 Mile section and i was checking at the end of each loop, about 1.3k. Started off averaging 3:50/km and just seemed to be getting quicker with no noticeable change in effort levels. I just went with it, and ended up running the last 3 miles about 5:50 pace according to the splits. Im also nearly certain that if i hadn't the workout programmed in i would have just kept going and broke 60 for the 10 miles. I clearly had FD race still on my mind from a couple of weeks back and wanted to prove that this pace was no big issue for me. Im also pretty sure it could prove counter productive as it was clearly a very hard effort, even if it didn't feel like it on the day.
Sent the workout to the boss afterwards, hasn't got back to me yet....

About 18k for the day.

Sun: 32k Easy: 2:33:35 @4:48/km

Didn't go too hard with the previous days efforts in mind. Beautiful morning to run and the legs felt strong.

132k for the Week

Any thoughts on the above would be appreciated.

OOnegative

We all have a tendency to over cook sessions J, but I don’t think you totally messed the tempo up. Continuing & running a sub 60 10 mile would have done that. The pace is in the legs, save it for race day. Hope the boss gives you a bo!!icking!!

Singer

How did you find the Nexts? I have an untouched pair hidden away upstairs that'll be used next month!

healy1835

Singer wrote: »

How did you find the Nexts? I have an untouched pair hidden away upstairs that'll be used next month!

Yeah I was in a similar situation, but I would need to have worn them in a race before DCM to put my mind at rest Clearly they had some sort of role to play in me over egging this particular pudding, but they did feel pretty good. Similar to the VaporFly's of course, but not quite as (for want of a better word) 'squishy'. Looking forward to wearing them in the HM and DCM. I know people have mixed views on them, but I like them and find them great to run in.

healy1835

OOnegative wrote: »

We all have a tendency to over cook sessions J, but I don’t think you totally messed the tempo up. Continuing & running a sub 60 10 mile would have done that. The pace is in the legs, save it for race day. Hope the boss gives you a bo!!icking!!

Got away with this one.....he didn't seem too concerned. But it's not to happen again

Sheep1978

I may have missed it in another post above, but have you set a target for DCM yet.?

healy1835

Sheep1978 wrote: »

I may have missed it in another post above, but have you set a target for DCM yet.?

I actually don't think I've talked about goals during this block yet....but they haven't changed in my head at all.

A Goal: Sub 2:50
B Goal: Sub 2:55
C Goal: PB (2:58:01 is soft enough)

To be honest, I flip flap a a bit when I think about going under 2:50 in Oct. I certainly think I can, but I feel like I might need 2 marathons to get there. Somedays I think 2:50 is on, somedays I'm not so sure. I'm naturally cautious when it comes to targeting times, esp in Marathons.

AuldManKing

healy1835 wrote: »

I actually don't think I've talked about goals during this block yet....but they haven't changed in my head at all.

A Goal: Sub 2:50
B Goal: Sub 2:55
C Goal: PB (2:58:01 is soft enough)

To be honest, I flip flap a a bit when I think about going under 2:50 in Oct. I certainly think I can, but I feel like I might need 2 marathons to get there. Somedays I think 2:50 is on, somedays I'm not so sure. I'm naturally cautious when it comes to targeting times, esp in Marathons.

If you were running Berlin, I'm confident you'd do a 2.4x - DCM has a bit of X-Factor thrown in, but it also has super crowds.

I'd say running Berlin (or any flat marathon) you'd do even splits, but for DCM you could do a 2.49 if you pace it well enough on the 1st half inclines and dont let the crowds in the PP, Castleknock, Chapelizod drive you faster.

healy1835

AuldManKing wrote: »

If you were running Berlin, I'm confident you'd do a 2.4x - DCM has a bit of X-Factor thrown in, but it also has super crowds.

I'd say running Berlin (or any flat marathon) you'd do even splits, but for DCM you could do a 2.49 if you pace it well enough on the 1st half inclines and dont let the crowds in the PP, Castleknock, Chapelizod drive you faster.

Welcome back A between yourself, OONegative, DD and Swashbuckler taking some periods away my log has been a lot quieter

Thanks for the vote of confidence! I was quite disciplined in DCM up to Chapelizod last year, but maybe wound things up too early from around 20k to 30k, but who knows...those deliberations are a few weeks away yet. I have some serious Berlin envy going on at the moment. The dream would be to have ran a Fast Runner qualifying time by next Summer, but that's probably a long shot.

I do love Dublin though, my favourite race without doubt. As things stand I've gone 3:39,3:19,2:58 in my 3 outings so you can expect me coming in somewhere around 2:38/39 this year

Also knocking around the deepest chasms of my mind is that I've gone overseas twice, Berlin '17 & Rotterdam '18, and both (for varying reasons, Berlin - chance, Rotterdam - me) were very underwhelming performances. I need to scratch that itch and run a decent marathon overseas.

Swashbuckler

healy1835 wrote:

Any thoughts on the above would be appreciated.

Hard to question a man knocking out the training and mileage you're doing lad! Keep doing what you're doing

healy1835

DCM '19: Week 11 of 17

Mon: 6k Easy: 29:33 @4:56/km

Had a splitting headache and decided to turn off route and head home as there was no point in running 10 Miles + with my head pounding. Had an epsom bath when i got home and felt a hell of a lot better for it

Tue: AM: 7.5k: 35:45 @4:56/km
PM: 11k: 51:32 @4:41/km

Pair of commutes.

Wed: Session: 20x400m off 45secs.

Just about squeezed this in, was in jeopardy of falling by the wayside for a while. Plan was to take the reps nice and controlled + relaxed and get into a nice rhythm.

80, 79, 77, 78, 79, 79, 80, 79, 78, 78
80, 77, 79, 79, 79, 79, 78, 78, 78, 78

Target was around 80 secs and i pretty much did exactly what was on the tin. No heroics today, felt strong. Don't think I've done 20 off 45secs recovery before. It was pleasing to hit those splits without pushing the boat out.

Just over 10 miles for the day.

Wubble Wubble

Some brilliant training being logged here.

I'd long forgotten that you were a DCM 2016 Graduate, until I spotted one of your posts while dusting off the cobwebs from that thread recently. Unbelievable progression over the marathon distance in the space of three years. Keep up the good work!