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Tenants in property when I took ownership

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    #32
    Uncle Ben
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,843 ✭✭✭Uncle Ben


    gkelly88 wrote: »
    Hey folks
    I've recently bought an apartment off receivers at auction and got the keys last week. There are tenants in situ with no lease in place. I contacted them to give them my contact details and asked them to contact me within 7 days to arrange for me to call and see them regarding rent collection, putting a lease in place, doing an inventory, etc. But they haven't made any contact.

    I'm wondering what are my rights as the landlord with entering the property? Can I do so without their permission? Also seeing these tenants have lived there without a lease, what are my options if I want to evict? Are they automatically entitled to a lease?

    Thanks in advance :)

    Don't mind me asking but have you ever set foot in the place?


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    #33
    Baralis1
    Registered Users Posts: 350 ✭✭Baralis1


    Askthe EA wrote: »
    The point of the previous posts was the tenants are not making contact despite his best efforts. If you think that a landlord cannot access his property just because all his attempts at making contact with them are ignored then that's just daft.

    He can't, he needs to consult with a solicitor and follow the legal route.
    Any action outside of this may harm his legal case in the future.


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    #34
    Askthe EA
    Registered Users Posts: 724 ✭✭✭Askthe EA


    Baralis1 wrote: »
    He can't, he needs to consult with a solicitor and follow the legal route

    He can. I've dealt with this exact situation. We got legal advice and did exactly as I suggested above. If one party refuses to engage despite your best efforts then any court will find in your favour.

    Having said that, the registered letter flushed them out. I'd definitely agree that legal opinion be sought mind you.

    Actually, OP, are you sure they are still there?


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    #35
    Askthe EA
    Registered Users Posts: 724 ✭✭✭Askthe EA


    This situation has intrigued me so I did some digging and found this from an article in the IT by a property expert.

    You as a landlord are entitled to access the dwelling for the purpose of an inspection. A tenant’s obligation under Section 16(c) of the Tenancies Act 2004-2015 is “to allow, at reasonable intervals, the landlord, or any other person or persons acting on the landlord’s behalf, access to the dwelling (on a date and time agreed in advance with the tenant) for the purposes of inspecting the dwelling”.

    If you wish to inspect the dwelling then you must agree a date and time with the tenant. However if the tenant refuses you access to the dwelling, they will be in breach of tenant obligations. A tenant is entitled to a reasonable time to remedy a breach of obligations.
    You should first write to your tenants outlining the breach and request a mutually agreeable time for the inspection.
    If the tenants do not remedy the breach within the reasonable period specified in the notice you must issue a 28-day notice of termination for breach of tenant obligations.


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    #36
    Baralis1
    Registered Users Posts: 350 ✭✭Baralis1


    Askthe EA wrote: »
    This situation has intrigued me so I did some digging and found this from an article in the IT by a property expert.

    You as a landlord are entitled to access the dwelling for the purpose of an inspection. A tenant’s obligation under Section 16(c) of the Tenancies Act 2004-2015 is “to allow, at reasonable intervals, the landlord, or any other person or persons acting on the landlord’s behalf, access to the dwelling (on a date and time agreed in advance with the tenant) for the purposes of inspecting the dwelling”.

    If you wish to inspect the dwelling then you must agree a date and time with the tenant. However if the tenant refuses you access to the dwelling, they will be in breach of tenant obligations. A tenant is entitled to a reasonable time to remedy a breach of obligations.
    You should first write to your tenants outlining the breach and request a mutually agreeable time for the inspection.
    If the tenants do not remedy the breach within the reasonable period specified in the notice you must issue a 28-day notice of termination for breach of tenant obligations.

    Yes, it doesn't say anywhere there that you can enter the property without agreement with the tenant (excluding emergencies). After the notice period the dispute moves on to the PTRB etc


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    #37
    4ensic15
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,691 ✭✭✭4ensic15


    Baralis1 wrote: »
    Yes, it doesn't say anywhere there that you can enter the property without agreement with the tenant (excluding emergencies). After the notice period the dispute moves on to the PTRB etc

    Only in this case the o/p can't go to the RTB.


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    #38
    Baralis1
    Registered Users Posts: 350 ✭✭Baralis1


    4ensic15 wrote: »
    Only in this case the o/p can't go to the RTB.

    Why not? Is he not automatically the landlord after buying the property? I'm curious too if the op has ever actually viewed the property before buying


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    #39
    4ensic15
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,691 ✭✭✭4ensic15


    Baralis1 wrote: »
    Why not? Is he not automatically the landlord after buying the property? I'm curious too if the op has ever actually viewed the property before buying

    He hasn't registered as owner has he?


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    #40
    jsd1004
    Registered Users Posts: 719 ✭✭✭jsd1004


    randomCluster wrote: »
    You bought an investment property without doing a proper inspection. Or any inspection. You're now on boards seeking advice. Get your act together and talk to a solicitor.

    +1 and a solicitor is going to cost you a fortune


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    #41
    IRAC War
    Closed Accounts Posts: 102 ✭✭IRAC War


    Askthe EA wrote: »
    This situation has intrigued me so I did some digging and found this from an article in the IT by a property expert.

    You as a landlord are entitled to access the dwelling for the purpose of an inspection. A tenant’s obligation under Section 16(c) of the Tenancies Act 2004-2015 is “to allow, at reasonable intervals, the landlord, or any other person or persons acting on the landlord’s behalf, access to the dwelling (on a date and time agreed in advance with the tenant) for the purposes of inspecting the dwelling”.

    If you wish to inspect the dwelling then you must agree a date and time with the tenant. However if the tenant refuses you access to the dwelling, they will be in breach of tenant obligations. A tenant is entitled to a reasonable time to remedy a breach of obligations.
    You should first write to your tenants outlining the breach and request a mutually agreeable time for the inspection.
    If the tenants do not remedy the breach within the reasonable period specified in the notice you must issue a 28-day notice of termination for breach of tenant obligations.

    Yes but to clarify on your earlier erroneous statements you can't resort to self help. Suggesting as much with a username that connotes that you should know what you're posting about is a tad irresponsible.

    OP Don't change the locks or enter the property without seeking proper legal advice. Without wanting to sound melodramatic there is a constitutional right in Ireland to inviolability of the dwelling, notwithstanding it being owned (a concept not properly understood it seems in the concept of real property) by someone else and event the rent not being paid. While I don't wish to continue the head banging in regard to you having dared by a investment property - these are all things which you have to factor into getting involved in this game.


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    #42
    K.Flyer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,565 ✭✭✭K.Flyer


    Sounds like a nightmare.
    If the tenants were never previously registered with PRTB, and do not engage with the O.P. whatsoever, what are the PRTB going to be able to do for him? Nothing as far as I can see.
    Is there no time frame as to when an owner of a let property, after no communications from tenants, despite all attempts, can enter the property on the presumption that the tenants may have vacated?


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    #43
    Sad Professor
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,678 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sad Professor


    K.Flyer wrote: »
    Sounds like a nightmare.
    If the tenants were never previously registered with PRTB, and do not engage with the O.P. whatsoever, what are the PRTB going to be able to do for him? Nothing as far as I can see.
    Is there no time frame as to when an owner of a let property, after no communications from tenants, despite all attempts, can enter the property on the presumption that the tenants may have vacated?

    I think this can be established without the landlord entering the property.


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    #44
    4ensic15
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,691 ✭✭✭4ensic15


    Sad Professor wrote: »
    I think this can be established without the landlord entering the property.

    How?


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    #45
    Smondie
    Registered Users Posts: 1,193 ✭✭✭Smondie


    4ensic15 wrote: »
    How?

    Look in the Windows?


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    #46
    K.Flyer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,565 ✭✭✭K.Flyer


    Smondie wrote: »
    Look in the Windows?

    Thats would not be sufficient. Anyway how are you going to look in through the windows of an apartment that may be on a 3rd or 4th floor or higher.


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    #47
    4ensic15
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,691 ✭✭✭4ensic15


    Smondie wrote: »
    Look in the Windows?

    What if the curtains are drawn, blinds closed?


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    #48
    Smondie
    Registered Users Posts: 1,193 ✭✭✭Smondie


    4ensic15 wrote: »
    What if the curtains are drawn, blinds closed?

    If you have tried to contact them for over a month with no response and the curtains drawn the whole time, call the cops.

    They lying dead inside


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    #49
    Sad Professor
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,678 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sad Professor


    K.Flyer wrote: »
    Thats would not be sufficient. Anyway how are you going to look in through the windows of an apartment that may be on a 3rd or 4th floor or higher.

    Pfft! Get a rope and some climbing gear. :pac:

    Landlords these days… they don't want to do anything for the tenant. :p


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    #50
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    Askthe EA wrote: »
    You can't trespass on your own property.
    Once there is a sitting tenant it is as good as their property, All tenants have the right to peaceful enjoyment of the property they rent/lease. A man's HOME is his Castle!
    Smondie wrote: »
    Unless there's a gas or a water leak or some other emergency...
    A legal minefield which could land the Landlord in hot water with the Gardai as well as in the courts!

    A gas/water leak or other emergency would have to be backed up with statements by the gas company, plumbers etc and if using the old "I thought the tenant was hurt" defence the Gardai would have to be called to enter the property.
    Askthe EA wrote: »
    It works both ways though.

    A tenant must;

    Give the landlord access (by appointment) for routine inspections.

    The landlord has made an appointment.
    The landlord must wait for the tenant to get in touch, for all they know the tenant might be in hospital or away for a few weeks.
    Askthe EA wrote: »
    The point of the previous posts was the tenants are not making contact despite his best efforts. If you think that a landlord cannot access his property just because all his attempts at making contact with them are ignored then that's just daft.
    No best efforts have been used yet!
    Askthe EA wrote: »
    This situation has intrigued me so I did some digging and found this from an article in the IT by a property expert.
    Your time would have been better spent reading the Residential Tenancies Act
    You as a landlord are entitled to access the dwelling for the purpose of an inspection. A tenant’s obligation under Section 16(c) of the Tenancies Act 2004-2015 is “to allow, at reasonable intervals, the landlord, or any other person or persons acting on the landlord’s behalf, access to the dwelling (on a date and time agreed in advance with the tenant) for the purposes of inspecting the dwelling”.

    If you wish to inspect the dwelling then you must agree a date and time with the tenant. However if the tenant refuses you access to the dwelling, they will be in breach of tenant obligations. A tenant is entitled to a reasonable time to remedy a breach of obligations.
    You should first write to your tenants outlining the breach and request a mutually agreeable time for the inspection.
    If the tenants do not remedy the breach within the reasonable period specified in the notice you must issue a 28-day notice of termination for breach of tenant obligations.
    In a case where the tenant has simply not responded they have NOT refused access to the landlord, they have simply not been in a position to respond to the request.
    4ensic15 wrote: »
    Originally Posted by Sad Professor View Post
    I think this can be established without the landlord entering the property.
    How?

    Best way of getting in touch with absent tenants is to arrive at the property and cut the grass and do any other garden maintenance and check the wheelie bins are not overflowing with rubbish.

    Under no circumstances enter the Dwelling or open any gate or door that is locked unless there is very obvious evidence of a REAL emergency(in which case neighbours will already have acted!).

    Bring with you a number of copies of the written request to inspect the property and asking that the tenant contact you to arrange a time and date that suits you both. Place these into A4 plastic pockets and attach them to several places around the property including the front gate, the front window, attach one across the door jamb of both the front and back(only if you have access to the back) doors to make a seal, photograph each notice as you place it showing the date it was placed, place one through the letterbox.

    In the letter you should ask them to contact you and possibly inform them that you wish to meet your new tenants in order to regularise the agreement with them, also add that you need to hear from them within 28 days of the date of the letter and that you will enter the property 28 days from that final date if you do not hear from them.


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