PS4 Pro general stuff.

Captain Chaos

On some 4K TVs gaming mode actually makes the input lag much,much worse, you should read some reviews.

EoinHef

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

No one is saying it is as good however it is really impressive.

Sitting back a good few feet from the 55 inch 4K TV and the results are there to be seen. Try not buy into all the hype from Sony. I recommend people use their own eyes rather than posting articles to sell their point of view.

We play competitive Rainbow 6 Siege at the highest ranks so we are very alert to input lag of any kind.

Your that MLG that you can detect milliseconds of difference??

Playing rainbow 6 at the "highest ranks" does not make anyone expert on input lag

johnny_ultimate

EoinHef wrote: »

l
Playing rainbow 6 at the "highest ranks" does not make anyone expert on input lag

I don't know man, I play Everybody's Gone to The Rapture at the highes ranks and could absolutely tell if there was a millisecond delay between me pushing the button and the character breaking into a very light jog.

FAILSAFE 00

EoinHef wrote: »

Your that MLG that you can detect milliseconds of difference??

Playing rainbow 6 at the "highest ranks" does not make anyone expert on input lag

LOL, Did I say I was an expert in input lag?

I pointed out that if there if there was significant input lag at 4K we'd be easily able to tell. Putting to bed the argument that without Sony's magic upscaler gamers will get horrible input lag.

EoinHef

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

LOL, Did I say I was an expert in input lag?

I pointed out that if there if there was significant input lag at 4K we'd be easily able to tell. Putting to bed the argument that without Sony's magic upscaler gamers will get horrible input lag.

You implied your expert level in rainbow 6 made you better placed to judge input lag,i say thats rubbish.....

FAILSAFE 00

EoinHef wrote: »

You implied your expert level in rainbow 6 made you better placed to judge input lag,i say thats rubbish.....

Did you not make the team bro?

Failsafe wrote:

We play competitive Rainbow 6 Siege at the highest ranks so we are very alert to input lag of any kind.

I am simply sharing my 4K experience. If there was an issue I'd notice instanstly.
I'd expect any decent FPS player to tell if there is an issue with input lag by even a tiny amount.

Anyway, my point is do not buy into the hype that you need Sony's magic upscaler or you'll be crippled with input lag. Gamers are already using 4k displays with Xbox One and PS4.

EoinHef

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

Did you not make the team bro?


I am simply sharing my 4K experience. If there was an issue I'd notice instanstly.
I'd expect any decent FPS player to tell if there is an issue with input lag by even a tiny amount.

Anyway, my point is do not buy into the hype that you need Sony's magic upscaler or you'll be crippled with input lag. Gamers are already using 4k displays with Xbox One and PS4.

Id just expect most "pro gamers" to use it as an excuse for being crap....your not going to notice a few milliseconds in the difference.

Penn

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

Sitting back a good few feet from the 55 inch 4K TV and the results are there to be seen. Try not buy into all the hype from Sony. I recommend people use their own eyes rather than posting articles to sell their point of view.

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

I am simply sharing my 4K experience. If there was an issue I'd notice instanstly.
I'd expect any decent FPS player to tell if there is an issue with input lag by even a tiny amount.

Anyway, my point is do not buy into the hype that you need Sony's magic upscaler or you'll be crippled with input lag. Gamers are already using 4k displays with Xbox One and PS4.

You say we shouldn't buy into Sony's "hype" yet you're attributing things they haven't said to them and saying we shouldn't believe it. Nobody said Sony's 4k upscaling will reduce lag. A previous poster merely said that good 4k hdr tvs with low input lag are still mostly pretty expensive.

jcd5971

FAILSAFE 00 wrote:

I am simply sharing my 4K experience. If there was an issue I'd notice instanstly. I'd expect any decent FPS player to tell if there is an issue with input lag by even a tiny amount.

In general I don't agree with anything you say, but in this case your 100% correct. Input lag is very obvious, for example I can tell the difference clearly between my benq 1ms refresh rate monitor and my 26ms Sony TV.

Now most tvs average around 50-60 ms and about mid 20s in game mode.

It is honestly quite obvious, so I'd well believe that if he is a top lvl rainbow six player he'd spot the lag in a FPS.

jcd5971

EoinHef wrote:

Id just expect most "pro gamers" to use it as an excuse for being crap....your not going to notice a few milliseconds in the difference.

I'm an average player and it's obvious even to me.

Try to play any ps4 shooter hef and record your footage, then watch it back and you can usually see where you were the fraction of a second of everytime.

moc moc a moc

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

We play competitive Rainbow 6 Siege at the highest ranks so we are very alert to input lag of any kind.

Not that I'm disagreeing with the input lag issue, but if you're playing games on a television instead of a gaming monitor, you're clearly not playing at the "highest ranks".

EoinHef

jcd5971 wrote: »

I'm an average player and it's obvious even to me.

Try to play any ps4 shooter hef and record your footage, then watch it back and you can usually see where you were the fraction of a second of everytime.

If your getting the advertised gtg rates,your saying your noticing 25/1000 of 1 second difference....im not buying it.

Now im sure there is a point where it becomes noticable but at that level i dont believe its noticable.

McDermotX

Re: 4K

What'd you'd really want to consider is the fact that game modes are disabled once HDR signals are detected (haven't heard of one model that functions otherwise), so you're going to have to live with added input lag using the HDR mode of your TV if you want to play Pro games featuring HDR.
That could be an issue going forward with the current implementation of 4K HDR on TVs. This is assuming that HDR gaming is going to operate in a similar manner to other UHD sources.

Of course, until games land we can't know for certain (unfortunately Forza's demo doesn't have the feature).

jcd5971

EoinHef wrote:

If your getting the advertised gtg rates,your saying your noticing 25/1000 of 1 second difference....im not buying it.

As I said my TV panel in gaming mode is supposedly 28ms which I'm assuming it is.

My benq gaming monitor is supposedly 1ms I'm assuming it is.

I have no way to test either.

Now there is a massively noticeable difference for me between the 2 displays.
This isn't just bias either I mainly play destiny ps4 and when I'm using the monitor my kd is always better.

I just seem to better in every engagement. It's a combination action of input lag and display lag.

If you doubt it that's fine. I can't convince you tbf

EoinHef

jcd5971 wrote: »

As I said my TV panel in gaming mode is supposedly 28ms which I'm assuming it is.

My benq gaming monitor is supposedly 1ms I'm assuming it is.

I have no way to test either.

Now there is a massively noticeable difference for me between the 2 displays.
This isn't just bias either I mainly play destiny ps4 and when I'm using the monitor my kd is always better.

I just seem to better in every engagement. It's a combination action of input lag and display lag.

If you doubt it that's fine. I can't convince you tbf

If you feel you notice a difference then fair enough,i cant convince you that the difference is so small you cant notice it either.

Ive used a 5ms 23" monitor and a 40" samsung for the PS4,cant say ive noticed a difference playing on either. And i play plenty of shooters too ie CoD,Destiny,BF etc

EoinHef

Ive said it a few times now but the fact Sony went with the same CPU for the pro is majorly disappointing. Its the piece of hardware thats going to have trouble running games at 60fps.

Eurogamer allude to it in one of their articles today,200% GPU power boost but a 30% boost to CPU clocks. Its even the same architecture so cant expect it to have any benefits from a new architecture. Its really just things will look a bit prettier but still have the same s**t framerates as standard PS4.

They say they built it to stop people going to PC,if thats the case they havent achieved what they set out to do. Its a low end PC with none of the benefits!! People say PC's are expensive but a proper HDR 4K TV and a PS4 Pro will cost a hell of a lot more than a good PC and a nice monitor.

The article for anyone interested:

www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2016-what-if-ps4-pro-uncharted-4-ran-at-60fps

FAILSAFE 00

They should have stuck to 1080p rather than 4K.

Build a console that could constantly do 60fps across a wide variety of titles.

Captain Chaos

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

They should have stuck to 1080p rather than 4K.

Build a console that could constantly do 60fps across a wide variety of titles.

It's the same thing really, they are aiming for 4K at 30fps which should equal 1080p at 60 fps performance across all games finally as that is what was promised since the PS3 days. All games from October will have graphic options for HDR and 4K scaling if your TV allows for it and if you are playing on a Pro or not.

The problem will be cross gen games being locked to 30fps for online.

You will be lucky to see 1080p VR games with the Neo as FPS is king.

heebusjeebus

Interesting OP on this NeoGaf thread around the omission of the Ultra BluRay drive.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1278279

...our industry sources tell us that Sony Consumer Electronics doesn’t want a UHD-capable PlayStation 4 Pro to undercut sales of its forthcoming set-top 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray player, which is expected in early 2017...

And....

you could see Sony Interactive Entertainment surprise people with a firmware update that adds full 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray Disc compatibility to the PlayStation 4 Pro.

Personally, I've no interest in Ultra blu ray discs as I've not bought or rented a single blu ray since I got my PS4 a few years ago. The days of optical media for movies is at an end (for me at least). It's all Plex or Netflix from now on.

Otacon

heebusjeebus wrote: »

Interesting OP on this NeoGaf thread around the omission of the Ultra BluRay drive.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1278279
...

From the same thread though... (link)

Speaking to the Guardian after the company’s PlayStation Meeting event in New York, House said it would not be possible to add support for UHD discs in a later firmware update, but argued that such support was unnecessary.

Not sure Andrew House would be unaware of this possibility, if it were true.

Penn

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

They should have stuck to 1080p rather than 4K.

Build a console that could constantly do 60fps across a wide variety of titles.

Disagree. With a sizable number of games having online elements, having the Pro at 1080p/60fps and normal PS4 at 1080p/30fps is an unlevel playing field.

I think they're making the right call and as has been announced for some games already, having different graphical modes (4k/30fps, 1080p/60fps, 1080p/30fps) gives the player an option for which they would prefer. The added power of the Pro enables 1080p/60fps as well as 4k/30fps. The onus is on the developers to make it happen, not Sony.

FAILSAFE 00

Penn wrote: »

Disagree. With a sizable number of games having online elements, having the Pro at 1080p/60fps and normal PS4 at 1080p/30fps is an unlevel playing field.

I think they're making the right call and as has been announced for some games already, having different graphical modes (4k/30fps, 1080p/60fps, 1080p/30fps) gives the player an option for which they would prefer. The added power of the Pro enables 1080p/60fps as well as 4k/30fps. The onus is on the developers to make it happen, not Sony.

I didn't mention multiplayer. From the looks of things the vast majority of 30fps titles on PS4 will stay locked to 30fps on the PS4 Pro due to using the same 3 year old CPU that is in the PS4.

That's a shame. They had a great opportunity but sadly they didn't grasp it.

Captain Chaos

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

I didn't mention multiplayer. From the looks of things the vast majority of 30fps titles on PS4 will stay locked to 30fps on the PS4 Pro due to using the same 3 year old CPU that is in the PS4.

That's a shame. They had a great opportunity but sadly they didn't grasp it.

It's because they don't want to case a sh1t storm by giving Pro players a massive advantage in multiplayer games. Single player games will have a performance advantage, all this has been covered. COD will be running a 4K upscaled at 60fps on the Pro not 30fps.

Sony don't want to segregrate the market. Nothing to do with a 3 year old CPU.

The Scorpio will be the same if MS want to keep paririty with the One S even though the Scorpio GPU with 300% more powerful than the One S.

Penn

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

I didn't mention multiplayer. From the looks of things the vast majority of 30fps titles on PS4 will stay locked to 30fps on the PS4 Pro due to using the same 3 year old CPU that is in the PS4.

That's a shame. They had a great opportunity but sadly they didn't grasp it.

Well obviously games currently at 30fps will stay at 30fps unless the developer patches the game to enable 60fps, which they may or may not do. And games won't stay locked to 30fps because of the CPU, as evident by the games they've already announced which will get a bump in framerates. The overclocking of the CPU and the 4.2teraflops of the GPU will help enable a greater framerate, again, if the developers choose to make use of it and patch it in.

Will it work with every game? Probably not. Will every developer do it? Probably not. But it's up to the developers to work it in and match other games which have been able to achieve it. They've been given the architecture to do it, and obviously it's achievable given games like Uncharted 4, The Last of Us Remastered and Rise of the Tomb Raider being able to do it.

Captain Chaos

True also you have some games with unlocked framerates like on the Xbox One S with only a small spec bump, these games are seeing frame rate improvements with no patches required.

Penn

Captain Chaos wrote: »

True also you have some games with unlocked framerates like on the Xbox One S with only a small spec bump, these games are seeing frame rate improvements with no patches required.

Sorry yes, if the framerate isn't locked then the game will see a better, more stable framerate without the need for a patch.

MilesMorales1

I was talking to the sales bloke in Gamestop today, and he said a PS4 500gb would be worth either 185 or 195 when traded in towards a PS4 pro. Doesn't sound too bad considering the slim is out now and all.

Varik

What brand was the original 500GB HDD, got 2 here and I'm not sure which it is.

R.F.

Varik wrote: »

What brand was the original 500GB HDD, got 2 here and I'm not sure which it is.

Mine was a Hitachi

Varik

neither of the ones I found are it then (samsung & hgst), just going to put the the hgst as it's less branded (maybe they won't check if it's coming up as 500GB).