PS4 Pro general stuff.

FAILSAFE 00 · 22-02-2017 4:21pm

EoinHef wrote: »

Firstly,where did i mention PS5? Id expect the PS5 to be a big jump from the PS4,not an iterative update like the Pro. Scorpio will also be iterative,its also mostly just a gpu upgrade from what i see. Pro and Scorpio will always be limited to games that can run on the OG PS4 and One,if you dont think thats a handicap your not seeing whats right in front of you.

Again. On a PC running a GTX 1080 are games limited because developers need to make games that can run on older cards such as the GTX 970 and earlier models. No. They make games to run across a wide spectrum of builds. The minimum spec for a Battlefield 1 capable graphics card is a GTX 660 2GB.

If its not an issue on PC why should this some how become an issue on console?

EoinHef wrote: »

If you think PC hasnt progressed in the last 10 years you havent either been using a PC that long or its lost on you. PC is a totally different beast to console. Try running a demanding modern game on a mid range system from 5 years ago. Games on PC push the envelope all the time thus depending on what you play necessitates upgrades more often than console.

We are talking about 2012 onwards. Not 10 years. If you have upgraded your PC as I have over the last few years you are not getting some massive generation leap you talk about when mentioning PS3 and Xbox 360. You get nicer graphics and improved performance/ frame rate, etc.

So why should people upgrade their PC but not upgrade their Xbox One to a Scorpio?

In relation to the Scorpio we will have to wait and see. Its looking more and more like it will be based on new AMD tech that is to be released. Which would make sense because to deliver a 4K capable console at the moment on current market tech would price it well out of the console market. During AMD presentations for the new Ryzen and Vega line they have mentioned working with Xbox. Also in an AMD booth recently they were all on the same banner together.

FAILSAFE 00 · 22-02-2017 4:30pm

Penn wrote: »

Agreed, and it's the same as I've been saying about the Scorpio since it was announced. By saying all Xbox One games will work on both Scorpio and the launch Xbox One, it means console upgrades like the PS4 Pro and the Scorpio may offer better graphics and framerates, but they will always be tied to the launch PS4/XB1 architecture.

Its going to be tied to the that same architecture for an incredibly long time so thats a non issue.

Remember its in PlayStation and Xbox best interest to stay on that same architecture for as long as possible. They'll never have to deal with issues such as backward compatibility again. It wouldn't go across well if there was an architecture change when we have hundreds of PS4 and Xbox One games in our games library.

Penn · 22-02-2017 4:44pm

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

Its going to be tied to the that same architecture for an incredibly long time so thats a non issue.

Remember its in PlayStation and Xbox best interest to stay on that same architecture for as long as possible. They'll never have to deal with issues such as backward compatibility again. It wouldn't go across well if there was an architecture change when we have hundreds of PS4 and Xbox One games in our games library.

Depends on how necessary that change was for a next-gen console in terms of both cost and performance.

EoinHef · 22-02-2017 5:43pm

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

Again. On a PC running a GTX 1080 are games limited because developers need to make games that can run on older cards such as the GTX 970 and earlier models. No. They make games to run across a wide spectrum of builds. The minimum spec for a Battlefield 1 capable graphics card is a GTX 660 2GB.

If its not an issue on PC why should this some how become an issue on console?

Of course games are limited by the older tech,if BF1's tartget system was an i7 7700K,a 1080 and 32gb of 4000Mhz DDR4 as the minimum,would we have the same game we have now? Not a chance. So they have to decide how compatible they want the game to be on a range of systems so theres always a lowest common denomimator. Some games on PC dont care about scaling across many systems and these are the ones people usually upgrade for.

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

We are talking about 2012 onwards. Not 10 years. If you have upgraded your PC as I have over the last few years you are not getting some massive generation leap you talk about when mentioning PS3 and Xbox 360. You get nicer graphics and improved performance/ frame rate, etc.

So why should people upgrade their PC but not upgrade their Xbox One to a Scorpio?

As some games just wont run well on older hardware on PC that would be the reason to upgrade. New games that push newer tech also. I dont uograde my PC to play games from 2012 with slightly shinier graphics. That enough of a reason for you?

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

In relation to the Scorpio we will have to wait and see. Its looking more and more like it will be based on new AMD tech that is to be released. Which would make sense because to deliver a 4K capable console at the moment on current market tech would price it well out of the console market. During AMD presentations for the new Ryzen and Vega line they have mentioned working with Xbox. Also in an AMD booth recently they were all on the same banner together.

Exactly,a gpu upgrade and thats about it.

EDIT: And just to clarify that i never said people shouldnt upgrade,what i said was I dont see the point in upgrading to play games you can already play on a console you already have. Each to their own though,people can spend there money how they like and its none of my business.

FAILSAFE 00 · 22-02-2017 6:13pm

EoinHef wrote: »

Of course games are limited by the older tech,if BF1's tartget system was an i7 7700K,a 1080 and 32gb of 4000Mhz DDR4 as the minimum,would we have the same game we have now? Not a chance. So they have to decide how compatible they want the game to be on a range of systems so theres always a lowest common denomimator. Some games on PC dont care about scaling across many systems and these are the ones people usually upgrade for.

As some games just wont run well on older hardware on PC that would be the reason to upgrade. New games that push newer tech also. I dont uograde my PC to play games from 2012 with slightly shinier graphics. That enough of a reason for you?

What I am highlighting is game developers make games work across a wide variety of PC builds from entry to enthusiast level without having to cripple games for the higher end of the market so why do you believe this is going to be an issue for PlayStation and Xbox.

EoinHef wrote: »

Exactly,a gpu upgrade and thats about it.

Incorrect. There is of course a CPU upgrade. You don't honestly believe an Xbox One CPU could power a native 4K gaming console. Ryzen is a product line of CPU from AMD's new Zen architecture. It might be in the Scorpio.

Penn · 22-02-2017 6:20pm

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

What I am highlighting is game developers make games work across a wide variety of PC builds from entry to enthusiast level without having to cripple games for the higher end of the market so why do you believe this is going to be an issue for PlayStation and Xbox.

Incorrect. There is of course a CPU upgrade. You don't honestly believe an Xbox One CPU could power a native 4K gaming console. Ryzen is a product line of CPU from AMD's new Zen architecture. It might be in the Scorpio.

But again, it's the fact that all games released on the Scorpio will be playable on the launch Xbox One, which means no matter what they put into the Scorpio, the launch XB1 has to be capable of playing the same disk, which means they're always going to be limited to what the XB1 can do, and the Scorpio will likely only offer better graphics and framerates.

It won't be until both company's next gen consoles that games exclusive to those consoles will be able to truly take advantage in other areas such as map sizes, NPC count, enemy AI etc, as they won't have to worry about those games being playable on the launch XB1.

EoinHef · 22-02-2017 6:30pm

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

What I am highlighting is game developers make games work across a wide variety of PC builds from entry to enthusiast level without having to cripple games for the higher end of the market so why do you believe this is going to be an issue for PlayStation and Xbox.

Incorrect. There is of course a CPU upgrade. You don't honestly believe an Xbox One CPU could power a native 4K gaming console. Ryzen is a product line of CPU from AMD's new Zen architecture. It might be in the Scorpio.

But they are crippling them,again,of the target minimum for BF1 was a 7700K,a gtx 1080 amd 32gb of fast ddr4 ram do you think the game would be the same as it is now? No. They would have to have made choices to help the game run on weaker systems.

The speculation ive seen of the scorpio and its cpu is that it will be an iterative version of the 8 core jaguar cpu currently in all the consoles. It will be faster but im guess it wont be enough to make a 30fps game a 60fps game. Just like the up clocked cpu in the pro

FAILSAFE 00 · 22-02-2017 7:22pm

EoinHef wrote: »

But they are crippling them,again,of the target minimum for BF1 was a 7700K,a gtx 1080 amd 32gb of fast ddr4 ram do you think the game would be the same as it is now? No. They would have to have made choices to help the game run on weaker systems.

You need to come back to the way game development exists currently. Games are developed to work across a wide variety of PC builds from entry level to enthusiast level. Fact. You have yet to answer why this will be different on Xbox Scorpio and Xbox One?

EoinHef wrote: »

The speculation ive seen of the scorpio and its cpu is that it will be an iterative version of the 8 core jaguar cpu currently in all the consoles. It will be faster but im guess it wont be enough to make a 30fps game a 60fps game. Just like the up clocked cpu in the pro

The Scorpio is confirmed for VR which most likely means the Oculus Rift since they are partnered with Microsoft, although no specific headset has been announced. Bethesda announced back at E3 that Fallout 4 will be a VR title for the Scorpio. Whatever CPU is used in the Scorpio will have to be beefy. Look at the required CPU power for the Rift and the Vive.

We will know soon enough.

EoinHef · 22-02-2017 7:58pm

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

You need to come back to the way game development exists currently. Games are developed to work across a wide variety of PC builds from entry level to enthusiast level. Fact. You have yet to answer why this will be different on Xbox Scorpio and Xbox One?

You dont seem to understand,if a dev picks a low end system as a minimum requirement then the game has to be able to run on that system meanimg that more capable systems may leave resources untapped. Meaning that if the game targeted a high end system as the minimum then they could do more with the game ie world size,objects on screen,better physics,better AI. You see these types of improvements in games after each new console gens drop.

This also answers the question about Xbone/scorpio. The xbone is the low end sytem that is the entry point. Meaning if the cpu in the scorpio can not be leveraged to anything other than graphics its has unused potential that is wasted.

I cant be any clearer than that.

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

The Scorpio is confirmed for VR which most likely means the Oculus Rift since they are partnered with Microsoft, although no specific headset has been announced. Bethesda announced back at E3 that Fallout 4 will be a VR title for the Scorpio. Whatever CPU is used in the Scorpio will have to be beefy. Look at the required CPU power for the Rift and the Vive.

We will know soon enough.

We will know this year alright,my money is on a big gpu boost but marginal improvements for the rest.

FAILSAFE 00 · 22-02-2017 8:31pm

EoinHef wrote: »

You dont seem to understand,if a dev picks a low end system as a minimum requirement then the game has to be able to run on that system meanimg that more capable systems may leave resources untapped. Meaning that if the game targeted a high end system as the minimum then they could do more with the game ie world size,objects on screen,better physics,better AI. You see these types of improvements in games after each new console gens drop.

This also answers the question about Xbone/scorpio. The xbone is the low end sytem that is the entry point. Meaning if the cpu in the scorpio can not be leveraged to anything other than graphics its has unused potential that is wasted.

I cant be any clearer than that.

What magic games are you expecting to come out in the next 5 years that will be so amazing that an Xbox One cannot run them so by default the Scorpio wont

EoinHef · 22-02-2017 8:50pm

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

What magic games are you expecting to come out in the next 5 years that will be so amazing that an Xbox One cannot run them so by default the Scorpio wont

Thats not the point either,its weather games having to run on the OG consoles handicap developers in the sense they cant offer anything that wont work on the older tech. These consoles will offer nothing over the original game other than graphics and framerate. There wont be bigger worlds,better physics,better AI etc,just shinier.

FAILSAFE 00 · 22-02-2017 9:28pm

EoinHef wrote: »

Thats not the point either,its weather games having to run on the OG consoles handicap developers in the sense they cant offer anything that wont work on the older tech. These consoles will offer nothing over the original game other than graphics and framerate. There wont be bigger worlds,better physics,better AI etc,just shinier.

On the PC gaming side of things I haven't seen any major jump forward in the last few years in regular games and I am not predicting there will be one anytime soon. So I am not expecting developers to be gimped by having to run games on both the XB1 & XBS. Not for a long time.

Just look at the gaming market right now. Its incredibly expensive to develop games that the market thirsts for. Huge investment of time and money is needed to get new IP off the ground and even the established games cost a fortune. Endless amounts of remastered game titles are being re-released every few months because these mean less risk and good rewards.

Also another thing to consider is that the Xbox One could be revised again. Once its deemed to be at the end of its life cycle. Xbox have already spoken about ending console generations in favour of upgrades.

ShadowHearth · 25-02-2017 2:17am

I am a bit late to this debate, but I agree with lads. Ps4 pro and xbox scorpio will never shine, because they are tied down to original consoles.
In a way, as Jim Jeffries said in one on his stand ups: we as sociaty forced to move as fast our slowest member does.
Same now with all these new pimped consoles.
Yes we get significantly upgraded performance with pro, but its only in single player games. All multiplayer games have to match old ps4. So if even if pro could make some call of duty look and be more complex online, it cant do it, because they still need to make it work on old ps4 too.
Pc does not have this issue. On pc dev makes new game and says: "you want to play this son of the bitch with biggest eye candy?! Well, then you need this size ePinis graphic card. You dont have it as you use older tech? Well, feck off so, go buy better gpu if you want that eye candy.
On the other hand Pc does give a very high range on settings so lower spec systems can run those games too, but devs were never forced to make sure it works on that lowest spec hardware, where's sony does not just give new extra headroom and says: go wild, make something cool. Sony says instead: here is new hardware, make something cool, but dont go to crazy as its still has to be playable on old ps4, oh, and dont forget, online ps4 and ps4 pro has to be same, we cant give people advantage, just because they hava a bit more money.

kunst nugget · 01-03-2017 11:12am

Is it worth me getting the Pro?

I've been holding off on getting the PS4 until there was a decent library that could be picked up cheaply and I think the time has come. My dilemma is now whether to go for the Pro or not. I have a 55 inch 4k but it doesn't have HDR and I'm wondering if I'm going to get the full effect of the Pro or am I just better off going with the normal PS4. I could pick up the normal PS4 next week but I'd probably have to wait a month or so if I was to pick up the Pro.

heebusjeebus · 01-03-2017 11:23am

kunst nugget wrote: »

Is it worth me getting the Pro?

I've been holding off on getting the PS4 until there was a decent library that could be picked up cheaply and I think the time has come. My dilemma is now whether to go for the Pro or not. I have a 55 inch 4k but it doesn't have HDR and I'm wondering if I'm going to get the full effect of the Pro or am I just better off going with the normal PS4. I could pick up the normal PS4 next week but I'd probably have to wait a month or so if I was to pick up the Pro.

It's only €50 more than the 1TB slim model so go for it. The next update to the OS will have a boost mode that should mean smoother framerates for most games.

Riesen_Meal · 01-03-2017 11:26am

kunst nugget wrote: »

Is it worth me getting the Pro?

I've been holding off on getting the PS4 until there was a decent library that could be picked up cheaply and I think the time has come. My dilemma is now whether to go for the Pro or not. I have a 55 inch 4k but it doesn't have HDR and I'm wondering if I'm going to get the full effect of the Pro or am I just better off going with the normal PS4. I could pick up the normal PS4 next week but I'd probably have to wait a month or so if I was to pick up the Pro.

If you already have a 4K TV you would be mental getting a "standard" PS4...

Fair enough your TV doesn't have HDR but for the resolution jump I would think it is worthwhile....

kunst nugget · 01-03-2017 1:39pm

Ah, I'll probably wait and get the pro. Just looking at the offer with Argos at the moment for Horizon: Zero Dawn and an extra controller bundle with the 500GB Console for €249 is very tempting. The External HD support coming in the next update means the 500GB hard drive wouldn't bother me that much.

MilesMorales1 · 01-03-2017 7:09pm

Can't wait to see how Horizon looks on a nice 4K tv.

Grahamer666 · 02-03-2017 9:39am

It looks amazing with HDR too.

Penn · 02-03-2017 12:49pm

Started Horizon last night on a Samsung KS7000 4K with HDR on PS4 Pro. Have to say, the most visually stunning game I've ever played. The colours are incredible and striking. The landscape is incredible. Everything is incredibly fluid and detailed.

I rarely use Photo Modes in games, but even last night when I noticed it in the menu, I tinkered around with it a bit, and feel I'll likely continue doing so. It's just stunningly beautiful.

bigphil2 · 02-03-2017 4:32pm

Penn wrote: »

Started Horizon last night on a Samsung KS7000 4K with HDR on PS4 Pro. Have to say, the most visually stunning game I've ever played. The colours are incredible and striking. The landscape is incredible. Everything is incredibly fluid and detailed.

I rarely use Photo Modes in games, but even last night when I noticed it in the menu, I tinkered around with it a bit, and feel I'll likely continue doing so. It's just stunningly beautiful.

Its in the post at the moment,cant wait to see how it looks on the pro..

MilesMorales1 · 06-03-2017 7:46pm

Neogaf is reporting Firmware 4.50 including boost mode for pro is out tomorrow.

marcbrophy · 07-03-2017 12:31pm

Finally, I cleared a 2TB drive in anticipation for this a month ago

heebusjeebus · 07-03-2017 12:32pm

Do we need to format the HDD before we connect it to the PS4?

jonerkinsella · 07-03-2017 12:49pm

heebusjeebus wrote: »

Do we need to format the HDD before we connect it to the PS4?

Yes. Format to fat32 for the PS4 to see it.

The Sparrow · 08-03-2017 8:05pm

Anyone got the update to 4.50 yet?

MilesMorales1 · 08-03-2017 8:13pm

The Sparrow wrote: »

Anyone got the update to 4.50 yet?

Tomorrow now.

heebusjeebus · 09-03-2017 7:08pm

Got 4.5 installed. Once i've finished copying over a few gigs to my external drive I'm going to give Bloodborne a shot in Beast mode :cool:

SeantheMan · 10-03-2017 1:36am

heebusjeebus wrote: »

Got 4.5 installed. Once i've finished copying over a few gigs to my external drive I'm going to give Bloodborne a shot in Beast mode :cool:

Sorry to burst your bubble pal, but Digital Foundry ran tests and found little to no difference for Bloodborne with Boost Mode. Before you start convincing yourself it's better or worse.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLFatxFg0nM

heebusjeebus · 10-03-2017 7:58am

SeantheMan wrote: »

Sorry to burst your bubble pal, but Digital Foundry ran tests and found little to no difference for Bloodborne with Boost Mode. Before you start convincing yourself it's better or worse.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLFatxFg0nM

Ya, disappointing. I'm still playing Nioh so the drop back to the 30fps in bloodborne was immediately jarring.
Ah well. Just gotta keep hoping for a bloodborne sequel.

PS4 Pro general stuff.

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