PS4 Pro general stuff.

Captain Chaos · 12-09-2016 12:53pm

weiland79 wrote: »

Just a heads up. I was in Gamestop this morning and the girl said that they won't accept any PS4's as trade in's if you have changed the hard drive out. So stick the old one back in and say nothing.

That's a joke when Sony will still stand over the warranty if you do change the HDD out as it's designed with that feature.

My old HDD is long gone as it's a slow ass 5400rpm drive, not keeping that for anything.

MilesMorales1 · 12-09-2016 1:57pm

Gamestop *insert me rolling my eyes*

Varik · 12-09-2016 2:05pm

Captain Chaos wrote: »

That's a joke when Sony will still stand over the warranty if you do change the HDD out as it's designed with that feature.

My old HDD is long gone as it's a slow ass 5400rpm drive, not keeping that for anything.

Warranty would be on the PS4 not your new HDD, Sony don't stand over that as it's not theirs nor could Gamestop be expected to take it.

EoinHef · 12-09-2016 5:33pm

Sell it on adverts,more likely to get a better price there anyway,especially with an upgraded drive.

FAILSAFE 00 · 12-09-2016 6:52pm

As people were mentioning the PS4 Pro is twice as powerful as the orgingal PS4 it's important to point out that Digital Foundry concluded that this does not mean the frame rate is doubled.

So 30 FPS titles will most likely remain 30fps titles with only better graphics.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUb63Dc7-Bw

EoinHef · 12-09-2016 7:40pm

Its gpu is twice as powerful,the cpu is the same but with higher clock speeds. Thats going to be the bottleneck in reasonably cpu intensive games eg GTA

Penn · 12-09-2016 7:40pm

Already been confirmed that most 4k games will likely be locked to 30fps, but developers will have the option to instead use the extra power to go for 1080p 60fps. Like Rise of the Tomb Raider having a 4k/30fps mode, 1080p/60fps mode and 1080p/30fps mode.

The extra power can be used to double the framerate, just unlikely in 4k resolution.

FAILSAFE 00 · 12-09-2016 11:10pm

Penn wrote: »

Already been confirmed that most 4k games will likely be locked to 30fps, but developers will have the option to instead use the extra power to go for 1080p 60fps. Like Rise of the Tomb Raider having a 4k/30fps mode, 1080p/60fps mode and 1080p/30fps mode.

The extra power can be used to double the framerate, just unlikely in 4k resolution.

Sounds good but quite a gamble to be hoping developers will deliver a 1080p 60 fps mode.

Penn · 13-09-2016 6:06am

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

Sounds good but quite a gamble to be hoping developers will deliver a 1080p 60 fps mode.

Not really. Plenty of games have already been 1080p 60fps. Most developers lock it at 30fps because it's not stable enough to maintain a solid 60, but with the extra power of the Pro it's more likely to be achieved. Can't see why they wouldn't aim for that.

jonerkinsella · 13-09-2016 7:30am

Lads. Look through the marketing hype . The Neo is not really a 4k machine . The real purpose of the Neo is to power the VR headset . The standard PS4 is not powerful enough to do this at a satisfactory frame rate to make the experience smooth . Sony had to develop the Neo to power VR .

By marketing the way Sony have done for the Neo , they will sucker in ppl with 4k tv's , thinking that this is the one that they need ... but , the ppl who buy the VR hs with the standard PS4 will soon realize that they will Have to have a Neo to use the VR hs on as the experience will be quite awful with the standard PS4 .

The Neo only exists because of VR , Not because of 4k ( wich has a very small uptake in the scheme of things )

Penn · 13-09-2016 7:42am

jonerkinsella wrote: »

Lads. Look through the marketing hype . The Neo is not really a 4k machine . The real purpose of the Neo is to power the VR headset . The standard PS4 is not powerful enough to do this at a satisfactory frame rate to make the experience smooth . Sony had to develop the Neo to power VR .

By marketing the way Sony have done for the Neo , they will sucker in ppl with 4k tv's , thinking that this is the one that they need ... but , the ppl who buy the VR hs with the standard PS4 will soon realize that they will Have to have a Neo to use the VR hs on as the experience will be quite awful with the standard PS4 .

The Neo only exists because of VR , Not because of 4k ( wich has a very small uptake in the scheme of things )

Agree with most of that, however the Pro will still upscale to 4k for those who have 4k tvs, has a larger hdd, and in many ways is futureproofing for when those who don't have 4k tvs do get one.

The primary purpose of the Pro may be to make PSVR a better experience, but that doesn't mean there aren't benefits outside of that.

FAILSAFE 00 · 13-09-2016 9:42am

Penn wrote: »

Agree with most of that, however the Pro will still upscale to 4k for those who have 4k tvs, has a larger hdd, and in many ways is futureproofing for when those who don't have 4k tvs do get one.

The primary purpose of the Pro may be to make PSVR a better experience, but that doesn't mean there aren't benefits outside of that.

Really good 4K TV sets from Samsung and other brands already have really good upscalers. I have seen the orginal Xbox One looking fantastic at 4k and I can only assume the original PS4 will be the same.

Captain Chaos · 13-09-2016 9:46am

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

Really good 4K TV sets from Samsung and other brands already have really good upscalers. I have seen the orgingal Xbox One looking fantastic at 4k and I can only assume the orgingal PS4 will be the same.

The PS4Pro uses a more advanced 4K upscaling process than any TV or the OneS.

The current problem with many 4K TVs gaming is in the input lag in gaming mode. It's massive on most 4K TVs out there now. Untill that comes down I won't be going near one, you need to spend aruund 2 grand now to get a good 4K HDR TV with low input lag.

Penn · 13-09-2016 9:54am

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

Really good 4K TV sets from Samsung and other brands already have really good upscalers. I have seen the orginal Xbox One looking fantastic at 4k and I can only assume the original PS4 will be the same.

http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/by-resolution/4k-ultra-hd-uhd-vs-1080p-full-hd-tvs-and-upscaling-compared

The benefit of 4k over 1080p seems obvious on paper – 4k has four times as many pixels as 1080p, which means it should have a clearer picture – but a 4k TV only improves the picture quality if:
You are watching native 4k content
You sit close enough to notice the difference
A 4k TV doesn't improve the picture quality of lower quality content like 1080p Blu-rays.

FAILSAFE 00 · 13-09-2016 10:11am

Captain Chaos wrote: »

The PS4Pro uses a more advanced 4K upscaling process than any TV or the OneS.

The current problem with many 4K TVs gaming is in the input lag in gaming mode. It's massive on most 4K TVs out there now. Untill that comes down I won't be going near one, you need to spend aruund 2 grand now to get a good 4K HDR TV with low input lag.

Actually have 2 lads on my Rainbow 6 team using a Samsung 4K with no lag and very impressive visuals. Both purchased for under €900. Non HDR, but still very impressive at 4k.

FAILSAFE 00 · 13-09-2016 10:16am

Penn wrote: »

http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/by-resolution/4k-ultra-hd-uhd-vs-1080p-full-hd-tvs-and-upscaling-compared

To give you a real gamer perspective on it in certain games details can be seen in amazing clarity that I couldn't see at all on my top of the range Samsung 1080p TV.

It's something an article can never demonstrate.

Penn · 13-09-2016 10:52am

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

To give you a real gamer perspective on it in certain games details can be seen in amazing clarity that I couldn't see at all on my top of the range Samsung 1080p TV.

It's something an article can never demonstrate.

Unless your "real gamer perspective" is "face two inches from the screen", I'd be inclined to go with what the article from people who review TVs says.

4k upscaling from a tv will never match 4k upscaling from the source (console) through a 4k tv.

FAILSAFE 00 · 13-09-2016 11:15am

Penn wrote: »

Unless your "real gamer perspective" is "face two inches from the screen", I'd be inclined to go with what the article from people who review TVs says.

4k upscaling from a tv will never match 4k upscaling from the source (console) through a 4k tv.

No one is saying it is as good however it is really impressive.

Sitting back a good few feet from the 55 inch 4K TV and the results are there to be seen. Try not buy into all the hype from Sony. I recommend people use their own eyes rather than posting articles to sell their point of view.

We play competitive Rainbow 6 Siege at the highest ranks so we are very alert to input lag of any kind.

Penn · 13-09-2016 11:28am

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

No one is saying it is as good however it is really impressive.

Sitting back a good few feet from the 55 inch 4K TV and the results are there to be seen. Try not buy into all the hype from Sony. I recommend people use their own eyes rather than posting articles to sell their point of view.

We play competitive Rainbow 6 Siege at the highest ranks so we are very alert to input lag of any kind.

I wasn't buying into any hype from Sony. Merely responding to your comment regarding the upscalers on 4k TVs to point out that it won't match the 4k upscaling from the console.

jcd5971 · 13-09-2016 4:31pm

FAILSAFE 00 wrote:

We play competitive Rainbow 6 Siege at the highest ranks so we are very alert to input lag of any kind.

I have a Samsung 4k TV in game node it's fine but there is a bit of input lag if I leave it in regular modes like movie or sport,

Really if you think about it there has to be a delay with the amount of processing going on.

I'd bet your friends on game mode, might be worth asking to confirm.

Then again maybe he just has a better/more efficient model than I do.

Captain Chaos · 13-09-2016 4:43pm

On some 4K TVs gaming mode actually makes the input lag much,much worse, you should read some reviews.

EoinHef · 13-09-2016 5:38pm

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

No one is saying it is as good however it is really impressive.

Sitting back a good few feet from the 55 inch 4K TV and the results are there to be seen. Try not buy into all the hype from Sony. I recommend people use their own eyes rather than posting articles to sell their point of view.

We play competitive Rainbow 6 Siege at the highest ranks so we are very alert to input lag of any kind.

Your that MLG that you can detect milliseconds of difference??

Playing rainbow 6 at the "highest ranks" does not make anyone expert on input lag

johnny_ultimate · 13-09-2016 5:59pm

EoinHef wrote: »

l
Playing rainbow 6 at the "highest ranks" does not make anyone expert on input lag

I don't know man, I play Everybody's Gone to The Rapture at the highes ranks and could absolutely tell if there was a millisecond delay between me pushing the button and the character breaking into a very light jog.

FAILSAFE 00 · 13-09-2016 6:38pm

EoinHef wrote: »

Your that MLG that you can detect milliseconds of difference??

Playing rainbow 6 at the "highest ranks" does not make anyone expert on input lag

LOL, Did I say I was an expert in input lag?

I pointed out that if there if there was significant input lag at 4K we'd be easily able to tell. Putting to bed the argument that without Sony's magic upscaler gamers will get horrible input lag.

EoinHef · 13-09-2016 6:44pm

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

LOL, Did I say I was an expert in input lag?

I pointed out that if there if there was significant input lag at 4K we'd be easily able to tell. Putting to bed the argument that without Sony's magic upscaler gamers will get horrible input lag.

You implied your expert level in rainbow 6 made you better placed to judge input lag,i say thats rubbish.....

FAILSAFE 00 · 13-09-2016 6:57pm

EoinHef wrote: »

You implied your expert level in rainbow 6 made you better placed to judge input lag,i say thats rubbish.....

Did you not make the team bro?

Failsafe wrote:

We play competitive Rainbow 6 Siege at the highest ranks so we are very alert to input lag of any kind.

I am simply sharing my 4K experience. If there was an issue I'd notice instanstly.
I'd expect any decent FPS player to tell if there is an issue with input lag by even a tiny amount.

Anyway, my point is do not buy into the hype that you need Sony's magic upscaler or you'll be crippled with input lag. Gamers are already using 4k displays with Xbox One and PS4.

EoinHef · 13-09-2016 7:10pm

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

Did you not make the team bro?

I am simply sharing my 4K experience. If there was an issue I'd notice instanstly.
I'd expect any decent FPS player to tell if there is an issue with input lag by even a tiny amount.

Anyway, my point is do not buy into the hype that you need Sony's magic upscaler or you'll be crippled with input lag. Gamers are already using 4k displays with Xbox One and PS4.

Id just expect most "pro gamers" to use it as an excuse for being crap....your not going to notice a few milliseconds in the difference.

Penn · 13-09-2016 7:38pm

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

Sitting back a good few feet from the 55 inch 4K TV and the results are there to be seen. Try not buy into all the hype from Sony. I recommend people use their own eyes rather than posting articles to sell their point of view.

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

I am simply sharing my 4K experience. If there was an issue I'd notice instanstly.
I'd expect any decent FPS player to tell if there is an issue with input lag by even a tiny amount.

Anyway, my point is do not buy into the hype that you need Sony's magic upscaler or you'll be crippled with input lag. Gamers are already using 4k displays with Xbox One and PS4.

You say we shouldn't buy into Sony's "hype" yet you're attributing things they haven't said to them and saying we shouldn't believe it. Nobody said Sony's 4k upscaling will reduce lag. A previous poster merely said that good 4k hdr tvs with low input lag are still mostly pretty expensive.

jcd5971 · 13-09-2016 8:34pm

FAILSAFE 00 wrote:

I am simply sharing my 4K experience. If there was an issue I'd notice instanstly. I'd expect any decent FPS player to tell if there is an issue with input lag by even a tiny amount.

In general I don't agree with anything you say, but in this case your 100% correct. Input lag is very obvious, for example I can tell the difference clearly between my benq 1ms refresh rate monitor and my 26ms Sony TV.

Now most tvs average around 50-60 ms and about mid 20s in game mode.

It is honestly quite obvious, so I'd well believe that if he is a top lvl rainbow six player he'd spot the lag in a FPS.

jcd5971 · 13-09-2016 8:35pm

EoinHef wrote:

Id just expect most "pro gamers" to use it as an excuse for being crap....your not going to notice a few milliseconds in the difference.

I'm an average player and it's obvious even to me.

Try to play any ps4 shooter hef and record your footage, then watch it back and you can usually see where you were the fraction of a second of everytime.

moc moc a moc · 13-09-2016 8:37pm

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

We play competitive Rainbow 6 Siege at the highest ranks so we are very alert to input lag of any kind.

Not that I'm disagreeing with the input lag issue, but if you're playing games on a television instead of a gaming monitor, you're clearly not playing at the "highest ranks".

EoinHef · 13-09-2016 8:49pm

jcd5971 wrote: »

I'm an average player and it's obvious even to me.

Try to play any ps4 shooter hef and record your footage, then watch it back and you can usually see where you were the fraction of a second of everytime.

If your getting the advertised gtg rates,your saying your noticing 25/1000 of 1 second difference....im not buying it.

Now im sure there is a point where it becomes noticable but at that level i dont believe its noticable.

McDermotX · 13-09-2016 9:02pm

Re: 4K

What'd you'd really want to consider is the fact that game modes are disabled once HDR signals are detected (haven't heard of one model that functions otherwise), so you're going to have to live with added input lag using the HDR mode of your TV if you want to play Pro games featuring HDR.
That could be an issue going forward with the current implementation of 4K HDR on TVs. This is assuming that HDR gaming is going to operate in a similar manner to other UHD sources.

Of course, until games land we can't know for certain (unfortunately Forza's demo doesn't have the feature).

jcd5971 · 13-09-2016 9:07pm

EoinHef wrote:

If your getting the advertised gtg rates,your saying your noticing 25/1000 of 1 second difference....im not buying it.

As I said my TV panel in gaming mode is supposedly 28ms which I'm assuming it is.

My benq gaming monitor is supposedly 1ms I'm assuming it is.

I have no way to test either.

Now there is a massively noticeable difference for me between the 2 displays.
This isn't just bias either I mainly play destiny ps4 and when I'm using the monitor my kd is always better.

I just seem to better in every engagement. It's a combination action of input lag and display lag.

If you doubt it that's fine. I can't convince you tbf

EoinHef · 13-09-2016 9:45pm

jcd5971 wrote: »

As I said my TV panel in gaming mode is supposedly 28ms which I'm assuming it is.

My benq gaming monitor is supposedly 1ms I'm assuming it is.

I have no way to test either.

Now there is a massively noticeable difference for me between the 2 displays.
This isn't just bias either I mainly play destiny ps4 and when I'm using the monitor my kd is always better.

I just seem to better in every engagement. It's a combination action of input lag and display lag.

If you doubt it that's fine. I can't convince you tbf

If you feel you notice a difference then fair enough,i cant convince you that the difference is so small you cant notice it either.

Ive used a 5ms 23" monitor and a 40" samsung for the PS4,cant say ive noticed a difference playing on either. And i play plenty of shooters too ie CoD,Destiny,BF etc

EoinHef · 13-09-2016 10:09pm

Ive said it a few times now but the fact Sony went with the same CPU for the pro is majorly disappointing. Its the piece of hardware thats going to have trouble running games at 60fps.

Eurogamer allude to it in one of their articles today,200% GPU power boost but a 30% boost to CPU clocks. Its even the same architecture so cant expect it to have any benefits from a new architecture. Its really just things will look a bit prettier but still have the same s**t framerates as standard PS4.

They say they built it to stop people going to PC,if thats the case they havent achieved what they set out to do. Its a low end PC with none of the benefits!! People say PC's are expensive but a proper HDR 4K TV and a PS4 Pro will cost a hell of a lot more than a good PC and a nice monitor.

The article for anyone interested:

www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2016-what-if-ps4-pro-uncharted-4-ran-at-60fps

FAILSAFE 00 · 14-09-2016 1:20am

They should have stuck to 1080p rather than 4K.

Build a console that could constantly do 60fps across a wide variety of titles.

Captain Chaos · 14-09-2016 7:34am

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

They should have stuck to 1080p rather than 4K.

Build a console that could constantly do 60fps across a wide variety of titles.

It's the same thing really, they are aiming for 4K at 30fps which should equal 1080p at 60 fps performance across all games finally as that is what was promised since the PS3 days. All games from October will have graphic options for HDR and 4K scaling if your TV allows for it and if you are playing on a Pro or not.

The problem will be cross gen games being locked to 30fps for online.

You will be lucky to see 1080p VR games with the Neo as FPS is king.

heebusjeebus · 14-09-2016 8:24am

Interesting OP on this NeoGaf thread around the omission of the Ultra BluRay drive.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1278279

...our industry sources tell us that Sony Consumer Electronics doesn’t want a UHD-capable PlayStation 4 Pro to undercut sales of its forthcoming set-top 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray player, which is expected in early 2017...

And....

you could see Sony Interactive Entertainment surprise people with a firmware update that adds full 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray Disc compatibility to the PlayStation 4 Pro.

Personally, I've no interest in Ultra blu ray discs as I've not bought or rented a single blu ray since I got my PS4 a few years ago. The days of optical media for movies is at an end (for me at least). It's all Plex or Netflix from now on.

Otacon · 14-09-2016 8:30am

heebusjeebus wrote: »

Interesting OP on this NeoGaf thread around the omission of the Ultra BluRay drive.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1278279
...

From the same thread though... (link)

Speaking to the Guardian after the company’s PlayStation Meeting event in New York, House said it would not be possible to add support for UHD discs in a later firmware update, but argued that such support was unnecessary.

Not sure Andrew House would be unaware of this possibility, if it were true.

Penn · 14-09-2016 9:23am

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

They should have stuck to 1080p rather than 4K.

Build a console that could constantly do 60fps across a wide variety of titles.

Disagree. With a sizable number of games having online elements, having the Pro at 1080p/60fps and normal PS4 at 1080p/30fps is an unlevel playing field.

I think they're making the right call and as has been announced for some games already, having different graphical modes (4k/30fps, 1080p/60fps, 1080p/30fps) gives the player an option for which they would prefer. The added power of the Pro enables 1080p/60fps as well as 4k/30fps. The onus is on the developers to make it happen, not Sony.

FAILSAFE 00 · 14-09-2016 10:06am

Penn wrote: »

Disagree. With a sizable number of games having online elements, having the Pro at 1080p/60fps and normal PS4 at 1080p/30fps is an unlevel playing field.

I think they're making the right call and as has been announced for some games already, having different graphical modes (4k/30fps, 1080p/60fps, 1080p/30fps) gives the player an option for which they would prefer. The added power of the Pro enables 1080p/60fps as well as 4k/30fps. The onus is on the developers to make it happen, not Sony.

I didn't mention multiplayer. From the looks of things the vast majority of 30fps titles on PS4 will stay locked to 30fps on the PS4 Pro due to using the same 3 year old CPU that is in the PS4.

That's a shame. They had a great opportunity but sadly they didn't grasp it.

Captain Chaos · 14-09-2016 10:26am

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

I didn't mention multiplayer. From the looks of things the vast majority of 30fps titles on PS4 will stay locked to 30fps on the PS4 Pro due to using the same 3 year old CPU that is in the PS4.

That's a shame. They had a great opportunity but sadly they didn't grasp it.

It's because they don't want to case a sh1t storm by giving Pro players a massive advantage in multiplayer games. Single player games will have a performance advantage, all this has been covered. COD will be running a 4K upscaled at 60fps on the Pro not 30fps.

Sony don't want to segregrate the market. Nothing to do with a 3 year old CPU.

The Scorpio will be the same if MS want to keep paririty with the One S even though the Scorpio GPU with 300% more powerful than the One S.

Penn · 14-09-2016 10:49am

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

I didn't mention multiplayer. From the looks of things the vast majority of 30fps titles on PS4 will stay locked to 30fps on the PS4 Pro due to using the same 3 year old CPU that is in the PS4.

That's a shame. They had a great opportunity but sadly they didn't grasp it.

Well obviously games currently at 30fps will stay at 30fps unless the developer patches the game to enable 60fps, which they may or may not do. And games won't stay locked to 30fps because of the CPU, as evident by the games they've already announced which will get a bump in framerates. The overclocking of the CPU and the 4.2teraflops of the GPU will help enable a greater framerate, again, if the developers choose to make use of it and patch it in.

Will it work with every game? Probably not. Will every developer do it? Probably not. But it's up to the developers to work it in and match other games which have been able to achieve it. They've been given the architecture to do it, and obviously it's achievable given games like Uncharted 4, The Last of Us Remastered and Rise of the Tomb Raider being able to do it.

Captain Chaos · 14-09-2016 10:54am

True also you have some games with unlocked framerates like on the Xbox One S with only a small spec bump, these games are seeing frame rate improvements with no patches required.

Penn · 14-09-2016 10:58am

Captain Chaos wrote: »

True also you have some games with unlocked framerates like on the Xbox One S with only a small spec bump, these games are seeing frame rate improvements with no patches required.

Sorry yes, if the framerate isn't locked then the game will see a better, more stable framerate without the need for a patch.

MilesMorales1 · 17-09-2016 4:58pm

I was talking to the sales bloke in Gamestop today, and he said a PS4 500gb would be worth either 185 or 195 when traded in towards a PS4 pro. Doesn't sound too bad considering the slim is out now and all.

Varik · 17-09-2016 5:31pm

What brand was the original 500GB HDD, got 2 here and I'm not sure which it is.

R.F. · 19-09-2016 1:01pm

Varik wrote: »

What brand was the original 500GB HDD, got 2 here and I'm not sure which it is.

Mine was a Hitachi

Varik · 19-09-2016 1:10pm

neither of the ones I found are it then (samsung & hgst), just going to put the the hgst as it's less branded (maybe they won't check if it's coming up as 500GB).

PS4 Pro general stuff.

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