2016 U.S. Presidential Race Megathread Mark 2.

alastair

RobertKK wrote: »

The FBI say they found new emails, but the FBI themselves were having a bit of a credibility problem with their initial ruling to not seek prosecution.
I had asked during the past 48, who holds the FBI to account if they fail to do their job properly, but at least they see to be redeeming themselves.
For the record, I have a couple of cousins who work in the FBI.
I was disappointed with their initial ruling, but it is good that maybe justice will be served this time.
Hillary may be going to prison where she can share details with Chelsea Manning on how not to use classified information.

They're not changing anything with regard to their investigation determinations. They're simply saying that some more emails have come to light, and they're reviewing if there's anything classified in them.

A Little Pony

alastair wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

They tried to cover it up but once Trump said he will clean out the swamp as he put it, they can't take the risk. Otherwise they would be fked.

I think the FBI are as aware as everyone else that Trump will be clearing out the swamp of his failed campaign while Hillary gets on with the job of running the country. They're just doing the job they were tasked with - the one where they made very clear that there was no criminality involved.

And Gerry Adams was never in the IRA. Everyone knows she is a crook.

B0jangles

RobertKK wrote: »

The FBI say they found new emails, but the FBI themselves were having a bit of a credibility problem with their initial ruling to not seek prosecution.
I had asked during the past 48, who holds the FBI to account if they fail to do their job properly, but at least they see to be redeeming themselves.
For the record, I have a couple of cousins who work in the FBI.
I was disappointed with their initial ruling, but it is good that maybe justice will be served this time.
Hillary may be going to prison where she can share details with Chelsea Manning on how not to use classified information.

Ahahaha, I was just saying this would happen!

FBI exonerates Clinton = BAD CORRUPT FBI :mad::mad::mad:
FBI reopens investigation = GOOD INCORRUPTIBLE FBI :cool::cool::cool:

You couldn't make this up, I swear.

alastair

A Little Pony wrote: »

And Gerry Adams was never in the IRA. Everyone knows she is a crook.

There's ample evidence Gerry was in the IRA. There's nothing to suggest Hillary is a crook.

cnocbui

Billy86 wrote: »

I doubt that's the case to be honest, though it is interesting as I was expecting one side or the other to drop something big this weekend or Monday at the latest - probably the last window for any news to have a real chance at influencing voters.

Well I think this is a blatant move on the part of Comey to try and save his ass, not to mention that all US gun agencies tend to be rather right wing in culture.

I predict nothing illegal or materially different from the previous leaks will come of this. The timing is beyond extraordinary. the only valid excuse the FBI could have for this 11 days out from an election is if they possess strong evidence of a serious nature that they think will lead to a prosecution. The wording of the announcement is extremely tentative and suggests they actually haven't done any follow through or assessment.

This smacks of Hoover's era, a scurrilous and disgraceful period that should never be revisited.

B0jangles

https://twitter.com/samsteinhp/status/792067119286542337?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

https://twitter.com/samsteinhp/status/792067119286542337?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

Hmmmm, what the heck is Comey up to?

RobertKK

B0jangles wrote: »

Ahahaha, I was just saying this would happen!

FBI exonerates Clinton = BAD CORRUPT FBI :mad::mad::mad:
FBI reopens investigation = GOOD INCORRUPTIBLE FBI :cool::cool::cool:

You couldn't make this up, I swear.

They said she was extremely reckless, and I don't think if it was you or me working for the US state department and lets say we are US citizens and we did what Hillary did, we would have avoided prosecution.

I think it is good the case has been reopened. Who knows what the result will be, maybe she gets off again, maybe she is prosecuted and is heading towards prison rather than the White House.

alastair

cnocbui wrote: »

Well I think this is a blatant move on the part of Comey to try and save his ass, not to mention that all US gun agencies tend to be rather right wing in culture.

Comey is a Republican for sure, but he's not trying to save his ass. He made very clear the process of determining that no case of criminality existed in the email investigation. He's simply being methodical and above board. If he kept schtum about any new info that came to light, he'd have the wingnuts on his case about cover-ups, so he's just crossing the t's and dotting the i's. Nothing is going to change the investigation's determination at this point though.

cnocbui

B0jangles wrote: »

https://twitter.com/samsteinhp/status/792067119286542337?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

https://twitter.com/samsteinhp/status/792067119286542337?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

Hmmmm, what the heck is Comey up to?

Comey engaged in blatant politicking previously, regarding getting into that iPhone and used it try and lever political opinion in favour of his wanting mandated backdoors into everything, particularly iPhones.

He's at it again, but this time it's far more serious.

B0jangles

RobertKK wrote: »

They said she was extremely reckless, and I don't think if it was you or me working for the US state department and lets say we are US citizens and we did what Hillary did, we would have avoided prosecution.

I think it is good the case has been reopened. Who knows what the result will be, maybe she gets off again, maybe she is prosecuted and is heading towards prison rather than the White House.

It hasn't been reopened:

https://twitter.com/joshtpm/status/792066902336106496?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

also I was talking (online) recently to somone who's spent a long time dealing with US military intelligence/classified materials and he says in his experience what Clinton was shown to have done would merit a stern talking to at most, so take from that what you will.

alastair

RobertKK wrote: »

They said she was extremely reckless, and I don't think if it was you or me working for the US state department and lets say we are US citizens and we did what Hillary did, we would have avoided prosecution.

Or you could just take the FBI at their word, when they said very clearly that there wasn't a case for prosecution, and that no-one had interfered politically in their investigation or determination? Just a thought.

I don't see anyone chasing Colin Powell for using a private email account when he was in the job. Hillary's influence must be wider than I imagined.

B0jangles

As a change of pace, anyone want a video of Donald Trump being really nasty to another former Miss Universe, this time on a big ol' stage?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-jennifer-hawkins-video_us_58137b85e4b0390e69cfbbba?

cnocbui

alastair wrote: »

Full marks for being concise.
Zero marks for any actual content.

The FBI announcement reads like:

Hey guys, we know you folks are a bit busy, but we thought we would tell you we just found a cardboard box with the word Hillary written on the lid. Now we haven't opened, it, we don't know what's in it, we haven't done an assessment of what's in it, we don't know if anything in it is evidence of any impropriety or illegality, no, we just thought we would mention it 11 days out from a presidential election because we always think it's appropriate to tell the world what we are doing, even when we don't know anything yet.

Yeah, that is completely appropriate and normal.

B0jangles

https://twitter.com/AP/status/792076790676283392

Sooo.. about those emails...

alastair

cnocbui wrote: »

The FBI announcement reads like:

Hey guys, we know you folks are a bit busy, but we thought we would tell you we just found a cardboard box with the word Hillary written on the lid. Now we haven't opened, it, we don't know what's in it, we haven't done an assessment of what's in it, we don't know if anything in it is evidence of any impropriety or illegality, no, we just thought we would mention it 11 days out from a presidential election because we always think it's appropriate to tell the world what we are doing, even when we don't know anything yet.

Yeah, that is completely appropriate and normal.

They never mentioned Hillary at all. They're simply saying they've found some related evidence and it'll need to be included in their investigation. That's it. No suggestion of anything more. This reads far more like comprehensive transparency than political shenanigans.

KingBrian2

Wouldn't be surprised if after a Hillary election the news will break that their was illegal activity going on and it was covered up by the media. The usual politicians will claim they never knew and had they would not have called on their constituencies to vote Democrat.

BorneTobyWilde

She was already guilty of lying to FBI, that was proved and she should have been charged.
The law needs to apply to all. Obama lied to as he knew about her email and emailed her, and he would have had to have allowed her emails to get to through to his blackberry so that makes him as guilty, as he lied to everyone about it.

B0jangles

alastair wrote: »

They never mentioned Hillary at all. They're simply saying they've found some related evidence and it'll need to be included in their investigation. That's it. No suggestion of anything more. This reads far more like comprehensive transparency than political shenanigans.

The letter opens with a direct reference to the investigation into Hillary Clinto's emails, then moves on to talk about other, unspecified emails. Why mention her at all unless the intention was create the impression that her emails were under investigation again?

K-9

Mod:

Ok folks, breaking news and developments for the emails are fine on this thread.

Going over the same stuff about the detail of the previous investigations aren't, we spent a lot if time yesterday setting up a new thread specifically for that discussion.

cnocbui

alastair wrote: »

They never mentioned Hillary at all. They're simply saying they've found some related evidence and it'll need to be included in their investigation. That's it. No suggestion of anything more. This reads far more like comprehensive transparency than political shenanigans.

No, the announcement did not say anything about 'evidence'. They could be emails containing nothing more than shopping lists or those missing details about organising Chelsea's wedding.

It is not appropriate for the FBI to be virtually insinuating that they have found something significant and relating to serious wrongdoing unless they have.

This is action by the FBI intended to influence the outcome of a US presdiential election. It would only be appropriate to make such an announcement if they actually had evidence for something but they make very clear they don't know what they have. It's unconscionable.

Even a Republican is suspicious:

Another top Republican, Senator John Cornyn of Texas, appeared more befuddled than outraged by the timing of Comey’s letter. “Why is FBI doing this just 11 days before the election,” he asked in a tweet.

K-9

B0jangles wrote: »

The letter opens with a direct reference to the investigation into Hillary Clinto's emails, then moves on to talk about other, unspecified emails. Why mention her at all unless the intention was create the impression that her emails were under investigation again?

It could be something to do with the deleted emails.

RobertKK

Emails found during the Anthony Weiner probe, he is married to Huma Abedin the vice chairperson of the Hillary Clinton campaign, Weiner and Abedin are divorcing.
Maybe they show Hillary knew what she was doing and it was blatant.

glued

This election is just one farce after another. These two shouldn't be in public office at all. Yet you still have people supporting both candidates, staunchly, all over the world.

Hilary should be a complete non-runner for her foreign policy record and ambitions alone. The hypocrisy of the Obama administration and HRC to criticise Russia and other countries for their humanitarian breaches when they alone have been up to their knees in the blood of many innocent civilians in Iraq and Afghanistan in their so called 'war on terror'. They criticise the oppressive regimes in Syria while supporting one in Saudi Arabia and supporting them while they bomb the rebels and civilians in Yemen but yet they criticise Russia for doing the same in Syria. You really couldn't make it up.

RobertKK

Reuters reporting that the FBI seized devices from Huma Abedin and Anthony Weiner and it is emails on their devices that are the reason for the reopening of the investigation.

KingBrian2

At this stage it is the voters that must take the blame here. They allowed two wholly unacceptable candidates become nominated for the President. Trump even said the system was rigged from the get go. I am glad to see more Americans are participating in grassroots democracy. Translating all these voters into successes for centrists politics is the next step.

Christy42

RobertKK wrote: »

Emails found during the Anthony Weiner probe, he is married to Huma Abedin the vice chairperson of the Hillary Clinton campaign, Weiner and Abedin are divorcing.
Maybe they show Hillary knew what she was doing and it was blatant.

Maybe they show proof of alien life on earth? You are talking more out of hope than any evidence there.

This seems like it will be the other repeated shouts of email and wikileaks. Nothing serious there while Trump rumbles throughscandal after scandal.

Calina

RobertKK wrote: »

Emails found during the Anthony Weiner probe, he is married to Huma Abedin the vice chairperson of the Hillary Clinton campaign, Weiner and Abedin are divorcing.
Maybe they show Hillary knew what she was doing and it was blatant.

You sound desperately hopeful there.

RobertKK

Calina wrote: »

You sound desperately hopeful there.

Not hopeful, just an opinion, after all the FBI said it was pertinent to the email investigation.

RobertKK

Christy42 wrote: »

Maybe they show proof of alien life on earth? You are talking more out of hope than any evidence there.

This seems like it will be the other repeated shouts of email and wikileaks. Nothing serious there while Trump rumbles throughscandal after scandal.

Is the proof of aliens pertinent to the Clinton email investigation?

They are all up to their necks in scandal.

Itssoeasy

I'm failing to understand what the FBI could have found on devices owned by Huma Abedin and Anthony Weiner that would relate directly to Hillary Clinton. I mean it's apparently got nothing to do with her private server and use of it.

Christy42

RobertKK wrote: »

Is the proof of aliens pertinent to the Clinton email investigation?

They are all up to their necks in scandal.

The emails didn't come off the private server. At best it contains someone else thinking Hillary has broken the law with no absolute proof of it.

But sure keep only pointing things that maybe might nearly show that Hillary did something wrong before saying you hate Trump as well when it is pointed out how much worse Trump is.

Inquitus

It sounds like this is nothing at all, due to a separate investigation they have had to review some mails sent by Clinton, and as he has stood in front of congress on the issue he is legally bound to notify them of the same. This is certainly not a re-opening of the investigation and any mention of that is simply headline grabbing mis-reporting.

RobertKK

Christy42 wrote: »

The emails didn't come off the private server. At best it contains someone else thinking Hillary has broken the law with no absolute proof of it.

But sure keep only pointing things that maybe might nearly show that Hillary did something wrong before saying you hate Trump as well when it is pointed out how much worse Trump is.

You know you don't have to be so defensive of Hillary Clinton or anyone else in the election?

I don't think Trump is much worse, he hasn't his fingers in every major disaster in the middle east from Iraq to Libya, to Syria to Yemen, she has been one of the main causes of the migrant crisis, and has been an absolute failure as secretary of state.

BorneTobyWilde

Polls have tightened up a lot in last week, the same polls that Hillary supporters like to shout about. Most are within margin of error now or thereabouts

Sand

Itssoeasy wrote: »

I'm failing to understand what the FBI could have found on devices owned by Huma Abedin and Anthony Weiner that would relate directly to Hillary Clinton. I mean it's apparently got nothing to do with her private server and use of it.

Well, with Anthony Weiner you just don't know what could be found.

Carcharodon

RobertKK wrote: »

Christy42 wrote: »

The emails didn't come off the private server. At best it contains someone else thinking Hillary has broken the law with no absolute proof of it.

But sure keep only pointing things that maybe might nearly show that Hillary did something wrong before saying you hate Trump as well when it is pointed out how much worse Trump is.

You know you don't have to be so defensive of Hillary Clinton or anyone else in the election?

I don't think Trump is much worse, he hasn't his fingers in every major disaster in the middle east from Iraq to Libya, to Syria to Yemen, she has been one of the main causes of the migrant crisis, and has been an absolute failure as secretary of state.

So Hillary Clinton is the main cause of the migrant problem ???
Take a moment with yourself, maybe go to a room where no one can hear you and say that out loud, you may realize how ridiculous it sounds.

RobertKK

Carcharodon wrote: »

So Hillary Clinton is the main cause of the migrant problem ???
Take a moment with yourself, maybe go to a room where no one can hear you and say that out loud, you may realize how ridiculous it sounds.

Anyone who voted for Iraq war has some responsibility.
Anyone who campaigned for the removal of Gaddafi holds some responsibility.
Anyone who thought it was a good idea to support the removal of a secular dictator in Syria for a bunch of moderate to extremist rebels supported by Saudi Arabia and Qatar who also fund ISIS holds some responsibility for the migrant crisis.
Hillary Clinton has contributed to the migrant crisis and most deaths are from people fleeing the Libyan disaster and then drowning in the Mediterranean sea.
Look at the facts before you tell someone to look at themselves.

Timberrrrrrrr

RobertKK wrote: »

Anyone who voted for Iraq war has some responsibility.
Anyone who campaigned for the removal of Gaddafi holds some responsibility.
Anyone who thought it was a good idea to support the removal of a secular dictator in Syria for a bunch of moderate to extremist rebels supported by Saudi Arabia and Qatar who also fund ISIS holds some responsibility for the migrant crisis.
Hillary Clinton has contributed to the migrant crisis and most deaths are from people fleeing the Libyan disaster and then drowning in the Mediterranean sea.
Look at the facts before you tell someone to look at themselves.

What was Trump's stance on these?

marienbad

RobertKK wrote: »

Anyone who voted for Iraq war has some responsibility.
Anyone who campaigned for the removal of Gaddafi holds some responsibility.
Anyone who thought it was a good idea to support the removal of a secular dictator in Syria for a bunch of moderate to extremist rebels supported by Saudi Arabia and Qatar who also fund ISIS holds some responsibility for the migrant crisis.
Hillary Clinton has contributed to the migrant crisis and most deaths are from people fleeing the Libyan disaster and then drowning in the Mediterranean sea.
Looks at the facts before you tell someone to look at themselves.

By this standard virtually every politician in the western world bears some responsibility .

HRC would be fairly far down the list of people in the last 20/30 years who have caused mayhem in the Middle East .

That is not to exonerate her from some responsibility but some perspective is required .

RobertKK

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

What was Trump's stance on these?

What power did Trump have then, and who were his political advisers?

Overheal

RobertKK wrote: »

What power did Trump have then, and who were his political advisers?

He has political advisers now?

Gringo180

Killary should be behind bars for the rest of her days not running for the President of the United States.

KingBrian2

marienbad wrote: »

By this standard virtually every politician in the western world bears some responsibility .

HRC would be fairly far down the list of people in the last 20/30 years who have caused mayhem in the Middle East .

That is not to exonerate her from some responsibility but some perspective is required .

Her positions are the same as Bush when it comes to the region. Trump was voted by the GOP and he came out and said he was against the whole Iraq war policy. Since that time he has been accused of being a rabid Islamophobe. His views are fairly reflective of American public opinion though.

RobertKK

marienbad wrote: »

By this standard virtually every politician in the western world bears some responsibility .

HRC would be fairly far down the list of people in the last 20/30 years who have caused mayhem in the Middle East .

That is not to exonerate her from some responsibility but some perspective is required .

They do including our own Eamon Gilmore who was all for that FSA in Syria.
Cameron and Sarkozy and their governments most guilty in Europe, along with Blair for Iraq.

She pushed for the removal of Gaddafi, the country is now in a far worse mess, which is still home to many thousands of ISIS members.
She hasn't a clue along with many other western leaders what they are doing most of the time, and usually just produce a far bigger mess than the original problem.

Itssoeasy

Sand wrote: »

Well, with Anthony Weiner you just don't know what could be found.

Fair point actually.

Timberrrrrrrr

Gringo180 wrote: »

Killary should be behind bars for the rest of her days not running for the President of the United States.

For what?

corkonion

I don't think it matters one iota what theses emails contain, I believe the very fact that the fbi have announced that they are having another look at the emails is enough to give Donald trump the presidency

K-9

corkonion wrote: »

I don't think it matters one iota what theses emails contain, I believe the very fact that the fbi have announced that they are having another look at the emails is enough to give Donald trump the presidency

Assuming no other tape doesn't come out in the next week.

And that's a big assumption after this.

As for the polls, Trump always comes within 3 or 4 points and then goes back again.

RobertKK

Overheal wrote: »

He has political advisers now?

People who agree with him :P

btw Hillary Clinton was so confident about winning the presidency earlier today that it was leaked/rumour that Joe Biden will be her Secretary of State.
Maybe these things getting out, is a case of counting chickens when still in their eggshells.

marienbad

KingBrian2 wrote: »

Her positions are the same as Bush when it comes to the region. Trump was voted by the GOP and he came out and said he was against the whole Iraq war policy. Since that time he has been accused of being a rabid Islamophobe. His views are fairly reflective of American public opinion though.

She didn't have the same power as Bush , that is the difference.