2016 U.S. Presidential Race Megathread Mark 2.

Akrasia

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

I guess I was right
Polls were wrong, there was a huge secret Trump vote
That rallies reflected the turnout
That it would be a landslide
He would reach out to Hillary

Trump 'reached out' to the other republican nominees when he gave his victory speech after winning the primaries. A few days later he was back on form taunting them and calling them names and insulting them.

Trump is only able to act restrained when he's reading a speech that someone else wrote for him. (and even then, he sometimes goes off on wild tangents to attack someone)

BorneTobyWilde

Great that America is back in hands of the Americans with generations of family there, and not in hands of the millions of people who became US citizens in last 4 years. Hillary was relying on those new US citizens to tip the balance.

Akrasia

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Some over the top democrats still saying things like he will be in oval office get a tweet he doesn't like and press the nuclear button .

Yeah, that's ridiculous, but what is more worrying is that his terrible diplomacy skills and awful judgement might somehow cause Iran to get back onto the nuclear program, or he might provoke one side or the other in the India Pakistan dispute, or he might get into some kind of conflict with Putin or China...

Thomas_...

BoatMad wrote: »

Originally Posted by K-9 View Post
Any time Republicans or Trump go on about cutting costs, that means jobs.


Maybe Trump is when the penny finally drops, the light bulb moment.

Maybe people finally cop that that the last 40 years of wage stagnation ties in with the the obliteration of unions.

Trump is not a conservative or a Republican in the conventional sense of the term. He's much closer to FDR style politics then right wing tea party politics

I must have missed him talking about a "new deal" like FDR once did and more to the point, FDR wasn't a bully like Trump. Big difference between both characters and to compare FDR with Trump is rather an Insult towards FDR to me.

Thomas_...

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Some over the top democrats still saying things like he will be in oval office get a tweet he doesn't like and press the nuclear button .

I fear that those "over the top democrats" were not exaggerating it. We'll see how it will work when he gets chumming with Putin, his "friend" and if one likes to believe it, they both say that this "friendship" is "mutual". Well, I have no doubts that both of them have each one for themselves a very big ego.

esteve

I did not like either candidate and if I had been able to vote, I would have voted for neither. I oddly found myself agreeing with a small amount of Trump s beliefs, such as his dislike of trade deals that move jobs abroad, his desire to use dialogue with Russia to repair relations. However his stance on climate change is archaic and dangerous. He wishes to scrap the agreements made at the Paris climate summit and encourage more drilling for fossil fuels.

His climate change denial is akin to those in the past who refused to accept all scientific consensus that proved the earth was round and not the centre of the universe. This for me is one of his most dangerous faults, amongst others.

AbusesToilets

It's almost like they forgot which ethnic group makes up the majority of voters.

Blatter

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

I guess I was right
Polls were wrong, there was a huge secret Trump vote
That rallies reflected the turnout
That it would be a landslide
He would reach out to Hillary

I don't think a secret Trump vote was key to the election. The polls didn't get this wrong because of incorrectly predicting which side of the fence the different demographics were on - they got it wrong because they incorrectly predicted the voter turnout of the different demographics.

Trump got a sizable increase on the young uneducated male vote, a large part of the demographic that has traditionally had a low voter turnout.

He and his campaign saw this as his path to the presidency from the very beginning. He targeted that demographic and brought them into the political circle by simplifying his messages so they could understand everything he said whilst playing on their emotions with his tone.

He made them feel relevant and they turned out to vote in greater numbers as a result. The polls failed to capture this.

He lied of course, but unfortunately that isn't important anymore,

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

daithi7

Wooooaaa, I didn't see that coming, I have to admit.

Tbh I thought that Trump was dead in the water after the'Trump gate' video & audio, and the awful, aggressive performance in the second presidential debate.

But I was wrong, the polls were wrong, it's clear these right wing reactionaries in the US (&Uk via Brexit) are tapping into a disenfranchised, uneducated, angry majority who are obviously distrustful of authority and giving honest answers in polls.

Trump's victory to me shows that the old adage that any publicity is good publicity. If you had claimed a year ago that a multiple bankrupt like Trump, who doesn't pay any federal taxes, who got caught on camera boasting about willfully sexually assaulting women cos he's famous, and even his 3rd wife gets caught plagiarizing her speeches from the current 1st lady, would get into the White House against a well funded, hugely backed, ex 1st lady, ex foreign Secretary Clinton, you would have been labeled as certifiably mad!!

But Trump is a master media manipulator, with huge energy, independent wealth and is tapping into a huge, angry, disenfranchised regressive America and that is what won the day. Like it, or not, and I absolutely hate it, that's now the world we live in from this morning on!!

BoatMad

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

interesting , the polls just didnt see the swing states to the extent that they swung , they called most right but got the volume wrong, PA and Nevada not withstanding

Thomas_...

Akrasia wrote: »

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Some over the top democrats still saying things like he will be in oval office get a tweet he doesn't like and press the nuclear button .

Yeah, that's ridiculous, but what is more worrying is that his terrible diplomacy skills and awful judgement might somehow cause Iran to get back onto the nuclear program, or he might provoke one side or the other in the India Pakistan dispute, or he might get into some kind of conflict with Putin or China...

Both countries welcomed his election and Putin is the most happy in the first place. It might be some of "the big three" with USA, Russia and China dominating the world. That is why Russia and China are rather "happy" with a President Trump in the USA. But who knows, what sort of a "Doctor Strange" Trump will appear to be.

TheOven

Gael23 wrote: »

So many former US politicians will turn in their graves today

I would say it would be great for renewable energy but they just elected someone who goes against science.

esteve

esteve wrote: »

I did not like either candidate and if I had been able to vote, I would have voted for neither.

I'm not referring here to you individually, since I don't know you're politics, maybe you have an equally enormous problem with Clinton.

But I cannot understand the tribal mentality of most Republicans who couldn't vote for Trump, and yet did not vote for Hillary Clinton. George W Bush and his wife Laura Bush voted for 'None of the above'. That's crazy. It was only ever going to be one or the other, and you might as well choose the least bad. A protest vote effects no change in this case, there is no such thing as a minimum turnout, it's an utter abdication of responsibility to say nothing.

I also have a big problem with all of the milennials and other young people who, because of sheer laziness and ignorance, have royally put into jeopardy their own futures and, also put at risk the stability in international and economic affairs over the next four years.

Blatter wrote: »

I don't think a secret Trump vote was key to the election. The polls didn't get this wrong because of incorrectly predicting which side of the fence the different demographics were on - they got it wrong because they incorrectly predicted the voter turnout of the different demographics.

Trump got a sizable increase on the young uneducated male vote, a large part of the demographic that has traditionally had a low voter turnout.

That's correct, but I think it's a mixture of both shy Trump supporters, and wobbly predictions based on previous voter turnout.

I think it comforts the media to say 'oh people were so embarrassed to vote Trump, they couldn't even admit it. We saw the same phenomenon with Brexit, with journalists sitting around in studios, consoling themselves that this decision is 'embarrassing'.

That's partly the case, but in reality, these outcomes are also caused by those who typically aren't roused to vote, being very much roused by a message that speaks directly and personally to them.

Amerika

FiveThirtyEight anyone? :cool:

Billy86

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

This election, and the fall out from it when the trump fans become dissatisfied with their own elected president, could well be the rise of third additional parties. Both the Democrats and republicans are highly fractured right now and that is likely only going to get worse for each with the fallout of the loss for the dems and the fact the Republican electorate are so split on so many things and now for the first time in years actually have to make decisions and govern. Social media etc and its ability to reach a wide audience without needing to spend too much money or have connections could also play a very, very big role in this.

The next four years is going to be very interesting in that respect.

pumpkin4life

Billy86 wrote: »

This election, and the fall out from it when the trump fans become dissatisfied with their own elected president, could well be the rise of third additional parties. Both the Democrats and republicans are highly fractured right now and that is likely only going to get worse for each with the fallout of the loss for the dems and the fact the Republican electorate are so split on so many things and now for the first time in years actually have to make decisions and govern. Social media etc and its ability to reach a wide audience without needing to spend too much money or have connections could also play a very, very big role in this.

The next four years is going to be very interesting in that respect.

The charity I pick is the Irish Cancer Society: https://www.cancer.ie/

Cheers.

Bass Reeves

Blatter wrote: »

He lied of course, but unfortunately that isn't important anymore,

What politician is not a liar. This is the really big issue. Look internally in Ireland what politician is not lying to get elected. What has happend is that ordinary Joe Sixpack is fed up with the lies from politicians. They are fed up with the pandering to the liberal section of society. Politician's have left the door open for this and Trump has walked through it.

Will he be a disaster it is hard to know. The lower middle class and ordinary workers has been squeezed for the last 20 years. It is the same in Ireland look at the last referendum nearly 40% of the people voted against it. They were branded bigots and racists. No politician stood up for them these people are waiting for a Trump. When you look at Irish politics every new party try to enter the squeezed middle it is only a matter of time before we have a ultra conservative party.

Jawgap

BoatMad wrote: »

I have faith in the mechanism of the presidency and the government of the US. Trump has to act within a political system.

Regan had some gubernatorial experience , but was essentially untried. He grew into the office and was generally regarded as a good president

BoatMad wrote: »

Trump is not a conservative or a Republican in the conventional sense of the term. He's much closer to FDR style politics then right wing tea party politics

From an article in the New Yorker......

In the coming days, commentators will attempt to normalize this event. They will try to soothe their readers and viewers with thoughts about the “innate wisdom” and “essential decency” of the American people. They will downplay the virulence of the nationalism displayed, the cruel decision to elevate a man who rides in a gold-plated airliner but who has staked his claim with the populist rhetoric of blood and soil.

George Orwell, the most fearless of commentators, was right to point out that public opinion is no more innately wise than humans are innately kind. People can behave foolishly, recklessly, self-destructively in the aggregate just as they can individually. Sometimes all they require is a leader of cunning, a demagogue who reads the waves of resentment and rides them to a popular victory. “The point is that the relative freedom which we enjoy depends of public opinion,” Orwell wrote in his essay “Freedom of the Park.”

“The law is no protection. Governments make laws, but whether they are carried out, and how the police behave, depends on the general temper in the country. If large numbers of people are interested in freedom of speech, there will be freedom of speech, even if the law forbids it; if public opinion is sluggish, inconvenient minorities will be persecuted, even if laws exist to protect them.”

Liberals will be admonished as smug, disconnected from suffering, as if so many Democratic voters were unacquainted with poverty, struggle, and misfortune. There is no reason to believe this palaver. There is no reason to believe that Trump and his band of associates—Chris Christie, Rudolph Giuliani, Mike Pence, and, yes, Paul Ryan—are in any mood to govern as Republicans within the traditional boundaries of decency. Trump was not elected on a platform of decency, fairness, moderation, compromise, and the rule of law; he was elected, in the main, on a platform of resentment.

Bass Reeves

Bass Reeves wrote: »

It is the same in Ireland look at the last referendum nearly 40% of the people voted against it. They were branded bigots and racists. No politician stood up for them these people are waiting for a Trump.

Don't be daft. Anti-gay marriage is not a movement in its own right outside a referendum campaign.

Lets be honest here. The people who voted No are probably mainly rural pensioners who are easily fobbed off with free fivers in the annual Budget.

They don't have the energy or the will to get behind any sort of crackpot Trump wannabe that might spawn on these shores.

Irish society has plenty of problems to deal with. All advanced economies do. But we are a lot more cohesive than most of our neighbours. There is a tradition in Ireland of pragmatic, non-ideological, consensus-building politics.

This has sometimes been a weakness, but it does filter out the crazies.

BoatMad

Jawgap wrote: »

From an article in the New Yorker......

That article is just hysterical

Rightwing

Bye Hilary.

Not sure you are owed a debt of gratitude however, the first of many mistakes I'm expecting from the new clown.

Blatter

Bass Reeves wrote: »

What politician is not a liar. This is the really big issue. Look internally in Ireland what politician is not lying to get elected. What has happend is that ordinary Joe Sixpack is fed up with the lies from politicians. They are fed up with the pandering to the liberal section of society. Politician's have left the door open for this and Trump has walked through it.

Will he be a disaster it is hard to know. The lower middle class and ordinary workers has been squeezed for the last 20 years. It is the same in Ireland look at the last referendum nearly 40% of the people voted against it. They were branded bigots and racists. No politician stood up for them these people are waiting for a Trump. When you look at Irish politics every new party try to enter the squeezed middle it is only a matter of time before we have a ultra conservative party.

Yes all politicians have to essentially lie to get elected because if you speak with 100% honesty and integrity, much of what you say will be misinterpreted by the opposition (deliberately), media(deliberately and lack of understanding context) and a huge chunk of the electorate (lack of understanding of context). And you will not get elected. This means as a politician you have to account for this and rephrase your messages and compromising on certain policies in order to have a chance of getting elected.


To my mind, there is a BIG difference between the above, and what Donald Trump has done. Trump has out-rightly lied and blatantly manipulated much of the electorate.

To good politicians, lying is a necessary evil. To Trump, it WAS his strategy.

Christy42

Bass Reeves wrote: »

What politician is not a liar. This is the really big issue. Look internally in Ireland what politician is not lying to get elected. What has happend is that ordinary Joe Sixpack is fed up with the lies from politicians. They are fed up with the pandering to the liberal section of society. Politician's have left the door open for this and Trump has walked through it.

Will he be a disaster it is hard to know. The lower middle class and ordinary workers has been squeezed for the last 20 years. It is the same in Ireland look at the last referendum nearly 40% of the people voted against it. They were branded bigots and racists.

So they will take lies from a non politician instead?

Also if it votes for a racist and cheers for a racist...

People earlier called this the death of the pc police but all the pc police did was change who they protect. Suddenly you call some people deplorable and the pc police are right at your door to protect their special right wing snowflakes:p.

Thomas_...

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Blatter wrote: »

He lied of course, but unfortunately that isn't important anymore,

What politician is not a liar. This is the really big issue. Look internally in Ireland what politician is not lying to get elected. What has happend is that ordinary Joe Sixpack is fed up with the lies from politicians. They are fed up with the pandering to the liberal section of society. Politician's have left the door open for this and Trump has walked through it.

Will he be a disaster it is hard to know. The lower middle class and ordinary workers has been squeezed for the last 20 years. It is the same in Ireland look at the last referendum nearly 40% of the people voted against it. They were branded bigots and racists. No politician stood up for them these people are waiting for a Trump. When you look at Irish politics every new party try to enter the squeezed middle it is only a matter of time before we have a ultra conservative party.

I think that to put it in general terms, the line to draw between a ultra conservative and a far-right party is a very tiny one and this also because you used the term "ultra" which also points out to the extreme of the political varieties.

Thomas_...

BoatMad wrote: »

Jawgap wrote: »

From an article in the New Yorker......

That article is just hysterical

It is not cos its content goes straight to the point and Orwell was seldom wrong in what he wrote, just people didn't understand it that straight what he wrote even when it is that obvious and repeats itself in our time. One can project those citations to the social media of our time and it suits perfectly, given the mass hysteria and sh1tstorms people are unleashing there for things one would rather deem to be not even worthy a fiddlers fart.

In principal, nothing has changed, just the devices and abilities people use in the modern world and this modern Technology is faster than anything before. Otherwise we wouldn't sit in front of our computers and writing on boards like this which everone who has access to the internet can read.

Chips Lovell

Maybe it isn't so bad?

I know George Santayana said that "those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it", but you never know, maybe this time a retreat to populist, xenophobic, isolationism will solve a country's problems.

Thomas_...

Christy42 wrote: »

Bass Reeves wrote: »

What politician is not a liar. This is the really big issue. Look internally in Ireland what politician is not lying to get elected. What has happend is that ordinary Joe Sixpack is fed up with the lies from politicians. They are fed up with the pandering to the liberal section of society. Politician's have left the door open for this and Trump has walked through it.

Will he be a disaster it is hard to know. The lower middle class and ordinary workers has been squeezed for the last 20 years. It is the same in Ireland look at the last referendum nearly 40% of the people voted against it. They were branded bigots and racists.

So they will take lies from a non politician instead?

Also if it votes for a racist and cheers for a racist...

People earlier called this the death of the pc police but all the pc police did was change who they protect. Suddenly you call some people deplorable and the pc police are right at your door to protect their special right wing snowflakes:p.

That describes exactly the Orwellianism stated in the quote in Jawgap's post.

Billy86

pumpkin4life wrote: »

Billy86 wrote: »

This election, and the fall out from it when the trump fans become dissatisfied with their own elected president, could well be the rise of third additional parties. Both the Democrats and republicans are highly fractured right now and that is likely only going to get worse for each with the fallout of the loss for the dems and the fact the Republican electorate are so split on so many things and now for the first time in years actually have to make decisions and govern. Social media etc and its ability to reach a wide audience without needing to spend too much money or have connections could also play a very, very big role in this.

The next four years is going to be very interesting in that respect.

The charity I pick is the Irish Cancer Society: https://www.cancer.ie/

Cheers.

Will have in first thing Friday and will post on here. Hats off to you by the way for the only Trump fan on here willing to back up your convictions!

Good charity call also by the way.

BoatMad

BoatMad wrote: »

That article is just hysterical

I didn't find that article particularly hysterical, although a lot of people are working themselves up a little too much about it.

A family member who works in UCD told me that there were students crying and comforting one another. Americans I assume. That's a case of people losing the run of themselves.

I think everyone who didn't support Trump is worried about what his victory means. But it doesn't mean nuclear apocalypse or the end of civilisation.

It might mean a recession in the financial markets and in public morale, it might be regressive for American society and for international relations, and that's all bad, very bad. But in reality there are far worse, more brutal, more chaotic leaderships out there that don't have the same checks and balances as provided for under the US Constitution.

BoatMad

Originally Posted by Billy86 View Post
This election, and the fall out from it when the trump fans become dissatisfied with their own elected president, could well be the rise of third additional parties. Both the Democrats and republicans are highly fractured right now and that is likely only going to get worse for each with the fallout of the loss for the dems and the fact the Republican electorate are so split on so many things and now for the first time in years actually have to make decisions and govern. Social media etc and its ability to reach a wide audience without needing to spend too much money or have connections could also play a very, very big role in this.

The next four years is going to be very interesting in that respect.

indeed, Trump will be the first post-Brexit election where we will see if "not" solving problems for the voter base actually counts or not. The effects of Brexit will take much longer too play out

Thomas_...

Jep Gambardella wrote: »

Maybe it isn't so bad?

I know George Santayana said that "those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it", but you never know, maybe this time a retreat to populist, xenophobic, isolationism will solve a country's problems.

Remember the Brits and their Empire, once it was about to crumble in the wake of the emerging superpowers USA and USSR towards the end of WWII, the Brits lost their place as a world ruling power and there is no way to return. Once gone means gone for ever and the vacuum will be taken over by others who still have some appetite to take it. Not far to go to see those who have it, Putin and the Chinese.

The isolationism of the USA under Trump will be the equivalent to the downfall of the British Empire for the Americans are than on a footing for withdrawing from world (ruling) power status and such a thing will certainly affect the leadership of NATO as well. This is the very reason for why Putin likes Trump, cos he counts on some of the speeches of Trump in which he made some "hints".

BoatMad

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I didn't find that article particularly hysterical, although a lot of people are working themselves up a little too much about it.

A family member who works in UCD told me that there were students crying and comforting one another. Americans I assume. That's a case of people losing the run of themselves.

I think everyone who didn't support Trump is worried about what his victory means. But it doesn't mean nuclear apocalypse or the end of civilisation.

It might mean a recession in the financial markets and in public morale, it might be regressive for American society and for international relations, and that's all bad, very bad. But in reality there are far worse, more brutal, more chaotic leaderships out there that don't have the same checks and balances as provided for under the US Constitution.

But in reality there are far worse, more brutal, more chaotic leaderships out there that don't have the same checks and balances as provided for under the US Constitution.

That maybe the case , but none have anything like the power of the US to influence world affairs

I think everyone who didn't support Trump is worried about what his victory means. But it doesn't mean nuclear apocalypse or the end of civilisation.

I didn't support Trump, Im a fan of other republican candidates , But I dont think Trump is a demagogue or a fascist as some have claimed. I have my concerns thats he's more a FDR style democrat then a real republican

I think Trump sends an enormous shake up to both parties, The democrats believed they had a completely superior candidate to anything the GOP could field, equally the GOP ended up with a presidential candidate it in effect didnt want and didn't support.Both parties will have to do a lot of navel gazing

Note I am not an american , so my views are theoretical , but Im a long time fiscal conservative and reader of many ring wing political comment and I think whats happened in the USA is like Brexit , a dying kick from a group that is in effect fading from view.

equally one cannot discount the effect of a paralysed Federal government under a weak president that promised much and delivered little

jobbridge4life

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I didn't find that article particularly hysterical, although a lot of people are working themselves up a little too much about it.

A family member who works in UCD told me that there were students crying and comforting one another. Americans I assume. That's a case of people losing the run of themselves.

I think everyone who didn't support Trump is worried about what his victory means. But it doesn't mean nuclear apocalypse or the end of civilisation.

It might mean a recession in the financial markets and in public morale, it might be regressive for American society and for international relations, and that's all bad, very bad. But in reality there are far worse, more brutal, more chaotic leaderships out there that don't have the same checks and balances as provided for under the US Constitution.

What checks and balances? Republicans hold a majority in all branches of the government, legislative (both houses), executive and judicial.

walshb

Fair play to Trump. It was either him or a 70 year old granny leading the free world...

Thomas_...

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

BoatMad wrote: »

That article is just hysterical

I didn't find that article particularly hysterical, although a lot of people are working themselves up a little too much about it.

A family member who works in UCD told me that there were students crying and comforting one another. Americans I assume. That's a case of people losing the run of themselves.

I think everyone who didn't support Trump is worried about what his victory means. But it doesn't mean nuclear apocalypse or the end of civilisation.

It might mean a recession in the financial markets and in public morale, it might be regressive for American society and for international relations, and that's all bad, very bad. But in reality there are far worse, more brutal, more chaotic leaderships out there that don't have the same checks and balances as provided for under the US Constitution.

Well, with the majorities of his Party in both houses he certainly has "cart blanche" to do whatever he likes as long as his Party goes with him. When it comes to restrictions and cut backs in welfare and health insurance matters, I have no doubt that he will have an easy walk to get all that through he is aiming at.

Make no mistake, in his own view and attitude, America is for the rich as he himself is a rich one and those below the well off are going to suffer. That is for sure and with things getting worse for them, Trump will never "re-united" the American Society and rather make things worse, maybe much worse than what he have seen up to now, with more Cop killing, riots and social unrests taking place in the USA. The American Arms Lobby is very happy about Trump being elected President because he has no intention to put gun selling and using under more control. He has rather the potential to plunge the USA into a civil war where it will be the poor against the rich. Trump is no social man, he's a profits man and in this he always thought about profits for himself in the first place and so he will be forced to do for those who backed him, elected him lobbied for him. There's always a price to pay and favours to be returned and he knows that.

Wanderer78

walshb wrote:

Fair play to Trump. It was either him or a 70 year old granny leading the free world...

Nothing free about this world

Billy86

BoatMad wrote: »

indeed, Trump will be the first post-Brexit election where we will see if "not" solving problems for the voter base actually counts or not. The effects of Brexit will take much longer too play out

Indeed, makes you wonder if the best thing (long term) that could happen would be for it to be a completely disastrous presidency that fractures the GOP at every avenue - after all, they have the Senate, the House, the Oval Office AND the Supreme Court so there are no excuses on either Trump's end or the party establishment's whatsoever.

Likewise, would it be for the best (long term) for the Democrats to have a complete meltdown over this, re. the Sanders base, the establishment and possibly new elements? Had they not engineered a Clinton primary win so pathetically, we would likely be looking at President Bernie Sanders right now - the fallout over that is going to be a whole, whole lot more than it would have had Clinton won.

Because one thing I reckon most can agree on is that the two party system is a disaster. So long as things are going well it is never going to break down, so perhaps this could be a very opportune case of timing for all that are not the GOP/Dem establishments?

FA Hayek

Jawgap wrote: »

From an article in the New Yorker......

The New Yorker does not get it, so they will repeat the same mistakes down the track.

The fact that Clinton could not even bring herself to give a public concession speech last night speaks volumes about the Democratic candidate. She sends her campaign manager out instead to do her bidding.

She has gone into hiding. If Trump did this he would be castigated by the liberal smug media, by the usual crowd on Saturday night live and hollywood celebrities.

I saw someone post yesterday on FB before the counting started that Hillary got a few hundred newspaper endorsements and Tump got two. This was thought of as a good thing as she was a Hillary supporter, you the usual thumbs up, like, smily faces etc.. I immediately thought to myself that this would be gold to your average independent voter as they do not trust the media much as they do not trust the establishment. THIS is the reason why Trump won. If the New York Times write an op-ed against a politician and if some celebrity over the hill hollywood star starts doing impressions on a candidate on Saturday night live, it feeds into the mood and perception that the elites and establishment to not give two ****s about your quality of life.

Quick fact, do you know that white male life expectancy is actually shrinking in the US? Wont hear John Oliver make a skit of that on his show. Too busy calling you an idiot.

BoatMad

BoatMad wrote: »

That maybe the case , but none have anything like the power of the US to influence world affairs

True, but he can't do much damage without the approval of Congress, e.g. go to war or lower federal taxes.

I expect most of Trump's sins will be sins of omission: the deals he won't strike with international allies to secure the volatile conflict zones, the deals he won't strike on environmental protection, the progress that won't be made in healthcare and education, worsening class and racial divisions.

He'll also be a lot more willing to sign regressive legislation that Congress gives him, without the focus or mental acumen to analyse legislation like most other Presidents, almost all of whom have previously held public office.

I'm not dismissing Trump, I'm just saying we should keep cool heads about it. (I'm not accusing you of doing otherwise, I just picked up on your comment about hysteria, which happens to be rampant this morning)

equally one cannot discount the effect of a paralysed Federal government under a weak president that promised much and delivered little

I don't see Federal government being weak at all. I think Congress and the President will strike a lot of deals. I think a lot of republicans have much in common with Trump, Congress will just filter out a lot of the crazier stuff.

Paul Ryan won't be the GOP candidate in 2020, but I believe he will still be House Speaker, and that he will work with Trump as the 'unity' figure.

jobbridge4life

jobbridge4life wrote: »

What checks and balances? Republicans hold a majority in all branches of the government, legislative (both houses), executive and judicial.

Can you seriously not distinguish between Trump, who isn't even a real Republican, and the true, ideological Republicans?

They'll work together on areas of common interest, but there's no way Congress will allow a corporation tax of 15%, for example, and the maaassive deficit that would require.

Akrasia

walshb wrote: »

Fair play to Trump. It was either him or a 70 year old granny leading the free world...

Donald Trump is a 70 year old grandfather....

You've just said that Clinton's main disqualifying factor is that she was a woman.

I wonder how many other Trump supporters think this way.

Sofa Spud

Well, just got up having stayed with it until about 5 am. Had dozed on and off from about 2am and had decided to go to bed when at about 3, it began to sink in what could happen. I started to check bookie odds, as they are an obvious indicator of where it's going, and watched as it went from 9/7 to 4/11 to 1/6 and finally 1/21 at about 5, when I decided to go to bed with the hope that when I wake, it's all over and sanity reigns.

I called it a car crash election a few days ago and that's the image that seems appropriate now. I had a crash on the N11 a few year ago, where I came off the M11 at that hill near the Beehive, there was a tail back and the guy in front of me had stopped without putting on his hazard lights, so when I realised he had actually stopped, I slammed on the breaks and heard myself have the thought 'Jesus, that was close' - after I had smashed into his rear... I couldn't comprehend that it had happened, and I can't comprehend this has happened - but it has.

So much to think about and discuss, but it's just blather. It's happened.

All I can think about now is that it might, in the long run, be a good thing if it wakes up the establishment and media to the mess that the current system is, a system that made this possible - and that systemic change needs to happen. But I'm not confident that will happen. I'm not sure they still have the political discourse to enable measured discussion on how to 'fix' the system. I'm not confident that Trump will have any chance of achieving unity and that this result will simply solidify the divisions that exist.

But ultimately, we are in such new territory, that I don't think we can have any idea of what's going to happen. Only hope, hope that somehow this does not become a self-fulfilling nightmare and that positives can come out of this. Could TTIP be finally laid to rest? Will American foreign policy be less interventionist? Will there be a healthy improvement in US/Russian relations that creates stability?

Who knows....

Overheal

It looks like people have spent 8 years whining about wanting the keys back and now after obstructing for 8 years to demonstrate that the government is broken by breaking it they have the keys back and I guess we get to see how far off the cliff the bus will jump. Maybe it will fly. Who knows.

I'm just surprised half of his support comes from derangement.

Watching the Supreme Court will be interesting. His appointees will help insure even the most common sense gun laws are shot down; that Citizens United stands as gilded as Trump Tower; the voting rights act will remain gutted for a generation.

Don't even know what will happen to healthcare. The GOP has no plan in place to replace the current system and no stated goal to turn around the drug costs that are out of control. For that matter then GOP is a shattered mess of ideologies and I think the only thing that gets them all working together is the **** they all love: getting rid of Obamacare, banning abortions, defunding women's health clinics, and tax breaks for the rich because "it will work this time guys"

Ultimately we knew it might happen. Bernie warned them. Bernie supporters warned them. The DNC played antics and wanted Their Girl to run and it seems to have cost them everything.

Minorities are in for a most disgusting 4 years most of all. And I don't want to think about what happens internationally, but it sure won't be peace in our time.

Chips Lovell

Akrasia wrote: »

You've just said that Clinton's main disqualifying factor is that she was a woman..

Not a woman, a granny. Grandads are OK. Just not grannies.

Mr.Micro

Billy86 wrote: »

Well given the tight margins in the key states, it's beyond doubt if Trump wins, that Comey was the deciding factor in the election.

Dow Jones has already come down considerably more than on 9/11, per Tom Brokaw.

The Americans got who they wanted. Trump got what he wanted. He has a big job ahead of him and I am not so sure previous Republican hung ho politics, both domestic and foreign policy wise, will cut it. To my mind Trump is a loose cannon. He will see how constrained he is when he takes office, unless he surrounds himself with Neocons, then they will control him.

Clinton is hated and her phoney style. She is not even a real Demcrat.

We in Ireland could be in for a rough time with Brexit and our Corporation tax re US.

walshb

Akrasia wrote: »

Donald Trump is a 70 year old grandfather....
I wonder how many other Trump supporters think this way.

I'd says a fair few.

learn_more

walshb wrote: »

Fair play to Trump. It was either him or a 70 year old granny leading the free world...

That's without doubt the stupidest comment I've ever heard.

Overheal

This may or may not work out for terror:

"Oh I see you planning to bomb Boston there. You wanna go? You wanna try me? I might drone strike you and your posse or I might level Baghdad roll the ****ing dice who's the crazy one here son."