2016 U.S. Presidential Race Megathread Mark 2.

First Up

The troubling bit about this whole discussion is that I have yet to see anyone say anything positive about what Trump might actually achieve.

Most of the contributions here are about how awful Hillary is. Grand, but she is no longer part of the equation. Might it not be more important to start thinking about what is going to happen under Trump?

alastair

Count Dooku wrote: »

As I said majority of voters voted against Hillary. Fact that she slightly outperformed Trump doesn't change much

It certainly changes your erroneous claim that Trump outperformed Hillary. He didn't. More voters preferred the Hillary platform.

Count Dooku wrote: »

Thanks for providing perfect example how Hillary supporters are using "fake news sites"


http://defconwarningsystem.com/2016/11/08/defcon-warning-system-update-102016/


http://defconwarningsystem.com/2016/11/11/defcon-warning-system-update-111016/

Eh, yeah. Neither actually relate to an actual defcon level, and don't support the article you linked to. So - like I said - more fake news from you.

KingBrian2

InTheTrees wrote: »

Rubbish. Tell that to the relatives of the tens of thousands massacred by the regime. The assad family are bloody dictators who have ruled for 40 years under emergency powers after suspending the constitution.

You're obviously a fan of the Ba'ath party, so why not tell us why you think they're so great? Is it all the wars they've started against israel? The invasion and occupation of Lebanon?

If you knew the history of Syria you would know the US has interfered in internal Syrian politics for years. When the Syrians wanted to go into Jordan, Israel to back the Palestinian cause Hafez actually favoured more pragmatic approach. Syria has actually made accommodations when it comes to Western interest. President Assad was working to make a peace deal with the Israeli's during the early 00's and he successfully improved relations with Turkey which for years were uneasy. It was the US that was making unreasonable requests on President Assad. You want to know the biggest demand in Syria is. It is to start talking about the Golan Heights, territory lost to Israel with its illegal occupation of Arab lands. You want accuse Assad of war crimes you conveniently dismiss the larger role Israel played in stoking up Arab passions and making it extremely difficult for President Assad to sell peace to his countrymen.

RobertKK

alastair wrote: »

Hillary had direct connections with Saudi and Qatar on account of having to actually govern. Trump will now have ample direct dealings with them too (ignoring his existing business dealings with them).

Your assessment of Assad, the FSA, and the nature of the dictatorship there are 'interesting' to say the least. No-one supports the bulwarking of Assad, outside Russia (half heartedly) and Iran.

The Clinton foundation has nothing to do with governing the US.

Assad was wined and dined by the west when it suited. The fact is it was a bunch of terrorists who rose up and destroyed the country as happened in Libya.

alastair

RobertKK wrote: »

The Clinton foundation has nothing to do with governing the US.

And nor has the George W Bush Library, but the Saudis typically donate to US political leaders. It's only because of the Bush and Clinton role in US governance that the Saudis supported those charities. As I said - Trump manages to avoid this particular association, merely because he's not been involved in governing. He does of course have direct business-related connections, but I guess they don't really help make whatever case you're trying to fabricate.

RobertKK wrote: »

Assad was wined and dined by the west when it suited. The fact is it was a bunch of terrorists who rose up and destroyed the country as happened in Libya.

It's not actually a fact at all. If you're making the case that terrorist groups subsequently became involved in the war, on account of power vacuums, then sure, but you'll have to concede that there are terrorists supporting Assad too.

RobertKK

InTheTrees wrote: »

Rubbish. Tell that to the relatives of the tens of thousands massacred by the regime. The assad family are bloody dictators who have ruled for 40 years under emergency powers after suspending the constitution.

You're obviously a fan of the Ba'ath party, so why not tell us why you think they're so great? Is it all the wars they've started against israel? The invasion and occupation of Lebanon?

I look at Syria and think as if I was a local. As a Christian, Assad would be my safest option.
Lots of Christians had to flee for their lives after Iraq was 'liberated' from Saddam Hussein, due to violence, executions and extreme intimidation from mostly Sunni extremists.
Now look at Syria and the countries backing some of the people against Assad, you have Saudi Arabia and Qatar, who export extremist values of their death cult. Anyone who has to fight these people have my support as they are fighting the most extremist ideology on the planet, two nation accused of funding the most extreme terrorist groups and the Saudis of being behind 9/11.
Assad is small fry in comparison and the people of Syria are better off without that outside interference because the Saudis want regime change there and one should be wary of what they want.

InTheTrees

KingBrian2 wrote: »

If you knew the history of Syria...

If you'd even bothered to read the wiki on Syrian history you would know that the Ba'ath Party controlled by the Assad family took control of syria in the early 60's and have been run a bloody dictatorship under "emergency powers" ever since.

Protests and uprising ave happened through the years usually followed by bloody massacres. Tens of thousands have been put to death by the Assad's.

alastair

RobertKK wrote: »

I look at Syria and think as if I was a local. As a Christian, Assad would be my safest option.
Lots of Christians had to flee for their lives after Iraq was 'liberated' from Saddam Hussein, due to violence, executions and extreme intimidation from mostly Sunni extremists.
Now look at Syria and the countries backing some of the people against Assad, you have Saudi Arabia and Qatar, who export extremist values of their death cult. Anyone who has to fight these people have my support as they are fighting the most extremist ideology on the planet, two nation accused of funding the most extreme terrorist groups and the Saudis of being behind 9/11.
Assad is small fry in comparison and the people of Syria are better off without that outside interference because the Saudis want regime change there and one should be wary of what they want.

The Syrians themselves wanted regime change. No amount of 'death cult' propaganda gets to remove from that reality. It's not for you to tell them who they're better off with.

RobertKK

alastair wrote: »

The Syrians themselves wanted regime change. No amount of 'death cult' propaganda gets to remove from that reality. It's not for you to tell them who they're better off with.

So thousands protested out of a population of many millions.

A bit like the US elections except there was not elements backed by the Saudis in the US protests...

InTheTrees

RobertKK wrote: »

A bit like the US elections except there was not elements backed by the Saudis in the US protests...

yeah. A bit like the US elections if the US had suspended the constitution for 40 years, ruled under emergency powers, and started massacring civilians when they came out to protest.

alastair

RobertKK wrote: »

So thousands protested out of a population of many millions.

A bit like the US elections except there was not elements backed by the Saudis in the US protests...

Nope. A bit like the US elections except the state responded by torture and killings, multiplying the scale of protests many times over. This Saudi CT is at odds with the record of what actually happened there.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/apr/22/syria-protests-forces-shoot

RobertKK

alastair wrote: »

Nope. A bit like the US elections except the state responded by torture and killings, multiplying the scale of protests many times over. This Saudi CT is at odds with the record if what actually happened there.

You are totally ignoring history and most of all the politics in all of this.

Syria had tried to play a political game of staying onside with both Iran and Saudi Arabia - two nations who hate each other.
This all changed when the US invaded Iraq, but in 2006 when the war in southern Lebanon happened Assad accused King Abdullah of being a "half man" for doing nothing to support Lebanon against the Israelis in that war.
This happened when a proposed oil supply line was being proposed to go from Iran to Iraq and onto Syria, and the Saudi regime and the Assad regime ended up absolutely hating each other.

Syria is the country closest to Iran politically. Syria though has a majority Sunni Islam population and the Saudis want regime change in Syria to move the Syrian jigsaw piece from the Iranian sphere to the Saudi sphere of influence.
The protests in Syria were manufactured by the Saudi nation. The same nation that gave Syria ISIS who crucify Christians. Saudi Arabia being such a tolerant nation that it bans people entering Saudi Arabia to even have a crucifix on them or any religious item that is not of Islam.
I had an uncle who lived in Saudi Arabia for a period, he had to live in a compound along with Americana and others, he did talk about how very intolerant the country is when outside the compound.

Syrian natives complained about people fighting Assad in their country who were not from Syria years ago at this stage. Saudi clerics who support and practice the extreme Wahhabism form of Islam encouraged young Saudi men to go to Syria to fight Assad. The Saudi nation financed these people in their war against Assad.
This is no different to what the Saudi nation did when they financed the Mujaheddin against the Soviets in Afghanistan, who in the end came back to bite the west who also supported these terrorists, some of these people the west supported back then included Osama Bin Laden.
History is repeating itself in Syria.
The Saudis and the west supporting the opposition to Assad in this case who is backed by the Russians. The Saudis are accused of funding ISIS and other extremists who are fighting Assad.
The US and the west supporting the FSA who say they hate America...none of the actors in the Syrian war are nice. But like in Afghanistan...supporting the wrong people because the other person supporting the person you are against is Russia is bad policy.
Trying to placate the Saudis by playing along with them because of their oil and wealth is probably one of the worst foreign policies on the planet, what is worse is how the west sells them so much weaponry.

Assad is far from being a nice person, but the Syrian war is far more than a democracy play, it has been from the start a Saudi play for control in the Middle East, to remove Syria from Iran's influence.
This is why the Saudi nation has been linked with the rise and financing of ISIS and also funding the Al Qaeda backed al Nusra, and who also help the Free Syrian Army..

It should also be remembered that the Saudis and the Russians do not like each other.
Syria is a proxy war, and was never about democracy or simply about Syria.
It is where nations who hate each other are fighting one another and Assad is like F you to Saudi Arabia who have so far failed to achieve their objective.

So when Assad said he hopes Trump will work with his government to defeat ISIS, he is also indirectly saying to defeat the Saudi backed group in his country.
Assad has Russia fighting the other Saudi backed elements.

We can see how the democracy argument is a lie given how Libya was abandoned to terrorists once the Saudi hated Gaddafi was removed.

No wonder the Saudis were giving millions to the Clinton foundation....

Christy42

RobertKK wrote: »

You are totally ignoring history and most of all the politics in all of this.

Syria had tried to play a political game of staying onside with both Iran and Saudi Arabia - two nations who hate each other.
This all changed when the US invaded Iraq, but in 2006 when the war in southern Lebanon happened Assad accused King Abdullah of being a "half man" for doing nothing to support Lebanon against the Israelis in that war.
This happened when a proposed oil supply line was being proposed to go from Iran to Iraq and onto Syria, and the Saudi regime and the Assad regime ended up absolutely hating each other.

Syria is the country closest to Iran politically. Syria though has a majority Sunni Islam population and the Saudis want regime change in Syria to move the Syrian jigsaw piece from the Iranian sphere to the Saudi sphere of influence.
The protests in Syria were manufactured by the Saudi nation. The same nation that gave Syria ISIS who crucify Christians. Saudi Arabia being such a tolerant nation that it bans people entering Saudi Arabia to even have a crucifix on them or any religious item that is not of Islam.
I had an uncle who lived in Saudi Arabia for a period, he had to live in a compound along with Americana and others, he did talk about how very intolerant the country is when outside the compound.

Syrian natives complained about people fighting Assad in their country who were not from Syria years ago at this stage. Saudi clerics who support and practice the extreme Wahhabism form of Islam encouraged young Saudi men to go to Syria to fight Assad. The Saudi nation financed these people in their war against Assad.
This is no different to what the Saudi nation did when they financed the Mujaheddin against the Soviets in Afghanistan, who in the end came back to bite the west who also supported these terrorists, some of these people the west supported back then included Osama Bin Laden.
History is repeating itself in Syria.
The Saudis and the west supporting the opposition to Assad in this case who is backed by the Russians. The Saudis are accused of funding ISIS and other extremists who are fighting Assad.
The US and the west supporting the FSA who say they hate America...none of the actors in the Syrian war are nice. But like in Afghanistan...supporting the wrong people because the other person supporting the person you are against is Russia is bad policy.
Trying to placate the Saudis by playing along with them because of their oil and wealth is probably one of the worst foreign policies on the planet, what is worse is how the west sells them so much weaponry.

Assad is far from being a nice person, but the Syrian war is far more than a democracy play, it has been from the start a Saudi play for control in the Middle East, to remove Syria from Iran's influence.
This is why the Saudi nation has been linked with the rise and financing of ISIS and also funding the Al Qaeda backed al Nusra, and who also help the Free Syrian Army..

It should also be remembered that the Saudis and the Russians do not like each other.
Syria is a proxy war, and was never about democracy or simply about Syria.
It is where nations who hate each other are fighting one another and Assad is like F you to Saudi Arabia who have so far failed to achieve their objective.

So when Assad said he hopes Trump will work with his government to defeat ISIS, he is also indirectly saying to defeat the Saudi backed group in his country.
Assad has Russia fighting the other Saudi backed elements.

We can see how the democracy argument is a lie given how Libya was abandoned to terrorists once the Saudi hated Gaddafi was removed.

No wonder the Saudis were giving millions to the Clinton foundation....

I am curious why you keep mentioning Clinton's links with Saudi but not Donald's when you reportedly hate them both.

RobertKK

alastair wrote: »

And nor has the George W Bush Library, but the Saudis typically donate to US political leaders. It's only because of the Bush and Clinton role in US governance that the Saudis supported those charities. As I said - Trump manages to avoid this particular association, merely because he's not been involved in governing. He does of course have direct business-related connections, but I guess they don't really help make whatever case you're trying to fabricate.


It's not actually a fact at all. If you're making the case that terrorist groups subsequently became involved in the war, on account of power vacuums, then sure, but you'll have to concede that there are terrorists supporting Assad too.

The Clintons and the Bushes are friends, two peas in a pod. Hopefully we never see them again in areas of significant power.

RobertKK

Christy42 wrote: »

I am curious why you keep mentioning Clinton's links with Saudi but not Donald's when you reportedly hate them both.

You mean Alwaleed of Saudi Arabia who bought Trump's yacht when he was in financial trouble, or the hotel that was going bankrupt?

Trump said he never met Prince Alwaleed (who is linked to funding terrorism) and he has never met him or liked his style.
Alaweed tweeted that Trump is a disgrace to the GOP and to America, and said he should withdraw from the Presidential race as he would never win.

I don't think there is much love between them.

Trump also said Saudi Arabia were behind 9/11.

“Who blew up the World Trade Center? It wasn’t the Iraqis, it was Saudi — take a look at Saudi Arabia, open the documents,”

then on another occasion he said
“It wasn’t the Iraqis that knocked down the World Trade Center, it wasn’t the Iraqis. You will find out who really knocked down the World Trade Center, ‘cuz they have papers in there that are very secret. You may find it’s the Saudis, okay? But you will find out.”


So you can see how much love there is between Trump and the Saudis.

Brian?

RobertKK wrote: »

You mean Alwaleed of Saudi Arabia who bought Trump's yacht when he was in financial trouble, or the hotel that was going bankrupt?

Trump said he never met Prince Alwaleed (who is linked to funding terrorism) and he has never met him or liked his style.
Alaweed tweeted that Trump is a disgrace to the GOP and to America, and said he should withdraw from the Presidential race as he would never win.

I don't think there is much love between them.

Trump also said Saudi Arabia were behind 9/11.

“Who blew up the World Trade Center? It wasn’t the Iraqis, it was Saudi — take a look at Saudi Arabia, open the documents,”

then on another occasion he said
“It wasn’t the Iraqis that knocked down the World Trade Center, it wasn’t the Iraqis. You will find out who really knocked down the World Trade Center, ‘cuz they have papers in there that are very secret. You may find it’s the Saudis, okay? But you will find out.”


So you can see how much love there is between Trump and the Saudis.

You hate the Saudis so much you've performed the mental gymnastics required to support Assad. Assad is a heartless butcher.

RobertKK

Brian? wrote: »

You hate the Saudis so much you've performed the mental gymnastics required to support Assad. Assad is a heartless butcher.

For some people a sale of distressed assets that are undertaken by a creditors about 25 years ago is equivalent to the Clintons taking in money from Saudi Arabia in the past 5 or 6 years, after 9/11 when they had been under constant suspicion of being behind 9/11.

Assad is the devil that is known, maybe people prefer the Saudi supported devils who are even far far worse and far far more intolerant.

Count Dooku

Brian? wrote: »

Assad is a heartless butcher.

He is just trying to build a secular state in Middle East

Count Dooku

Skylinehead wrote: »

You do realise that the US military doesn't actually provide the current DEFCON level and that's just some random speculation site, right?

Say thanks to Hillary's warmongering rhetoric and and-Trump bias in US media with result that people would believe an independent NGO rather to what been called not so long time ago as "reputable US newspapers"

alastair

Count Dooku wrote: »

Say thanks to Hillary's warmongering rhetoric and and-Trump bias in US media with result that people would believe an independent NGO rather to what been called not so long time ago as "reputable US newspapers"

It's not an 'independent NGO'. It's a couple of hobbyist nerds with a blog. Nobody believes in this, except for gullible regurgitators of false news memes.

alastair

RobertKK wrote: »

You are totally ignoring history and most of all the politics in all of this.

Syria had tried to play a political game of staying onside with both Iran and Saudi Arabia - two nations who hate each other.
This all changed when the US invaded Iraq, but in 2006 when the war in southern Lebanon happened Assad accused King Abdullah of being a "half man" for doing nothing to support Lebanon against the Israelis in that war.
This happened when a proposed oil supply line was being proposed to go from Iran to Iraq and onto Syria, and the Saudi regime and the Assad regime ended up absolutely hating each other.

Syria is the country closest to Iran politically. Syria though has a majority Sunni Islam population and the Saudis want regime change in Syria to move the Syrian jigsaw piece from the Iranian sphere to the Saudi sphere of influence.
The protests in Syria were manufactured by the Saudi nation. The same nation that gave Syria ISIS who crucify Christians. Saudi Arabia being such a tolerant nation that it bans people entering Saudi Arabia to even have a crucifix on them or any religious item that is not of Islam.
I had an uncle who lived in Saudi Arabia for a period, he had to live in a compound along with Americana and others, he did talk about how very intolerant the country is when outside the compound.

Syrian natives complained about people fighting Assad in their country who were not from Syria years ago at this stage. Saudi clerics who support and practice the extreme Wahhabism form of Islam encouraged young Saudi men to go to Syria to fight Assad. The Saudi nation financed these people in their war against Assad.
This is no different to what the Saudi nation did when they financed the Mujaheddin against the Soviets in Afghanistan, who in the end came back to bite the west who also supported these terrorists, some of these people the west supported back then included Osama Bin Laden.
History is repeating itself in Syria.
The Saudis and the west supporting the opposition to Assad in this case who is backed by the Russians. The Saudis are accused of funding ISIS and other extremists who are fighting Assad.
The US and the west supporting the FSA who say they hate America...none of the actors in the Syrian war are nice. But like in Afghanistan...supporting the wrong people because the other person supporting the person you are against is Russia is bad policy.
Trying to placate the Saudis by playing along with them because of their oil and wealth is probably one of the worst foreign policies on the planet, what is worse is how the west sells them so much weaponry.

Assad is far from being a nice person, but the Syrian war is far more than a democracy play, it has been from the start a Saudi play for control in the Middle East, to remove Syria from Iran's influence.
This is why the Saudi nation has been linked with the rise and financing of ISIS and also funding the Al Qaeda backed al Nusra, and who also help the Free Syrian Army..

It should also be remembered that the Saudis and the Russians do not like each other.
Syria is a proxy war, and was never about democracy or simply about Syria.
It is where nations who hate each other are fighting one another and Assad is like F you to Saudi Arabia who have so far failed to achieve their objective.

So when Assad said he hopes Trump will work with his government to defeat ISIS, he is also indirectly saying to defeat the Saudi backed group in his country.
Assad has Russia fighting the other Saudi backed elements.

We can see how the democracy argument is a lie given how Libya was abandoned to terrorists once the Saudi hated Gaddafi was removed.

No wonder the Saudis were giving millions to the Clinton foundation....

As I already said - the reality is at odds with your Saudi CT.

Skylinehead

Count Dooku wrote: »

Say thanks to Hillary's warmongering rhetoric and and-Trump bias in US media with result that people would believe an independent NGO rather to what been called not so long time ago as "reputable US newspapers"

"independent NGO"

They're not UNICEF mate, they're likely guys in a basement somewhere. That's your response to fake news sites, that link to some nobodies?

InTheTrees

Skylinehead wrote: »

Count Dooku wrote: »

Say thanks to Hillary's warmongering rhetoric and and-Trump bias in US media with result that people would believe an independent NGO rather to what been called not so long time ago as "reputable US newspapers"

"independent NGO"

They're not UNICEF mate, they're likely guys in a basement somewhere. That's your response to fake news sites, that link to some nobodies?

Were all independent ngo's aren't we? Funny.

The crazy part is that people will continue to believe the fake news stories even when they're revealed to be fake.

RobertKK

alastair wrote: »

As I already said - the reality is at odds with your Saudi CT.

It is not a conspiracy theory.

It is common knowledge. If you don't the geopolitics of the Middle East, then it is just a huge conspiracy theory.


From the BBC, and also know the Clintons with their pay for play, also has Hillary with the same Syrian policy...

The Sunni-ruled Gulf kingdom says President Assad cannot be part of a solution to the conflict and must hand over power to a transitional administration or be removed by force.
Riyadh is a major provider of military and financial assistance to several rebel groups, including those with Islamist ideologies, and has called for a no-fly zone to be imposed to protect civilians from bombardment by Syrian government forces.
Saudi leaders were angered by the Obama administration's decision not to intervene militarily in Syria after a 2013 chemical attack blamed on Mr Assad's forces.
They later agreed to take part in the US-led coalition air campaign against IS, concerned by the group's advances and its popularity among a minority of Saudis.

Then the Iranian policy:

Regional Shia power Iran is believed to be spending billions of dollars a year to prop up President Assad and his Alawite-dominated government, providing military advisers and subsidised weapons, as well as lines of credit and oil transfers.
Mr Assad is Iran's closest Arab ally and Syria is the main transit point for Iranian weapons shipments to the Lebanese Shia Islamist movement, Hezbollah.
Iran is also believed to have been influential in Hezbollah's decision to send fighters to western Syria to assist pro-Assad forces.
Militiamen from Iran and Iraq who say they are protecting Shia holy sites are also fighting alongside Syrian troops.
Iran has proposed a peaceful transition in Syria that would culminate in free, multi-party elections. It was involved in peace talks over Syria's future for the first time when world powers met in Vienna.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-23849587

As I said it is a proxy war going on Syria.

aloyisious

With respect to the Mid-East as a region, proxy wars have been going on there for over a century now and the current, last and new Admins are just the latest inheritors of global politics. I doubt if many US voters gave the region much thought as being relevant when the HRC/DT grudge fight was going on.

Brian?

Count Dooku wrote: »

He is just trying to build a secular state in Middle East

He doesn't care if it's a secular or theocratic state as long as he rules it.

Brian?

RobertKK wrote: »

For some people a sale of distressed assets that are undertaken by a creditors about 25 years ago is equivalent to the Clintons taking in money from Saudi Arabia in the past 5 or 6 years, after 9/11 when they had been under constant suspicion of being behind 9/11.

Assad is the devil that is known, maybe people prefer the Saudi supported devils who are even far far worse and far far more intolerant.

The Saudis and Assad are both the devil we know.

Count Dooku

alastair wrote: »

It's not an 'independent NGO'. It's a couple of hobbyist nerds with a blog. Nobody believes in this, except for gullible regurgitators of false news memes.

I don't remember Hillary supporters panicking when they were increasing their "DEFCON levels" to 3

Skylinehead wrote: »

"independent NGO"

They're not UNICEF mate, they're likely guys in a basement somewhere. That's your response to fake news sites, that link to some nobodies?

Do you mean that only Soros funded news outlets can be trusted?

InTheTrees wrote: »

The crazy part is that people will continue to believe the fake news stories even when they're revealed to be fake.

As I said, say thanks to anti Trump bias which destroyed reputation of most MSMs

alastair

RobertKK wrote: »

It is not a conspiracy theory.

It is common knowledge. If you don't the geopolitics of the Middle East, then it is just a huge conspiracy theory.


From the BBC, and also know the Clintons with their pay for play, also has Hillary with the same Syrian policy...




Then the Iranian policy:


http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-23849587

As I said it is a proxy war going on Syria.

That's nothing to do with your Saudi CT (that they initiated and funded the Syrian uprising), and there is no evidence of any Clinton Foundation 'pay to play' activities - it's simply GOP bluster.

alastair

Count Dooku wrote: »

I don't remember Hillary supporters panicking when they were increasing their "DEFCON levels" to 3


Do you mean that only Soros funded news outlets can be trusted?


As I said, say thanks to anti Trump bias which destroyed reputation of most MSMs

I don't remember anyone paying a blind bit of notice to what this blog posted. I'm just amazed that you're so gullible as to pass on this sort of patently false guff with a straight face. Have you considered that maybe most people rate the ongoing credibility of the media a tad higher than your fake news kiddies in Moldova or wherever, and that you're the dupe in this scheme?

Count Dooku

alastair wrote: »

I don't remember anyone paying a blind bit of notice to what this blog posted. I'm just amazed that you're so gullible as to pass on this sort of patently false guff with a straight face. Have you considered that maybe most people rate the ongoing credibility of the media a tad higher than your fake news kiddies in Moldova or wherever, and that you're the dupe in this scheme?

Credibility of MSM after feeding people by fake stories, based on rigged polls, about imminent Hillary win is the best joke what I heard today
https://twitter.com/huffingtonpost/status/795663593689808896

Hank Scorpio

Count Dooku wrote: »

Credibility of MSM after feeding people by fake stories, based on rigged polls, about imminent Hillary win is the best joke what I heard today
https://twitter.com/huffingtonpost/status/795663593689808896

Wikileaks is fake and illegal to read according to CNN.

The MSM took a huge hit during the election process, and rightly so. I found it comical lately they were so upset that Trump didn't inform them he was going to dinner with his family.

aloyisious

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

Wikileaks is fake and illegal to read according to CNN.

The MSM took a huge hit during the election process, and rightly so. I found it comical lately they were so upset that Trump didn't inform them he was going to dinner with his family.

Wiki itself apparently a generic term according to this link and using it doesn't actually affix any status to a source using it. It's all in the eye of the beholder, same as with any media source used to argue a point.

https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=11&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwixyYKgk7jQAhVHK8AKHZjTC3gQFghOMAo&url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FWikipedia%3AWikiLeaks_is_not_part_of_Wikipedia&usg=AFQjCNGEKWQFc5WSDyF4VoSv2WD3HFNcQA

ECO_Mental

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

Wikileaks is fake and illegal to read according to CNN.

The MSM took a huge hit during the election process, and rightly so. I found it comical lately they were so upset that Trump didn't inform them he was going to dinner with his family.

What the Corrupt and Fraud Trump needs to realise is that he is no longer a private citizen anymore and can't treat the American public with the contempt he treated everybody with when he was running. He is now the POTUS and is there at the pleasure of the citizens of the USA to serve them NOT himself.

It's a worry that he is sounding out that he will not have the press Pool reporting on him or severely restrict them. What had he got to hide? Is he afraid that with 24hr coverage they will soon find out the extent of his bluffing!

KingBrian2

Brian? wrote: »

The Saudis and Assad are both the devil we know.

One important distinction. If your a women, atheist or disagree with the gvt your more likely to be executed in Saudi Arabia and not in Syria. In Syria voicing dissent was a lot more possible than Saudi Arabia in which the protestors were brutally crackdown on and we never hear the stories of the Arabs detained by the Saudi King.

RobertKK

Brian? wrote: »

The Saudis and Assad are both the devil we know.

..and one of the devils has given us 9/11 and funded international terrorism with attacks on transport, attacks in European cities. The people they fund also bombed a school in Syria.
The other devil is Assad.

But the lesser devil is whom the west wants removed...because they are scared of the bigger devil whom they want for oil and their wealth.

RobertKK

KingBrian2 wrote: »

One important distinction. If your a women, atheist or disagree with the gvt your more likely to be executed in Saudi Arabia and not in Syria. In Syria voicing dissent was a lot more possible than Saudi Arabia in which the protestors were brutally crackdown on and we never hear the stories of the Arabs detained by the Saudi King.

Not to mention the slavery in Gulf states.

"Earlier this year, I got in touch with a New Delhi-based agent, Muneer Ahmed, who took Rs 1 lakh from me to help me get a good job in the automobile sector in Saudi Arabia. The agents put me on a plane to Riyadh on a tourist visa, saying I would get a work visa after staying there for three months. I reached Riyadh on May 15 and found that I had been sold as a slave," he said, adding that all his documents were taken away from him.

According to Biswas, he was taken to a camel farm and consigned to slaving for his Saudi master or 'kafeel'. He was made to cut grass and feed camels. He didn't get paid and was only given a measly meal in the evening. "My master, Naief Bookme, abused me sexually," he added. Unable to bear the torture, Biswas tried to escape, but was caught. "On the night of July 16, I made my first attempt to flee. But I was caught by the kafeel's men. When I woke up, I found him trying to push a needle into my vein. I tried to resist but was beaten up — I have injuries all over my body," Jayanta said.

He finally managed to escape and sought help from the Indian Embassy in Riyadh and narrated his ordeal to Hifizul Rahman, second secretary (political information and culture) at the mission, which sent him to an NGO in the Saudi capital. Infuriated over the escape, Bookme lodged a police complaint accusing him of stealing 10,000 Riyals. Biswas was arrested on August 9.

"From the prison, he got in touch with us. We contacted the agents and paid them Rs 35,000 for my brother's release," Jayanta's sister Gouri said.

But his ordeal was not over. "I was taken to another farm owned by my agent's brother and was again forced to work as a labourer," Biswas said.

According to sources, his family finally contacted external affairs minister Sushma Swaraj, who secured his release.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/kolkata/Saudi-slavery-horror-ends-for-engg-graduate/articleshow/55464317.cms

It is surprising how many apologists there are for Saudi Arabia despite them being so incompatible with our way of life.

I remember Kathryn Thomas doing her holiday programs and on one of them she went to Syria and recommended it, surprisingly she never went to Saudi Arabia...

marienbad

RobertKK wrote: »

It is surprising how many apologists there are for Saudi Arabia despite them being so incompatible with our way of life.

I don't see any apologists for Saudi Arabia

alastair

Count Dooku wrote: »

Credibility of MSM after feeding people by fake stories, based on rigged polls, about imminent Hillary win is the best joke what I heard today
https://twitter.com/huffingtonpost/status/795663593689808896

Given that the joke's on you, for repeatedly buying into fake news memes, I wouldn't treat that as a convincing argument of anything. Look to your own credibility - it's wanting.

alastair

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

Wikileaks is fake and illegal to read according to CNN.

The MSM took a huge hit during the election process, and rightly so. I found it comical lately they were so upset that Trump didn't inform them he was going to dinner with his family.

The media took no hit whatsoever. Ratings are up, and advertising is up, on account of the interest in the campaign.

CNN said that the stolen Wikileaks material was illegal, which they are, but Imdon't recall any claim that they were fake. Source for this?

alastair

RobertKK wrote: »

..and one of the devils has given us 9/11 and funded international terrorism with attacks on transport, attacks in European cities. The people they fund also bombed a school in Syria.
The other devil is Assad.

No evidence that Saudi Arabia (as opposed to Saudi citizens) was responsible for 9/11, so repeating that claim really needs some sort of supporting links. Meanwhile there's ample evidence of the Assad regime (not some Syrian citizens mind, but the regime) sponsoring and initiating international terrorism over many years, including European attacks. Assad has bombed and gassed civilian targets repeatedly in Syria.

InTheTrees

RobertKK wrote: »

It is surprising how many apologists there are for Saudi Arabia despite them being so incompatible with our way of life.

I dont think i've ready any posts apologising for saudi arabia.

The Assad family in Syria have been massacring their own people for almost fifty years, that builds up resentment in the populace.

There's even a wiki on Syrian Massacres, in case you thought the Assad family were pleasant people:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massacres_in_Syria

BoatMad

InTheTrees wrote: »

I dont think i've ready any posts apologising for saudi arabia.

The Assad family in Syria have been massacring their own people for almost fifty years, that builds up resentment in the populace.

There's even a wiki on Syrian Massacres, in case you thought the Assad family were pleasant people:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massacres_in_Syria

the US attempted to destabilise Syria , because under assad, Syria is an old style Soviet client state ,

then they realised that Putin was right and about faced on the very "rebels" they were covertly supplying arms and bombed them instead

Assad is not only malevolent force in that area !!!

KingBrian2

InTheTrees wrote: »

I dont think i've ready any posts apologising for saudi arabia.

The Assad family in Syria have been massacring their own people for almost fifty years, that builds up resentment in the populace.

There's even a wiki on Syrian Massacres, in case you thought the Assad family were pleasant people:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massacres_in_Syria

You want reliable facts about Syria don't go to the sectarian organizations that promote Jihad. People on here promoting the Muslim Brotherhood which assassinated President Sadat.

26000 Elephants

alastair wrote: »

No evidence that Saudi Arabia (as opposed to Saudi citizens) was responsible for 9/11, so repeating that claim really needs some sort of supporting links. Meanwhile there's ample evidence of the Assad regime (not some Syrian citizens mind, but the regime) sponsoring and initiating international terrorism over many years, including European attacks. Assad has bombed and gassed civilian targets repeatedly in Syria.

Can you link me some of the European attacks you credit to Assad?

As for Saudi Arabia, they have been sending fundamentalist clerics to Pakistan for years, educating a whole generation of Afghan refugees. The ruling house of Saud is quite happy to let these nut jobs do their thing all over the middle east, as long as they are kept in power. A bit like Assad really. Except Assad is a secularist.

Its unfair to characterize a suspicion of Saudi motives ( at a state level) as being CT.

InTheTrees

BoatMad wrote: »

the US attempted to destabilise Syria , because under assad, Syria is an old style Soviet client state ,

Or was it the Israeli's? Syria has been an enemy since Israel was founded.

It doesnt excuse assad's wholesale murder of his own people for fifty years.

26000 Elephants

InTheTrees wrote: »

Or was it the Israeli's? Syria has been an enemy since Israel was founded.

It doesnt excuse assad's wholesale murder of his own people for fifty years.

Yeah, because wholesale murder by ISIS is so much more democratic.

InTheTrees

26000 Elephants wrote: »

Yeah, because wholesale murder by ISIS is so much more democratic.

You'd think these people would learn right?

Massacre your support base and you dont endear yourself to your people.

KingBrian2

InTheTrees wrote: »

You'd think these people would learn right?

Massacre your support base and you dont endear yourself to your people.

Just let the Saudi's poison the minds of their young and send them out into the world to launch attacks on Damascus, New York, Istanbul, Paris & Brussels.

InTheTrees

KingBrian2 wrote: »

Just let the Saudi's poison the minds of their young and send them out into the world to launch attacks on Damascus, New York, Istanbul, Paris & Brussels.

They're already doing that as we've experienced.